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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Is this just because this is my first time on Commodore difficulty, are machine empires just that OP
    Yes and yes.

    Machine empires' ability to colonise everywhere and build pops at max speed everywhere makes them exceptionally good in the current economy.

    However, you really want to fleet up much harder if you're only at 15k at 2330. Remember you want to be able to resist a Great Khan with at least convincing local superiority at this point, and they roll about 25-30k per fleet.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Got a question. In my current game there is a machine intelligence race a ways away from me who are just *ridiculously* powerful for a non-FE--they have something like 70k fleet strength at 2330 (for reference, I have about 15k right now). Is this just because this is my first time on Commodore difficulty, are machine empires just that OP, did they just luck out and get a nice empty part of the galaxy to expand in, or is it a bit of column A, bit of column B situation?
    If its murderbots that was an advanced AI start (with weaksauce / blocked in opponents) then it’s column A and column B

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Pretty sure authoritarians can have slaves by default? Via species rights?
    ...you mean like how I said slavery works in the post which you quoted? Yes.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    However, you really want to fleet up much harder if you're only at 15k at 2330. Remember you want to be able to resist a Great Khan with at least convincing local superiority at this point, and they roll about 25-30k per fleet.
    Great Khan already popped, but it turns out he's on the other side of said bots, so I don't think he's getting anywhere near my territory. I was delayed quite a bit in my fleet expansion due to the income issues I mentioned a bit upthread--couldn't afford to overexpand when I had a couple of captured planets running at -100 energy and food deficit already. I got smarter after that, in the next war I vassalised half the enemy empire so I didn't have the drag of all those undesirable pops and overbuilt planets holding me back. (I also gained quite a bit from reducing the excess maintenance drone jobs, because having +20 amenities on a planet doesn't really help much!).

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    So, have people seen the origins?

    Code:
    Prosperous Unification: Start with 4 additional Pops and 2 additional Districts. (Available to everyone)
    
    Mechanist: Start with 8 Pops being robots, and the ability to build more. (Utopia)
    
    Syncretic Evolution: Start the game with 12 Pops being of another species. (Utopia)
    
    Life-Seeded: Start on a Gaia World. (Apocalypse)
    
    Post-Apocalyptic: Start on a Tomb World. (Apocalypse)
    
    Remnants: Start on a Relic World. (Federations)
    
    Shattered Ring: Start on a Shattered Ring World. Your empire lives on the only intact section of the ancient megastructure, and it is possible to repair most of the other sections. (Federations)
    
    Void Dwellers: Start on a Habitat above your destroyed, former homeworld. Adept at living in habitats, and start with the technology to build new ones. (Federations)
    
    Scion: Start as the vassal of a Fallen Empire. (Federations)
    
    Galactic Doorstep: Start with a dormant Gateway in your home system. (Available to everyone)
    
    Tree of Life: Only for Hive Minds. Start with a powerful Tree of Life on your homeworld. Disastrous if you would somehow lose control of it. (Federations)
    
    On the Shoulder of Giants: Start with an Archaeological Site related to a mysterious benefactor. (Federations)
    
    Calamitous Birth: Lithoid Only. Start with a Massive Crater on your Homeworld. You are also able to build Meteorite Colony Ships, which colonize planets in a more dramatic fashion. (Lithoids)
    
    Resource Consolidation: Machines only. Start with a Machine World as your homeworld. (Synthetic Dawn)
    
    Common Ground: Start with as the leader of a Galactic Union federation, and with The Federation tradition unlocked. (Federations)
    
    Hegemon: Start with as the leader of a Hegemony federation, and with The Federation tradition unlocked. (Federations)
    
    Doomsday: Your homeworld is doomed and it will explode after 64 years, so you need to find a new home for your species. (Federations)
    
    Lost Colony: Another empire with the same species as you will exist somewhere in the galaxy. (Available to everyone)
    Calamitous Birth looks quite interesting to be honest ... and thematically interesting if you pair it with terravores or Fanatical Purifiers :D

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Lots of cool options.

    The Doomsday one sounds like a YouTube "let's play" waiting to happen!

    Also, I'm gonna have to put my lithoid game on hold so I can restart with meteor-based planet colonization. OMG.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    It would have been nice if they had provided details on what each actually does. The DDs of late have been...lacklustre. Scant on any useful details.

    Some of the choices seem far more powerful than others. Starting on a relic world or a broken ringworld for starters.

    Others look like they are more for RP than anything. Void dwellers for instance. It seems rather weak. I'm guessing it will be like life-seeded or post-apoc in that you can't colonise anywhere else and it'll be a long time before you have the alloys to build another one. Plus, unless they have changed the way they work, there is no way to grow food on habitats until you research hydroponics, and even that gives limited food.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    I have a problem with the Tree of Life origin. You have to have bought both Utopia to unlock hiveminds and federations to unlock it. If you remove one, you won't have the benefit of having the other. Come on Paradox, you did this with machine worlds and utopia before when you put in the unity tree before having to revert it, don't do this again. They have to make Tree of Life a Utopia Origin.
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    My problem with the Tree of Life origin is that it just doesn't sound very interesting. So, it's disastrous for me if I lose my homeworld. How is that different from any other game of Stellaris? Even 200 years in the odds are good that your homeworld is by far your largest and most productive planet, so losing it is far more crippling to your economy than losing some fringe world you only colonised 50 years ago.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Doomsday sounds interesting, but isn't 64 years, like, a really long time? Habitable planets are usually everywhere. You'll have all your pops off your homeworld in much less time than that if you really need to.
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Doomsday sounds interesting, but isn't 64 years, like, a really long time? Habitable planets are usually everywhere. You'll have all your pops off your homeworld in much less time than that if you really need to.
    You're not gonna lose the game right away, but as factotum said your homeworld's gonna be your most developed world for a long time in usual game. Losing it 64 years is a massive blow. I only see it interesting as a challenge run.
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    I have a problem with the Tree of Life origin. You have to have bought both Utopia to unlock hiveminds and federations to unlock it. If you remove one, you won't have the benefit of having the other. Come on Paradox, you did this with machine worlds and utopia before when you put in the unity tree before having to revert it, don't do this again. They have to make Tree of Life a Utopia Origin.
    According to the Dev Diary, it is.
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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    To be honest, I'm thinking the Relic World start will be a long term winner. Because relic worlds are good in the short term with normal districts giving you the good basic resource start, then you can flip it to a high-population ecumenopolis once you've got other planets or habs for basic resource extraction.

    Void Dwellers would have good synergy with Lithoids and Machine Empires, letting you use those really high efficiency mining districts all the way through.

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thufir View Post
    According to the Dev Diary, it is.
    They must have changed it. Last I looked it said "Federations".

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    To be honest, I'm thinking the Relic World start will be a long term winner. Because relic worlds are good in the short term with normal districts giving you the good basic resource start, then you can flip it to a high-population ecumenopolis once you've got other planets or habs for basic resource extraction.
    But why would you sacrifice all the special geological benefits to upgrade your world to an ecumenopolis?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    But why would you sacrifice all the special geological benefits to upgrade your world to an ecumenopolis?
    Because the special geological benefits are not actually as vital as all that. The special resource deposits are building-inefficient because each building only generates one job, so you can't take advantage of them and maximise the research bonus of the Relic world if you let them eat 6 building slots. So all you really lose from the upgrade is 8 free researcher jobs.

    An upgraded relic world also gives a research bonus, which stacks with the Ecumenopolis production bonus to give a +30% labs bonus (vs. 25% for relic world), and the foundry districts on them are the most effective way to get alloys and don't compete with stuffing the building slots with labs to take advantage of the bonus.

    Getting the free researcher jobs and early access to special resources from the capital and then transitioning out of that and getting an ecumenopolis later, without needing the ascension perk and starting with a really high population on it because it's your capital and has been growing since day one and you didn't have to scrap with an ether drake to get it, sounds like a great benefit.

  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Because the special geological benefits are not actually as vital as all that. The special resource deposits are building-inefficient because each building only generates one job, so you can't take advantage of them and maximise the research bonus of the Relic world if you let them eat 6 building slots. So all you really lose from the upgrade is 8 free researcher jobs.

    An upgraded relic world also gives a research bonus, which stacks with the Ecumenopolis production bonus to give a +30% labs bonus (vs. 25% for relic world), and the foundry districts on them are the most effective way to get alloys and don't compete with stuffing the building slots with labs to take advantage of the bonus.

    Getting the free researcher jobs and early access to special resources from the capital and then transitioning out of that and getting an ecumenopolis later, without needing the ascension perk and starting with a really high population on it because it's your capital and has been growing since day one and you didn't have to scrap with an ether drake to get it, sounds like a great benefit.
    Technically, you don't actually have to fight the Ether Drake to get the Rubricator-associated Relic world. If you colonize the planet before you finish the dig site, the Ether Drake will destroy your outpost and probably some mining stations, but leave the colony untouched. You can happily have that world churning out alloys and science for however long you like, and the colony even gets its own personal guard-dragon until you decide that the Rubricator itself is worth more than it.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Because the special geological benefits are not actually as vital as all that. The special resource deposits are building-inefficient because each building only generates one job, so you can't take advantage of them and maximise the research bonus of the Relic world if you let them eat 6 building slots. So all you really lose from the upgrade is 8 free researcher jobs.

    An upgraded relic world also gives a research bonus, which stacks with the Ecumenopolis production bonus to give a +30% labs bonus (vs. 25% for relic world), and the foundry districts on them are the most effective way to get alloys and don't compete with stuffing the building slots with labs to take advantage of the bonus.

    Getting the free researcher jobs and early access to special resources from the capital and then transitioning out of that and getting an ecumenopolis later, without needing the ascension perk and starting with a really high population on it because it's your capital and has been growing since day one and you didn't have to scrap with an ether drake to get it, sounds like a great benefit.
    I thought upgrading it got rid off all the science bonuses as well?
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  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    I thought upgrading it got rid off all the science bonuses as well?
    It replaces the +25% relic world science bonus with a +10% former relic world bonus, but Ecumenopolis has a global +20% bonus so overall you still get +30% bonus to labs.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    It replaces the +25% relic world science bonus with a +10% former relic world bonus, but Ecumenopolis has a global +20% bonus so overall you still get +30% bonus to labs.
    Oh. Did not realize that. Entirely misunderstood.

    In other news, my Rogue Servator Lithoid bio-trophie build is amazingly strong! I took the perk that improved resource output to all robot jobs (that costs 3 points) and it turns out, it gives all my bio-pops a +0.2% unity boost generation per pop! The unity output, as well as everything else is just jaw dropping incredibly powerful!
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    I... just had the MOST ANNOYING THING HAPPEN TO ME! Playing a game where I have established a 3 member federation. And then, suddenly, the secret keepers fallen empire declares war on one of my federation members, and pulls me and the other guy into the war because federation (I am only 120 years in and have been largely peaceful and everyone loving empire). Both the guy who incurred their wrath and I have borders connected to them, and they decide to invade MY SPACE! I was Fanatic Xenophile! I gave in to all their requests and they liked me, but when the other guy pissed them off, instead of attacking him, they throw all their military might at me! Seriously, only 2 of his systems were taken during this war while I was losing access to most of my resources and the planets long since colonized near their space. And, you know what's the best part about this, I want to surrender immediately! The hopeless war icon has appeared and is blinking saying "You want to surrender, you can't win!" Well, I want to, but you know what happens when I try? "Only main attackers and defenders can surrender a war."

    So here I am, being punished for this other guys actions and I can't tell them off! So I do the next best thing, I grab the federation fleet (Thankfully both the guy who pissed them off and the other empire federation contributed to most of this fleet) and I gun them straight at the Fallen Empire closest fleet. The moment that federation fleet gets vaporized in 5 seconds, the war is over and ends in defeat. And the good news is the fallen empire only wanted to humiliate the idiot, so all the territory and planets I had were reset back to my control. I incurred no penalties from the humiliation, as it was the idiot down south who was the target of the war. While I don't know for sure what the [email protected]*% that guy did, I suspect he may have put a claim on them, because he has no robots in his empire! I know because I checked, since I'm a mega corp with a corporate branch on each of his planets.

    But man, this was probably a good wake up call. I'm only now researching Battleships as I literally had nothing that was remotely threatening to me, but now I'm now going to be focusing on building up my fleets. Cushy time is over kids, time to sound the drums of war!
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  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    I... just had the MOST ANNOYING THING HAPPEN TO ME! Playing a game where I have established a 3 member federation. And then, suddenly, the secret keepers fallen empire declares war on one of my federation members, and pulls me and the other guy into the war because federation (I am only 120 years in and have been largely peaceful and everyone loving empire). Both the guy who incurred their wrath and I have borders connected to them, and they decide to invade MY SPACE! I was Fanatic Xenophile! I gave in to all their requests and they liked me, but when the other guy pissed them off, instead of attacking him, they throw all their military might at me! Seriously, only 2 of his systems were taken during this war while I was losing access to most of my resources and the planets long since colonized near their space. And, you know what's the best part about this, I want to surrender immediately! The hopeless war icon has appeared and is blinking saying "You want to surrender, you can't win!" Well, I want to, but you know what happens when I try? "Only main attackers and defenders can surrender a war."

    So here I am, being punished for this other guys actions and I can't tell them off! So I do the next best thing, I grab the federation fleet (Thankfully both the guy who pissed them off and the other empire federation contributed to most of this fleet) and I gun them straight at the Fallen Empire closest fleet. The moment that federation fleet gets vaporized in 5 seconds, the war is over and ends in defeat. And the good news is the fallen empire only wanted to humiliate the idiot, so all the territory and planets I had were reset back to my control. I incurred no penalties from the humiliation, as it was the idiot down south who was the target of the war. While I don't know for sure what the [email protected]*% that guy did, I suspect he may have put a claim on them, because he has no robots in his empire! I know because I checked, since I'm a mega corp with a corporate branch on each of his planets.

    But man, this was probably a good wake up call. I'm only now researching Battleships as I literally had nothing that was remotely threatening to me, but now I'm now going to be focusing on building up my fleets. Cushy time is over kids, time to sound the drums of war!
    This is why I never enter into federations willingly in Stellaris. You always get dragged into stupid wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    This is why I never enter into federations willingly in Stellaris. You always get dragged into stupid wars.
    Defensive pacts are even worse. You don't really gain anything other than trust with the other empire, you get pulled into any war when they get declared on, and if you decide you want to cancel the defensive pact because you're sick of fighting someone else's wars, the relationship malus that comes with that will likely turn your former comrade into a bitter enemy in pretty short order.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Yeah, even when I don't play as a Fanatic Exterminator my policy is to completely ignore the diplomatic part of the game. The next DLC is long overdue.
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Federations, man. Not even once.

    Hopefully the upcoming revamp will make them worthwhile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    Remember, Evil isn't "selfish". It's Evil. "Look out for number one" is a Neutral attitude. Evil looks out for number one while crushing number two.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    I ran into a similar issue with my federation. Every now and again, one of my members would get a bug up their butts and decide they wanted to declare war on someone. Then every single one of the other members would all vote 'yes' on this, leaving me to make the final call.

    And it really put me in an annoying spot. Because if I voted 'yes' I'd be dragged into a decades long war that I had no stakes in, and to make matters worse, I'd wind up doing 90% of the work of winning it. But if I voted 'no' then all that would happen is that I'd get a -50 opinion penalty to whoever wanted to start the war, and then a a short time later they would put it to a vote again. If I said no a second time, my penalty increased to -100 and then a short time later, they'd call for a vote again. They'd keep doing this until I finally said yes.

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    I thought they'd fixed that bug where the AI would keep asking for the same thing over and over again even if you voted no to it?

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    On the other hand in a Federation you can just drive your fleet around smashing everything and let your federation partners do the boring fiddly ground invasions.

    Even easier now because the AI doesn't plaster every planet with a dozen FTL inhibitors that have to be bombed into scrap before you can carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    On the other hand in a Federation you can just drive your fleet around smashing everything and let your federation partners do the boring fiddly ground invasions.

    Even easier now because the AI doesn't plaster every planet with a dozen FTL inhibitors that have to be bombed into scrap before you can carry on.
    Oh, but it's fun to have a planet crack before the guard!
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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    Yeah, federations blows, Defensive Pacts and Alliances too pretty much. I'm going to buy the new DLC when it comes out but I doubt I'll try federating more than a couple of times before realising I still hate how it works and return to my isolationist, authoritarian regimes

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    Default Re: Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

    I still want to see how the new federations work. Some of the new ones might be considerably more convenient. I especially hope they come with more diplomatic options. Like forcing people to join your federation through war. I once played an empire I called the Democracy Crusaders, Militaristic Egalitarian Democracy, who converted something like 3/4 of the galaxy to my ideology. None of them wanted to join my federation except one, and that one then voted against everyone else joining. It sucked. Also, non-democratic federations would be nice, where you don't have to vote on every decision but occasionally can force something?
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

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