Stellaris III: Shop at the Paradox Megacorp!

[Fyraltari]

I'm still playing my first playthrough whenever I can make the time.
Since I had good relations with both empires on my borders, I neglected my military to focus on balancing my economy, colonising more planets and waiting for the mega-engineering tech to drop* so I could make use of the ruined ringworld I acquired.
I also have an odd sort of civil war on one of my planets where a faction of transhumanists (transalienists?) is fighting another augmented faction, but they're both called meta-[my species' name] which is confusing, and I don't know what to do about that.

And then one of my "friends" (about two or three ranks above me on the scoreboard) declared war on the other one (about two or three ranks below me) and proceeded to whoop both of our butts (we have a defensive pact). They even started to invade my territory through the others'!

Anyway, I managed to hold them back through tanking my economy to churn out warships as fast and as powerful as possible and because the A.I. seemed unwilling to push its advantage and conquer the core of my empire. Finally a peace was signed leaving me with all my old territory back and my weaker ally having lost about a third-a half of their territory (but mostly on the opposite side of their empire rather than contiguous with the invaders' empire).

So now my plan is to stabilize my economy, solve the civil war, build back my fleet to a greater strength and take some sweet revenge on my former friends. Might change my empire's ethos to get an easier military too.

Also would starting a federation with my ally be a good idea at this point? They took a serious beating, so they're probably not going to say no, but I don't know what that entails exactly. Would it give me some control over their territory?

*I think I saw it as possible choice at one point but chose a cheaper more ummediately useful tech to research at the time. It's going to drop again, isn't it?

[GloatingSwine]

If you're going for a diplomacy game and are already in a defensive pact then a federation is generally going to be a good thing. They have bonuses and very few penalties. The only real downside is that your federation partners will want to declare war and pull you in, especially if you retain your strength vs. people they don't like.

If you can, try and get one of the special ones like a trade league, as they generally have better bonuses than generic federations. (Trade League, Research Co-operative, or Hegemony are the best, depending on your ethics, traditions, and civics)

[InvisibleBison]

If you're going for a diplomacy game and are already in a defensive pact then a federation is generally going to be a good thing. They have bonuses and very few penalties. The only real downside is that your federation partners will want to declare war and pull you in, especially if you retain your strength vs. people they don't like.

This is actually one other significant downside to being in a federation, which is that it gives a 15% penalty to all energy credit production. As far as I know, this isn't mentioned in the game anywhere except in the tooltip breaking down technician production, where it's lumped in with the "empire" modifiers.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Playing co-op with friends, I generally go with a science Federation, because one of the benefits you eventually unlock is increasing the chance of a rare tech popping up if one of your buddies already has it. This can help with rare but important techs like Mega Engineering if someone else gets it first. Otherwise, they're generally not worth the time and effort because the AI allies are going to be idiots and stir up drama.

[Fyraltari]

If you're going for a diplomacy game and are already in a defensive pact then a federation is generally going to be a good thing.

Well, I'm more going for a "figure out how this game works" game.

They have bonuses and very few penalties. The only real downside is that your federation partners will want to declare war and pull you in, especially if you retain your strength vs. people they don't like.

Since, that's what just happened... what are the upsides?

This is actually one other significant downside to being in a federation, which is that it gives a 15% penalty to all energy credit production. As far as I know, this isn't mentioned in the game anywhere except in the tooltip breaking down technician production, where it's lumped in with the "empire" modifiers.

Okay, that's a pretty significant downside. What kind of bonus do they offer?

Playing co-op with friends, I generally go with a science Federation, because one of the benefits you eventually unlock is increasing the chance of a rare tech popping up if one of your buddies already has it. This can help with rare but important techs like Mega Engineering if someone else gets it first. Otherwise, they're generally not worth the time and effort because the AI allies are going to be idiots and stir up drama.

I'm in a single-player game, I didn't even know there was a co-op mode.


About the Mega-Engineering, is it going to be available again? and is there something I can do to make it happen faster?

[The Glyphstone]

Once you've met the prerequisites for a technology, it is added to the pool of potential options you can be offered for your next research project. So if you get the option for Mega-Engineering and pick something else, it goes back into the deck of possible techs. You can increase the chances of a particular tech appearing that you want by either shrinking the size of the pool by researching other, non-repeatable tech, or increasing your 'draws' with more +1 Research Alternatives from various sources.

As far as Federations, the only one I've ever found useful was Hegemony, and then only if you're enough of a bully that you can lock down the Presidency. Then it's just free Naval Capacity.

[HalfTangible]

I hate federations so much.

It seems like it might be kind of useful in a multiplayer match but single player all it does is drag you into wars you can't win.

And it wouldn't even be THAT bad if you could direct your allies to send their 10k fleet to help out but *nooooooooooo* you gotta sit there one jump away and let all 6k of my fleets get annihilated by their 9k just jump in and help me and we can crush them

[The Glyphstone]

Heck, if your Federation is set at the default of Unanimous Votes required for everything, all it does is spam you with constant 'please declare war' requests and pointless petitions to change some law or another, effectively tanking your cohesion because someone ends up being opposed and preventing the Federation from ever leveling up.

[HalfTangible]

Heck, if your Federation is set at the default of Unanimous Votes required for everything, all it does is spam you with constant 'please declare war' requests and pointless petitions to change some law or another, effectively tanking your cohesion because someone ends up being opposed and preventing the Federation from ever leveling up.

Also the game doesn't tell you in these notifications what the law would actually do so you either have to open up the Federation window and try to figure it out from there or just guess.

[The Glyphstone]

And lets not forget the AI is schizophrenic and will constantly vote to change one law back and forth, like voting for enabling and disabling free migration every 10 years.

[HalfTangible]

And lets not forget the AI is schizophrenic and will constantly vote to change one law back and forth, like voting for enabling and disabling free migration every 10 years.

Do they? My runs never got far enough to experience that, because my allies will drag me into a war we could very easily win if they'd just deploy their fleets...

then they don't deploy their fleets while my entire star nation gets crushed, my economy goes into a downward spiral, and I just have to give up on the run >.>

[ShneekeyTheLost]

About the Mega-Engineering, is it going to be available again? and is there something I can do to make it happen faster?

Mmmkay, Research 101. We're going to be relying on a few concepts here, including tiering, a hidden tier unlocking mechanism, and a weighting system which determines how likely a given tech is actually going to have a chance of popping up assuming you meet all prerequisites.

First off, some techs will 'unlock' new branches of research which are dependent upon the base tech, irrespective of other conditions. For example, you need the first tier of researched ballistic weapons tech to unlock autocannon tech, you need the first researched tier of energy weapons research to unlock plasma weapons. That sort of thing. Consider this a hard dependency, or a prerequisite. You'll know if a tech is a prerequisite for other techs because it will have a little lock icon on it.

Second off is the tier system that the game loosely follows. Each tier is per research tree, so researching a whole bunch of Physics won't help your Engineering advance to the next tier. Basically, you need x number of researches before the next tier becomes available. There are six tiers of tech per tree to unlock.

Third is the weighting system. This will determine how likely a given tech is going to show up. The more common techs are more heavily weighted, while Mega-Engineering has one of the lowest weight values of any research. There are things to do to increase this, we'll go over that in a moment. But this gives your 'base chance' of a given tech showing up in your options to select. Obviously, having more options to pick from also increases the odds a given tech is going to pop.

It is important to know that when you research a tech, all of the other techs you didn't pick that time have their weight dramatically reduced (the wiki says to zero, but I don't believe that to be true because I have experienced a tech showing up twice in a row) for the immediately next research choice, then goes back to normal after that. This is to try and help you cycle through the possible research options when you have a long list of things you could possible research. However, it gets annoying when, say, you are offered two highly desirable techs as options at the same time, because the other one will need to go through at least one research cycle before it will likely be available again. In other words, if you picked something other than Mega-Engineering, then it almost certainly won't be available until after you've researched something *else* in the Engineering tree at least once.

Now, a lot of things can potentially affect the weight of a particular tech's likeliness to show up. In the case of Mega-Engineering, there's a few specific things that can make it more likely. Do keep in mind that when we're talking about multipliers, they're multiplying the base weight, which isn't much of a boost. For example, let's say the base 'odds' of getting Mega-Engineering to pop is something like a 1% chance, doubling that goes up to a 2% chance. It's still twice as good as you had before.... but still not particularly likely.

So, most of the more common techs tend to have a 'weight' value ranging between 50-90. Mega-Engineering has a weight of 5. So already, you're looking at something like ten to eighteen times less likely to show up. Even Rare techs tend to have a weight of 20-40ish. The only other tech with a Weight value of 5 is Juggernaut, assuming you have the appropriate ascension perk in the first place. So already, we're looking at pretty long odds. Fortunately, there's some things that can help.

If you have a megastructure somewhere in your claimed territory (say a ruined structure, you got the Cyberex for the Ring World system, or just picked Ringworld as your origin), you get a massively whopping 20x multiplier! This brings it from having the lowest weight to one of the highest. So if megastructures are your thing, do all you can to try and snag one in your claimed territory if possible.

If you have built a Habitat of any size and have colonized it, this gives you a 2x multiplier for Mega-Engineering.

As a Rare Tech, the ascension perk Technological Ascendancy applies its 1.5x multiplier to Mega-Engineering.

For every Starhold and for every Citadel you have built, you get an additive 1.5x multiplier bonus, to a maximum of 9x for having six of them built, each. This could mean a potential 18x assuming you had six of each.

Technically, if any neighbor already has the tech, you get an additional 1.5x multiplier, but let's be honest... if your neighbors have that kind of tech, you're already probably screwed unless they happen to be a buddy playing with you.

There's also a 2x multiplier from the Science Federation's tier 3 passive bonus if anyone else in your federation already has it.

Maybe this is too much information, but I figured this stuff would be generally very useful to a starting player anyway, so... here ya go.

Also, you can play Multiplayer. You can either team up with your buddies, or fight against them, depending on your play style. I tend to do co-op style, where all my buddies form up into a Federation together, but I've seen games where the players just treat each other as a more capable opponent. Not my jam, personally, but for those who enjoy that playstyle, it seems to work rather well.

[tonberrian]

In addition to this... more tech options means more likely to pick up Mega Engineering, and also the more techs you research the lower the pool becomes - eventually you'll limit the pool to just mega engineering and repeatables, and repeatables have horrible weights especially if you just researched one. And finally, if you do have the Cybrex station, I believe the Secrets of the Cybrex project automatically unlocks Mega Engineering as a permanent option until you finish it.

[The Glyphstone]

That's actually really useful, Shneeky. I knew about weights but I had no idea that Starbase upgrades and Habitats improved the odds, only the Tech Ascendancy and having a ruined mega in your territory.

[Fyraltari]

Mmmkay, Research 101. We're going to be relying on a few concepts here, including tiering, a hidden tier unlocking mechanism, and a weighting system which determines how likely a given tech is actually going to have a chance of popping up assuming you meet all prerequisites.

First off, some techs will 'unlock' new branches of research which are dependent upon the base tech, irrespective of other conditions. For example, you need the first tier of researched ballistic weapons tech to unlock autocannon tech, you need the first researched tier of energy weapons research to unlock plasma weapons. That sort of thing. Consider this a hard dependency, or a prerequisite. You'll know if a tech is a prerequisite for other techs because it will have a little lock icon on it.

Second off is the tier system that the game loosely follows. Each tier is per research tree, so researching a whole bunch of Physics won't help your Engineering advance to the next tier. Basically, you need x number of researches before the next tier becomes available. There are six tiers of tech per tree to unlock.

I'm guessing Mega-Engineering is at the highest tier, yes? Then I suppose the issue is that I haven't reached that tier yet and I am mistaken about having seen ME fly by.

If you have a megastructure somewhere in your claimed territory (say a ruined structure, you got the Cyberex for the Ring World system, or just picked Ringworld as your origin), you get a massively whopping 20x multiplier! This brings it from having the lowest weight to one of the highest. So if megastructures are your thing, do all you can to try and snag one in your claimed territory if possible.

I've got the Cybrex ring in my territory! That's entire reason I'm trying to get ME. But ,I've completed like ten engineering researches since I've claimed that system.

If you have built a Habitat of any size and have colonized it, this gives you a 2x multiplier for Mega-Engineering.

I don't know how to make those

For every Starhold and for every Citadel you have built, you get an additive 1.5x multiplier bonus, to a maximum of 9x for having six of them built, each. This could mean a potential 18x assuming you had six of each.

These are space station upgrades, aren't they (I'm playing in French)? I've barely upgraded mine.

Maybe this is too much information, but I figured this stuff would be generally very useful to a starting player anyway, so... here ya go.

Thanks for the information. This game really throws a lot at you. So far I'm just trying to do whatever sounds cool, see what happens and figure sruff out as I go along. Took me way too long to realize the influence cost of claiming a star system varies on the star system.

Also, you can play Multiplayer. You can either team up with your buddies, or fight against them, depending on your play style. I tend to do co-op style, where all my buddies form up into a Federation together, but I've seen games where the players just treat each other as a more capable opponent. Not my jam, personally, but for those who enjoy that playstyle, it seems to work rather well.

Are multiplayer runs way shorter or do you have like 8-hour long game sessions woth your friends?

[The Glyphstone]

Mega-Engineering is one of the last end-game techs before the endless repeatables, yes. It requires a Tier 4 Physics tech (Zero Point Power), two specific Tier 4 Engineering Techs (Battleships and Citadels), plus any of, I think, 4 other Tier 4 Engineering techs before it even becomes a potential option.

A Starhold is the Level 2 Starbase (Two steps up from the no-upgrades Outpost), and a Citadel is Level 4.

Claiming star systems does vary in influence, based on the # of jumps from your closest border. If you claim something 2 jumps away, you essentially 'pay' double, so it's always more efficient to claim them both in sequence unless you really, really need to snipe that particular system quickly.

As far as the Cybrex - like Shneeky mentioned, if you've finished the chain you should see an Artifact Action in your Relics tab called 'Secrets of the Cybrex' that costs 50 Minor Artifacts. Spending them will give you a special project that instantly unlocks Mega-Engineering even if you haven't met the prerequisites.

[Fyraltari]

As far as the Cybrex - like Shneeky mentioned, if you've finished the chain you should see an Artifact Action in your Relics tab called 'Secrets of the Cybrex' that costs 50 Minor Artifacts.

How do you get those?

[Eldan]

How do you get those?

Mostly with archaeology.

[The Glyphstone]

How do you get those?

Mostly with archaeology.

Yes. Very rarely, I think the trading caravan will offer a few, but you get them by having scientists dig up Archaeology sites.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm guessing Mega-Engineering is at the highest tier, yes? Then I suppose the issue is that I haven't reached that tier yet and I am mistaken about having seen ME fly by.

It is at the highest tier, yes. It requires several techs from a couple of different tech trees. It requires Zero-Point Power (highest tier engine tech) in the Physics tree, plus Battleship tech and Citadel tech (the highest tier space station) as prerequisites. If you haven't gotten these, then you probably didn't see Mega Engineering pop up.

I've got the Cybrex ring in my territory! That's entire reason I'm trying to get ME. But ,I've completed like ten engineering researches since I've claimed that system.

That's good! Now you just need to get the prerequisites and you're probably going to find it popping up in relatively short order!

I don't know how to make those

There's a tech research 'Habitat' which lets you construct an artificial habitation station for something like 5,000 Alloys. It generally isn't that amazing because they're extremely limited in size, and with the latest overhaul for how Empire Sprawl works, they're even less attractive than they used to be.

These are space station upgrades, aren't they (I'm playing in French)? I've barely upgraded mine.

Yes, They are the second-highest upgrade and the highest upgrade respectively.

Thanks for the information. This game really throws a lot at you. So far I'm just trying to do whatever sounds cool, see what happens and figure sruff out as I go along. Took me way too long to realize the influence cost of claiming a star system varies on the star system.

Not a problem! I'm glad it has been of use to you.

Are multiplayer runs way shorter or do you have like 8-hour long game sessions woth your friends?

When my friends and I play, it tends to be 4ish hour sessions, once or twice a week, and a game will last several sessions. One of the players, the designated 'host' will save the game, then when we play a new game, he hosts the game and everyone joins back up.

[Silverraptor]

This is why I do hegenomy federations now. I can set the rules and terms and everyone in the federation is forced to go along with what I say. But with these new vassal changes coming up, I don't see the need to ever do hegenomies again either.

[GloatingSwine]

This is actually one other significant downside to being in a federation, which is that it gives a 15% penalty to all energy credit production. As far as I know, this isn't mentioned in the game anywhere except in the tooltip breaking down technician production, where it's lumped in with the "empire" modifiers.

It affects energy production from jobs and space constructions, but not from trade value. So as long as you have a reasonable trade value you can fill your energy needs happily despite federation contribution.

And lets not forget the AI is schizophrenic and will constantly vote to change one law back and forth, like voting for enabling and disabling free migration every 10 years.

It's pretty much only xenophobes who will do this, the answer being to not invite xenophobes to your federation because why are you in a federation with people whose defining trait is hating aliens?

Any of the "special" federations are better than the generic one though, Trade Leagues and Hegemonies are particular winners.

This is why I do hegenomy federations now. I can set the rules and terms and everyone in the federation is forced to go along with what I say. But with these new vassal changes coming up, I don't see the need to ever do hegenomies again either.

Because your vassals will be part of your hegemony and you'll get all the hegemon bonuses *as well* as the vassal bonuses.

[Fyraltari]

So I had just had time to get my economy back to growing again, stabilize my empire and build up my fleet to prepare for a second war with the empire that had just handed ly ass tonme when the empire I'm in a defensive pact with dragged me into a war with the same guy. Again. I'm more ready to fight this time, but not ready enough to actually win. Bugger.

---

As far as the Cybrex - like Shneeky mentioned, if you've finished the chain you should see an Artifact Action in your Relics tab called 'Secrets of the Cybrex' that costs 50 Minor Artifacts. Spending them will give you a special project that instantly unlocks Mega-Engineering even if you haven't met the prerequisites.

My Relics tab is just completely empty.

Mostly with archaeology.

Yes. Very rarely, I think the trading caravan will offer a few, but you get them by having scientists dig up Archaeology sites.

I have finished one or two archaeological digs, but I don't have any of those.

But! I did get "Citadel" as an engineering research, so I'm just going to keep doing research until I get it, I suppose. Is there anyway to tell to which tier each research belongs to? There's a color code, but I can't make head or tail of it.

[InvisibleBison]

But! I did get "Citadel" as an engineering research, so I'm just going to keep doing research until I get it, I suppose. Is there anyway to tell to which tier each research belongs to? There's a color code, but I can't make head or tail of it.

The only reliable way to know what tier a tech is is to look it up on the wiki. The game doesn't provide any sort of indicator. You can guess based on the cost, but techs of a given tier can have varied costs, so that's not guaranteed to be accurate.

[The Glyphstone]

https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-...index.html#top

Here's a visual guide to the tech tree, as of 3.2.2.

And if you have no Minor Artifacts, you probably dont have the Ancient Relics DLC.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

But! I did get "Citadel" as an engineering research, so I'm just going to keep doing research until I get it, I suppose. Is there anyway to tell to which tier each research belongs to? There's a color code, but I can't make head or tail of it.

No, the only visual is that 'rare' techs (of any tier) are purple colored. This indicates that these tend to be lower weighted for showing up, but there are rare techs at most tiers and others that unlock ancillary to the tech progression. As a general rule of thumb, if you have a tech that is a direct upgrade (not just a side-grade like autocanon or plasma) to one you already possess, you can be reasonably confident you've hit a new tier of research.

Also, Ciditel is the highest-tier research, so congratulations! With that, all you need is the highest tier energy reactor research from the Physics tree, and you'll start having a chance to see Mega-Engineering!

Also, you said there are no relics? Odd, you should've gotten one when your scientist researched the Special Project in Cyberex. It's activated effect spends something like 10,000 minerals to grant 5,000 alloys instantly or something like that. Alloy printer go brrrrr. Pairs well with the mega-structure shipyard.

Of course, the best way to do alloys is to go with a Collective AI race, because you don't have to worry about manufacturing goods, so all your production goes to alloy production. Hitting 1k-2k alloys a month is no big deal by the time Mega-Engineering rolls around. Of course, downside is it constrains a lot of your other options, prevents you from building eucomonopolii, and has been repeatedly hit with a nerf bat over the past few DLC updates, most especially the one that changes how policies work.

[Fyraltari]

The only reliable way to know what tier a tech is is to look it up on the wiki. The game doesn't provide any sort of indicator. You can guess based on the cost, but techs of a given tier can have varied costs, so that's not guaranteed to be accurate.

Oh, okay. That's too bad.

https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-...index.html#top


Here's a visual guide to the tech tree, as of 3.2.2.

Thanks!

And if you have no Minor Artifacts, you probably dont have the Ancient Relics DLC.

Yeah, I only bought the base game. And it's already pretty complex, I'll see about buying DLCs when I'm on my third playthrough or something.

No, the only visual is that 'rare' techs (of any tier) are purple colored. This indicates that these tend to be lower weighted for showing up, but there are rare techs at most tiers and others that unlock ancillary to the tech progression. As a general rule of thumb, if you have a tech that is a direct upgrade (not just a side-grade like autocanon or plasma) to one you already possess, you can be reasonably confident you've hit a new tier of research.

Thanks!

Also, Ciditel is the highest-tier research, so congratulations! With that, all you need is the highest tier energy reactor research from the Physics tree, and you'll start having a chance to see Mega-Engineering!

I already have point zero energy. But Citadel still needs 87 months of researching.


So far I have only upgraded space stations to get some naval works to build more ships (I only have a capacity of ten) but maybe making a citadel will be worth the extra maintenance cost.

I haven't got habitat yet either.

Also, you said there are no relics? Odd, you should've gotten one when your scientist researched the Special Project in Cyberex. It's activated effect spends something like 10,000 minerals to grant 5,000 alloys instantly or something like that. Alloy printer go brrrrr. Pairs well with the mega-structure shipyard.

I followed the Cyberex questline to the end. Now I have four "ruined ring sections" each coming with an option to be repaired for 10000 alloys and 3600 days, on the condition I have ME.

Maybe that project is part of the DLC? Anyway, I produce 238 alloy units a turn, I'm confortable (my guys aren't called the Sarim'kar United Enginarchy for nothing, industry goes brrrrr).

[DataNinja]

Maybe that project is part of the DLC? Anyway, I produce 238 alloy units a turn, I'm confortable (my guys aren't called the Sarim'kar United Enginarchy for nothing, industry goes brrrrr).

Yeah, the precursor relic stuff is locked behind the DLC, I'm afraid.

[Silverraptor]

https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-...index.html#top

Here's a visual guide to the tech tree, as of 3.2.2.

And if you have no Minor Artifacts, you probably dont have the Ancient Relics DLC.

In addition, there is a mod that provides color coded borders around technologies that tell you what tier each technology is. Here is a link to it for steam.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm holding off on mod advice for now, simple because there are so many options. Heck, by now I think the size of my mods might outweigh the size of my original game installation and I'm fairly restrained by some standards.