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    Default PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LU8yp2fhaTjVeRlEprv

    Let me know what you think? Thanks.
    I maybe made them too strong? not sure. still deciding. wanted to keep in all original spells they had access to. Cone of cold and other 5th lv spells are maybe too high for when the subclass is actually balanced though. I could go up to just 4th lv spells like a 1/3 caster.
    I feel like their spells pulling from their monk ki and their limited spell list helps balance them, though.

    oh also, trying to decide which ability should be 6 and which should be 11 out of the 6th and 11th ability that are already present.
    Last edited by MagneticKitty; 2018-12-20 at 03:19 AM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LU8yp2fhaTjVeRlEprv

    Let me know what you think? Thanks.
    I maybe made them too strong? not sure. still deciding. wanted to keep in all original spells they had access to. Cone of cold and other 5th lv spells are maybe too high for when the subclass is actually balanced though. I could go up to just 4th lv spells like a 1/3 caster.
    I feel like their spells pulling from their monk ki and their limited spell list helps balance them, though.

    oh also, trying to decide which ability should be 6 and which should be 11 out of the 6th and 11th ability that are already present.
    You need to make a forced page change for the part after spellcasting ability.
    Nevermind, it seems the issue is at my end, on mobile device.


    Edit:
    I must say, your take on the elements and their related damage types, regarding both dealing and resisting, seem awfully familiar. Did you by any chance see the Primal Path of the Rage Mage before I lost the elemental parts of it?

    If, however, in the off chance you came up with them on your own, I guess I'm just trying to say that I'm glad to see that someone else came up with an exactly same idea regarding the elemental damage types.

    "Great minds think alike"
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-20 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    You need to make a forced page change for the part after spellcasting ability.
    Nevermind, it seems the issue is at my end, on mobile device.


    Edit:
    I must say, your take on the elements and their related damage types, regarding both dealing and resisting, seem awfully familiar. Did you by any chance see the Primal Path of the Rage Mage before I lost the elemental parts of it?

    If, however, in the off chance you came up with them on your own, I guess I'm just trying to say that I'm glad to see that someone else came up with an exactly same idea regarding the elemental damage types.

    "Great minds think alike"
    No I haven't seen Rage mage. is that a casting barbarian? sounds interesting.... a challenge to make for sure.
    what part is similar?

    also I'm thinking I will swap in a few utility spells over damage. maybe half each spell level is utility. or every other spell level has some utility... I'll play with it and see.

    also as a side note, I know in avatar (which is this designed after slightly) lightning is an extension of fire, not air... but adaptations for DND had to be made, lol.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    No I haven't seen Rage mage. is that a casting barbarian? sounds interesting.... a challenge to make for sure.
    what part is similar?

    also I'm thinking I will swap in a few utility spells over damage. maybe half each spell level is utility. or every other spell level has some utility... I'll play with it and see.

    also as a side note, I know in avatar (which is this designed after slightly) lightning is an extension of fire, not air... but adaptations for DND had to be made, lol.
    In a nutshell, the similarities (before I made the mistake and forgot to save the separate homebrewery page I made for the elemental parts) were these:

    Air has thunder resistance, and deals lightning damage.
    Earth has lightning resistance, and deals bludgeoning damage.
    Fire has fire resistance, and deals fire damage.
    Water has cold resistance, and deals cold damage.

    Apart from the (very bad) live action movie, I know very little about Avatar, but to me the above pairings just make much more sense than the "standard" D&D-pairings below:

    Air = Lightning.
    Earth = Acid (?!?!?!).
    Fire = Fire.
    Water = Cold.

    The Rage Mage you can find here (homebrewery) and here (forums) (do note, this is the final version and it ended up being separated from a connection to any specific element).
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-20 at 12:32 PM.
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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    In a nutshell, the similarities (before I made the mistake and forgot to save the separate homebrewery page I made for the elemental parts) were these:

    Air has thunder resistance, and deals lightning damage.
    Earth has lightning resistance, and deals bludgeoning damage.
    Fire has fire resistance, and deals fire damage.
    Water has cold resistance, and deals cold damage.

    Apart from the (very bad) live action movie, I know very little about Avatar, but to me the above pairings just make much more sense than the "standard" D&D-pairings below:

    Air = Lightning.
    Earth = Acid (?!?!?!).
    Fire = Fire.
    Water = Cold.

    The Rage Mage you can find here (homebrewery) and here (forums) (do note, this is the final version and it ended up being separated from a connection to any specific element).
    Hmm that's an interesting barb. Spell fury seems... not great. You won't be taking con spells until lv 14 so you either have a bunch of spells you can't use in prep for it or only have one or two at lv 14. Anyway, thanks for the critique!

    Edit: I can't type today
    Last edited by MagneticKitty; 2018-12-20 at 02:04 PM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    Hmm that's an interesting barb. Spell fury seems... not great. You won't be taking con spells until lv 14 so you either have a bunch of spells you can't use in prep for it or only have one or two at lv 14. Anyway, thanks for the critique!

    Edit: I can't type today
    Can't really say if I actually gave any critique. I merely noticed you had some similarities with how I personally prefer looking at the elements and how they (should) interact with the environment.
    My Homebrew:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Current Characters:
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    Anarriel, Valenar Fighter (Cavalier/TBD) 4 (Eberron: Embers of the Last War)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Can't really say if I actually gave any critique. I merely noticed you had some similarities with how I personally prefer looking at the elements and how they (should) interact with the environment.
    I suppose so XD
    Well at least the elemental logic of the class you seem to agree with. Now I just wait for balance feedback

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    This looks a lot better than the base version.

    Energy conduit needs some clarification. You're using unarmed strikes (which you're proficient in) but you add only half your proficiency bonus to the attack roll?

    For mechanics, you should probably change the Air energy conduit's damage type to thunder. Thunder is a wave traveling through air, after all. Also, in Avatar lightning is derived from fire rather than air. There's even a wonderful bit in the original show where a character attempts to learn to shoot lightning, can't, and then learns to redirect lightning instead (based on techniques from a different form of bending).

    I feel like you should have 2 spells per element per level, to make it easier to build single elements characters. It looks like Mold Earth is the only non-combat spell? I guess Fly can kind of count as well? having these nice rules makes we want to try a party entirely of the subclass, where each one focuses on a specific element.

    Finally, I'd specific whether thamauturgy counts against your number of cantrips known (it looks like it doesn't), and I'd probably rename Avatar State to make the subclass easier to fit into a setting. The mechanics are fine, the name is just a little on the nose.

    But again, even just the basic mechanics look like a massive improvement over the published version of the subclass.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    This looks a lot better than the base version.

    Energy conduit needs some clarification. You're using unarmed strikes (which you're proficient in) but you add only half your proficiency bonus to the attack roll?

    For mechanics, you should probably change the Air energy conduit's damage type to thunder. Thunder is a wave traveling through air, after all. Also, in Avatar lightning is derived from fire rather than air. There's even a wonderful bit in the original show where a character attempts to learn to shoot lightning, can't, and then learns to redirect lightning instead (based on techniques from a different form of bending).

    I feel like you should have 2 spells per element per level, to make it easier to build single elements characters. It looks like Mold Earth is the only non-combat spell? I guess Fly can kind of count as well? having these nice rules makes we want to try a party entirely of the subclass, where each one focuses on a specific element.

    Finally, I'd specific whether thamauturgy counts against your number of cantrips known (it looks like it doesn't), and I'd probably rename Avatar State to make the subclass easier to fit into a setting. The mechanics are fine, the name is just a little on the nose.

    But again, even just the basic mechanics look like a massive improvement over the published version of the subclass.
    Here were my thoughts on it:
    Energy conduit you do get your prof, think +1, +2 Or +3 weapons.

    For mechanics I can't think of a thunder whip, it just seems odd.

    I mentioned the difference from avatar, see my second post.

    I wanted number of spells to be comparable to 4 elements, meaning fewer spells... But I can see that would be desired.. also lv 17 ability uses all the elements.. no avoiding that as is

    I was thinking some more non combat spells. Or more non damage. Sleet storm is more battle field control as are the wall spells and gust of wind.

    Thaumaturgy doesn't count against known cantrips, I will note that when I get home, thanks.

    I can rename avatar mode.. maybe.. elemental awakening?

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    Here were my thoughts on it:
    Energy conduit you do get your prof, think +1, +2 Or +3 weapons.
    I'd probably write that as letting you use 1 and a half times your proficiency modifier. As written it isn't clear your adding that to the normal attack roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    For mechanics I can't think of a thunder whip, it just seems odd.

    I mentioned the difference from avatar, see my second post.
    I apologize for missing that. I my head, a thunder whip looks like sonic boom from pokemon (when I tried to find an image of this, it appears I'm referring to the way it looked in the mainline games, generations 3 through 5).

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    I wanted number of spells to be comparable to 4 elements, meaning fewer spells... But I can see that would be desired.. also lv 17 ability uses all the elements.. no avoiding that as is

    I was thinking some more non combat spells. Or more non damage. Sleet storm is more battle field control as are the wall spells and gust of wind.
    I'm okay with the lv 17 ability, but this does seem inflexible.

    Spoiler: Starting suggestions
    Show
    Cantrips: Shape Water (Water), Magic Stone (Earth), Control Flames (Fire), Gust (Air).
    1st level: Fog Cloud (Water), Grease (Earth), Hellish Rebuke (Fire, Feather Fall (Air).
    2nd level: Lesser Restoration (Water), Heat Metal (Fire), Silence (Air).
    3rd level: Tidal Wave (Water), Erupting Earth & Meld Into Stone (Earth), Minute Meteors (Fire), Thunder Step/Lightning Bolt (Air).
    4th level: Control Water (Water), Stone Shape (Earth), Fire Shield (Fire), Freedom of Movement (Air).
    5th level: Maelstrom (Water), Wall of Stone, (Earth), Immolation (Fire), Control Winds (Air).

    Earthbind is a 2nd level spell, so I suggest moving that to 2nd level and why I have two suggestions at 3rd level.
    Water also has a lot of other options.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    I can rename avatar mode.. maybe.. elemental awakening?
    That works for me. Arkhios is far better at that though.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'd probably write that as letting you use 1 and a half times your proficiency modifier. As written it isn't clear your adding that to the normal attack roll.


    I apologize for missing that. I my head, a thunder whip looks like sonic boom from pokemon (when I tried to find an image of this, it appears I'm referring to the way it looked in the mainline games, generations 3 through 5).



    I'm okay with the lv 17 ability, but this does seem inflexible.

    Spoiler: Starting suggestions
    Show
    Cantrips: Shape Water (Water), Magic Stone (Earth), Control Flames (Fire), Gust (Air).
    1st level: Fog Cloud (Water), Grease (Earth), Hellish Rebuke (Fire, Feather Fall (Air).
    2nd level: Lesser Restoration (Water), Heat Metal (Fire), Silence (Air).
    3rd level: Tidal Wave (Water), Erupting Earth & Meld Into Stone (Earth), Minute Meteors (Fire), Thunder Step/Lightning Bolt (Air).
    4th level: Control Water (Water), Stone Shape (Earth), Fire Shield (Fire), Freedom of Movement (Air).
    5th level: Maelstrom (Water), Wall of Stone, (Earth), Immolation (Fire), Control Winds (Air).

    Earthbind is a 2nd level spell, so I suggest moving that to 2nd level and why I have two suggestions at 3rd level.
    Water also has a lot of other options.


    That works for me. Arkhios is far better at that though.


    Woops my bad on earthbind. Thanks for the spell suggestions. Long as you don't consider them getting a few more spells op.
    Will work on reworking when I get home. Gm binder and mobile do not play nice

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    Woops my bad on earthbind. Thanks for the spell suggestions. Long as you don't consider them getting a few more spells op.
    Will work on reworking when I get home. Gm binder and mobile do not play nice
    Please let me know when you've done that, and I think as long as you're adding to the subclass' spell list instead of increasing the number of spells known you're fine.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Please let me know when you've done that, and I think as long as you're adding to the subclass' spell list instead of increasing the number of spells known you're fine.
    Newest revision is now up!

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Faerie Fire is probably better than what I suggested, although you now have Hellish Rebuke listed as an earth spell.

    Assuming fire damage as an earth spell was a typo, I will admit there don't seem to be many good alternatives. Maybe Longstrider or Floating Disk?

    I would also be careful about allowing healing spells. There is the thematic "wash away the pain" element, but you will end up getting healing back after a short rest. Someone else should probably check how strong that actually is. Until then, I'm going to list some other potential options: Armor of Agythys, Create or Destroy Water, Fog Cloud and Grease. And yes, I realize I've now suggested grease for two elements.

    Also: [roll]1d4[/roll]
    Edit: oh well. After rolling a die I don't need to format, I'm off to make an Air Genasi monk.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2018-12-21 at 12:32 AM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Faerie Fire is probably better than what I suggested, although you now have Hellish Rebuke listed as an earth spell.

    Assuming fire damage as an earth spell was a typo, I will admit there don't seem to be many good alternatives. Maybe Longstrider or Floating Disk?

    I would also be careful about allowing healing spells. There is the thematic "wash away the pain" element, but you will end up getting healing back after a short rest. Someone else should probably check how strong that actually is. Until then, I'm going to list some other potential options: Armor of Agythys, Create or Destroy Water, Fog Cloud and Grease. And yes, I realize I've now suggested grease for two elements.

    Also: [roll]1d4[/roll]
    Edit: oh well. After rolling a die I don't need to format, I'm off to make an Air Genasi monk.
    fixed, swapped faerie fire for hellish
    swapped cure wounds for puppet (the others that get healing get a separate limited pool and don't use ki to do it, so that does make sense.) swapped lesser restoration for misty step. longstrider is crazy with monk's movement, so I gave them floating disk.
    how's that?

    What do you think of an alternate final ability in the optional section at the end where if you choose only one element you get elemental adept for that element and like an enhanced single aura instead of a mix of them..
    Last edited by MagneticKitty; 2018-12-21 at 11:22 AM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    fixed, swapped faerie fire for hellish
    swapped cure wounds for puppet (the others that get healing get a separate limited pool and don't use ki to do it, so that does make sense.) swapped lesser restoration for misty step. longstrider is crazy with monk's movement, so I gave them floating disk.
    how's that?

    What do you think of an alternate final ability in the optional section at the end where if you choose only one element you get elemental adept for that element and like an enhanced single aura instead of a mix of them..
    Both final abilities sound fine to me, and otherwise it looks good. I look forward to trying the subclass out.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Both final abilities sound fine to me, and otherwise it looks good. I look forward to trying the subclass out.
    Opinions on allowing elemental whip attacks to optionally key off of wis instead of dex? My thoughts were, there were monks that don't really strongly need wis. Some that equally use both dex and wis, this one could need more wis than dex. Would relieve MADness on some builds

    Edit: I hate auto correct
    Last edited by MagneticKitty; 2018-12-26 at 11:59 AM.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    Opinions on allowing elemental whip attacks to optionally key off of wis instead of dex? My thoughts were, there were monks that don't really strongly need wis. Some that equally use both dex and wis, this one could need more wis than dex. Would relieve MADness on some builds

    Edit: I hate auto correct
    On the face of it that looks fine to me. I doubt that would make multiclassing between monk and either fighter or cleric more feasible, but I doubt it would affect any others.

    As a single class monk, you could benefit from valuing wis over dex, which I don't think existing subclasses do.

    If there's anything broken by that, I don't see it.

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    Default Re: PEACH Monk Subclass Way of the Four Elements (Revised)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagneticKitty View Post
    Edit: I hate auto correct
    Turn it off. I did it as soon as I bought my first smart phone, and never looked back.

    I'm doing great without.
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