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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Hipster Dixit's Avatar

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    Default Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    Hello everyone,

    this is my newest creation, a blood-themed warlock patron. As usual, please do not refrain from expressing your honest opinion and help me find critical points to fix.

    Thank you and merry christmas ;)

    Blood Saint Patron (PDF link)
    Last edited by Hipster Dixit; 2018-12-25 at 05:50 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipster Dixit
    one pound of fresh, or very well preserved, blood
    I think most folks would do better with a sense of volume rather than mass when it comes to a liquid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipster Dixit
    spreading the blood on its armor, clothes and weapons.
    How big are these vials? The mechanical effect is fine, and admittedly it's been a while since I had to fully paint a person's body, but I know I couldn't cover all that with anything I'd call travel-sized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hispter Dixit
    Offering to the Saint
    I think the sacrifice portions could be worked into Blood Consecration and leave everything else more to fluff, as it currently is for the other subclasses. Player characters are still probably going to find it easiest to do the sacrifice themselves than ask a local butcher for blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipster Dixit
    Orgy of Bloodlust *SNIP* At the beginning of each of its turn, an affected creature can repeat the Wisdom saving throw to end this effect.
    The usual pattern is the secondary saving throw is at the end of the affected creature's turn.

    I don't think the new conditions are necessary. Poison could replace nausea and it its a poison theme already present in other places in the subclass. The bleeding is not ubiquitous enough to require a condition. Incorporate its effects into the spells where it occurs.

    Blood Rush - Simultaneously doesn't scale as a spell, but scales too well because of the proficiency bonus. I think you could par back the effects and remove the concentration requirement. 1 minute duration, no concentration, +10 movement speed and advantage on Dexterity ability checks and saving throws. Casting at higher levels incorporates the other bonuses as one uses better and better spell slots.

    Hemorrhage - The auto-damage is unusual. I think you're better served by making it be it be damage and two levels of exhaustion (disadvantage on ability rolls and half movement assuming no pre-existing exhaustion) if failed save, half damage and no exhaustion on save. At the end of each turn, make a save: if failed, still exhausted and take 2d8 damage, if made, reduce exhaustion by one and half damage. Spell ends when two levels of exhaustions are gone. If you want to make it a non-concentration spell then you could lower the damage over time to 1d8 or 2d4 or something like that.

    Preserve Blood - Groovy, perfect fit. Maybe expand it to any fluid to give a bit more utility outside of the class features.

    Rend Flesh - I'd just model this one's damage on a first level version of Melf's Acid Arrow (though still slashing damage). I think having the spell count as a critical hit for the purposes of death saving throws would be a fine freebie as most NPC combatants aren't going to be making those in the first place.

    Sanguine Blade - Too high of an upper limit for a second level spell (brief hypothetical: invocation for two attacks, turn after casting and you could have a weapon dealing 5d8 damage, then 7d8, etc.); the balancing component could kill a lower level character. A simple fix would be to have the weapon give Advantage on attacks against creatures it has previously wounded or that are not at full health; similar to how Shadow Blade has Advantage when used in dim light.

    Septicemia - It reads like it is causing a disease effect, but it has a strict 10 turn duration during which you autofail saves against other diseases? I think you need to narrow down on if you want follow the description or the mechanics. Bestow Curse would be a good template to work from. You're at a higher level so you could kick up the duration right off the bat to Concentration, up to 10 minutes. Disadvantage on Constitution ability checks and saving throws, can't be healed, slashing and piercing damage deals an extra 1d8 poison damage. Greater Restoration and Heal end the spell effect. Casting at higher levels could have the same extended duration effect.

    Bloodseeking Weapon - I think this narrative space is occupied by Thirsting Blade and Life Drinker. A possibility is to instead take the bonus and apply it to Eldritch Blast.

    Innocent Blood - Considering the cost-benefit ratio, this is not an attractive option. I recommend something along the lines of if your familiar dies within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to gain the benefit of Blessing of Renewal and you can choose to reduce your maximum hit points by d4 for twenty-four hours to replace the material components with your blood when casting Find Familiar. If you do so, the effect of Renewal of Blessing from Innocent Blood is doubled.

    Macabre Inscription - Pretty darn solid.

    Mirror of the Saint - Pretty darn solid

    Rapid Coagulation - I feel that with the second portion that the first is too much, maybe have it be Advantage on death saving throws. The other option is split this invocation into two. One is the reaction and the other effectively replicates Periapt of Wound Closing with auto-stabilization and perks when using Hit Dice to heal.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Hipster Dixit's Avatar

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    Default Re: Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    Thank you very much for your review, it is very helpful to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    I think most folks would do better with a sense of volume rather than mass when it comes to a liquid.
    Sure, I am not very familiar with the English measure system. Changed to pints, which should be more or less equivalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    How big are these vials? The mechanical effect is fine, and admittedly it's been a while since I had to fully paint a person's body, but I know I couldn't cover all that with anything I'd call travel-sized.
    Absolutely correct, though the point is that since the blood is magical, it transcends the normal property of liquids. If you like, you can imagine it dripping from your head in rivulets up to your feet, and then spraying on your enemies as they hit you. It does not need to cover all the surface of your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    I think the sacrifice portions could be worked into Blood Consecration and leave everything else more to fluff, as it currently is for the other subclasses. Player characters are still probably going to find it easiest to do the sacrifice themselves than ask a local butcher for blood.
    Actually, at the beginning it was like this. I decided to separate the ritual from other features that require blood because otherwise the player would be forced to make a sacrifice each day to use such features (like blood consecration), and I though that might be a little restrictive. Like if the players are inside a dungeon full of undead and golems. So the idea is that you make the ritual, get the blood for 1 week, use the cantrip to preserve it, and your are ok. If you want to use the clarvoyance invocation, you make additional sacrifices or buy some blood, as you say. I think it's fine as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    The usual pattern is the secondary saving throw is at the end of the affected creature's turn.
    Good catch, will change.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    I don't think the new conditions are necessary. Poison could replace nausea and it its a poison theme already present in other places in the subclass. The bleeding is not ubiquitous enough to require a condition. Incorporate its effects into the spells where it occurs.
    Yeah definitely. I plan to use these conditions in future homebrew so I just wanted to write them down somewhere, but I think there might be better places to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Sanguine Blade - Too high of an upper limit for a second level spell (brief hypothetical: invocation for two attacks, turn after casting and you could have a weapon dealing 5d8 damage, then 7d8, etc.); the balancing component could kill a lower level character. A simple fix would be to have the weapon give Advantage on attacks against creatures it has previously wounded or that are not at full health; similar to how Shadow Blade has Advantage when used in dim light.
    Well, you can't use Thirsting Blade (I think it's what your are referring to) to make bonus attacks with a weapon that is not your pact weapon. Actually, I believe even Extra Attack wouldn't work, since attacking with this spell is not an Attack action. And the hard cap is 5d8, you can't go further. Yes the self damage could kill a lower level character, but I wanted this spell to be a high risk/high reward option, maybe more risk than reward since it requires you to go melee, but I like it as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Bloodseeking Weapon - I think this narrative space is occupied by Thirsting Blade and Life Drinker. A possibility is to instead take the bonus and apply it to Eldritch Blast.
    I wanted to make an invocation for each of the three pacts. Maybe I can find a more unique effect than the one I came up with... I'll think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Innocent Blood - Considering the cost-benefit ratio, this is not an attractive option. I recommend something along the lines of if your familiar dies within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to gain the benefit of Blessing of Renewal and you can choose to reduce your maximum hit points by d4 for twenty-four hours to replace the material components with your blood when casting Find Familiar. If you do so, the effect of Renewal of Blessing from Innocent Blood is doubled.
    I feared that much. I really want to keep this such that the player has to sacrifice the familiar, though. Maybe giving two rations instead of one? Or giving just one ration but with improved effect, like double healing/damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Blood Rush - Simultaneously doesn't scale as a spell, but scales too well because of the proficiency bonus. I think you could par back the effects and remove the concentration requirement. 1 minute duration, no concentration, +10 movement speed and advantage on Dexterity ability checks and saving throws. Casting at higher levels incorporates the other bonuses as one uses better and better spell slots.

    Hemorrhage - The auto-damage is unusual. I think you're better served by making it be it be damage and two levels of exhaustion (disadvantage on ability rolls and half movement assuming no pre-existing exhaustion) if failed save, half damage and no exhaustion on save. At the end of each turn, make a save: if failed, still exhausted and take 2d8 damage, if made, reduce exhaustion by one and half damage. Spell ends when two levels of exhaustions are gone. If you want to make it a non-concentration spell then you could lower the damage over time to 1d8 or 2d4 or something like that.

    Rend Flesh - I'd just model this one's damage on a first level version of Melf's Acid Arrow (though still slashing damage). I think having the spell count as a critical hit for the purposes of death saving throws would be a fine freebie as most NPC combatants aren't going to be making those in the first place.

    Septicemia - It reads like it is causing a disease effect, but it has a strict 10 turn duration during which you autofail saves against other diseases? I think you need to narrow down on if you want follow the description or the mechanics. Bestow Curse would be a good template to work from. You're at a higher level so you could kick up the duration right off the bat to Concentration, up to 10 minutes. Disadvantage on Constitution ability checks and saving throws, can't be healed, slashing and piercing damage deals an extra 1d8 poison damage. Greater Restoration and Heal end the spell effect. Casting at higher levels could have the same extended duration effect.

    Rapid Coagulation - I feel that with the second portion that the first is too much, maybe have it be Advantage on death saving throws. The other option is split this invocation into two. One is the reaction and the other effectively replicates Periapt of Wound Closing with auto-stabilization and perks when using Hit Dice to heal.
    Good ideas, will make as you suggest.
    Last edited by Hipster Dixit; 2018-12-25 at 05:51 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipster Dixit View Post
    Actually, at the beginning it was like this. I decided to separate the ritual from other features that require blood because otherwise the player would be forced to make a sacrifice each day to use such features (like blood consecration), and I though that might be a little restrictive. Like if the players are inside a dungeon full of undead and golems. So the idea is that you make the ritual, get the blood for 1 week, use the cantrip to preserve it, and your are ok. If you want to use the clarvoyance invocation, you make additional sacrifices or buy some blood, as you say. I think it's fine as it is.
    Sorry, I messed up the wording. My intent wasn't that the sacrifice would be required for using blood consecration, just that the rules on sacrifice and how it can create blood that can preserved for later could be put there.

    Sanguine Blade - that's cool, if it's in the place you want then not a problem. The second attack was assuming a character around level 8 who could get Extra Attack from one class and then go into warlock. I didn't catch the upper limit when I read through it and it does help.

    Innocent Blood - I think part of the issue is there's two considerations: gold and time cost-benefit and narrative cost-benefit. The first part is straight forward: is the benefit of Innocent Blood worth sacrificing 10 GP's worth of material and the hour it takes to resummon the familiar. The second part, is it really a sacrifice that is different in a meaningful way from a normal sacrifice if the same familiar can just be resummoned? If it's just the blood that matters then a rat is a rat. If it involves something more than that (spirit, soul, essence, life force, etc) then the familiar -or the bond to it- shouldn't be unaffected afterward. When I first read through it, I had the image in my head that the Pact of Chains Blood Saint effectively made the familiar from a portion of their own blood, more a homunculus, so Innocent Blood was effectively a sacrifice of the self and resummoning the familiar just required spilling more of their own blood. This was reflected in my suggestion. My recommendation is to identify exactly what you visualized with Innocent Blood (and the name itself is loaded with pathos), how it's different from a normal sacrifice, and work from there.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Sorry, I messed up the wording. My intent wasn't that the sacrifice would be required for using blood consecration, just that the rules on sacrifice and how it can create blood that can preserved for later could be put there.
    Ok I understand now. I don't know, it seems to me that keeping them separate is more plain and elegant to read, but I might be wrong. I think I keep it that way for now, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by cesius View Post
    Innocent Blood - I think part of the issue is there's two considerations: gold and time cost-benefit and narrative cost-benefit. The first part is straight forward: is the benefit of Innocent Blood worth sacrificing 10 GP's worth of material and the hour it takes to resummon the familiar. The second part, is it really a sacrifice that is different in a meaningful way from a normal sacrifice if the same familiar can just be resummoned? If it's just the blood that matters then a rat is a rat. If it involves something more than that (spirit, soul, essence, life force, etc) then the familiar -or the bond to it- shouldn't be unaffected afterward. When I first read through it, I had the image in my head that the Pact of Chains Blood Saint effectively made the familiar from a portion of their own blood, more a homunculus, so Innocent Blood was effectively a sacrifice of the self and resummoning the familiar just required spilling more of their own blood. This was reflected in my suggestion. My recommendation is to identify exactly what you visualized with Innocent Blood (and the name itself is loaded with pathos), how it's different from a normal sacrifice, and work from there.
    Ok so what about this. You permanently sacrifice your familiar and cannot resummon it. In exchange for that, you get one additional ration of blood each time you use blood consecration, with doubled effect. What about now?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Otherworldly Patron: The Blood Saint (+ new warlock spells and invocations)

    I could see that, effectively losing one class feature to double down on the other.

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