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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Okay folks. It's here. The handbook you've all been waiting for.

    The Warlockopedia!

    Hi! My name is Jasmine, and I'm here to talk about warlocks. (Specifically, warlocks in D&D 3.5e—if you're a 5e player, sorry, I'm sure there's another guide for that somewhere.)

    So. Here we are. Welcome to my Warlockopedia, a fully comprehensive handbook covering everything you need to know to play a warlock, whether you’re a newer player looking for advice and sample builds, a more invested player looking for fresh ways to optimize, or a grizzled veteran looking for a quick reference tool. The comprehensive nature of this handbook means that even non-warlocks should find it useful, too, particularly the sections on items, feats, templates, and Use Magic Device.
    This is your encyclopedia for the warlock class, clocking in at over 115,000 words across 6 documents and 12 spreadsheets, not including the supplemental homebrew section. It covers invocations, feats, races, templates, prestige classes, multiclassing, spells, items, skills, ability scores, alternate class features, and quick builds, plus nine full sample builds (and counting). HTML versions are also provided for those of you who can load them more easily than Google Docs. Enjoy!

    Spoiler: Table of Contents
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    Table of Contents

    Introduction, Index, Class Overview, Skills, and ACFs (HTML version)
    This section introduces the warlock class and discusses tactics, strategy, key ability scores, skills, and alternative class features. It also has the table of contents (reproduced here, of course). I recommend starting here.

    Invocations (HTML version)
    This section goes over every invocation option, rating them and providing commentary.

    Races and Templates (HTML version)
    This section covers racial options, including races, templates, and level-adjusted options.

    Multiclassing and Prestige Classes (HTML version)
    This section covers warlock-friendly prestige classes and some options for multiclassing.

    Feats (HTML version)
    This is a spreadsheet listing all the feats that you might want to take, tagged by category.

    Items (HTML version)
    This is a spreadsheet providing a comprehensive list of items to help you spend your gold, tagged by category. It also includes tips for choosing items, plus a reference for character wealth by level and the item level system introduced in Magic Item Compendium.

    UMD Spells (HTML version)
    This spreadsheet lists spells that you might want to obtain in wands, scrolls, or other magic items, and acts as a supplement to the item spreadsheet. Spells are listed at the lowest level they're available to a base class. (I’m still updating this one—haven’t gone through every spell in the game yet.)

    Quick Build Guide (HTML version)
    For quick character generation, use these ready-to-go build templates in the style of Player’s Handbook II. The quick builds in that book always struck me as an excellent idea poorly executed, so I thought I'd try my hand at redoing them, except without taking Point Blank Shot twice on the same character.

    Warlock Concepts (HTML version)
    This is a story-focused section that provides sample character hooks to inspire you. Submissions are open if you have a concept of your own to share!

    Sample Builds
    Each of these is a fully-fledged character build, presented in spreadsheet form. Most of them showcase interesting, offbeat, or thematic builds, and all of them are designed to be playable at any level.
    • Anima Warlock (HTML): An experimental cross between a warlock and a binder. This is a socially-oriented build that uses the anima mage prestige class to gain access to vestiges.
    • Arachnolock (HTML): A scorpion-themed Vulkoori warlock using the arachnomancer and vermin keeper prestige classes. Combines traditional warlock tactics with the ability to turn into a giant monstrous scorpion and shred faces.
    • Bearlock (HTML): "On the one hand, we could have a reasonable, civilized discussion and talk out this problem. On the other hand, I could turn into a bear and claw your face off. Which would you prefer?"
    • Blood Magus (HTML): You can B positive that this build is out for blood.
    • Changeling Whistlelock (HTML): A twist on the halfling whistler prestige class—it’s not a halfling. It's a changeling with a level of rogue. The rogue dip enables improved damage with eldritch blast via sneak attack, plus improved social skills thanks to social intuition.
    • Demonbinder (HTML): A straightforward build showcasing the demonbinder prestige class.
    • Heartfire Stormlock (HTML): This Charisma-heavy build dips into bard to enable the stormsinger prestige class and eventually heartfire fanner. It gets a bunch of sweet storm-themed powers, and can serve as party face in addition to providing disruption, support, battlefield control, and blasting.
    • Prehistorlock (HTML): Neanderthal warlock smash! Neanderthal warlock like hit thing on head with big stick! Sometimes stab with other big stick. Scare enemies, rawr!
    • Unseenlock (HTML): A sneaky roguelike build that uses sneak attack to boost eldritch blast damage in conjunction with the Blend into Darkness feat and a healthy Hide check.
    • Urban Savant (HTML): This build focuses on Knowledge skills and the urban savant prestige class. Identify all the monsters! Because it can use Knowledge in place of Diplomacy and wild empathy, it can also function impressively as a party face.

    Bibliography (HTML version)
    This is a collection of secondary and tertiary sources that I referred to during the creation of this handbook. Most of them are also great resources in their own right that are well worth checking out.

    Troacctid’s Warlock Homebrew (HTML version)
    This isn't officially part of the guide. It's just a bunch of cool invocations, alternative class features, and epic feats I wrote up to fill what I perceived to be some of the class’s gaps. (Little to no playtesting.)

    Spoiler: Sidebar: Using Google Sheets
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    There are two main things you need to know to read the spreadsheets in this handbook. First, most of the spreadsheets have multiple sheets. You can navigate between them using the tabs at the bottom (or at the top, for the HTML versions), which will look something like this.


    Each tab is its own sheet with different information, so make sure to check out all of them.

    The second thing is filter views. This is how you can sort and filter the various tables. You can access filter views by clicking the funnel button at the top:



    I’ve preloaded a selection of common filters, but you can also create your own. To do so, click “Create new temporary filter view” and then you should be able to click on the little arrow thingies at the tops of the columns. From there you can filter for certain conditions (for example, if the cell contains a particular word), or simply check off items from the list.


    Spoiler: Sidebar: The Color Code
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    Throughout this handbook, I'll be using a color-coding system to rate certain options.

    Blue represents options that are universally powerful. Regardless of your build, you can count on a blue option to be good.
    Black represents options that are universally decent. They're not quite on the same level as the blue options, but they are fine, and can still serve you well on any build.
    Red is for the stuff that's just bad—usually either trap options that don't do anything or subpar choices that are too narrow to be worth taking. Stay away from these.
    Magenta represents options that require support from the rest of your build in order to excel. Unlike blue or black options, you can't just drop them onto any warlock and expect them to perform. They're not necessarily less powerful, they're just not universally powerful.

    Always read the descriptions–don't just look at the color. The text provides important context for the rating. (Especially for the magenta ones.)

    Some sections of the guide, like the prestige class section, are so build- or playstyle-dependent that almost everything would be magenta. Of course, if everything is magenta, then nothing is, so I've opted not to color-code those sections at all.

    Feedback and discussion are welcome. Also, I don't make mistakes, of course, but there's always a chance that some meddling Ellimist went and altered reality to make something I wrote retroactively inaccurate, so feel free to point out where that's the case. (Darn Ellimists.)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Looks good :) I love warlocks so this is great.

    Any chance the feats could get the same colour treatment that the other pages have?

    Also, Im worried that Black is still too generous for Baleful Utterance. Ive had several DMs flat out tell me it doesnt work the way the Playground think it does. Sure, it can shatter things, but the DM gets to decide what that means.

    Examples I have encountered are:

    Baleful Utterance on a lock, shattered the mechanism, making the door unpickable (instead of unlocked, a common Playground recommendation).
    Soft items are not "solid". Shatter sunders small, solid items. Previous DMs have read solid as the opposite of flexible, rather than a state of matter. You cant sunder cloth with the shatter spell (they say).

    Maybe its magenta? Maybe its red? I dont think those DMs would say it was black.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Albions_Angel View Post
    Also, Im worried that Black is still too generous for Baleful Utterance. Ive had several DMs flat out tell me it doesnt work the way the Playground think it does. Sure, it can shatter things, but the DM gets to decide what that means.

    Examples I have encountered are:

    Baleful Utterance on a lock, shattered the mechanism, making the door unpickable (instead of unlocked, a common Playground recommendation).
    Tell them you aren't shattering the lock then, you are shattering the entire door. A door reduced to dozens of pieces will cease to have relevant function.

    Soft items are not "solid". Shatter sunders small, solid items. Previous DMs have read solid as the opposite of flexible, rather than a state of matter. You cant sunder cloth with the shatter spell (they say).

    Maybe its magenta? Maybe its red? I dont think those DMs would say it was black.
    Those DM's are incorrect.
    The opposite of "soft" that instance is not "solid", but "rigid". Or "inflexible". This is how the spell would read if that was the intended effect.

    If you sunder a piece of cloth with a sword, you are going to tear and destroy it. Same thing happens with the spell.
    Last edited by Doctor Awkward; 2018-12-29 at 04:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    But that's one of the things about interpreting RAW—when you pick a reading that goes against RAI, it often has a ripple effect that results in dysfunctions in other places.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Door is too big to target.

    And I tried saying that. I got 2 arguments.

    1) Solid is absolutely a valid antonym to soft or flexible. We use it that way all the time. When we throw a shed up, we say its "solid" when we mean "rigid". As it can be read like that, its a valid reading of RAW. DM rules, no sunder.
    2) Cloth can be sundered with a sharp blade. Baleful Utterance is clearly a sonic shattering effect. RAI is clear that it shatters hard objects, not cloth. DM rules, no sunder.

    And you know what, while they arnt the calls I would make as a DM, I cant fault them. They are both valid points. Thats not unreasonable DM territory.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Albions_Angel View Post
    Also, Im worried that Black is still too generous for Baleful Utterance. Ive had several DMs flat out tell me it doesnt work the way the Playground think it does. Sure, it can shatter things, but the DM gets to decide what that means.

    Examples I have encountered are:

    Baleful Utterance on a lock, shattered the mechanism, making the door unpickable (instead of unlocked, a common Playground recommendation).
    Soft items are not "solid". Shatter sunders small, solid items. Previous DMs have read solid as the opposite of flexible, rather than a state of matter. You cant sunder cloth with the shatter spell (they say).

    Maybe its magenta? Maybe its red? I dont think those DMs would say it was black.
    Try breaking the hinges. Or the knob—that could leave a hole to stick your hand through. It's basically the magical equivalent of shooting a lock with a handgun. Even if it doesn't work for door locks, it should still do a number on chains or padlocks, and eventually you can just shatter the door itself. As for cloth, it probably has crap for hardness, so just attack it normally, I guess.

    My feeling is that other analyses have tended to overrate the invocation's utility and underrate its combat power. Humanoid enemies are pretty common, and most of the time you can really debilitate them by smashing their weapon. That said, I do still like the utility aspect enough that I think it can be generally okay with reasonable consistency.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Ill drink to that. Its still very useful.

    Yeah, the issue I had with cloth (or rather my DMs had with cloth) was that I tried to use it the same way you suggested on a component pouch.

    As for the door, in that instance, the DM clearly didnt want it forced. He wanted the rogue to disable it and fine, and disable, the trap attached. But i have to admit, I couldnt fault his reasoning for WHY it didnt work.

    Eventually we retconned me taking BU entirely, because it was sort of ruining the game whenever the enemies weapons would explode in their hands, but that was a separate issue. My use of it was degrading the enjoyment of the other players and it was dealt with out of character and very cordially.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Spa-looge. Thank you endlessly for the time and effort.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Thumbs up!

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Hurrah! Reference materials! Also +1 for the Animorph reference. Haven't seen many other readers of that series in my time.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    This guide looks like a substantial improvement over its predecessors. I approve.

    As a small bit of formatting critique though, magenta is a bit eye-searing. A less vivid color would be nice.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    As a small bit of formatting critique though, magenta is a bit eye-searing. A less vivid color would be nice.
    It's tricky—darker purple doesn't read well against blue for colorblindness. Green and orange have similar problems, unless high-contrast shades are used, which would be a lateral change from magenta. Yellow, pink, cyan, and other light colors don't work on a white background. So there's limited options.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    A note on Enlightened Spirit: it allows you to get a (replaceable!) Greater invocation earlier than you normally could. Minor benefit, but still.
    Soulcaster can also be great for clawlock if you can find your way in.
    Last edited by weckar; 2018-12-30 at 08:46 AM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    I think Nosomatic Chirurgeon is not primarily used by a Warlock for the Infinite SLAs but because it both advances your blast and invocation 4/5, AND gives you a divine spellcasting progression that can be used to fulfill other PrC prerequisites. I think you should mention that it grants a spellcasting progression.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    This is really impressive stuff, Troacctid! I'm not all the way through it yet, but you've got a lot of good analysis and discussion so far. Handbook making is hard work, so I really respect both the effort that clearly went into this and the end results of said effort!

    Someday I'm going to have to upgrade the Truenamer guide from a GitP post to a Google doc or equivalent. Maybe after next semester.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 22. All you have to do to be an instant authority is to tell us what you think of the builds on display!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Excellent work. I like the homebrew invocations too.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    A note on Enlightened Spirit: it allows you to get a (replaceable!) Greater invocation earlier than you normally could. Minor benefit, but still.
    Already mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Soulcaster can also be great for clawlock if you can find your way in.
    "Great" seems like an overly optimistic assessment, considering you normally lose 5 levels of progression before you can even get into the class. Anima mage was honestly a pretty sketchy inclusion to begin with. I'm skeptical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    I think Nosomatic Chirurgeon is not primarily used by a Warlock for the Infinite SLAs but because it both advances your blast and invocation 4/5, AND gives you a divine spellcasting progression that can be used to fulfill other PrC prerequisites. I think you should mention that it grants a spellcasting progression.
    It only grants a spellcasting progression if you don't already have one to advance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    This is really impressive stuff, Troacctid! I'm not all the way through it yet, but you've got a lot of good analysis and discussion so far. Handbook making is hard work, so I really respect both the effort that clearly went into this and the end results of said effort!

    Someday I'm going to have to upgrade the Truenamer guide from a GitP post to a Google doc or equivalent. Maybe after next semester.
    Quote Originally Posted by redking View Post
    Excellent work. I like the homebrew invocations too.
    Thanks!

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Skill Knowledge and Martial Study can both expand your list of class skills. Also, you might want to mention bloodlines with Hellfire Warlock.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2018-12-30 at 01:47 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Skill Knowledge and Martial Study can both expand your list of class skills. Also, you might want to mention bloodlines with Hellfire Warlock.
    I have a bloodline section in the works. Skill Knowledge only works with an unpopular variant rule, and if your game uses that rule, I assume you know about the accompanying feat. Martial Study is awkward because you can't really take it at 1st level (half initiator level rounds down to 0) and none of the maneuvers you could get from White Raven or Shadow Hand (the only two with class skills worth adding) are especially good for a warlock, so it's pretty underwhelming. I can add a line about it since you asked. Most likely use case is when you're already dipping a single level of an initiator class at 1st.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    You might also want to include Unseelie Fey, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, and its fey-specific charisma counterpart Beauty's Bounty. Also, great guide. Forgot to say that before.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2018-12-30 at 02:49 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    It only grants a spellcasting progression if you don't already have one to advance.
    Warlocks generally don't. Take NS instead of multiclassing if you need minor spellcasting to qualify for a PrC. It means you don't lose advancement.

    Great guide tho. Far more through and well-done than most!

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    You might also want to include Unseelie Fey
    Too DM-dependent, as its LA was never updated from the original 3.0 version. All the templates in Dragon Compendium have the same issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Faerie Mysteries Initiate
    Sure, that one's not bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    and its fey-specific charisma counterpart Beauty's Bounty. Also, great guide. Forgot to say that before.
    That one's garbage. Only applies at 1st level, so it's basically Toughness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    Warlocks generally don't. Take NS instead of multiclassing if you need minor spellcasting to qualify for a PrC. It means you don't lose advancement.
    I like to think you're advancing warlock but that's me. 🤷

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    That one's garbage. Only applies at 1st level, so it's basically Toughness.
    Whoops, misread it. I was thrown off by the retroactive thing.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2018-12-30 at 03:17 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I like to think you're advancing warlock but that's me. 🤷
    You are. And you are getting spellcasting. Warlocks get to do both. Invocations and blast are not spellcasting, and Warlock is not a spellcasting class.

    There is no text in the PrC stating that you don't get Adept spellcasting if you happen to have something else to do with the "+1 spellcasting" You get "+1 spellcasting" which Warlock text lets you use, and Adept casting if you don't have levels in a spellcasting class.
    Last edited by Grim Reader; 2018-12-30 at 03:26 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    You are. Invocations and blast are not spellcasting, and Warlock is not a spellcasting class.

    There is no text in the PrC stating that you don't get Adept spellcasting if you happen to have something else to do with the "+1 spellcasting" You get "+1 spellcasting" which Warlock text lets you use, and Adept casting if you don't have levels in a spellcasting class.
    Applying that reading consistently would result in all prestige classes turning into eldritch theurges, so I feel comfortable leaving it out.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Applying that reading consistently would result in all prestige classes turning into eldritch theurges, so I feel comfortable leaving it out.
    I... am not sure how that follows? Are we talking about the same PrC here? Nosomatic Chirurgeon. Unlike other PrCs it has this line "If you have no levels in any spellcasting class, this class grants you the spellcasting ability of the adept (DMG 107) from 1st to 4th level."

    Other PrCs do not work like that. They don't grant Adept casting.

    Warlock is not a spellcasting class, but have things they can use the "+1 level of spellcasting" advancement on, so they get to do both.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    I... am not sure how that follows? Are we talking about the same PrC here? Nosomatic Chirurgeon. Unlike other PrCs it has this line "If you have no levels in any spellcasting class, this class grants you the spellcasting ability of the adept (DMG 107) from 1st to 4th level."

    Other PrCs do not work like that. They don't grant Adept casting.

    Warlock is not a spellcasting class, but have things they can use the "+1 level of spellcasting" advancement on, so they get to do both.
    If it works that way, you could probably use it for various weirdnesses. For instance, if you take another PrC that advances spellcasting, can you advance NC and get an increase to its native spellcasting and your warlock spellcasting? It sounds like it shouldn't work, but from the wording of spellcasting advancement I think it might. Also, not all PrCs require you to advance the class which you used to qualify, so a PrC that requires spellcasting could then be used to advance your warlock. That opens up a ton of possibilities.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2018-12-30 at 03:48 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    If it works that way, you could probably use it for various weirdnesses. For instance, if you take another PrC that advances spellcasting, can you advance NC and get an increase to its native spellcasting and your warlock spellcasting? It sounds like it shouldn't work, but from the wording of spellcasting advancement I think it might. Also, not all PrCs require you to advance the class which you used to qualify, so a PrC that requires spellcasting could then be used to advance your warlock. That opens up a ton of possibilities.
    No, you can't advance NC. You can't even advance your Adept spellcasting like that.

    You cannot use another PrC that advances spellcasting to advance NC, because NC is not a spellcasting class. It doesn't have a spells per day table to advance. If you could do that, you'd be able to advance Theurge casting from another "'+1 spellcasting" (+1) class, and set up infinite loops with two theurge classes.

    You can use a PrC that advances spellcasting to advance Warlock. The Warlock class says that. Yes that opens up possibilities, but mainly what NC does is let you do that without multiclassing to get the spellcasting. Its still a bit awkward to get the +3 base Fort save without multiclassing, so its good but not fantastic.

    You can't further advance your Adept casting from +1 PrCs, because you don't actually have Adept levels, so there is no valid target for the +1s. They have to go to a class.


    EDIT: Actually, text trumphs table. Now that I think about it, I suppose you could make an argument that NC is a spellcasting class and has a spellcasting table equal to Adept 1 - 4. And that its not printed because not every NC gets it. However, it'd still by text peak at level 4. So you couldn't advance it beyond that.
    Last edited by Grim Reader; 2018-12-30 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    You can use a PrC that advances spellcasting to advance Warlock. The Warlock class says that.
    Actually, what it says is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Arcane
    Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class” as a level advancement benefit. A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the warlock’s level to determine his eldritch blast damage (treat his combined caster level as his warlock class level when looking at Table 1–1: The Warlock to determine eldritch blast damage) and his eldritch blast caster level (half his total caster level from his warlock levels and his levels in the prestige class that grant him an increased spellcasting level). A warlock also gains new invocations known at these prestige class levels as though he had gained a level in the warlock class.
    Most people would rightfully take this to mean that you can use warlock as the spellcasting class to advance with the prestige class. However, if you read it the way you're reading nosomatic chirurgeon, then nothing in the text says that you need to choose warlock as the spellcasting class to advance in order to gain the benefits—the prestige class levels stack with your warlock levels either way.

    In fact, it's actually a stronger argument than the nosomatic chirurgeon one, since the nosomatic chirurgeon argument relies on warlock not being considered a spellcasting class—an assertion that is contradicted several times in the text. Also, nosomatic chirurgeon strongly implies that the adept progression replaces the class's spellcasting ability entirely, as it instructs you to "adopt that class's spellcasting progression and spell list as the spellcasting ability of this class."

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    I suppose the memelith template could also be used for class skills, but at +2 LA that can't possibly be worth it.

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    Default Re: The Warlockopedia: A Comprehensive Warlock Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Actually, what it says is this:

    Most people would rightfully take this to mean that you can use warlock as the spellcasting class to advance with the prestige class. However, if you read it the way you're reading nosomatic chirurgeon, then nothing in the text says that you need to choose warlock as the spellcasting class to advance in order to gain the benefits—the prestige class levels stack with your warlock levels either way.

    In fact, it's actually a stronger argument than the nosomatic chirurgeon one, since the nosomatic chirurgeon argument relies on warlock not being considered a spellcasting class—an assertion that is contradicted several times in the text. Also, nosomatic chirurgeon strongly implies that the adept progression replaces the class's spellcasting ability entirely, as it instructs you to "adopt that class's spellcasting progression and spell list as the spellcasting ability of this class."
    You can apply +1s to Warlock as if it was a spellcasting class, yes. Does not make it a spellcasting class. The Warlocks class description in Complete Arcane seems pretty clear on that.

    However, I am not sure what you are trying to say beyond that, by saying that you do not have to advance Warlock with the +1s. No, if you have another spellcasting class you can advance that instead, obviously. But then you won't get the Adept casting, because you have levels in a spellcasting class.

    Are you trying to say that you can advance another spellcasting class with a +1 and still increase Warlock invocations etc by Warlock text? That is an interesting reading, and would open a can of worms.

    Its unrelated to the NS though.

    When you take level 1 - 4 in Nosomatic Chirurgeon, you get a "+1 spellcasting level" that stacks with Warlock. As if you had applied it to a spellcasting progression if you were a spellcaster. This is how prestige classes that grant +1 spellcasting advancements work.

    Then Norsomatic Chirurgeon has a separate parargraph. You check to see if you have any levels in one or more spellcasting classes, if no, you gain a level of adept casting.

    These are separate things. You are not using the +1s twice, you are doing both the things the PrC says to do. On some classes they are not mutually exclusive. Warlock among them.

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