The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

[Resileaf]

I love walking around in Morrowind, personally!

Especially during night time to watch the stars.

[Vinyadan]

Walking speed in Morrowind is indeed very slow. I think it would be fair to simply increase movement speed with a mod, especially because you cannot always run because of fatigue drain.

The Morrowind inventory interface is both better and worse than the ones in the later games. It lets you equip items directly from containers, which I love and I miss, and I find the overview easier to handle if I have many items (and it gives you weapon stats, instead of the stats you get with that weapon, as well as actual total durability). However, it forces you to click twice on everything to equip it or drop it, I don't think you can give the items a different order, and the diary is hard to use.

Also, the odd keys: jump with E, use with SPACEBAR, inventory with RMB. But I believe you can easily rebind them.

[mythmonster2]

Yeah, I downloaded a whole host of mods to make Morrowind playable for me: removing accuracy checks so I always hit, making it so running didn't drain my stamina, and even then, I upped my Athletics to 100 via console. I got a graphics mod, and I'm pretty sure I also got a mod that always gave you max points when leveling a skill, since I hated that system in Oblivion and Morrowind.

[Caelestion]

Yes, you can easily rebind keys in MW and you can use shift-click and ctrl-click I think it is instantly pick up or drop stacks of items. The journal is frightful, yes; it's one of the few things in the game that is absolutely indefensible.

[Rynjin]

The Morrowind inventory interface is both better and worse than the ones in the later games. It lets you equip items directly from containers, which I love and I miss

This is something you can do in Skyrim and I'm like 95% sure Oblivion too though.

[Vinyadan]

This is something you can do in Skyrim and I'm like 95% sure Oblivion too though.

Good to know, I'll have to look it up. When I played Oblivion, the tutorial was a complete mess (it somehow showed the wrong keys, I think it was meant for a console).

Something else that is easy to miss from later games is self-filling magicka. Morrowind is hard for wizards (lol reflects), although you can use enchanted items that recharge over time (a probably effective tactic that I generally found too boring to use). It also takes time to swap from magic to weapons, while Oblivion let you cast with your sword out. I also think that feather spells were rebalanced in Oblivion to last more and be useful.
On the other hand, magicka recharging means that many fights turn into running in circles while healing yourself.

[Keltest]

Good to know, I'll have to look it up. When I played Oblivion, the tutorial was a complete mess (it somehow showed the wrong keys, I think it was meant for a console).

Something else that is easy to miss from later games is self-filling magicka. Morrowind is hard for wizards (lol reflects), although you can use enchanted items that recharge over time (a probably effective tactic that I generally found too boring to use). It also takes time to swap from magic to weapons, while Oblivion let you cast with your sword out. I also think that feather spells were rebalanced in Oblivion to last more and be useful.
On the other hand, magicka recharging means that many fights turn into running in circles while healing yourself.

I think the problem with magic in the Elder Scrolls, but with Morrowind and Oblivion in particular, is that magicka is designed to be a finite resource pool that recovers slowly (or not at all), but spells are not designed to be able to end a given combat significantly faster or easier than with a weapon. If I shoot a fireball at a group in Oblivion, they might not even notice it until ive shot three or four at them, and by that point most of my magicka is gone, and I don't have any swording skills to fall back on as a mage.

[Resileaf]

I think the problem with magic in the Elder Scrolls, but with Morrowind and Oblivion in particular, is that magicka is designed to be a finite resource pool that recovers slowly (or not at all), but spells are not designed to be able to end a given combat significantly faster or easier than with a weapon. If I shoot a fireball at a group in Oblivion, they might not even notice it until ive shot three or four at them, and by that point most of my magicka is gone, and I don't have any swording skills to fall back on as a mage.

I'd argue that magic in Morrowind is extremely powerful and destructive. It's very easy to find scrolls that deal incredible damage and paralyze enemies for a ridiculous amount of time. It's harder to keep the spells going with your own magicka, but your playstyle is meant to be complemented by the many, many magic items you find on your quest.

[factotum]

I think the problem with magic in the Elder Scrolls, but with Morrowind and Oblivion in particular, is that magicka is designed to be a finite resource pool that recovers slowly (or not at all), but spells are not designed to be able to end a given combat significantly faster or easier than with a weapon.

I think the problem may be that magic was considered absurdly overpowered in Daggerfall (never got far enough into that game to find out why, mind you), and Bethesda has been overcompensating for that. They took that to ridiculous levels in Morrowind, where you didn't naturally regenerate magicka at all!

[Imbalance]

The journal is frightful, yes; it's one of the few things in the game that is absolutely indefensible.

I can defend it. The journal is pretty much exactly how I would write things down in a notebook in the old days, with the added benefit of a topic index and without the hand cramps. No, it's not searchable, which I guess is the majority complaint, but if you finish each quest before starting a new one there is no need to look back over entries beyond a sense of accomplishment and nostalgia. The worst thing for me was relying on it too much, when NPC's would sometimes tell more than the journal recorded, or if the directions to a place were erroneous. By the "end" of my fullest playthrough, I had over 900 pages, iirc, and only a few unfinished(-able) quests.

[Imbalance]

I think the problem with magic in the Elder Scrolls, but with Morrowind and Oblivion in particular, is that magicka is designed to be a finite resource pool that recovers slowly (or not at all), but spells are not designed to be able to end a given combat significantly faster or easier than with a weapon. If I shoot a fireball at a group in Oblivion, they might not even notice it until ive shot three or four at them, and by that point most of my magicka is gone, and I don't have any swording skills to fall back on as a mage.

Yes, but weapons and armor in those games were finite, too, in that their effectiveness declined with condition to the point of the item's destruction. To me, Skyrim's spells are meant to hit harder because nothing ever breaks.

[Keltest]

Yes, but weapons and armor in those games were finite, too, in that their effectiveness declined with condition to the point of the item's destruction. To me, Skyrim's spells are meant to hit harder because nothing ever breaks.

True, but especially low quality weapons and armor were common enough that you could simply replace them when they broke with found loot, while magicka potions weren't especially common unless you killed a mage.

[Aeson]

I think the problem may be that magic was considered absurdly overpowered in Daggerfall (never got far enough into that game to find out why, mind you), and Bethesda has been overcompensating for that. They took that to ridiculous levels in Morrowind, where you didn't naturally regenerate magicka at all!

Personally, I'm very much of the opinion that the problem with Morrowind spellcasting is far more that the magicka pools are too small relative to typical spell costs given what the spells actually do than that magicka doesn't regenerate naturally - a Standard Restore Magicka potion's fairly cheap and probably provides about as much magicka as you really need from a potion. Spells like Fire Bite are not that bad for damage, but if your character only has ~50 intelligence you can only cast it ~8 times before you need to drink a potion or rest, unless you took at least one of a race and a birthsign with Fortified Maximum Magicka (preferably both, especially if you go for the weaker magicka bonuses of the Breton race and the Mage birthsign rather than the stronger magicka bonuses of the Altmer/High Elf race and the Apprentice or preferably Atronach birthsigns), and Tribunal / Nine Divines protect you if you actually want to use ranged damage spells like Fireball instead of the significantly more efficient melee damage spells.

The only really significant issue I see with the lack of continuous magicka regeneration is that it made Stunted Magicka into a bit of a joke, as far as being a 'drawback' for the Atronach birthsign goes. If the numbers were better balanced for direct-damage combat spellcasting, mages being reliant on potions to recover magicka wouldn't be much - if any - worse than archers being reliant on their ammunition stock; as it is, magicka-based spellcasting's still fairly useful if you stick to things that you only need to cast occasionally in battle, like creature or weapon summons (especially if you create custom spells with durations more appropriate to the length of a typical combat encounter than the minute typical of the standard spells).

[factotum]

Personally, I'm very much of the opinion that the problem with Morrowind spellcasting is far more that the magicka pools are too small relative to typical spell costs given what the spells actually do than that magicka doesn't regenerate naturally - a Standard Restore Magicka potion's fairly cheap and probably provides about as much magicka as you really need from a potion.

Well, the other issue in Morrowind is that all the higher-level critters seem to be immune or highly resistant to magic. Like I say, I think that was a direct over-reaction to magic being overpowered in Daggerfall--they improved matters somewhat for magic-users in Oblivion, and more so in Skyrim, although even there any caster will struggle to out-damage a weapon user of the same level. It's a shame, because the whole point of casters is that they trade defence and survivability for super damage, and that just doesn't happen in recent ES games.

[Morty]

I remember trying to play a magic-focused character in an unmodded Morrowind. It was not fun. In this short-lived run I installed Morrowind Rebirth, which among other things rebalances spells so they're more manageable in terms of mana costs and success rate. It seemed to work well enough. My only magic skill on the character I tried to play long-term was Conjuration, but I made others to try it out. Then trying to level alchemy was the straw that broke the camel's back. Go figure.

[veti]

I'm of the opinion that the difficulties of playing a pure caster in Morrowind - and Oblivion and Skyrim, if it comes to it - are a feature, not a flaw. Tamrielic magic is simply not well suited to that way of doing things.

In all three games, magic is best used to complement physical skills, rather than to substitute for them.

[Caelestion]

I can defend it. The journal is pretty much exactly how I would write things down in a notebook in the old days, with the added benefit of a topic index and without the hand cramps. No, it's not searchable, which I guess is the majority complaint, but if you finish each quest before starting a new one there is no need to look back over entries beyond a sense of accomplishment and nostalgia. The worst thing for me was relying on it too much, when NPC's would sometimes tell more than the journal recorded, or if the directions to a place were erroneous. By the "end" of my fullest playthrough, I had over 900 pages, iirc, and only a few unfinished(-able) quests.

Well, yes, it is exactly how one would write things down in a notebook. It makes for interesting reading, but it's almost useless in actually tracking down quests you forgot about or refreshing your memory after a period of downtime.

[Morty]

I'm of the opinion that the difficulties of playing a pure caster in Morrowind - and Oblivion and Skyrim, if it comes to it - are a feature, not a flaw. Tamrielic magic is simply not well suited to that way of doing things.

In all three games, magic is best used to complement physical skills, rather than to substitute for them.

Then it would be good for the games to communicate that. If they're going to claim that playing a "pure" mage or warrior is as good as playing a character combining all sorts of skills, they had better follow through. You could argue Skyrim does, since you don't pick your skills and attributes at the start.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Well, yes, it is exactly how one would write things down in a notebook. It makes for interesting reading, but it's almost useless in actually tracking down quests you forgot about or refreshing your memory after a period of downtime.

Very much this. Also, unlike a real book, I can't bookmark pages I come back to frequently, underline or highlight material that is important, cross out info that turned out to be incorrect, or arrange the data in a form more useful to me because I'm not the one writing it.

[Aeson]

Well, the other issue in Morrowind is that all the higher-level critters seem to be immune or highly resistant to magic. Like I say, I think that was a direct over-reaction to magic being overpowered in Daggerfall--they improved matters somewhat for magic-users in Oblivion, and more so in Skyrim, although even there any caster will struggle to out-damage a weapon user of the same level. It's a shame, because the whole point of casters is that they trade defence and survivability for super damage, and that just doesn't happen in recent ES games.

The only creatures in Morrowind with significant resistance or outright immunity to all magical damage types that I can think of are the Advanced Steam Centurions (100% Resistance to Fire/Frost/Shock/Poison/Paralysis, 50% Resistance to Magicka) and Almalexia in Tribunal, but you'd be a fool to fight the Advanced Steam Centurions with magic anyways since they have a rather obscene 60% Spell Reflection as well. I'm pretty sure that everything else has at least one magical damage type (fire, frost, shock, poison, generic magic) to which it either lacks any significant resistance or is vulnerable, so using offensive magic at higher levels is more a matter of knowing which spells are appropriate for what targets, and if you really want to use a specific element anyways despite it being inappropriate for the target you can almost always use a Weakness to X spell to make the damage type you want to use effective. A bigger issue for direct-damage spell effectiveness at higher levels isn't actually resistance or immunity to the damage types but rather that a lot of the creatures have 20% Spell Reflection (all generic Ash Ghouls and Ash Slaves, most named Ash Ghouls, most Atronachs, most Dremora, all Golden Saints, all Winged Twilights, all Dwarven Spectres, possibly some other things) and a handful have more than that (the aforementioned Advanced Steam Centurions, one of the named Ash Ghouls, and I think some things in Bloodmoon).

[Hagashager]

I think the problem may be that magic was considered absurdly overpowered in Daggerfall (never got far enough into that game to find out why, mind you), and Bethesda has been overcompensating for that. They took that to ridiculous levels in Morrowind, where you didn't naturally regenerate magicka at all!

Magicka didn't regenerate in Daggerfall either. The magic in Daggerfall wasn't so much overpowered as it was just flat-out broken. You could give your character 100% weakness to magicka then 100% spell-absorption. This made it possible to do things like craft a 100 meter fireball that did 100 damage. You would be in the spell's blast radius and thus absorb the spell, which would recharge your magicka immediately allowing you to spam your mini-nuke repeatedly.

I doubt the broken design of Daggerfall is what keeps Bethesda from designing a meaningful magic system. With Morrowind I found that you eventually default to a battle-mage build. You will almost always end the game in pointy, black armor with a scary longsword and a fireball spell handy. This is because anything else in the game isn't just sub-optimal, it's impratical to the point of tedium.

Armor classes outside of Deadric and glass are, at best, in the lower double-digits while the highest armors jump to the 100 mark. Clothing either has 10 enchantment points or 200, but never in between. Only a very specific set of clothing has useful enchantment points.

Utility spells last for mere seconds. Truly, as in ten or so seconds. If you buy the spell effect and make your own utility spell the magicka cost is completely unreasonable.

Morrowind's magic and meta-rules relating to magic are just *miserly*.

Unless, of course, you use the pointy black armor, the glowing blue fire-sword the vomit-yellow robes and fore-go any role-playing that isn't some sorcerous dark-knight, fashion-reject.

In my last playthrough I installed a mod that set all clothing to 200 enchantment points and another mod that doubled the AC of all non-deadric and glass generic armors. This made it possible to make the character look the way I envisioned him looking, using gear that actually fit his build.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Morrowind's magic and meta-rules relating to magic are just *miserly*.

Unless, of course, you use the pointy black armor, the glowing blue fire-sword the vomit-yellow robes and fore-go any role-playing that isn't some sorcerous dark-knight, fashion-reject.

In my last playthrough I installed a mod that set all clothing to 200 enchantment points and another mod that doubled the AC of all non-deadric and glass generic armors. This made it possible to make the character look the way I envisioned him looking, using gear that actually fit his build.

These are the things I miss by only playing the game once. I just threw bits and pieces of whatever the best gear I could find happened to be. I think I stuck with the same armor weight for all the pieces...I think. Although if the blue fire sword is Hopesfire I did end up switching between that and Trueflame whenever the one I was using ran out of charge.

[Eldan]

Yeah, I remember that the one time I really played Morrowind for a long, long time (like, years, taking a character up to like level 60), I started as wanting to be a wizard and ended up as an armored swordsman with Trueflame and Hopesfire who mainly used magic to walk on water and fly while throwing the occasional ranged spell to soften up tough enemies.

[Morty]

Magicka didn't regenerate in Daggerfall either. The magic in Daggerfall wasn't so much overpowered as it was just flat-out broken. You could give your character 100% weakness to magicka then 100% spell-absorption. This made it possible to do things like craft a 100 meter fireball that did 100 damage. You would be in the spell's blast radius and thus absorb the spell, which would recharge your magicka immediately allowing you to spam your mini-nuke repeatedly.

Meanwhile, if you just tried to play a magic-focused character early on without resorting to exploits (if only because you didn't know them), it was even more miserable than Morrowind.

And yes, defaulting to a heavily-armored battlemage was very common in Morrowind. I grit my teeth and stuck to a lightly-armored mostly-mage, but heavens, was it an uphill battle. Maybe Morrowind Rebirth helps with that.

[Spore]

And yes, defaulting to a heavily-armored battlemage was very common in Morrowind. I grit my teeth and stuck to a lightly-armored mostly-mage, but heavens, was it an uphill battle. Maybe Morrowind Rebirth helps with that.

I mean it's basically what all game points you towards. Armor reduces damage, you can wear robes over armor, and you have a separate button for magic (I remember vividly Oblivion being so proud you could dual wield), and with Mysticism teleports being a standin for fast travel, elemental spells being a good ranged option (and offering more damage types), there was nothing not to love about the heavy-armored dunmer (because of race bias) battlemage.

People always moan about how you can do too much in Skyrim with a single character not suited for the task. But no one remembers their high level Nerevarine being a Blade, Archmage, Master of the Fighter's Guild, Tribesleader of several tribes, Blade, House supporter of one or several houses and assassin of the Morag Tong.

Granted you could not join the highest ranks of everything but I remember my Vampire* Dunmer Battlemage Acrobat (I loved Acrobatics and Athletics) being Archmage, Fighter guild champion, Blade and House Redoran vassal.
_______________
*I just joined briefly before finding out the choice basically makes 80% of the base game unplayable.

[Keltest]

I mean it's basically what all game points you towards. Armor reduces damage, you can wear robes over armor, and you have a separate button for magic (I remember vividly Oblivion being so proud you could dual wield), and with Mysticism teleports being a standin for fast travel, elemental spells being a good ranged option (and offering more damage types), there was nothing not to love about the heavy-armored dunmer (because of race bias) battlemage.

People always moan about how you can do too much in Skyrim with a single character not suited for the task. But no one remembers their high level Nerevarine being a Blade, Archmage, Master of the Fighter's Guild, Tribesleader of several tribes, Blade, House supporter of one or several houses and assassin of the Morag Tong.

Granted you could not join the highest ranks of everything but I remember my Vampire* Dunmer Battlemage Acrobat (I loved Acrobatics and Athletics) being Archmage, Fighter guild champion, Blade and House Redoran vassal.
_______________
*I just joined briefly before finding out the choice basically makes 80% of the base game unplayable.

Sure, but in Morrowind, unlike in Skyrim, you have to actually be good at all of those things before you can become guildmaster or the equivalent. You literally could not progress in the quest line if you didn't have a certain number of requisite skills above a certain level. In Skyrim, you have to be able to cast approximately three spells, total, over the course of the College quest to become Archmage, and one of them is the default flames spell that everyone starts the game with.

[Morty]

I mean it's basically what all game points you towards. Armor reduces damage, you can wear robes over armor, and you have a separate button for magic (I remember vividly Oblivion being so proud you could dual wield), and with Mysticism teleports being a standin for fast travel, elemental spells being a good ranged option (and offering more damage types), there was nothing not to love about the heavy-armored dunmer (because of race bias) battlemage.

The game presents you with a wide array of skills and classes to pick from. It's not a good look if it ends up pushing you towards a particular selection. I wouldn't actually mind if the TES series dropped the "you can play whatever you want" facade that's never actually panned out, but there still needs to be real choice. And for all that it simplifies things, Skyrim is a lot better balanced than Morrowind.

[Eldan]

Sure, but in Morrowind, unlike in Skyrim, you have to actually be good at all of those things before you can become guildmaster or the equivalent. You literally could not progress in the quest line if you didn't have a certain number of requisite skills above a certain level. In Skyrim, you have to be able to cast approximately three spells, total, over the course of the College quest to become Archmage, and one of them is the default flames spell that everyone starts the game with.

Yeah, that. Sure, you could be omnicompetent in Morrowind too, because you're (maybe) Nerevar and have a lot of fate on your side because you are a Hero, but you had to put in the work first. Not cast your basic healing and fire spell once and then be done with magic.

[Rodin]

I still want my Elder Scrolls game that tailors the main quest to your class. Playing a Thief? You get an origin story befitting a Thief and you get involved with the apocalypse-of-the-week by how it's causing trouble for the Thieves' Guild. The Thieves' Guild quests are deep enough to take you through the whole game, and you only become Guildmaster right before you tackle the final boss. Meanwhile, the other Guilds are simply not accessible. If you want to do those, then you start a new character as a Fighter, or a Mage, or something tailored to the game you're in like Imperial Soldier or Nordic Loyalist.

I know, I know. Never gonna happen. But damn it would be cool.

[mythmonster2]

I still want my Elder Scrolls game that tailors the main quest to your class. Playing a Thief? You get an origin story befitting a Thief and you get involved with the apocalypse-of-the-week by how it's causing trouble for the Thieves' Guild. The Thieves' Guild quests are deep enough to take you through the whole game, and you only become Guildmaster right before you tackle the final boss. Meanwhile, the other Guilds are simply not accessible. If you want to do those, then you start a new character as a Fighter, or a Mage, or something tailored to the game you're in like Imperial Soldier or Nordic Loyalist.

I know, I know. Never gonna happen. But damn it would be cool.

My problem with this kind of idea is, what if I'm running a paladin character who uses weapons and heavy armor, while also using restoration magic and wards? Do I have to choose between the Fighter's Guild and the Mage's Guild? I've never liked ideas that force you to go into one of the three paths at the expense of the others. The flexibility of Skyrim has always been one of my favorite parts of it.