RPG Suggestion -- like Mount and Blade?

[rs2excelsior]

Hello all! Recently I've gotten an itch for a particular type of game I'd like to try, and I'm curious if the playground collective knows of anything along those lines.

The best way I can describe what I'm looking for is something along the lines of Mount and Blade. You have your own player character, and your story centers around them, but you also have a small-ish band of followers who actively participate in combat situations. When combat occurs, it's a hybrid between traditional RPG combat and small-scale tactical wargaming. Sure, you could do something along those lines in 3.5/PF with the Leadership feat, but for one combat drags to a crawl with large numbers of characters, and for another most of your followers are useless in combat since they're so far below your level. Ideally, I'm imagining a system where the "followers" are handled in small groups, maybe 5-10 strong each, to help streamline things, while the PC leaders and maybe certain powerful followers are handled individually in a bit more detail.

So this is my "wishlist," I guess:
1) Ability to lead small-to-medium bands of soldiers in combat, ideally handling subordinate troops in groups
2) PCs are strong/heroic enough to influence things, but not so much as to invalidate their followers
3) Reasonably realistic combat resolution
4) Fantasy elements optional
5) It's not a big deal if the system is actually an unplayable mess in practice, I'm not sure I'd ever get to actually play something like this, so just being able to see it would be nice.

So, does anyone know of anything along these lines, or am I chasing a wild goose?

[Berenger]

A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying from Green Ronin can handle various personal combat styles typical for Mount & Blade (in a more "realistic" / granular way than D&D), combat with smallish groups of followers (cut down standard unit sizes from 100 for infantry and 20 for cavalry to whatever you want and adjust costs accordingly) and the conquest / administration of fiefs.

The best min-maxed fighter our group had was (with some luck and the expenditure of some narrative resources) able to fight a unit of 100 wildling raiders on his own and kill enough of them to scatter the rest before bleeding out from wounds, if this is the power level you imagine.

[The Jack]

Literally any normal game but with either houserules for mass combat in certain sections or handwaving it as whatever narratively makes sense.

I at first I would just DM who wins in the background without rolling dice. But when if you want a system for it I'd just group weaker characters together into units and treat them as one monster, pooling their health pools together. when they do damage I'd roll a bunch of dice to see how many attackers hit and thus how many damage dice they have. When they take damage I'd divide that to get dice and use those dice to see how many men drop.

[Knaight]

This is actually one of the cases where old school D&D works pretty okay, as the numbers work out. If you're willing to have a bit less detail on the troops though give Reign a look. It has some decently sophisticated mook rules which still play fast, represent troops of different qualities, and leaves the focus on the more major characters.

[Blackhawk748]

I'll just toss Savage Worlds in here. The Mass Combat system works well and if you want to just hang with your squad the Extras rules are pretty solid as well.

[RazorChain]

Gurps mass combat springs to mind

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/masscombat/

[Kiero]

This is actually one of the cases where old school D&D works pretty okay, as the numbers work out.

Yep, I played a 100-participant skirmish (PCs and their retinues against a much larger band of raiders) in ACKS (derived from B/X D&D) and it took less time than a 10-participant combat in D&D4e, with a lot more happening. It also has mass combat rules in the Domains@War supplement, which has skirmish and battle scale, going from tens to thousands per side.

[Erulasto]

So, for Warhammer Fantasy RPG...the second edition...I often include small-unit combat (or bigger) and all I do is write up a generic stat block for the unit in question using standard character creation rules. When the unit engages in combat with another unit, I just do the rolls as if it were a singular character and then I use the difference between damage dealt (after armour and toughness bonus) and the target units wound score to determine how many got injured or killed.

It's really simple, but it does the trick for me.

But I'm a huge fan of WHFRP 2e.

[Aneurin]

The Warhammer 40k RPGs published by Fantasy Flight Games handle this in a couple of different ways depending on the RPG.

Rogue Trader has some tolerably functional mass combat rules printed in the Battle Fleet Koronus supplement, but they're more targeted at directing the clash of armies though they can be scaled down. Deathwatch and Black Crusade have the horde rules, which are... kinda dull, in all honesty, though I guess they are a simple and efficient way of resolving a clash between NPC forces.

Only War while not really being about leadership, does have the Formation rules at the back of the Enemies of the Imperium supplement which are what I personally use for all skirmishes in any of the 40k systems now. They're flexible, fast and functional and they give options - which is great if a PC is leading one of them.


If you're unfamiliar with the RPGs, here's a quick summary;

• Dark Heresy 1e is a game about serving the Imperial Inquisition and rooting out the enemies of the Imperium, no matter what form they take.
• Rogue Trader is a game about, well, the East India Company In Space. Or maybe 40k Star Trek. You have a ship, tens of thousands of loyal crew, a dynasty and your mission is to boldly go where no man has gone before and loot the hell out of everything.
• Deathwatch is about Space Marines being Space Marines, really. A more militant version of Dark Heresy in some respects.
• Black Crusade has the PCs as members of a Chaos warband, squabbling for influence and power as they try to catch the Gods' attention and destroy the Imperium.
• Only War is a bit of an odd duck in the line since, instead of playing the movers and shakers, you're playing the moved and the shook. The PCs are members of the Imperial Guard, and, being grunts, get sent to fight and die against the enemies of the Imperium.
• Dark Heresy 2e is much the same as 1e in theme, but the PCs are a bit more... competent. It has the same updated ruleset that was introduced in Black Crusade.

The line uses a d100 base, much like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1e, 2e and 4e.

[Martin Greywolf]

First thing that comes to mind is Planet Mercenary - the assumption is that every player is an officer in a merc company and has a small fire team. You would only need to make very few tweaks (mostly concerning how commanding takes away one of your actions) to use more fireteams and be done with it. It also has reputation stuff baked into it. Only problem for you is that it's sci-fi, but the system itself could be ripped out of it and repurposed.

Personally, if I was doing this, I'd go for FATE, mostly because you don't need a ton of rules and a lot of stuff can be ad hoc'd on the spot. FATE fractals already allow you to merge several people into one mechanical entity, and aspects cover many things like formation and so forth. Maybe add things like permanent +1 for high ground when it applies and you're good to go. Mechanical depth here depends a lot on how knowledgeable your players are - if someone just slaps a number on a bunch of blokes, nothing interesting happens, you have to give them a Testudo stunt (double the effect of total defense vs projectiles) and then realize that you can't use it and Phalanx stunt (+2 to melee combat) at the same time.

[rs2excelsior]

Thanks, there are some good suggestions here. I'll definitely check into a few (Planet Mercenary in particular sounds very much like a game I've been wanting to try). In general I find most RPG mass combat systems (like D&D) to be a bit clunky, but they would work in a pinch. Treating a mass of troops exactly like a single character but on a different scale just doesn't give the feel I'l going for, if you know what I mean?

Still, thanks all, I definitely have some things to look into!

[Kiero]

Thanks, there are some good suggestions here. I'll definitely check into a few (Planet Mercenary in particular sounds very much like a game I've been wanting to try). In general I find most RPG mass combat systems (like D&D) to be a bit clunky, but they would work in a pinch. Treating a mass of troops exactly like a single character but on a different scale just doesn't give the feel I'l going for, if you know what I mean?

Still, thanks all, I definitely have some things to look into!

I mentioned Domains@War for ACKS because it doesn't do that. It could be played as a standalone wargame.