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2019-01-26, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-26, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-27, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Reviews of Kill Team Arena are starting to drop
huh, not quite what I was expecting.
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2019-01-27, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Durham, UK
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Kill team Arena looks interesting. Not a thing I'm at all interested in playing myself, but I'm curious to see how it develops. Definitely fits into my theory of how GW is wanting competitive play to develop towards smaller scale systems that can be a more controlled experience: assuming Arena proves to actually be a vaguely balanced experience it is a much more viable proposition for tournaments that can complete in a day. The strictly symmetrical set up and rules around kill team selection sound like a good prospect for competitive gaming which is more balanced than base 40k, so I wish it well!
I feel the pricing might be a barrier though: needing to have one pack for every two players is a significant cost. Presumably the hope is for interested players to pick copies up themselves and bring them along to tournaments, rather than it all being on the TO, but for what you get £55 seems quite steep.
ION, played the second session of the narrative escalation game I'm participating in. Two games, 1000 points, my Sisters remain undefeated.
Game 1 was against the same Nids player as last time: his army remains solely close combat, and I was lucky enough that the first turn charges he got weren't especially effective, primarily due to his Broodlord getting overwatched to death when it double-charged my Penitent Engine and Immolator, and having a bubble within which all my Sisters had a 4+ invulnerable save. Sufficient close range firepower basically had him table at end of my turn 2.
Second game was against Death Guard: much closer, I won due to being more mobile so reaching the objectives first. It was a scenario that awarded points at the end of each turn, so by turn 5 I had accrued an unassailable lead. Struggled against his armour though!
Suspect I'll sub in a knight next time... 1250 points seems a reasonable point to do so.Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-01-27, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Welp, here we go again.
I'm getting back into 40k after a couple year's hiatus. It started with just kill team, but I kept browsing fluff and army guides, and I finally picked up some rules last night. Of course, there's some sticker shock there, as aside from 2 codexes (Space Wolves and Necrons) and the rulebook, there's also these newfangled indexes and those Ancient Chapter Approved things have made a comeback. Right now, all I have is Index: Imperium I (Don't worry, I did my research. The unit that really sold me on 8th is index exclusive), but I'll be picking up the codexes and rulebook over the next few months. I have to ask, though: It looks like I'll need Chapter Approved 2018 for the most up to date point values, but is the previous volume necessary for Space Wolves and Necrons?
Edit: Preliminary 750 point list obviously innacurate due to using the index, but I thought I'd submit it for appraisal. The bikers are kind of the centerpiece of the list (They're what drew me back), but the troops are just what I thought would go well with them. I'm also not 100% sure what wargear to use for the bikers. Should I keep them cheap with Chainswords, or give them some extra durability with storm shields?
Patrol Detachment (Space Wolves)
HQ: Wolf Lord on Bike -125 points
-Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter
Troops: 6 Grey Hunters -219 points
-Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol
-Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-plasma
-Razorback with Twin Assault Cannons
6 Grey Hunters -219 points
-Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol
-Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-plasma
-Razorback with Twin Assault Cannons
Elites: 5 Wolf Guard Bikers -180 points
-Storm Bolters
Total: 743 pointsLast edited by Squark; 2019-01-27 at 04:22 PM.
Steam ID: The Great Squark
3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000
Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2019-01-27, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
The price point on Arena has me write it off immediately. That is way too much money for what I'm getting in return, which is a genral problem I have with GW in general. Yes your minis are nice, but your price point is way to high for how many I have to buy, which is why I use other minis for the majority of my forces.
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2019-01-27, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- Durham, UK
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
You won’t need 2017: both Necrons and Space Wolves had their codexes released in 2018, so they weren’t included in the 2017 edition. I’m not actually sure there’ll be any updated points values for them in 2018 either: GW has stupid lead times on printing, so they might be too recent.
In any case, I wouldn’t recommend Chapter Approved of any year if the only thing your after is points values. By all rights they should be freely available, and there are other means of getting them. I’d certainly consider CA for the other content, missions and battle zones for example, but it isn’t a necessary product.
Edit:
The price point on Arena has me write it off immediately. That is way too much money for what I'm getting in return, which is a genral problem I have with GW in general. Yes your minis are nice, but your price point is way to high for how many I have to buy, which is why I use other minis for the majority of my forces.Last edited by Avaris; 2019-01-27 at 05:36 PM.
Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-01-27, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Indiana
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
So the doubles tournament I hosted was yesterday. Dark Eldar and Imperial Knights were a really popular combo for some reason, but the winner was Orks backed by a Russ Spearhead.
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2019-01-27, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Its too much for what you're getting. Starter Sets for 40k are at a similat price point so they're competing with themselves, not to mention the fact that if I want to do Kill Team I can just buy a box or two and go play Heralds of Ruin Kill Team, and the rules for that are free.
Basically, cut the price in half and we'll talk.
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2019-01-27, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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- Lima, Peru
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
The rules for everything are free. unless TOs / Store Owners want to stick their heads in the ground and pretend otherwise, but thats not healthy for business. You work around that, not pretend it doesnt exist.
Arena is really underwhelming, but so have been most Kill Team releases: the boxed sets, commanders and now this.
On related news, second round of our 3-week league is underway. Heroclix maps make surprisingly good mats for Kill Team and help a lot with noting down terrain, special locations, etc.
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2019-01-27, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Canada
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
It's easy enough to find the point changes from Chapter Approved 2018 online. I wouldn't buy it it that's all you are after. Chapter approved also put in all the point changes from 2017, so you only need the one. You do need the Codex though.
Anyways, I would suggest picking up Power Fists in each squad. The Space Wolf bonus is +1 to hit, so it makes Power Fists actually pretty decent.
In other news today was my tournament! And to start I didn't get to play because my alarm didn't go off!
Spoiler: Motorola rantThese phones have the worst default features. It's loud, I have to manually turn off the beeping (very loud beeping) for every single app for notifications. I have to delete each timer before I can use the next. And for some stupid reason the default alarm only runs from Monday to Friday. So it didn't go off, I didn't get to play. Stupid phone, and stupid me for not catching that at 1:00 in the morning.
So I got replaced by what I think was a Deathwatch player, but might have just been Space Marines. His stuff wasn't painted. But I did get a game in (it was also open gaming) and got to watch the tournament.
Round 1:
(Tyranids vs Guilliman) = Guilliman victory!
Apparently the Tyranid player had some awful rolls, being needing to fight twice and shoot twice to kill a single squad of Hellblasters and a Dreadnaught respectively. And then to Smite down Guilliman he rolled double 1s with his Neurothrope into double 2s. Still a close game, and if he took Recon instead of Big Game Hunter he would've won.
(Iron Hands/Grey Knights vs Sisters of Battle) = Sisters of Battle victory! The Grey Knight's luck finally ran out I guess.
(Drukhari vs Deathwatch?) = Deathwatch victory! No idea what happened here.
(Thousand Sons vs Ultramarines) = Thousand Sons Victory! Guess what happened.
Round 2:
(Guilliman vs Deathwatch?): The Deathwatch player had a lot of bikes. He got toasted.
(Thousand Sons vs Sisters of Battle): Sisters of Battle are a hard counter to Thousand Sons with that relic. Which of course he took. And he was rolling hot for his Denies. The Thousand Sons player didn't get off a single power turn 2.
Round 3:
(Sisters of Battle vs Guilliman): Guilliman won. The Sisters player misunderstood Kingslayer, and selected it against Guilliman thinking it was every 2 wounds, not every 4 wounds. He also put one Pentient Engine in the corner to collect Recon points instead of a 5 man sister squad. So Guilliman smashed him. He lost all his Hellblasters, but still had all of his Dreadnaughts and Guilliman killing stuff.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-01-28, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
So, Straya Day Weekend happened, so 140 players went down to a big shed in Canberra.
Honourable Mentions
Spoiler: T'au EmpireT'au, Battalion
Fireblade
(W) Coldstar; Missile Pods (x3), ATS
Strike Team (x10)
Strike Team (x10)
Strike Team (x5)
Riptide; Heavy Bust Cannon, SMS, ATS, Target Lock
Riptide; Heavy Bust Cannon, SMS, ATS, Target Lock
Shield Drones (x7)
Shield Drones (x6)
Shield Drones (x6)
Broadsides (x3); HYMP, SMS, ATS
T'au, Battalion
Darkstrider
Shadowsun
Strike Team (x5)
Strike Team (x5)
Strike Team (x5)
Sa'cea, Vanguard
Ethereal
Coldstar; Missile Pods (x3), ATS
Firesight Marksman
Firesight Marksman
Firesight Marksman
Seems legit. ITC is weird like that.
Spoiler: Imperium (Catachan)Cadian, Spearhead
(W) Creed
Master of Ordnance
Heavy Weapons Team (x3); Mortars
Heavy Weapons Team (x3); Mortars
Heavy Weapons Team (x3); Mortars
Catachan, Brigade
Company Commander; Power Sword
Company Commander; Boltgun, Power Sword
Straken
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Power Sword
Platoon Commander; Boltgun, Power Sword
Platoon Commander; Boltgun, Power Sword
Priest
Scout Sentinel; Plasma Cannon
Scout Sentinel; Plasma Cannon
Scout Sentinel; Plasma Cannon
Basilisk; Heavy Bolter
Manticore; Heavy Bolter
Manticore; Heavy Bolter
Krast
Knight Castellan
Sure thing.
Spoiler: Chaos (Death Guard)Death Guard, Spearhead
(W) Daemon Prince with Wings; Sappurating Plate
Foetid Bloat-Drone; Spitters & Probe
Foetid Bloat-Drone; Spitters & Probe
Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought; Butcher Cannon Arrays
Plagueburst Crawler
Plagueburst Crawler
SHAD
Mortarion
SHAD
Magnus the Red
Spoiler: T'au EmpireT'au, Battalion
Shadowsun
Darkstrider
Ethereal
Strike Team (x5)
Strike Team (x5)
Strike Team (x5)
Riptide; Heavy Bust Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, Velocity Tracker Weird.
Shield Drones (x8)
Shield Drones (x8)
Shield Drones (x6)
Broadsides (x3), HYMP (x6), SMS (x6), ATS
T'au, Battalion
Fireblade
Coldstar; Burst Cannon, HOBC, Missile Pod, ATS
Strike Team (x12)
Strike Team (x12)
Strike Team (x5)
T'au, Outrider
Fireblade
Dahyek Grekh This is the dude from Blackstone Fortress.
Pathfinders (x9); x3 Ion Rifles, x5 Markerlights, Pulse Accelerator Drone
Pathfinders (x9); x3 Ion Rifles, x5 Markerlights, Pulse Accelerator Drone
Pathfinders (x8); x3 Ion Rifles, x5 Markerlights, Pulse Accelerator Drone
I'm so confused. But that's ITC for you.
Y'all ready for this...
Spoiler: Imperium (Adeptus Ministorum)Bloody Rose, Brigade
(W) Canoness; Storm Bolter, Power Maul
Canoness; Storm Bolter, Power Sword
Missionary
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Arco-Flagellants (x6)
Celestians (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Power Maul
Celestians (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Storm Bolter & Power Maul
Dialogus
Dominions (x5); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Dominions (x5); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Dominions (x5); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Bolter & Chainsword
Retributors (x5); Heavy Bolters (x4); Boltgun & Chainsword
Retributors (x5); Heavy Bolters (x4); Boltgun & Chainsword
Retributors (x5); Heavy Bolters (x4); Boltgun & Chainsword
Sororitas Rhino; Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm Bolters (x2)
Sororitas Rhino; Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm Bolters (x2)
Sororitas Rhino; Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm Bolters (x2)
Ebon Chalice, Supreme Command
Celestine
Canoness; Storm Bolter, Power Maul
Missionary
Imagifier Hahahahahaha. Index/2 doesn't invalidate Index/1.
Blood Angels, Supreme Command
Librarian Dreadnought
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Tycho the Lost wat
Cue people thinking that Sororitas Storm Bolters aren't even good. Then again, if you know the meta is Fearless hordes, what's better than 9 Point chicks with Storm Bolters?
Spoiler: OrksEvil Sunz, Battalion
(W) Warboss; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig
Big Mek; Kustom Force Field
Slugga Boyz (x10); Tankbusta Bombs
Slugga Boyz (x10); Tankbusta Bombs
Slugga Boyz (x10); Tankbusta Bombs
Evil Sunz, Battalion
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Slugga Boyz (x28); Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Big Choppa
Slugga Boyz (x28); Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Big Choppa
Slugga Boyz (x28); Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Big Choppa
Bad Moons, Battalion
Warboss; Shoota, Big Choppa, Attack Squig
Big Mek; Kustom Force Field
Gretchin (x30)
Gretchin (x30)
Gretchin (x30)
Lootas (x15)
Lootas (x10)
inb4 Ork player; "I'm too good to use Grot Shields. #NotMyOrks."
Spoiler: 8. Imperium (Mars)Krast, Super-Heavies
Armiger Warglaive; Heavy Stubber
Armiger Warglaive; Heavy Stubber
(C) Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubbers (x2), Ironstorm Missile Pod, RFBC
Mars, Battalion
Belisarius Cawl
(W) Tech-Priest Enginseer
Skitarii Rangers (x5)
Skitarii Vanguard (x5)
Kataphron Destroyers (x3); Cognis Flamers (x3), Plasma Culverins (x3)
Cybernetica Datasmith; Gamma Pistol, Power Fist
Kastelan Robots (x2); Heavy Phosphor Blasters (x6)
Onager Dunecrawler; Cognis Heavy Stubbers (x2), Neutron Laser, Broad-Spectrum Data-Tether
Onager Dunecrawler; Cognis Heavy Stubbers (x2), Neutron Laser, Broad-Spectrum Data-Tether
Assassins, Vanguard
Callidus
Culexus
Culexus
Spoiler: 8. Chaos Daemons (Nurgle Daemons)Daemons, Battalion
(W) Bloodmaster; Rage Incarnate, The Crimson Crown
Sloppity Bilepiper
Bloodletters (x28); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Nurgle, Battalion
Poxbringer
Spoilpox Scrivener
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Fortification
Feculant Gnarlmaw
Christ on a plate. 200 models and change. Fair play, mate.
Spoiler: 7. AeldariHarlequins, Vanguard
(W) Troupe Master; Power Sword, Player of the Twilight, The Storied Sword <Midnight Sorrow>
Solitaire; Cegorach's Rose <Midnight Sorrow>
Death Jester <Dreaming Shadow>
Death Jester <Dreaming Shadow>
Ulthwé, Battalion
Eldrad Ulthran
Warlock Skyrunner
Rangers (x5)
Rangers (x5)
Rangers (x10)
Prophets of Flesh, Battalion
Urien Rakarth
Haemonculus; Hexrifle, Venom Blade, Vexator Mask
Wracks (x5); Acothyst; Hexrifle, Venom Blade
Wracks (x5); Acothyst; Hexrifle, Venom Blade
Wracks (x5); Acothyst; Hexrifle, Venom Blade
Grotesques (x10)
Grotesques (x9)
Grotesques (x9)
It made Top 8 so I apparently don't know anything anymore.
Spoiler: 6. Chaos (Chaos Daemons)Thousand Sons, Supreme Command
Ahriman on Disc
(W) Daemon Prince with Wings
Sorcerer on Disc
Sorcerer on Disc
Chaos Daemons, Battalion
Daemon Prince with Wings; Axe, <Khorne> Pretty sure to get the <Titan>-killing Axe.
Poxbringer; Balesword
Bloodletters (x28); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x29); Champion
Pink Horrors (x25)
<Tzeentch>, Battalion
Changecaster
Sorcerer
Brimstone Horrors (x30)
Tzaangors (x29); Musician & Champion
Tzaangors (x21); Musician & Champion
It's lists like these that make me wish I played Chaos. I mean...Fluff is right out the window, 'cause who gives a ****? But each unit is different whilst still being effective at what it does.
Spoiler: 5. Imperium (Knights)Krast, Super-Heavies
Knight Gallant
(W) Knight Crusader; Avenger, Thermal Cannon, Ironstorm Missile Pod
Armiger Warglaive; Heavy Stubber
Cadia, Battalion[/U]
Company Commander
Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolters (x3)
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Sniper Rifle
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Sniper Rifle
Infantry Squad; Sniper Rifle
Heavy Weapons Team; Mortars
Heavy Weapons Team; Mortars
Dark Angels, Air Wing
Dark Talon; Hurricane Bolters (x2)
Dark Talon; Hurricane Bolters (x2)
Dark Talon; Hurricane Bolters (x2) I'm not sure if CanCon was using new Bolter rules, but these would be even better if it was the case.
I don't see anything wrong here. I like this list a lot. A place for everything, and everything in its place.
Spoiler: 3. Chaos Daemons (Nurgle)Nurgle Daemons, Battalion
Poxbringer
Sloppity Bilepiper
Spoilpox Scrivener
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Plaguebearers (x30); Full Command
Fortification
Feculant Gnarlmaw
Chaos Daemons, Supreme Command
Bloodmaster
(W) Fluxmaster
Fluxmaster
Summoning (~500)
A key important rule is that Summoning doesn't count as Reinforcements, which means you're allowed to do it on Turn 1. Boom.
As always, you do not have to tell your opponent what you have 'in Reserve', because fact is, you don't know (although you definitely do).
Spoiler: 3. Orks
Bad Moons, Batallion
(W) Big Mek; Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek; Shokk Attack Gun
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Tankbustas (x15); Rokkits (x15), Bomb Squigs (x6)
Lootas (x15)
Evil Sunz, Battalion
Warboss; Kombi-Skorcha, Big Choppa
Weirdboy
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Meganobz (x10); Kustom Shootas (x10), Power Klaws (x10)
Meganobz (x10); Kustom Shootas (x10), Power Klaws (x10)
Blood Axes, Battalion
Big Mek; Shokk Attack Gun
Weirdboy
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Once again, 'real Ork players' have a cry about Gretchin being a competitive unit. What do you expect? They're 3 Points each and literally protect your other models. Whilst also being Objective Secured.
Spoiler: 2. Imperium (Deathwatch)Valhalla, Battalion
(W) Company Commander
Company Commander
Conscripts (x30)
Infantry Squad; Mortar
Infantry Squad; Mortar
Wyvern; Heavy Bolter
Deathwatch, Battalion
Watch Master
Librarian with Jump Pack; Force Stave, Storm Bolter
Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
- Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter & Storm Shield
- Terminators (x3); Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolters (x3), Power Fist, Power Swords (x2)
- Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield
- Biker; Twin Boltgun, Teleport Homer
Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
- Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter & Storm Shield
- Terminators (x3); Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolters (x3), Power Fist, Power Swords (x2)
- Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield
- Biker; Twin Boltgun, Teleport Homer
Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
- Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter & Storm Shield
- Terminators (x3); Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolters (x3), Power Fist, Power Swords (x2)
- Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield
- Biker; Twin Boltgun, Teleport Homer
Krast
Crusader; Avenger Gatling, RFBC, Stormspear Rocket Pod
Maybe they are using the rules for Bolt weapons? If you know the meta is hordes, bring Storm Bolters...Deathwatch Storm Bolters. Use Combat Squads to have the Biker and Terminators run around with Relentless Storm Bolters, whilst your Veterans stay on points with the Watch Master. It's not rocket science.
Undefeated
Spoiler: 1. Tyranids (yes, really)Leviathan, Battalion
Neurothrope
(W) Malanthrope
Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x26)
Termagants (x26)
Termagants (x25)
Termagants (x25)
Biovores (x2)
Kraken, Battalion
Old One Eye
Broodlord; Ymgarl Factor
Rippers (x3)
Rippers (x3)
Rippers (x3)
GSC, Supreme Command
Magus
Patriarch
Primus
Purestrains (x18); Rending Claws
Fearless hordes OP.
ITC is bat****. 'Nuff said.
Things I learned;
Exalted Court for House Krast so your shooty Knight re-rolls all its 1s. Then add Headsman's Mark to make it's Avenger Cannon 3 Damage.
The ITC Missions still make no sense to me because 'You can choose how you win.' The only thing you and your opponent need to do is hold 1 Objective and kill 1 unit per turn. Other than that you and your opponent aren't even playing the same game.
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2019-01-28, 03:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Lima, Peru
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-28, 03:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
They're silly lists because the ITC is silly.
The ITC format is supposed to 'fix' what's wrong with 40K at any given time. In a way, the ITC competitors are supposed to be on the cutting edge of the game...With which FLG can take that data back to GW where GW cando nothingmake changes as they see fit, based on whether or not something was intended to be that way.
The way to do this, obviously, was to allow Factions to play to their strengths. "Choose how you win." That way, say,just castle up and wina T'au army doesn't need to cross the board to win games. That's all well and good, and I fully support it, and give it an 'A' for effort...
But a 'D' in execution. Fact is, 40K is still a game, where statistics and numbers rule. With one of the core tenets of the game being "Whoever has the most models on the board, is more likely to win games." The ITC doesn't change that...In fact, it pretty much reinforces it. Just cluster everything around one or two Objectives in your own DZ and kill 1-4 units per turn. You can kill more than 4 units per turn, but there's no real reason to do. So why bother? Just keep everything cheap so you can have more of it.
After all, no matter how many units you take...It still isn't worth your opponent's time killing more than 4 units per turn - if that. Unless they're going for a tabling. Except if you've got 150 models on the board...Your opponent isn't going to table you anytime soon...So just go back to killing the minimum you need to.
inb4 Age of Sigmar defense;
There's no to wound modifiers except on specific units, which makes no sense.
Multi-Damage weapons carry over into the next model, which makes no sense.
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2019-01-28, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-28, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Wow, what are all these different Daemon characters suddenly? What's a fluxmaster? Did their codex add stuff?
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2019-01-28, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
There's loads of Synapse. Conga line one model to the Synapase and you're done.
Welcome to ITC.
And what was OOE for.
Bloodmaster = Herald of Khorne
Skullmaster = ...on Juggernaut
Blood Throne = ...on Chariot
Changecaster = Herald of Tzeentch
Fateskimmer = ...on Chariot
Fluxmaster = ...on Disc
Poxbringer = Herald of Nurgle.
Sloppity Bilepiper = Different Herald.
Spoilpox Scrivener = Even more different Herald.
Basically...Blame Age of Sigmar, and the fact that they need to sell the same model over two systems.
Heralds of Slaanesh still exist because GW forgot to make new Sigmar models for Slaanesh until five seconds ago.
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2019-01-28, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
And here I was thinking a fluxmaster was a particularly expensive brand of headphones. Odd that they renamed everything for 40k but didnt bother for AOS.
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2019-01-28, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-28, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Flux can mean change, but it can also mean dysentery. Kind of ironic that a Tzeentch name would fit Nurgle almost equally well.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-01-28, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Hard to argue with results at any rate.
He's a Character with 9 Wounds. What do you mean what's he for?
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2019-01-28, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
SECTOR MECHANICUS TECTONIC FRAGDRILL $60,00
CODEX: GENESTEALER CULTS (HB) (ENGLISH) $40,00
DATACARDS: GENESTEALER CULTS (SPANISH) $15,00
DATACARDS: GENESTEALER CULTS (ENGLISH) $15,00
GENESTEALER CULTS CLAMAVUS $25,00
GENESTEALER CULTS LOCUS $25,00
GENESTEALER CULTS MAGUS $25,00
GENESTEALER CULTS NEXOS $25,00
GENESTEALER CULTS SANCTUS $25,00
GENESTEALER CULTS BROOD BROTHERS $40,00
GENESTEALER CULTS ATALAN JACKALS $55,00
GENESTEALER CULTS JACKAL ALPHUS $35,00
GENESTEALER CULTS DICE $30,00
More importantly, FW is finally releasing Sanguinius! And... he looks boring as hell. I dont know if its the generic Bretonian horse wings, the using a greatsword to pierce, not cut, the stiff pose, or what but he looks very underwhelming.
Sources:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/...stealer-cults/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-1/Last edited by LansXero; 2019-01-28 at 10:05 AM.
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2019-01-28, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I don't think that I will be alone in saying that I'll be quite happy to wait for a week and then pick up the book/tiles/cards for peanuts on eBay after everyone else has done breaking down the sprues and selling the miniatures to collectors.
I want to play Kill Team: Arena, but I'm not prepared to put down that amount of money to then have yet more models that - as pretty as they are - I have no interest in building, painting or playing.
I remember you describing the Iron Hands' list a few days ago and being confused as to what he was hoping to achieve with such a non-meta choice. Did that ever become apparent, or was it a radical experiment that was doomed to failure before it got off the ground?~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2019-01-28, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
He can't be targeted, and even if he does get targeted, he's got 9 Wounds and Regen. He can't even be one-shotted by an Oathbreaker.
When you've got 100+ models in front of you, not being targeted is a big deal.
provides no synapse
Why do you even need Synapse?
A single Synapse model covers a 24" circle, not including Dominion or Synaptic Lynchpin.
If one model is within range, the entire unit is. With ~30 model units, you can cover the entire board, and still remain within range to a single Synapse model.
The only reason you need more Synapse is if either
a) You're running Hive Tyrants and/or Swarmlord, who can be targeted, and therefore die on Turn 1 (or just straight up aren't on the board because they're in Reserve), or
b) You plan on moving the Synapse model, and thus, the Synapse circle changes position.
If you have a Synapse model that can't be targeted, and doesn't change position? Who cares how much Synapse you don't have. You have all the Synapse you need.
synergizes Carnifexes which are non-existent in this army
I guess he's the only anti-tank they have
The most important takeaway that I can impart is two-fold...
1. Tournament players don't play their Factions, or the game, the way a normal person would, and
2. ITC players definitely don't play the same way normal people do (and that's a big problem, IMO).
I can't stress this anywhere more obviously than with Orks.
Gretchin are one of the best units in the book.
But who plays Orks to put ~100 Gretchin on the board?
T'au; It's all cheap Infantry and Shield Drones. Where's all the 'Suits? Oh wait. 'Suits aren't cheap Infantry holding Objectives.
See that big fancy Hive Tyrant you've got? ...It's garbage.
He's the Archangel Michael, to Horus' Lucifer. I know that image anywhere.
Spoiler
Spoiler
...But, that said. Doesn't make it a good model, though.
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2019-01-28, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-01-28, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I'm *really* not a fan of the "I'm flying around with a pointy rock stuck RIGHT up my butt" poses. Some miniatures get away with it by virtue of being nicely balanced on the base, like Astorath the Grim, but it looks a bit weird most of the time.
A model as big and as prominent as Sanguinius needs to look it's absolute best, and I think that they ought to have had him standing upright with his wings aloft, beatific and regal. I know they're going for a dynamic pose in order to have him in a diorama with one of his brothers as they did with Ferrus/Fulgrim and Magnus/Leman Russ, but if you're NOT using the diorama then I think this pose looks very awkward and static. Not one of the better sculpts, I think.~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2019-01-28, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I don’t think there are any models in Arena that collectors will be after though? It’s just the scenery: the newly spoiled kill teams are seperate. Which is why it’s really overpriced for what it is, should be half as much IMO.
I mean, if anything is going to be a loss leader, this should be it: sell KT Arena ‘cheaply’, encourage purchase of models for the kill teams themselves. The current price point will just discourage take up.Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-01-28, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Ambush looks properly tricky. Is that the most "complex" Faction Ability we've seen? Mostly they're just like stat bonuses or extra usable abilities, this one completely changes the early phase of the game.
On Arena:
The price is steep, but I kind of understand why they put it there. From a sales standpoint, it's a box that will be a one-off purchase for players, there's no reason to buy multiple unless you reeeeaally want that specific terrain, which I can't see anyone caring about. And if you have a small, more casual community, you might also only see half sales since they specifically state two people can use one box to play the full experience. So for a box that gets you a full competitive experience focused on balance, a one-time buy in of $90 is pretty cheap.
Of course, that assumes there won't be expansions. Underworlds is only $90 if you buy the core box and one expansion of your choice, but everyone knows that if you want to keep up there's a few sets you really should purchase for the cards (I've bought everything because I love the game, but I understand the frustration with that system). I think it's safe to assume that if the game does well, there'll be card and probably board expansions. The frequency and cost of these will really be the deciding factor in whether the cost of the core game is worthwhile.
IMO if it's a one-time $90 for the core box and then once or twice per year after a $30 expansion for new missions etc, that's a pretty reasonable price for a full competitive ruleset with boards/minis/cards/etc that will last you for a long time. It's a bit steep for just a board game, especially considering you still need to buy other models, but I think if it's a one-off or once-per-year thing, then it's not that bad for people that already have Armies or Kill Teams. The price will drive away newcomers, but if you've been playing basic KT for a while and are seeking a more competitive style, or are new and are only coming in for a competitive ruleset, I don't think it'll prevent you from getting onboard.
As for the rules:
-Inclusion of rules on how to run a Tournament is great. Dunno how great they are, but it's a solid gesture for a company that's basically given tourney scenes the cold shoulder until the past year or so.
-Removing the Scouting phase is something I like. I feel like it adds some fun, but you can basically tell what most people would use and it got a bit repetitive.
-I quite like the way choosing your objectives works, and it can add some tactica to picking your Command Roster and what not.
-Better clarification of what "being in cover" means is only a good thing. Should have been there in the first place, but thanks, Arena.
-Requiring tokens is questionable, but I like it since it prevents "did that guy run? I can't remember" syndrome which I saw too many times at my store
-I really like the corridor and door setup. It feels much more tactical than the regular kill team box, which often just felt like running in circles around one giant piece of terrain and huddling behind random scatter stuff. The halls feel much better designed for movement and line of fire tactics.
-Not sure about some of the random Killzone stuff, but it adds some variance to the game, at least.
Overall I want to play some games to see how it feels. I'll definitely be buying it (especially since I have a bunch of store credit to burn through), so I'll give more thoughts on it later.
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2019-01-28, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
So, let me see if I've read this right:
1) You take 3 units with Cult Ambush (in a minimum Battalion with a couple of Pysker HQs cause why not).
2) You pay 1CP, and put down a line of 6 Ambush markers across the front of your DZ.
3) The opponent isn't allowed to come within 9" of the markers during their movement phase, making 1st turn charges almost impossible.
4) You pay 1CP, pick up all the markers and say "whoops, they were in Reserve all along".
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2019-01-28, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It