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    Default [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    This is one of the few swords that D&D does not have rules for (at least that I know of). It would be an exotic weapon, but actually worth the feat so here are the stats:



    {table=head]Blade|Damage|Type|Crit|Special
    Primary|1d6|S|20/x2|+4 to trip and disarm
    Cross Guard|1d4|S|19-20/x2|When fighting defensively, using Combat Expertise, or using total defense: gain +2 shield AC
    Hilt Spike|1d4|P|20/x3|May be used while grappling as a dagger, -2 to attack outside a grapple[/table]

    Counts as one weapon for enhancements; while a one-handed weapon, you may wield two as if they were light weapons; may be used with weapon finesse, but not with power attack. All bonuses when wielding two Tiger Head Hook swords stack (i.e. you get +8 to trip and disarm), but if you opt to drop a weapon due to a failed trip attempt, you must drop both if you used both bonuses. You may use the hooks to hang on to an outcropping, branch, etc.

    Cost: 800gp
    Tiger Head Hook swords are always sold as a set of two masterwork weapons, which is reflected in the above cost.

    Well, what do you think? It might be a little powerful, but thats basically what you are supposed to use the real thing for. Of course it is an ancient Chinese weapon, so it might not fit in every game but it is real awesome. Any other abilities you think it should have?

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    So I'm to assume that you can only use one head per attack, right? Looks neat, worth a feat.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Also grants a +2 circumstance bonus to picking up gullible Water Tribe chicks.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by starwoof View Post
    So I'm to assume that you can only use one head per attack, right? Looks neat, worth a feat.
    They are not like double weapons (triple really) where you get an off-hand attack, instead you can choose which blade to use for each attack. So if you fight defensively, or want a higher crit chance, use the cross guard blade. If grappled, use the hilt spike and for normal fight use the primary blade. The sword is all about versitlity. Oh, and I forgot to add the price and damage types, I'll fix that.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    I saw a book that featured them, but they were only called hook swords, and looked slightly different.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Can you use more than one sword per attack? If not, what if you're only holding one?

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielLC View Post
    Can you use more than one sword per attack? If not, what if you're only holding one?
    With two weapon fighting. Really, it should not have any penalty because people trained in their use are extremely good fighters and would not be less likely to hit then someone with S&B or THW. In fact, they would hit better, but thats just too powerful and I figured "no penalties for two-weapon fighting" would make the weapon just too good compared to other weapons. But really, I could see a swashbuckler-type or rogue kicking a fighters a$$ with these. And you normally don't train to use only one, they aren't balanced for that. Plus you can't buy them separate and you can't mix sets because they would not be balanced right.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    What about my personal favorite maneuver, hooking the tops together and swinging the crossguard out like a crazy axe-chuck?
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlimin_Soulaxe View Post
    What about my personal favorite maneuver, hooking the tops together and swinging the crossguard out like a crazy axe-chuck?
    Improvised weapon! -4 to attack rolls! ;-)

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlimin_Soulaxe View Post
    What about my personal favorite maneuver, hooking the tops together and swinging the crossguard out like a crazy axe-chuck?
    It would be an improvised attack, and not something a professional would do, but it would probably have reach.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    It would be an improvised attack, and not something a professional would do, but it would probably have reach.
    Hooking the tops of the swords together is actually a real maneuver with tiger hook swords. Generally it was only done by either people who were very, very good with the weapons or someone who thought they were. The later type generally ended up with only one sword and/or severe cuts from their other weapon flying away. Perhaps the training such a thing would require could be represented by a feat? Something like this?

    Linked Swords Slash(AKA Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver)
    Prerequisites: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +8
    Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.) When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
    Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.
    Last edited by Nostri; 2007-10-12 at 04:47 PM.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Oh, and *THREAD RAISE DEAD*

    (The thread now has 1 negative level. This means that all additional posts on it may or may not be ignored entirely by most of the board....)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver (better name to come at a latter date)
    Prerequisites: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +8
    Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.) When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
    Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.
    Looks good, I guess I just haven't seen someone good do it before...
    How about Linked Swords Slash for a name, a little corny, but more serious.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    Counts as one weapon for enhancements; while a one-handed weapon, you may wield two as if they were light weapons; may be used with weapon finesse. All bonuses when wielding two Tiger Head Hook swords stack (i.e. you get +8 to trip and disarm). You may use the hooks to hang on to an outcropping, branch, etc.
    Personally, since this seems to be a weapon thats more about skill and finesse than pure strength, I'd copy the line from rapier about being unable to power attack with it. +8 to trip and disarm seems a bit much... Are there even rules for using two weapons in a trip or disarm special attack? If you fail, must you drop both to not be tripped? That +2/+4 to AC could use a type, even if its only a shield bonus. Does it work for the total defense action as well?

    Something you might wish to add to the crunch is a penalty for welding only one or trying to duel weld one of these with something else: fluff-wise this appears to be more a very special double weapon than two single weapons.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyace View Post
    Personally, since this seems to be a weapon thats more about skill and finesse than pure strength, I'd copy the line from rapier about being unable to power attack with it. +8 to trip and disarm seems a bit much... Are there even rules for using two weapons in a trip or disarm special attack? If you fail, must you drop both to not be tripped? That +2/+4 to AC could use a type, even if its only a shield bonus. Does it work for the total defense action as well?

    Something you might wish to add to the crunch is a penalty for welding only one or trying to duel weld one of these with something else: fluff-wise this appears to be more a very special double weapon than two single weapons.
    Some good points, I've edited the original entry to add some of your suggestions. As for the penalty for wielding only one or duel wield with another weapon, I did consider that at first, but I figured that because of their synergy and the fact you can never get just one it was not necessary. If you used these weapons, would we wield them any other way?

    Also remember (though it might not have been clear at first), that to gain the benefit that is attached to a specific blade, you must have used that blade in the action, so you only get the +2/+4 shield bonus to AC if you used the cross guard blades in your action.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    I'd make it so you get an automatic intimidate (demoralize opponent) for the crazy axe-chuck maneuver. You could get one of these sundered, share one with a party member who gets his sundered, attempt to do the crazy axe-chuck maneuver without taking the feat, etc.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Keep the feat name as is!

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Changed the feat name. Maybe I'll add an automatic Intimidate check but I'm not sure. It might add too much to the feat, tip the balance over. Anyone else have an opinion?
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    Changed the feat name. Maybe I'll add an automatic Intimidate check but I'm not sure. It might add too much to the feat, tip the balance over. Anyone else have an opinion?
    Maybe give a temporary bonus to intimidate after each use, for like 1d4+1 rounds.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    Changed the feat name. Maybe I'll add an automatic Intimidate check but I'm not sure. It might add too much to the feat, tip the balance over. Anyone else have an opinion?
    I get the feeling that something like that is only useful to scare people. If adding an automatic intimidate check adds to the feat, make it harder to hit with or do less damage. You should probably add a critical miss where one sword flies off.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielLC View Post
    I get the feeling that something like that is only useful to scare people. If adding an automatic intimidate check adds to the feat, make it harder to hit with or do less damage. You should probably add a critical miss where one sword flies off.
    Hm, that's a good idea. How about the attack deals one size less damage and on a natural one the off-hand sword is dropped in a random adjacent square, deals no damage to an occupant of that square.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Linked Swords Slash (AKA Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver)
    Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting
    Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.)
    Special: If you fumble (roll a natural 1 on an attack roll) while wielding your swords in this manner you loose the unheld sword in the attack. The sword lands in a randomly determined adjacent square without causing damage to the square's occupent. When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
    Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.

    There, revised the feat to include loosing the sword if you roll a 1. Adding another feat related to the same manuver:

    Ferocious Hooked Tiger
    Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, Linked Swords Slash
    Benifit: When you are duel wielding tiger hook swords you may make an Intimidate to demoralize an opponant as a standard action through a complex series of flashy moves that involve hooking and unhooking your swords. You get a +4 equipment bonus to this roll. You may end this manuver with your swords linked or unlinked.
    Special: If you roll a natural 1 on your Intimidate check you loose one of your swords to a miscalculation during your attempt. This weapon flies into a randomly determined adjacent square without causing any damage to the square's occupent.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon Badger View Post
    Improvised weapon! -4 to attack rolls! ;-)
    It's also a reach weapon.
    Last edited by Old_el_Paso; 2007-10-16 at 10:26 PM.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    Linked Swords Slash (AKA Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver)
    Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting
    Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.)
    Special: If you fumble (roll a natural 1 on an attack roll) while wielding your swords in this manner you loose the unheld sword in the attack. The sword lands in a randomly determined adjacent square without causing damage to the square's occupent. When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
    Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.

    There, revised the feat to include loosing the sword if you roll a 1. Adding another feat related to the same manuver:

    Ferocious Hooked Tiger
    Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, Linked Swords Slash
    Benifit: When you are duel wielding tiger hook swords you may make an Intimidate to demoralize an opponant as a standard action through a complex series of flashy moves that involve hooking and unhooking your swords. You get a +4 equipment bonus to this roll. You may end this manuver with your swords linked or unlinked.
    Special: If you roll a natural 1 on your Intimidate check you loose one of your swords to a miscalculation during your attempt. This weapon flies into a randomly determined adjacent square without causing any damage to the square's occupent.
    Looks good. It gets my stamp of approval (whatever that means to anyone).

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    I think it'd be far easier just to take levels in Exotic Weapon Master, as that'd cover the two-weapon fighting a master of the weapons would use with Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting and the intimidation effect with the Show Off ability. If you wanted a final ability to maximize Show Off, I'd suggest Trip Attack, which would bring the Trip bonus up to +12

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    I like this weapon write up. The whole mentality of the two weapon fighting thing though, would be best handle by the entire TWF tree.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Nice. I'm gonna add this to my rogue/monk right now.

    EDIT: By the way, after doing some research on the weapon, the "primary" portion of the weapon seems to be blunt so there should be no damage or at least bludgeoning damage.
    Last edited by Zurpl; 2008-01-17 at 03:16 AM.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    May I say that I was just looking for a suitable exotic weapon for my new character that I'm thinking about. I thought to myself "I dislike the arms & equipment guide weapons, and the phb weapons, HEY! I'll check the homebrew section!" and here it is, A perfect answer to my cry. This weapon(s) will make an excellent addition to a young armorless fighter I was making! It gets my special seal of approval which is often in the shape of a cookie. (not this time! )

    EDIT: I also saw these weapons in a sword shop and wanted them but decided on not getting it for financial reasons. I reaaaallllyy like them.

    EDIT EDIT: what about for kensai? Would two tiger head hook swords be 1 signature weapon? I think it would act as a double weapon for kensai purposes.
    Last edited by Xyk; 2008-01-17 at 10:52 PM.
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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    EDIT EDIT: what about for kensai? Would two tiger head hook swords be 1 signature weapon? I think it would act as a double weapon for kensai purposes.
    I would rule the weapons as a single double weapon for this purpose. Considering, you can't buy them separately, they are two parts of one whole. However, it is up to your DM. I'm glad you like them.

    @ Zurpl's edit: Hm...I thought they where blades...well, I guess bludgeoning is fine then, but I don't see why you couldn't sharpen them. I'll leave that up to the DM to decide.

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    Default Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords

    I think the weapon deals too much damage, if you don't mind me saying so.

    The primary deals the damage of a long sword, but the weapon doesn't look like its as large or small.

    The Cross gaurds looks more like a knife like damage if you don't mind me saying so.

    Hilt spike doesn't seem like the damage I would go for.

    I also don't like some of the bonus' that you gain from the tiger hooked blades. +4 to trip and disarm? I say +2 to trip and disarm for balance reasons and realism. The said, made for disarming, has a +2 to disarm. Just saying. And the shield bonus to ac negates the need to take Two-weapon Defense, or gives you an even greater bonus. May I suggest a +1?

    As for the price.... whoa. I have never seen a non-magic weapon cost that much. I think you should reduce the price down to 650 gold pieces.

    Nice feats! I find that the fumble doesn't make too much sense. I mean, when you take the feat your trained to actuelly do it in that manner, so why would you fail to do a manuever that you've been drilling yourself to do (hence taking the feat). Besides, most DMs I know have the Nat 1 fumble rule for all weapons.

    And why would it be intimidate check? Would it not be a Perform (Weapon drill) instead? Intimidate skill is about body language and what you say and how you say it.

    I hope that I was atleast a little helpful.

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