Why did Loki screw over Hel?

[paladinofshojo]

I don’t get why Loki would even trick Hel which severely depowered her?

Never mind the fact that she’s his daughter, as another evil deity shouldn’t it be better for Loki to have Hel around as a potential tool to use to foil the Northern Pantheon?

Also, I am under the impression that he’s chaotic right? So why does he care if having Hel around upsets the balance of things?

Is there something I’m not seeing here, it just seems out of character to me.

[Peelee]

I believe in the Grey Wolf Theory: that Loki was able to kill two birds with one stone. He not only screwed over Hel, but also Thor, by having him, a (seemingly) Chaotic god, be the biggest patron of one of the most Lawful societies on the Material Plane. I also wonder if it wouldn't have an effect on Thor like the non-magic-believers had on Odin, in messing him up somewhat for the next iteration of the planet.

[Fyraltari]

Loki is kind of a living reminder that most of the more devastating events in history have as their reason : ‘It seemed like a good idea at the time’.

[Draconi Redfir]

yeah i seriously doubt there was anything inherently malicious or planned about it all. Loki is a trickster god, most likely he just thought it'd be funny.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don’t get why Loki would even trick Hel which severely depowered her?

Never mind the fact that she’s his daughter, as another evil deity shouldn’t it be better for Loki to have Hel around as a potential tool to use to foil the Northern Pantheon?

Also, I am under the impression that he’s chaotic right? So why does he care if having Hel around upsets the balance of things?

Is there something I’m not seeing here, it just seems out of character to me.

Because Evil is not one Big Happy Family (except when it is), so Loki depowering an Evil deity means more evil souls for him. If I am correct, as Peelee succinctly described above, and Loki was also angling to tie up Thor, it also meant more human souls for Loki, since Thor has been so busy micromanaging dwarven life that he does not have anywhere near as many non-dwarf followers in the Northern lands as you would expect.

Grey Wolf

[RatElemental]

It's entirely possible Loki did this because he foresaw the destruction of the world putting his daughter at the head of the northern pantheon, a fact he could reveal once it was all said and done.

It's also possible that his reason was to teach his daughter the importance of a balanced diet clerics and was planning to let the souls of the world be devoured by the snarl to keep her from getting too powerful.

My headcanon is that it was the latter, but then the dark one ascended and now he actually does want to save the world but if the snarl gets out and eats everyone he hasn't lost anything he wasn't prepared to lose going into this world anyway. He can claim his intentions were the first thing too if it comes to that.

[Peelee]

It's entirely possible Loki did this because he foresaw the destruction of the world putting his daughter at the head of the northern pantheon, a fact he could reveal once it was all said and done.

I think any god not foreseeing the destruction of the world would have to be massively optimistic.

[RatElemental]

I think any god not foreseeing the destruction of the world would have to be massively optimistic.

The main part of that sentence was the "putting her at the top of the northern pantheon" bit. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious that Hel would get all the dwarven souls when the gods destroyed the world, and it's possible to destroy the world without empowering Hel, via the snarl.

[Draconi Redfir]

Why does it need to be a big conspiracy to depower / empower Hel and/or Thor?

Why can't it just be "Loki (Trickster god) was tricking his family members (Again)"?

[paladinofshojo]

True, Loki is a trickster god but I feel like he has much more common sense than just screwing over people for the sake of screwing them over.

I mean he did have to tell his brother “dude, don’t taint the god killing abomination” remember?

[Peelee]

Why does it need to be a big conspiracy to depower / empower Hel and/or Thor?

Why can't it just be "Loki (Trickster god) was tricking his family members (Again)"?

..the GW Hypothesis isn't a big conspiracy, though. It's literally "Loki (Trickster god) was tricking his family members (Again), And Here's the Trick."

[Draconi Redfir]

..the GW Hypothesis isn't a big conspiracy, though. It's literally "Loki (Trickster god) was tricking his family members (Again), And Here's the Trick."

yeah but everyone is saying "He did it because he wants hel to die" or "because he wants hel to become uber powerful" or "because he has X plan with Y as a component to accomplish ABC muahahaha"

When all we've seen is him effectively saying "Hey, guys. Let's try something different."

[Peelee]

yeah but everyone is saying "He did it because he wants hel to die" or "because he wants hel to become uber powerful" or "because he has X plan with Y as a component to accomplish ABC muahahaha"

When all we've seen is him effectively saying "Hey, guys. Let's try something different."

Again, which is why I like the GW Hypothesis. "He did it because it's a prank on Hel and Thor that bites them in the ass for a world or two." pretty tame god prank there, in the sense of billions of worlds they've been through so far. No goal other than the other two getting temporarily shafted.

[Draconi Redfir]

Again, which is why I like the GW Hypothesis. "He did it because it's a prank on Hel and Thor that bites them in the ass for a world or two." pretty tame god prank there, in the sense of billions of worlds they've been through so far. No goal other than the other two getting temporarily shafted.

ohh, seems we're on the same page then. gotcha.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

yeah but everyone is saying "He did it because he wants hel to die" or "because he wants hel to become uber powerful" or "because he has X plan with Y as a component to accomplish ABC muahahaha"

When all we've seen is him effectively saying "Hey, guys. Let's try something different."

Well, I'm not "everyone", and the conclusion of my hypothesis is not "to kill Hel" but to depower her. The equivalent of scamming her out of money for this world, to make himself richer in the process.

Grey Wolf

[NerdyKris]

What strip was the flashback to the plan shown in? I'm having trouble finding it, but wasn't it just to prove a point? I don't think Loki was trying to kill Hel or empower her, but was just proving that priests were important.

[hroþila]

I think Loki would or should have foreseen that the bet would most likely result in Hel getting all the dwarven souls eventually and possibly becoming more powerful than Odin. If he didn't foresee it, however, that's fine because he's probably not supposed to think things through. But what about the other gods? Assuming they also had to agree with the bet (which isn't strictly canon, but seems like the most natural assumption on how the bet can work in practice from what we've been told, because those souls weren't strictly Thor's to gamble), they should have foreseen it. Would they have agreed in that case? That seems dubious, so I'm going to assume the other gods didn't need to agree. Which would be odd, because again, those souls weren't Thor's. But perhaps they only needed Odin's agreement, and he was extra senile at the time (which we know he was).

Anyway, that's probably the most confusing paragraph I've ever written, but what I'm trying to get at is that my theory is that Loki did this mostly to have fun at the expense of Hel and Thor, but also ultimately to weaken Thor and make his daughter more powerful and teach her a lesson (or at any rate, when he thought of this outcome he was OK with it; maybe he thought deposing Odin would be even funnier). But the emergence of the Dark One's purple quiddity changed everything, so Loki abandoned his prank and focused on trying to stop the cycle of world creation/destruction. Except the prank has come back to bite him.

[Jasdoif]

What strip was the flashback to the plan shown in?

Strip 1083.

[NerdyKris]

Found it. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1083.html

I remembered the deal wrong.

There's a plan being implied by the way Loki sets it up.

edit- damn banana ninja

[Peelee]

Impressive. Most impressive.

ETA: Dangit, Fyraltari, now it's not as impressive!

[Jasdoif]

banana ninja

Baninja. What?

[Peelee]

Baninja.

Bananja. Fight me.

[hroþila]

Bananja. Fight me.

Seven Bananjas. Maybe more.

[Jasdoif]

Bananja.

No, no, that's related to the activity...if NerdyKris had said "banana ninjary" then it would be bananja. It can be traced back to the conjugated form of "bananjar", which is rarely used because it reminds people too much of peanut butter.

[Peelee]

No, no, that's related to the activity...if NerdyKris had said "banana ninjary" then it would be bananja. It can be traced back to the conjugated form of "bananjar", which is rarely used because it reminds people too much of peanut butter.

I find this acceptable. And not just because you apparently know that conjugation is my kryptonite.

[Fyraltari]

ETA: Dangit, Fyraltari, now it's not as impressive!

What do you mean?

[Peelee]

What do you mean?

Were you not the one who made the third post at 3:38 CST with a link to the 1083, then deleted it by the time I posted? I thought it was, but my memory is shaky on the best of days.

[Fyraltari]

Were you not the one who made the third post at 3:38 CST with a link to the 1083, then deleted it by the time I posted? I thought it was, but my memory is shaky on the best of days.

Yes, but that brought nothing to the table.

[Peelee]

Yes, but that brought nothing to the table.

It brought impressiveness!

[Jasdoif]

It brought impressiveness!

Yes; that would have made it bananjan or bananjamos.