Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 43 of 49 FirstFirst ... 183334353637383940414243444546474849 LastLast
Results 1,261 to 1,290 of 1468
  1. - Top - End - #1261
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    It would make more sense if Diplomacy was labeled Interaction instead. That's what it's used for.

  2. - Top - End - #1262
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Appraise is useful to getting to all those prices, but convincing someone to accept them needs Diplomacy.
    This is entirely my opinion on "what makes sense" and "how it should work" and not "how any has ever done it": You don't need diplomacy to get someone in the business of doing X for money to do X for money. Maybe you need it to buy from the goblin merchant, but then the goblin merchant wasn't really in the business of selling to humans.

    Diplomacy gets you to understand each other but no further. If there's any reason for you two to get along better, diplomacy can make that happen (maybe fantastically easily with enough ranks), but it can't rewrite a target's goals and loyalties.

  3. - Top - End - #1263
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    The rules say otherwise. Someone with a good enough roll in Diplomacy can essentially brainwash the subject.

  4. - Top - End - #1264
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    What if Xykon has the arcane preparation feat, and that's how he uses metamagic'd spells without spending a full round casting them?
    That would mean he needs 12th level spells slots. Which would mean that Xykon was 26th level minimum as four Epic feats would be required - Epic Spellcasting and 3x Improved Spell Capacity. Xykon gain Epic feats at levels 21, 23, 24 and 26.

  5. - Top - End - #1265
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    That would mean he needs 12th level spells slots. Which would mean that Xykon was 26th level minimum as four Epic feats would be required - Epic Spellcasting and 3x Improved Spell Capacity. Xykon gain Epic feats at levels 21, 23, 24 and 26.
    Probably even worse, because youíre still going to have to explain away his ring of something resistance without requiring more epic feats, right?

  6. - Top - End - #1266
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Singapore

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Isn't it simpler to just assume he has Sudden X? Or has he used metamagics for which a sudden feat is unavailable or something?

  7. - Top - End - #1267
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon, USA

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Isn't it simpler to just assume he has Sudden X?
    Those don't negate the increased casting time for applying metamagic to a spontaneously cast spell.
    Feytouched Banana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!

    The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

  8. - Top - End - #1268
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Isn't it simpler to just assume he has Sudden X? Or has he used metamagics for which a sudden feat is unavailable or something?
    When it comes to Xykon, there isnít really a ďsimpler,Ē just choice between him being really high level and relatively convoluted explanations that either involve deep dives into splatbooks or invisible magic items.

    Honestly I think if we were really strict about our rules, weíd just conclude that he has demonstrated that heís level 32 or whatever...but I think this just does that they arenít really as much rules as we like to pretend and are more just guidelines.

  9. - Top - End - #1269
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    When it comes to Xykon, there isnít really a ďsimpler,Ē just choice between him being really high level and relatively convoluted explanations that either involve deep dives into splatbooks or invisible magic items..
    Depends on how you define "convoluted" and "deep." For example, my preferred heacanon - that Xykon has the Sorcerer Alternate Class Feature Metamagic Specialist - is pretty simple and is in the PHB II, IIRC.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  10. - Top - End - #1270
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Depends on how you define "convoluted" and "deep." For example, my preferred heacanon - that Xykon has the Sorcerer Alternate Class Feature Metamagic Specialist - is pretty simple and is in the PHB II, IIRC.
    That ACF only solves the casting time issue; we still need to acount for the level increase.

  11. - Top - End - #1271
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    I'm thinking about the confidence with which Durkon used Greater Dispel Magic to Dispel Xykon's twinned Greater Invisibility in #429. We looked into this earlier this thread and it seemed that Durkon would only succeed if he rolled very high and only then if Xykon were only level 21 or 22. That seems a little low for Xykon (but that's a thread for another time). Durkon looked as if he was Taking 10.

    So, how can Durkon boost his Dispel Check? The Divine Spell Power feat will give him up to +4 but needs a round's preparation that we did not see and the Inquisition domain will give him +4 but he hasn't shown any indication of having that domain and I don't think it's one that Thor grants anyway.

    So I light on Empower Spell, or rather in Durkon's case, Sudden Empower. +50% to the variable part. But it doesn't apply to opposed rolls. But is a Dispel Check an opposed roll? Xykon isn't rolling anything. And can it be applied twice for +100%?

  12. - Top - End - #1272
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Singapore

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    That ACF only solves the casting time issue; we still need to acount for the level increase.
    Does the ACF work with sudden metamagic feats?

  13. - Top - End - #1273
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    I'm thinking about the confidence with which Durkon used Greater Dispel Magic to Dispel Xykon's twinned Greater Invisibility in #429. We looked into this earlier this thread and it seemed that Durkon would only succeed if he rolled very high and only then if Xykon were only level 21 or 22. That seems a little low for Xykon (but that's a thread for another time). Durkon looked as if he was Taking 10.

    So, how can Durkon boost his Dispel Check? The Divine Spell Power feat will give him up to +4 but needs a round's preparation that we did not see and the Inquisition domain will give him +4 but he hasn't shown any indication of having that domain and I don't think it's one that Thor grants anyway.

    So I light on Empower Spell, or rather in Durkon's case, Sudden Empower. +50% to the variable part. But it doesn't apply to opposed rolls. But is a Dispel Check an opposed roll? Xykon isn't rolling anything. And can it be applied twice for +100%?
    A simpler answer would be Xykon used a scroll.

  14. - Top - End - #1274
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon, USA

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Does the ACF work with sudden metamagic feats?
    Yes. The sudden metamagic feats have the "metamagic" keyword, so they're clearly metamagic feats; the ACF would work with them.

    That said, I'm not convinced it's necessary to combine them on the same spell; as there's two different things going on....The (normally-12th) maximized energy drain doesn't have the time restriction that the (normally-10th) still meteor swarm does (namely, that you can't cast a spell that takes longer than a standard action while being grappled).
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-11-08 at 09:54 AM.
    Feytouched Banana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!

    The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

  15. - Top - End - #1275
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    A simpler answer would be Xykon used a scroll.
    Not so simple when we consider that there's no scroll to be seen, because we start to delve into IMIH (Invisible Magical Iten Hypothesis) area, which opens up a wormhole of possibilities.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  16. - Top - End - #1276
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Not so simple when we consider that there's no scroll to be seen
    And if it was an Epic spell you can't write that onto a scroll. And which spell did he actually cast in #429? There's none in the SRD that fit, and using Twin Spell on Greater Invisibility doesn't allow two targets (Xykon and the zombie dragon). Invisibility Sphere and Mass Invisibility don't allow attackers to stay invisible after an attack and Invisibility Sphere may give too small a volume to fully contain the dragon to boot. It was one spell as evidenced by Durkon's Greater Dispel Magic revealing both Xykon and the dragon. An Epic spell with a DC of 0 can be created on the fly.

    Hmm... can you use easierr to dispel as a mitigating factor in Epic spells?

  17. - Top - End - #1277
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    And if it was an Epic spell you can't write that onto a scroll. And which spell did he actually cast in #429? There's none in the SRD that fit, and using Twin Spell on Greater Invisibility doesn't allow two targets (Xykon and the zombie dragon). Invisibility Sphere and Mass Invisibility don't allow attackers to stay invisible after an attack and Invisibility Sphere may give too small a volume to fully contain the dragon to boot. It was one spell as evidenced by Durkon's Greater Dispel Magic revealing both Xykon and the dragon. An Epic spell with a DC of 0 can be created on the fly.

    Hmm... can you use easierr to dispel as a mitigating factor in Epic spells?
    Xykon might have simply cast Greater Invisibility twice (he surely has lots of slots for that), and Durkon used an Area Dispel. That's the simplest explanation, IMHO. No need for Epic, really.

    Edit: As I've said before, he probably has Greater Invisibility, since O-Chul's list has a 4th level spell with a name starting with "Grea..." and Greater Invisibility is the only Sorcerer 4th level spell from the PHB with such a name.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-11-12 at 01:15 PM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  18. - Top - End - #1278
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Xykon might have simply cast Greater Invisibility twice (he surely has lots of slots for that), and Durkon used an Area Dispel.
    But an area Dispel stops after dispelling one spell, doesn't it? So it would dispel the Greater Invisibility on the dragon or Xykon but not both.

  19. - Top - End - #1279
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Not so simple when we consider that there's no scroll to be seen, because we start to delve into IMIH (Invisible Magical Iten Hypothesis) area, which opens up a wormhole of possibilities.
    This is a non-factor though, because itís cast off-panel. We see Xykon in the Teevo scene (416) and then not again until the big reveal in 428, which is kind of the whole point of the sequence, so we never see him cast the spell at all, scroll or otherwise. Hence, I donít think this rises to the level of the invisible metamagic rod as far as whether itís a stretch to say maybe he cast it from a scroll.

    Personally I think that other evidence about Xykonís and Durkonís relative levels at the time justify looking for alternate explanations for how the scene works. As ever in such cases we arenít likely to agree in exactly which explanation is most likely.

  20. - Top - End - #1280
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    But an area Dispel stops after dispelling one spell, doesn't it? So it would dispel the Greater Invisibility on the dragon or Xykon but not both.
    One spell per target in the area. One in the dragon, one in Xykon.

    Quote Originally Posted by From SRD
    Area Dispel: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell affects everything within a 20-foot radius.

    For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks. The creatureís magic items are not affected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    This is a non-factor though, because itís cast off-panel. We see Xykon in the Teevo scene (416) and then not again until the big reveal in 428, which is kind of the whole point of the sequence, so we never see him cast the spell at all, scroll or otherwise. Hence, I donít think this rises to the level of the invisible metamagic rod as far as whether itís a stretch to say maybe he cast it from a scroll.

    Personally I think that other evidence about Xykonís and Durkonís relative levels at the time justify looking for alternate explanations for how the scene works. As ever in such cases we arenít likely to agree in exactly which explanation is most likely.
    Fair enough, but I think we are using this scene (or at least we should be) to try to get at Durkon's or Xykon's caster level, not to discover how Xykon and the dragon got greatly invisible, since we already know that (or, at least, have strong evidence that) Xykon has Greater Invisibility.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-11-12 at 02:40 PM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  21. - Top - End - #1281
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    One spell per target in the area. One in the dragon, one in Xykon.
    I stand corrected. I thought Greater Dispel Magic finished once it had dispelled one spell on one of the targets in the area.

  22. - Top - End - #1282
    Troll in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    It certainly is plausible for Xykon to have and use scrolls, being a Sorcerer. In addition, the 4th-level "Greater - " spell may not be Greater Invisibility; Xykon's used Ghostform since way before the scene in question and that means the Giant has been using Complete Arcane, Libris Mortis, and/or Spell Compendium for his spells known.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvtTropes page!


    Extended signature here.

  23. - Top - End - #1283
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post

    Fair enough, but I think we are using this scene (or at least we should be) to try to get at Durkon's or Xykon's caster level, not to discover how Xykon and the dragon got greatly invisible, since we already know that (or, at least, have strong evidence that) Xykon has Greater Invisibility.
    I donít disagree with trying to do so...and Iíd even agree that itís likely he has greater invisibility. But thatís not necessarily evidence that he cast it.

    All else being equal Iíd go for some kind of Occamís razor argument that thatís how he got invisible, but in this case if we do assume that, then we are going to have to conclude that D and X are way closer in level than we otherwise think, and either raising Dís level or lowering Xís will lead to a whole chain of unpalatable assumptions. If you want to try to reconcile them all, then by all means have at it, but I think itís going to lead you right back to invisible magic items, or else throw off everyoneís level on the holy word scene.

    As I said, if weíd actually seen Xykon cast the spell that would be a totally different matter but as it is I feel like it makes more sense so far to assume Xykon used a scroll than it does that he has some kind of variant easier to dispell one-off epic spell or that Durkon has some really convoluted way of raising his caster level (a lot) on his dispel...

    Iíd be happy to be shown an option Iím not considering though...

  24. - Top - End - #1284
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    I stand corrected. I thought Greater Dispel Magic finished once it had dispelled one spell on one of the targets in the area.
    You're thinking of Kinda OK Dispel Magic.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  25. - Top - End - #1285
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Buckeye, Arizona, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    As I showed a couple pages ago, if we donít assume Xykon used a scroll to cast GI, and we do assume Durkon rolled a natural 20 for GDMís check and that he is level 12, Xykon has to be level 21 exactly in #429. If we assume Durkon is level 13 in that strip, which I donít feel is unreasonable (though thereís room to argue heís not), Xykon could possibly be level 22.

    Itís improbable that Durkon rolled a nat 20, sure. But itís possible and I feel itís a reasonable assumption to make that doesnít involve unseen magic items.
    Last edited by Geodude6; 2019-11-12 at 10:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubba View Post
    And you want D&D to make *sense*? Where's the fun in that?

  26. - Top - End - #1286
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kelenius's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    If Xykon's casting Greater Invisibility by himself, how is he managing to keep it up for so long? Redcloak says that he's "ten minutes in" - even if he's exaggerating a little, there's no way Xykon would have enough spell slots for that, especially if he needs to cover both himself and the dragon, and is planning to fight the paladins and animate them later.

  27. - Top - End - #1287
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelenius View Post
    If Xykon's casting Greater Invisibility by himself, how is he managing to keep it up for so long? Redcloak says that he's "ten minutes in" - even if he's exaggerating a little, there's no way Xykon would have enough spell slots for that, especially if he needs to cover both himself and the dragon, and is planning to fight the paladins and animate them later.
    Xykon has Invisibility as well as Greater Invisibility on his spell list, so maybe he started off just casting Invisibility, then cast Greater Invisibility when he got nearer to the castle, and was more likely to need to attack or cast? I don't think the action of casting Greater Invisibility would make him (or the dragon) even temporarily visible, would it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    The problem isn't unique to Leadership though. A 19-HD T-rex with the Wild Cohort feat can get a 19-HD T-rex as his lackey. And then it's T-rexes all the way down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    "Look, Monk training involves toughening the body with repeated blows. That includes toughening the head with repeated blows to the head. A little brain damage is unavoidable, and I'd thank you not to mock my medical condition."

  28. - Top - End - #1288
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Singapore

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MultitudeMan View Post
    Xykon has Invisibility as well as Greater Invisibility on his spell list, so maybe he started off just casting Invisibility, then cast Greater Invisibility when he got nearer to the castle, and was more likely to need to attack or cast? I don't think the action of casting Greater Invisibility would make him (or the dragon) even temporarily visible, would it?
    Another possibility is that he was previously hiding elsewhere, and only just cast Invisibility and rushed in. I don't think it would take him ten minutes to get from the base camp to the wall, not while riding a fast flying dragon. He could have spent ~8 minutes waiting so the heroes would focus on the decoys, first.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-11-13 at 02:08 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #1289
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    We really don't have complete information to define if Xykon cast Greater Invisibility himself, from a scroll, from a wand, or another unseen magcal iten, or if some other caster cast it on him. That said, again, the main help that knowing that could give us was to help determine the caster level of the spell and, from that, have a possible level range for Durkon (and Xykon, if he cast the spell himself).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelenius View Post
    If Xykon's casting Greater Invisibility by himself, how is he managing to keep it up for so long? Redcloak says that he's "ten minutes in" - even if he's exaggerating a little, there's no way Xykon would have enough spell slots for that, especially if he needs to cover both himself and the dragon, and is planning to fight the paladins and animate them later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Another possibility is that he was previously hiding elsewhere, and only just cast Invisibility and rushed in. I don't think it would take him ten minutes to get from the base camp to the wall, not while riding a fast flying dragon. He could have spent ~8 minutes waiting so the heroes would focus on the decoys, first.
    I take the "ten minutes in" as more an expression and hyperbole than the exact amount of time, let's see why:

    IF Xykon cast Greater Invisibility and if he was 22th level, it would last 22 rounds (or 2 minutes and 12 seconds), or could last 44 rounds (4 minutes and 24 seconds) if he had and used Extend Spell.

    This sceneshows that the hobgoblin general didn't expect regular boulders to reach the wall, meaning that the walls were beyond the range for a catapult. DMG says that the range increment for a heavy catapult is 200 ft, and SRD says that a projectile weapon has a maximum range of 10 times its Range increment, for a total of 2000 ft.

    The titanium elementals, however, being 40% lighter, did reach the wall. Redcloak fully expected that, and being the science/math geek he's shown to be, he probably had the calculations figured out before launching them. The actual math for that is kinda complicated, and involves factors like the shooting angle and air resistance, and I'm not really in the mood for that amount of calculations (mostly because it won't really give us conclusions, only speculations, I'm usually all in for math geekery if it gives us conclusive results ).

    We can, however do a simplification here in the following terms: if we assume the catapult imparts the same momentum to anything it fires, and since momentum is given by

    Momentum = Mass x Speed

    A decrease by 40% in mass means that, for the same momentum, the speed was increased by 66,67%.

    Since the shot of projectile weapon is resolved in one round, regardless of range, the increase of speed can be assumed as the increase in range, which means Azure City Walls were somewhere beetween 2,000 feet and 3,333.33 feet from the hobgoblin army.

    I don't remember if we have pinpointed tha age for the silver dragon Xykon zombified, but it must be at least Large in size, which means it has at least 150 ft. of Flying Move. Zombification reduces its flying mobility, but not its flying move. As a zombie, it can't double move, so it flies 150 ft per round, which means it covers the distance beetween the army and the walls in something beetween 14 rounds and 23 rounds.

    That means it's possible for Xykon to have cast Greater Invisibility and the spell to have lasted enough to reach the wall, specially if he used Extend Spell.

    In fact, we've seen no caster in the army (besides Xykon and Redcloak) able to cast with such long duration, and most magic itens don't cast with such high caster level (and if they did, we would be back to square one, because the main reason to consider a magic iten is to have a caster level lower than Xykon's).
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  30. - Top - End - #1290
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    That's great analysis.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •