Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

[zimmerwald1915]

1: Where did this whole question of Gontor’s class come from? Isn’t he explicitly a cleric of Hel?

It's a joke.

[Ghosty]

...That was his role in the Creed of Stone. However, what he had as an astronomical number of ranks in Use Magic Device, allowing him to use scrolls with ease.

What scrolls?, you ask. Well, I remember having read somewhere that spellbooks take many different forms, not only of a book as we see it. The same could apply to scrools: stone tablets, jewels and precious stones inscribed with the spell text, sewed leaves inscribed with druidic runes, runestones... or tattoos. What if the Exarch has lots of scrolls inscribed in his very skin, making himself his own set of scrolls. And each time he casts a spell, he is, in fact, activating a specific scroll, whose writings will disappear from his skin...

That is amazing. And I thought the Warlock's ornate tattoo, from Larry Niven's, "The Magic Goes Away," was a nifty way to store a magic item. (In his case, it served as a demon trap, sort of like the ectoplasm traps from "Ghostbusters.)

But to use the character's skin as a scroll repository...great idea.

In the live action OOTS, will he be played by Lil' Wayne?

Re: Sabine, what would pull her back to the Prime, in this book? Wouldn't bringing her back be the same as bringing back Tarquin? (Since, I can't figure out why she'd otherwise come back to the Prime.)

Sorry, got my Sabine comment in the wrong thread.

[zimmerwald1915]

Re: Sabine, what would pull her back to the Prime, in this book?

Orders from her infernal, tartaruchian, and abyssal masters? She and Qarr are their only named minions left, unless they manage to splice Nale to someone or get him resurrected. If she features again, though, it probably won't be until next book, or in the very closing scene of this book that sets up the next book. Because. . .

Wouldn't bringing her back be the same as bringing back Tarquin? (Since, I can't figure out why she'd otherwise come back to the Prime.)

Tarquin, when he was involved in the plot, was connected through Elan, as was the Linear Guild. But the Linear Guild no longer exists, and at this point, the fiends' (all of them - the Directors, Sabine, and Qarr) plot connects to the main plot through Vaarsuvius. Her and Sabine's rapport has popped up before: in Azure City and during Vaarsuvius's first trip to Hell. It contrasts especially with Vaarsuvius's more straightforwardly antagonistic relationship to Qarr.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

1: Where did this whole question of Gontor’s class come from? Isn’t he explicitly a cleric of Hel?

The joke is that Peelee and others called Gontor Cleric 1+ up until his first two spells where he had to be at least Cleric 8+ with his range of Invisibility Purge and then Cleric 13+ with Summon Monster VII, so the question of his "class" is really joking about ways that he could accomplish these things without being a high leveled cleric, or even high level, or even a cleric.

[Peelee]

I'm a trendsetter!

ETA:

Spoiler: More context

Show

Do we have any information on the statistics of the Exarch?

Yes!

Dwarf, Cleric 1+, vampire template.

Is his Con score able to be calculated by how quickly Durkula drains his blood?

Sure!

Con: 5+

So, uh, is there an estimate of the Exarch's level? Since he could cast Gate with a scroll?

Or can any cleric do it?

A first-level cleric with Wisdom 19 could possibly make the caster level check to activate the scroll above their own caster level, yes.

The Exarch's definitely ordering the worm around, right? Does this give him a lower bound on level?

Sure! Cleric 1.

I wonder how long I can keep this gag running...

Also, invisibility purge has a 5-foot-per-caster-level radius centered on the caster; so if we somehow knew how far away Haley/Vaarsuvius/Blackwing are, we could determine the minimum caster level of the Exarch (or possibly of the invisible magic item the Exarch is UMD-ing, I suppose).

They seem more than 100 feet away to me. I conclude that the Exexarch is epic.
No, no I don't.
Grey Wolf

Wouldn't it be easier to determine the range the worm can see invisible creatures and take that as the maximum distance they were 'spotted'?

Sure!

See Invisibility

You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision

Ok, Summon Monster VII, TVFKAG (The Vampire Formely Known As Gontor) is at least a 13th level Cleric.

Yes, he finally has a level hahahahahahhahahahahhahahah

feels good

At least until I figure out a way to cheese it up so much that I can knock him back down to Cleric 1+.

[Ephemera]

I'm a trendsetter!

ETA:

Spoiler: More context

Show

Technically, I’m pretty sure that feat only requires being a smart-Alex 1+...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or a weisenheimer 2+.

[Jasdoif]

Or a weisenheimer 2+.

I think that one's a skill trick; it's pretty ubiquitous to be a class or feat.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

The link for Roy's Improved Unarmed strike feat has one too many 0's in the url

[D.One]

I'm a trendsetter!

Which is no surprise for a Dragon of your stature

Or a weisenheimer 2+.

I'd be very worried if he pulled an oppenheimer...

[heavyfuel]

It's official that Durkon can cast Regenerate, which means he's Level 13, not 12.

He's been level 13 since he was raised the second time. He hasn't been level 12 for quite a while now, and yet the OP still has him as lv 12

[Reboot]

It's official that Durkon can cast Regenerate, which means he's Level 13, not 12.

He's been level 13 since he was raised the second time. He hasn't been level 12 for quite a while now, and yet the OP still has him as lv 12

Plenty of people (including myself) hace pointed that he should have been 13 out for ages, starting almost immediately after the change to 12. Hel, it has Durkula as 15, so it's not even self-consistent!

[Rogar Demonblud]

No, it was just a typo when revising the data after the kill-resurrect-kill-raise chain.

[MultitudeMan]

Also, Minrah is still listed as both dead and blind! Lots of lovely updates to be done :) .

[zimmerwald1915]

The curator is not your personal pachinko machine, people. He'll get to it when he gets to it.

[Squire Doodad]

Guess who is going to add probably like 6 new characters once they get official names and brief plot relevance~
No? Okay.

[Quartz]

Durkon Allotrope Thundershield...
Skills: Knowledge: Religion not maxed

I'm sorry but I don't follow this. In that last panel Durkon says 'with a few more ranks', not that he doesn't have max ranks. And he could also have rolled very low, even a 1. Remember that he was only 7th or 8th level at the time, so max +10 or +11.

[Aquillion]

I'm sorry but I don't follow this. In that last panel Durkon says 'with a few more ranks', not that he doesn't have max ranks. And he could also have rolled very low, even a 1. Remember that he was only 7th or 8th level at the time, so max +10 or +11.

2+ means "two or more", ie. we've established 2 as the minimum. He could have max ranks, we just don't have concrete proof of that.

[Quartz]

2+ means "two or more", ie. we've established 2 as the minimum. He could have max ranks, we just don't have concrete proof of that.

The statement to which I'm objecting is that his Religion skill is not maxxed because the link does not justify that statement, not that his Religion skill is 2+.

[MultitudeMan]

I'm sorry but I don't follow this. In that last panel Durkon says 'with a few more ranks', not that he doesn't have max ranks. And he could also have rolled very low, even a 1. Remember that he was only 7th or 8th level at the time, so max +10 or +11.

The FAQ in post 1, page 1 of this thread has them all turning level 9 in strip 12, so he had a potential 12 ranks, but I think your point stands. Durkon doesn't explicitly say he could have put a few more ranks in Knowledge (Religion) if he'd chosen, just that he suspects he would find a few more useful at that particular moment.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And not recognizing that a cleric shouting the name of Loki is a problem for a cleric of Thor says he has next to no ranks.

[Riftwolf]

And not recognizing that a cleric shouting the name of Loki is a problem for a cleric of Thor says he has next to no ranks.

He might not have heard Lokis name (it was off-panel and early Oots had abysmal Spot/Listen scores as a running gag), but knowing that for a Northerner Cleric to Rebuke Fire Elementals meant they'd have to be a Cleric of Loki is a bit more obscure. Durkons patchy memory of the Domain Agreement could be construed as part of him not having max ranks, but that's conjecture.

[hamishspence]

The fact that he has a feeling that he should be more worried:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html

implies he overheard some of it.

[Kurald Galain]

Given that he is the Big Bad of the book, it would make sense to add stats for Ex-Gontor the Exarch.
The Exarch
Evil, Dwarf male vampire, Cleric of Hel 13+ (required to cast Summon Monster VII).
Con - (undead)
Wis 19+ (required to cast Gate from a scroll).
Skills: Speak Language: Dwarven (racial).
Abilities: Standard dwarf, cleric, and vampire abilities
Items: Armor, belt, a few scrolls.

There's the discussion about O-Chul's age, which can be summarized as follows (let me know if I missed something): in GDGU Hinjo is 15-16 (per The Giant) and O-Chul is 42 (page 126); so since Hinjo is 24+ now (as stated in WXP), that makes O-Chul 50+ now. As pointed out in the thread, Gin-Jun doesn't say the attack on Redcloak's village was 22 years ago, but that they learned about the Crimson Mantle 22 years ago.

Also, added Frostburn sourcebook, concentrate 12+ to V. Removed dead+blind from Minrah. Fixed link for Xykon's Mass Hold, Roy's IUS; updated Elan's Major Image, and Lien's age to younger than Hinjo, per the most recent source material (i.e. GDGU).

[MultitudeMan]

Kurald Galain, I know you've just done a big update, and thank you, but there's something I've been wondering about. How do we know that Hinjo is level 12? It doesn't have an evidence link. Also, and this really is a tiny thing, there's a typo in Minrah's alignment listing.

Edit: If you're updating the FAQ, I suppose you could put into the level table the first strip that we had conclusive evidence that Durkon is now level 13!

[hamishspence]

There's the discussion about O-Chul's age, which can be summarized as follows (let me know if I missed something): in GDGU Hinjo is 15-16 (per The Giant) and O-Chul is 42 (page 126); so since Hinjo is 24+ now (as stated in WXP), that makes O-Chul 50+ now. As pointed out in the thread, Gin-Jun doesn't say the attack on Redcloak's village was 22 years ago, but that they learned about the Crimson Mantle 22 years ago.

You sum up correctly.

It should be noted that this also casts doubt on Lien's "5 years older than Hinjo" age (Don't Split the Party bonus strip) - the stories in Good Deeds Gone Unpunished are specifically in reverse chronological order, and Lien appears to be a young teenager in her story (she's noticeably shorter than the adults around her, and she isn't now).

A paladin exactly matching the appearance of one in How The Paladin Got His Scar, but with new white streaks in her hair, appears in Lien's story - supporting the statement at the start of the book that the stories are in reverse chronological order.

Conclusion - Lien's age should be specified as having been possibly retconned.

Kurald Galain, I know you've just done a big update, and thank you, but there's something I've been wondering about. How do we know that Hinjo is level 12? It doesn't have an evidence link

11th level or higher, on the grounds that he has at least 3 attacks per round:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html

[Kurald Galain]

Kurald Galain, I know you've just done a big update, and thank you, but there's something I've been wondering about. How do we know that Hinjo is level 12?

Thanks According to my sources, his attacks per round in 453 makes him level 11+, so I've updated accordingly. Also fixed Minrah, and updated level chart.

It should be noted that this also casts doubt on Lien's "5 years older than Hinjo" age (Don't Split the Party bonus strip) - the stories in Good Deeds Gone Unpunished are specifically in reverse chronological order, and Lien appears to be a young teenager in her story (she's noticeably shorter than the adults around her, and she isn't now).

I concur; I've updated Lien's age to younger than Hinjo, per the most recent source material (i.e. GDGU).

[MultitudeMan]

Thanks According to my sources, his attacks per round in 453 makes him level 11+, so I've updated accordingly. Also fixed Minrah, and updated level chart.

Thanks KG, you've given this aspie a nice warm feeling; another wrong in the universe has been put right!

[MultitudeMan]

Kurald Galain, is it unacceptably pedantic for me to point out grammatical errors in the stats posts? Please note that "Yes, it is" is an acceptable answer :) .

[Reboot]

Minrah Elle Shaleshoe
Lawful good, Dwarf female, unspecified guard class 1 / Cleric 5 (required to cast Searing Light).
Wis 13+ (required to cast Searing Light).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, cleric class abilities.
Skills: Spellcraft.
Items: Holy symbol, warhammer, armor, helmet.

Two points:
1) How do we know "unspecified guard class" is strictly 1, not 1+?
2) The cite for Cleric 5 is #1093 - but that was before she died & was raised, which will have cost her a level. Shouldn't this be "Cleric 4+ (Cleric 5 required to cast Searing Light, subsequent loss of level due to Raise Dead)"?