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2019-03-19, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Penthouse Suite
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Wouldn't it be easier to determine the range the worm can see invisible creatures and take that as the maximum distance they were 'spotted'?
Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!
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2019-03-19, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-03-19, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
It doesn't have a range cap - if you can see the creature, you can see the invisible creature at the same distance.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-03-19, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Penthouse Suite
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2019-03-19, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Could we not directly compare the heights of Haley/V and Gontor. Gontor is exactly the same height as Durkon* (see #1111). Durkon is about 2/3 the height of Haley. In the penultimate image of #1159, Haley is about 30 pixels tall. Half of Gontor is about 110 pixels. So Gontor is 220 pixels tall. If Haley were standing next to him, she would be 220 * 3/2 = 330 pixels. So Haley is 330/30 = 11 times smaller than if she were in the foreground.
An average dwarf is 52 inches tall, so each pixel is 4.23 inches. If we assume the "camera" is 52" from Gontor (for simplicity) then 52/52 * 3/2 = x/(30*4.23), where x is the distance to Haley. So Haley and V are about 16 feet away, making Gontor at least 3rd level, though of course he'd have to be 5th to cast the spell.Let's say Durkon is 48 inches tall. Then each pixel is 0.218 inches. So Haley appears to be 30 * 0.218 = 6.5 inches in this panel. Let's say Haley is 70 inches tall. Then y/6.5 = x / 70, where y is the distance from the viewer to Gontor, and x is the distance from the viewer to Haley. If we assume the viewer is about 5 feet from Gontor, then x = 70 * 60/6.5 = 54 feet, making Gontor at least 11th level.Last edited by knag; 2019-03-19 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Math
You found the secret message! Don't forget to edit the wiki!
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2019-03-19, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Last edited by D.One; 2019-03-19 at 02:19 PM.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-03-19, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- A Humorous Location
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
To find Haley's (and exarch*'s) exact height you can take Belkar's height (which is known, given he's a halfling, all ~3' tall in the SRD) in a panel they're standing next to each other in the same linear plane and do the same with pixel heights. in the new art, 1030 panel 5 is a good example.
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2019-03-19, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Ok, I guess I started this, I have to finish it.
Going from #956, panel 7, which has all three:
Belkar: 83 px => 36/83 = 0.434 in/px
Haley: 123 px => 123 px * 0.434 in/px = 53.3 in
Durkon: 101 px => 101 px * 0.434 in/px = 43 in
Checking with #953, panel 6:
Belkar: 130 px => 36/130 = 0.27 in/px
Durkon: 155 px => 155 px * 0.27 in/px = 43 in
Checking with #1030, panel 5:
Belkar: 88 px => 36/88 = 0.41 in/px
Haley: 134 px => 134 px * 0.41 in/p = 55 in
So given the assumption that Belkar is canonically 3 ft tall, we are left with the result that Durkon is only 3' 7", short but within range for a dwarf, and that Haley is a surprisingly short human woman at 4' 7" (giving her the best measurement). That's short, but still within range for the random height generation in the SRD. We'll leave aside that this means that Elan and Roy (and indeed most humans) are quite short. Our assumption about Belkar is probably not great, but we'll go with it for now.
Plugging this result into my earlier analysis with regard to #1159, panel 10, and refining that measurement we find that Haley is 28 px and 0.5 * Gontor = 90 px. With Gontor's height pegged to Durkon's, that's 43/180 = .24 in/px. Haley thus appears to be 6.7 in. Finally, x = 55 * 60/6.7 = 493 in, or 41 ft from the viewer to Haley. With 5 feet to Gontor, that's only 36 feet from Gontor to Haley, putting Gontor's minimum level at a modest level 8.
If instead we allow Belkar the maximum halfling height of 40 in, the resulting heights for Durkon and Haley are 48 and 60 in. respectively. The distance from Gontor to Haley is thus just over 40 feet and the result is unchanged. So we see that this analysis is fairly insensitive to the initial assumption of Belkar's height, relying instead on the relative heights between the characters. However, the result is more sensitive to changes in the assumed distance between the observer and Gontor. An error of over 1 Gontor cleric level / ft accrues for faults in this assumption.
Q.E.D.You found the secret message! Don't forget to edit the wiki!
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2019-03-19, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Yeah, the big problem with using either the heights of characters or the perspective of the bridge (which are both fundamentally the same method) is that either depends on the vantage point location, which we have no good information on.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2019-03-19, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
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- A Humorous Location
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
There's also that with the OOTS art style it'd be hard to draw Halflings and Gnomes with the same amount of emoting as the humans and other medium sized humanoids, they'd have to be drawn as if they're much taller or the medium size-ers have to be drawn much shorter. You'd have to sacrifice the amount of space you can draw faces on those heads in order to draw their height more accurately to SRD.
Anyway hopefully we get some actual high level spellcasting from Gontor*. Then we won't have to rely on probably-not-accurate perspective measurements.
But to me 8th level seems pretty close to what it'll be.
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2019-03-20, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
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2019-03-20, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-03-20, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
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2019-03-22, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Scotland
- Gender
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
The last panel of #1159 indicates that V thinks Haley is the same level as V. If they were known to be different levels, V, being the arch-pedant, would have said, "... adventurers of our levels."
Since one or both might have levelled up after defeating Durkula this doesn't actually tell us if they are 16th or 17th level, but we do know that V is at least 16th level.
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2019-03-22, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
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- Netherlands
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2019-03-22, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2019-03-23, 03:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-03-23, 03:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-03-24, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Hey, could Zz'dtri have a Daazix's Vest? That boosts preexisting SR by a whopping +5; combined with Boost Spell Resistance would up it to a ridiculous 33, which is even higher than the friggin' Nightcrawler that Gonetor just summoned!
It's from the DMGII, if you're curious. Heck, the original creator was a male drow as well!Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2019-03-24, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- A Humorous Location
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
They have 28+ already, which would include 33. It isn't required that they have this vest to have the fight with V go the exact same way, and usually it would seem the people who add things only do it when they have their items revealed in-comic, which Z did not do with some vest before the vampire neck snap. Sooooo, yeah. It's possible but people don't just add items because they can if they don't change anything and haven't been confirmed.
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2019-03-24, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2019-03-24, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Well, that sentence might be just generally ambiguous, since he'd have no reason to give a detailed explanation of his build to his archenemy and he doesn't speak enough to do that either. "Stuff" doesn't have to just mean items, I guess.
Yes, I know I'm shooting myself in the foot, but are there any other feats that boost SR?Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-03-24, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- A Humorous Location
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
I'm not arguing that he doesn't have an item at all, I'm saying we don't know if it's this vest. The last FAQ in the list answers why we aren't going to change "and an item" to "magic vest"
I don't know. But obviously enough to get to 28+ spell resistance already, at the very least.
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2019-03-24, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Well, that's the most likely option, at least IMO. The original DMGII fluff says it was the creation of a male drow wizard, so I wouldn't be exactly surprised to see it on him, in a non-typical form at the very least. Especially since it says the titular Daazix did weather the spells of the drow clerics, but not their maces - which is quite similar with what happened to Z. Plus, 25k gp is affordable even with NPC WBL at the levels they are, so it's not a far shot.
I don't know. But obviously enough to get to 28+ spell resistance already, at the very least.
Also, I just found there's a feat called Psychic Refusal, which adds +4 more against mind-affecting spells. Maybe that too? After all, it's from Drow of the Underdark - yet another drow-fluffed option.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2019-03-25, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Definitely Somewhere
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
What is meant by “nova” in #935 (posting from mobile, so I can’t link it) and does this determine any of Laurin’s stats?
Last edited by Sniccups; 2019-03-25 at 01:06 PM.
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2019-03-25, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Nova (more accurately, going nova) just means using everything as fast as possible, rather than holding something back for possible later fights. It's a style of resource management in the game, one generally favored by NPCs since the DM knows they'll only be around for the one fight.
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2019-03-25, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Definitely Somewhere
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
The Greatest Threads Of GiantITP (in my opinion):
A story of the exact wrong way to run a campaign.
The best thread derailment of all time.
The "canonical" list of Mostly Useless Magic Items.
A ridiculous campaign.
Weird dreams.
Working on a laptop connected to the Internet is like writing on a typewriter welded to a circus. -Unknown
My Nexus character
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2019-03-25, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Correct me if I'm missing something (and I probably am), but Vampire Durkon could cast Symbol of Death, an 8th level spell, so that means he was previously a 15th+ level character. Now, he was raised twice, so his new level is at least 13, not 12 as this thread indicatesLast edited by heavyfuel; 2019-03-25 at 05:03 PM.
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2019-03-30, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
If I may be permitted to ask a dumb question about D&D3.5e, is there anything similar to archetypes or other alternate class options? I was wondering if there was some way O-Chul could be a paladin variant that uses WIS rather than CHA for some key features, but I'm not aware of anything in D&D that would allow for this.
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2019-03-30, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
There are some options for alternative class features, yes. I don't know of any off the top of my head that would allow a Paladin to substitute WIS for CHA, but it also wouldn't particularly surprise me if there was such an alternative class feature/variant class or a feat that allowed a Paladin to do so somewhere.