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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Post Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    This page on the homebrewery

    This is a subclass based on the 3.5e Aberration Blood feat.

    The related fluff:
    Circle of the Outer Planes
    Most druids detest aberrations and think of them as outside nature, but some view them simply as examples of nature from an extreme and alien world. Members of the Circle of Far Planes fall in the second group, transforming into aberrations and monstrosities along with those creatures native to the material plane.

    Aberrant Wild Shape
    Starting at 2nd level, you can use your wild shape to assume the forms of Aberrations and Monstrosities you have seen, but must abide by the other limitations there.

    Abilities dependent on the mental stats of creatures you turn into use your mental stats instead, and know any additional languages and at will spells (but no other spells) typical to creatures of that type while you remain in that form. However, you do not gain any abilities that allow you to supernaturally control a target or reduce another creature's stats. Furthermore, any target affected by abilities you gain while transformed end after 24 hours, if they have not already done so.
    Yeah, this is the main effect of the subclass. Unfortunately, there aren't many such creatures available at 2nd level (even if your druid has seen them).

    Bonus Cantrips
    When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you learn two additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice. These count as druid cantrips for you, but they don't count against your number of cantrips known.
    This is meant to shore up the benefits at such a low level. These benefits also work when not wild shaped, which I consider important for differentiating this subclass from Circle of the Moon.

    Circle Spells
    At 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level you gain access to circle spells tied to aberrations. Once you gain access to a circle spell, you always have it prepared, and it doesn't count against the number of spells you can prepare each day. If you gain access to a spell that doesn't appear on the druid spell list, the spell is nonetheless a druid spell for you.
    Druid Levels Circle Spells
    3rd Alter Self, Misty Step
    5th Protection From Energy, Waterbreathing
    7th 9th Banishment, Dimension Door
    9th 11th Contagion, Far Step Wrath of Nature
    I'm a little worried about having a massive number of spells that aren't on the druid spell list. Not sure what to replace them with, though. Both for being thematically appropriate and not being overly powerful.

    Master of Form
    At 6th level you can spend 10 minutes performing a special ritual, at the end of which you can change your physical form to gain one of the following benefits, choosing an effect at the end of a long rest. The effect lasts until you choose a different one, and You retain the effect while transformed.
    • Darkvision out to a range of 30 feet 60 feet.
    • You gain a 30 foot swim speed.
    • Proficiency in Constitution saving throws
    • You see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, out to a range of 30 feet.
    • You can see into the Ethereal Plane, out to a range of 30 feet.
    • Resistance to acid, poison, or psychic damage (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    • You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, or petrified (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    • You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, and petrified.
    • You can communicate telepathically to humanoids you can see within 30 feet of you, in any language you know. This goes not grant the humanoid any ability to telepathically respond or understand what you say.
    Similar to the School of Transmutation's transmuter's stone. But only applying to yourself. I'm considering letting you change it when you use your wild shape. Too strong?

    Extraplanar Ward
    When you reach 10th level, you have advantage on saving throws against effects produced by Aberrations, Elementals, and Monstrosities and you are immune to poison and disease.
    Based on the Circle of Land's Nature's Ward.

    Empowered Aberrant Wild Shape
    Starting at 14th level, you can wild shape into aberrations and monstrosities with a CR as high as 2. This does not change the beasts you can transform into.
    Powering up your transformations, but not to the level of a Moon Druid.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2019-02-05 at 10:21 PM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Wild Shape
    A few concerns here that should be pointed out. There are some aberrations/Monstrosities that can cast spells. Are they able to do that in wildshaped form or not? Also, Rust Monster and Intellect Devourer are two possibilities that could be extremely painful and dangerous to give to a PC. I'm not sure it's overpowered, just something to watch out for.


    Master of Form - Don't let the person change with wildshaping. This is a pretty powerful ability in giving it's choices, but making someone choose at the end of a long rest

    Extraplanar Ward Where did Elementals come from all of the sudden? It just seems odd since they haven't been mentioned once before now.

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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Wild Shape
    A few concerns here that should be pointed out. There are some aberrations/Monstrosities that can cast spells. Are they able to do that in wildshaped form or not? Also, Rust Monster and Intellect Devourer are two possibilities that could be extremely painful and dangerous to give to a PC. I'm not sure it's overpowered, just something to watch out for.
    I'm torn over how to implement spellcasting. Would it be reasonable to grant at will spells, but not limited use spells?

    But I will add something saying you can't use any abilities that reduce a target's stats or take control of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Master of Form - Don't let the person change with wildshaping. This is a pretty powerful ability in giving it's choices, but making someone choose at the end of a long rest
    Any commentary on the power level of the choices? Obviously overpowered ones, for example?

    Although now that I think about it, I might take the bonuses away while you're transformed into aberrations and monstrosities. It's meant to represent having extraplanar influence and transforming into extraplanar versions of beasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Extraplanar Ward Where did Elementals come from all of the sudden? It just seems odd since they haven't been mentioned once before now.
    I kind of wanted to grant some bonus against other extraplanar creatures, but figured such a bonus against fiends would be unreasonable.
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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'm torn over how to implement spellcasting. Would it be reasonable to grant at will spells, but not limited use spells?
    That seems decent enough of a compromise. There is a lot of power in having additional spells while Wild Shaped. I've got a Moon Druid that got a Batest Temple Cat from Kobold Press Tome of Beasts. It was way to much to have the extra healing spells.


    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Any commentary on the power level of the choices? Obviously overpowered ones, for example?
    Here is what I see when I look at the choices.

    Darkvision out to a range of 30 feet.
    Darkvision is a level 2 spells and many wildshape forms have it already. I would rarely choose this.

    You gain a 30 foot swim speed.
    Would use it every once in awhile. Not a great choice, but a niche one. So it is fine the way it is.

    Proficiency in Constitution saving throws
    Here we go. This would be my go to choice 95% of the time. There are so many Con saves required out there and this ability replaces the need for resilient Con in a Druid. This is likely the most powerful choice.

    You see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, out to a range of 30 feet.
    Niche use when you know you are going into a place where invisibility is common. Seems fine to me considering what you lose.

    You can see into the Ethereal Plane, out to a range of 30 feet.
    Seems more flavorful than useful outside of a few monsters and abilities. I'm good with this.

    Resistance to acid, poison, or psychic damage (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    This is a decent default choice when you don't need to worry about concentration, especially when you know you what you will be going up against. This would be my choice 4% of the time.

    You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, or petrified (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    Last 1% of my choices. I'm not worried about deafened, since it has really lost it's punch. Blindness sucks, but you have Lesser Restoration to recover it in your spell choices. When fighting something that petrifies you this would definitely be my choice.


    I wouldn't take it away when you are wildshaped, there is nothing wrong with giving this at the same time. Other than the constitution option, nothing seems more powerful than the Moon Druid or Shepherd Druid.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Yeah, looks like Master of Form is really finicky. So I'm going to be questioning quite a bit of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Darkvision out to a range of 30 feet.
    Darkvision is a level 2 spells and many wildshape forms have it already. I would rarely choose this.
    I'll extend the range to match the spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Proficiency in Constitution saving throws
    Here we go. This would be my go to choice 95% of the time. There are so many Con saves required out there and this ability replaces the need for resilient Con in a Druid. This is likely the most powerful choice.
    I'll drop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Resistance to acid, poison, or psychic damage (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    This is a decent default choice when you don't need to worry about concentration, especially when you know you what you will be going up against. This would be my choice 4% of the time.
    I mean, you are supposed to be using this to get an appropriate bonus. Without concentration as an option, do these become too powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, or petrified (your choice whenever you choose this benefit).
    Last 1% of my choices. I'm not worried about deafened, since it has really lost it's punch. Blindness sucks, but you have Lesser Restoration to recover it in your spell choices. When fighting something that petrifies you this would definitely be my choice.
    What about one choice for petrification, and a separate choice granting immunity to both being blinded and deafened?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I wouldn't take it away when you are wildshaped, there is nothing wrong with giving this at the same time. Other than the constitution option, nothing seems more powerful than the Moon Druid or Shepherd Druid.
    Technically, level 6 is when moon druids gain the ability to wild shape into CR 2 beasts.

    I'm still slightly nervous about not having any way to change your choice during the adventuring day. I want the options to all be rather niche, which increases the odds whichever one you initially pick isn't useful. Especially considering several of these abilities are granted by spells.

    Considering it also uses your wild shape to assume the form of an aberration or monstrosity, would it be reasonable to allow far planes druids to change their choice of bonus from Master of Form by expending a use of wild shape as well?
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    When using this class you would need to have agreement with the DM that if it became to powerful or to weak you would adjust it throughout the campaign. Another idea, although it will be a lot more work for you, may be to forego the idea of having to have seen the extraplanar being and instead say "you can change into these creatures" and then give a list at each CR. This will control what they can turn into and you can remove the options where they would be able to cast spells. Then, if the person wants to add something else they can approach the DM on a case by case basis.



    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I mean, you are supposed to be using this to get an appropriate bonus. Without concentration as an option, do these become too powerful?
    These move up in how often they would be used, but you are still talking about niche damage types in acid, poison, and psychic. I would see poison being the most common choice here for the damage type. I don't see them as being to powerful assuming that you can't change them at will. If the changes are limited, then it's not to powerful at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    What about one choice for petrification, and a separate choice granting immunity to both being blinded and deafened?
    I see this as being used more often using this method. If it were me I would make this "You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, and petrified" without the choice. That wouldn't be to powerful compared to resistance to a damage type. Many campaigns go by without running into anything with petrify. And even if you do, the rest of your party is at risk of it, so it wouldn't be a wasted encounter.



    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'm still slightly nervous about not having any way to change your choice during the adventuring day. I want the options to all be rather niche, which increases the odds whichever one you initially pick isn't useful. Especially considering several of these abilities are granted by spells.

    Considering it also uses your wild shape to assume the form of an aberration or monstrosity, would it be reasonable to allow far planes druids to change their choice of bonus from Master of Form by expending a use of wild shape as well?
    Making them expend a wild shape choice to change it out is a pretty hefty resource usage. However, it would solve the issue of making it changable at will, while still making it expensive. Another choice would be that they could change it at the end of a short or long rest. This would allow changes to happen, but it would limit the amount of times it could be done as well. Also, it wouldn't require the PC to use up other resources. If that doesn't work for you, maybe you could make the PC spend 5 minutes on a ritual to change it. This way, it couldn't be changed mid battle, but would still be something you have to think about when changing (and you need to be protected by your teammates).


    A few other options for this worth considering that are fairly niche.
    • You gain advantage against fear spells and effects (if you are one with the Far Planes, things in the material plane aren't that scary anymore)
    • You gain advantage against mind altering spells and effects like Dissonant Laughter, Confusion, Hypnotic Circle, and other such effects.
    • I feel like there should be something about tentacles as well, but I can't figure out what.
    • Maybe giving telepathy if you share a language?








    A few other things that you could look at for spells that are fitting, but not excessively powerful. As a question, why is it 3,5,9,11 instead of 3,5,7,9 like the Land Druid?
    Level 3: Protection from Evil and Good
    Level 5: Augury
    Level 9: Blink
    Level 11: Contact Other Plane, Far Step, Antilife Shell

    Blink is the one I would be most concerned about from a power perspective, but it is so fitting thematicially.

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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    When using this class you would need to have agreement with the DM that if it became to powerful or to weak you would adjust it throughout the campaign. Another idea, although it will be a lot more work for you, may be to forego the idea of having to have seen the extraplanar being and instead say "you can change into these creatures" and then give a list at each CR. This will control what they can turn into and you can remove the options where they would be able to cast spells. Then, if the person wants to add something else they can approach the DM on a case by case basis.
    My initial reaction is to recoil in horror at the idea of the subclass not being compatible with things added in the future.
    I'll look back over the forms the subclass grants. I'm hoping that isn't necessary, but I'm not going to insist it to the detriment of the homebrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I see this as being used more often using this method. If it were me I would make this "You have immunity to being blinded, deafened, and petrified" without the choice. That wouldn't be to powerful compared to resistance to a damage type. Many campaigns go by without running into anything with petrify. And even if you do, the rest of your party is at risk of it, so it wouldn't be a wasted encounter.
    There's a power in 3.5e that works like this, so I'm okay adding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Making them expend a wild shape choice to change it out is a pretty hefty resource usage. However, it would solve the issue of making it changable at will, while still making it expensive. Another choice would be that they could change it at the end of a short or long rest. This would allow changes to happen, but it would limit the amount of times it could be done as well. Also, it wouldn't require the PC to use up other resources. If that doesn't work for you, maybe you could make the PC spend 5 minutes on a ritual to change it. This way, it couldn't be changed mid battle, but would still be something you have to think about when changing (and you need to be protected by your teammates).
    A ritual sounds like a good compromise between speed and limiting how often the PC can change options.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    A few other options for this worth considering that are fairly niche.
    • You gain advantage against fear spells and effects (if you are one with the Far Planes, things in the material plane aren't that scary anymore)
    • You gain advantage against mind altering spells and effects like Dissonant Laughter, Confusion, Hypnotic Circle, and other such effects.
    • I feel like there should be something about tentacles as well, but I can't figure out what.
    • Maybe giving telepathy if you share a language?
    I'll add one way telepathy with a shared language.

    "mind altering" doesn't seem to be a category in 5e, and I think the fear effect is a bit strong (although that might be my experience). Tentacles, hm. A climbing speed? An additional natural weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    A few other things that you could look at for spells that are fitting, but not excessively powerful. As a question, why is it 3,5,9,11 instead of 3,5,7,9 like the Land Druid?
    Level 3: Protection from Evil and Good
    Level 5: Augury
    Level 9: Blink
    Level 11: Contact Other Plane, Far Step, Antilife Shell

    Blink is the one I would be most concerned about from a power perspective, but it is so fitting thematicially.
    It is different from the land druid because I was too busy racking my brain for spells that I forgot to look at which levels I was writing down.

    Neither the Circle of Land nor the Circle of Spores grant 1st level spells, but these are generally good ideas. I'll swap in Far Step, but I'm worried about granting eight spells druids don't normally get.
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    Default Re: Circle of the Outer Planes (PEACH)

    Okay, I think I've managed to compile the list of forms such druids will have.

    Spoiler: 2nd
    Show
    Male Steeder
    Neogi Hatchling
    Star Spawn Grue
    Slaad Tadpole
    The Wreched
    Young Kruthic


    Spoiler: 4th
    Show
    Amphisbaena
    Chitine
    Ixitxachitl
    Piercer
    Rust Monster
    Worg
    Zorbo


    Spoiler: 6th
    Show
    Aldani
    Category 1 Krasis
    Choker
    Cockatrice
    Darkmantle
    Death Dog
    Elbis
    Female Steeder
    Flumph
    Gazer
    Giant Strider
    Harpy
    Hippogriff
    Ice Toad
    Peryton
    Pterafolk
    Su-monster


    Spoiler: 14th
    Show
    Adult Kruthic
    Ankheg
    Berbalang
    Carrion Crawler
    Centaur
    Ettercap
    Gibbering Mouther
    Grick
    Griffon
    Intellect Devourer
    Ixitxachitl Cleric
    Merrow
    Mimic
    Nothic
    Purple Wormling
    Shadow Mastiff
    Shell Shark
    Skyjet Roc
    Vampiric Ixitxachitl


    These should be sorted by both CR and movement type.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2019-07-20 at 11:12 AM.
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