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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Minor Short Rest Rework

    Short rests, in 5E, are a bit problematic. They take a while.

    Initially the idea was to extend the length of time each rest takes (from one minute to ten to an hour) but that can result in some oddities-namely, if you have an encounter that eats resources, two hours of easy walking, and then another encounter, that eats up your one minute short rest even though you had two hours.

    So, in that vein, here's the rule:

    You can take a maximum of three short rests per long rest. One may be as short as one minute, one may be as short as ten minutes, and one may be as short as an hour. The party does NOT have to rest together.

    What this means is that it's easy as hell to get one short rest in per long rest-if you can't find a minute between encounters to take a breath, your DM is being CRAZY BRUTAL that day.
    It's pretty easy to get two-ten minutes, while having a good chance of having to find a safe spot, isn't too hard to manage.
    A third rest, though, is harder, and requires something more solid.

    Also, by allowing the party to rest separately, it means that, for instance, a party with a Fighter and a Warlock, where the Fighter goes ham (Action Surge and Second Wind afterwards) and the Warlock does not (Eldritch Blast for days) doesn't punish the Warlock by eating his one minute rest just because the Fighter needs it.

    Thoughts? Ideas on how to improve?
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    I currently do something similar and it works like a charm. An hour definitely feels like two long. I think you just have to bridge the logic that HP does not represent health, but just to avoid damage. (So its more like stamina) With that in mind, you only need a short breather to actually recover from a fight.

    However, i'm not sure if you need to limit it to three. Characters have Hit Dice for a reason. If they get messed up they'll use more. If I take 10 breathers that use one hit dice, or 1 breather that uses ten, i don't see a big difference from a balance perspective.

    Good work.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    Quote Originally Posted by John Out West View Post
    I currently do something similar and it works like a charm. An hour definitely feels like two long. I think you just have to bridge the logic that HP does not represent health, but just to avoid damage. (So its more like stamina) With that in mind, you only need a short breather to actually recover from a fight.

    However, i'm not sure if you need to limit it to three. Characters have Hit Dice for a reason. If they get messed up they'll use more. If I take 10 breathers that use one hit dice, or 1 breather that uses ten, i don't see a big difference from a balance perspective.

    Good work.
    I mean, I could technically add a fourth, fifth, sixth, etc. short rest at increasingly large times, but I figured there'd be little point to it. If you can hole up for, say, four hours, you can probably manage eight. Even one hour stretches it a little, though stuff like Rope Trick helps.

    How long do you make short rests?
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    I have three tiers: 5 Minute breathers, 1 Hour Rests, and 8 hour Resets.

    The breather is used to spend Hit dice and get back HP. 1 Hour Rests are for if someone gets knocked out or wounded. 8 Hours resets everything.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    Quote Originally Posted by John Out West View Post
    I have three tiers: 5 Minute breathers, 1 Hour Rests, and 8 hour Resets.

    The breather is used to spend Hit dice and get back HP. 1 Hour Rests are for if someone gets knocked out or wounded. 8 Hours resets everything.
    See, my issue with making every Short Rest 5 minutes is that it's too easy to get back all Short Rest resources for every fight.

    Honestly, you could achieve a similar thing to my proposal by just capping the number of Short Rests per long rest.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    I'm not sure to which Short Rest Resources you are speaking of. The only one i know of is Hit Dice, which only regenerates on a long rest.

    Five minutes can be a long time. If the next fight is just a room away, if the players start being chased, if the building is collapsing underneath them, etc. Its not hard for a DM to not let the players rest, even if its just for five minutes.

    Edit: Right, things like Warlock Powers. It makes sense that Warlock Powers take an hour. Breathers, like i mentioned, are mostly HP and not for powers.
    Last edited by John Out West; 2019-02-08 at 08:37 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    Quote Originally Posted by John Out West View Post
    I'm not sure to which Short Rest Resources you are speaking of. The only one i know of is Hit Dice, which only regenerates on a long rest.

    Five minutes can be a long time. If the next fight is just a room away, if the players start being chased, if the building is collapsing underneath them, etc. Its not hard for a DM to not let the players rest, even if its just for five minutes.

    Edit: Right, things like Warlock Powers. It makes sense that Warlock Powers take an hour. Breathers, like i mentioned, are mostly HP and not for powers.
    Warlock Slots.
    Action Surge, Second Wind.
    Ki.
    Bardic Inspiration.

    There's a LOT that happens on short rests.

    And while I agree it's fully possible to keep the players busy, running encounter to encounter, I want to be able to space encounters out a little more without letting them be at full charge on every one.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    That's fair. 5e is sort of an odd system, in that some characters actually require rests as part of their character's balance. Unlike abilities like spell slots which gave a daily/game allotment of power which had to be rationed, these short rest powers can be used multiple times in a given day/game.

    That is to say, you might be undermined in your efforts by the poor planning of the original creators of 5e. The system i'm currently using doesn't have these kinds of short rest powers, and i haven't played 5e in years. I still believe that 5 minutes is the correct amount of time, but you may have to treat the powers you've mentioned like the Barbarians Rage, where you can do it a few times a day.

    In that vein of thought, if we were to use Barbarians as our model, then from level 1 & 2 they would be able to "recharge" these abilities 2 times per day during a breather, 3 times from level 3-5, 4 times from level 6-11, 5 times from level 12-16, 6 times at level 17-19, and an unlimited amount of times at level 20.

    That seems reasonable to me.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    Quote Originally Posted by John Out West View Post
    That's fair. 5e is sort of an odd system, in that some characters actually require rests as part of their character's balance. Unlike abilities like spell slots which gave a daily/game allotment of power which had to be rationed, these short rest powers can be used multiple times in a given day/game.

    That is to say, you might be undermined in your efforts by the poor planning of the original creators of 5e. The system i'm currently using doesn't have these kinds of short rest powers, and i haven't played 5e in years. I still believe that 5 minutes is the correct amount of time, but you may have to treat the powers you've mentioned like the Barbarians Rage, where you can do it a few times a day.

    In that vein of thought, if we were to use Barbarians as our model, then from level 1 & 2 they would be able to "recharge" these abilities 2 times per day during a breather, 3 times from level 3-5, 4 times from level 6-11, 5 times from level 12-16, 6 times at level 17-19, and an unlimited amount of times at level 20.

    That seems reasonable to me.
    No, that wouldn't really work. Maybe tweaking the numbers could result in something workable, but using the Barbarian's numbers does NOT work.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Minor Short Rest Rework

    This is a good rule that I can see put to good effect in a lot of games, but im just a little too fond of putting my players under strict time deadlines to feel comfortable with 1-min or 10-min rests happening just whenever.

    Personally, when I DM the rule of thumb is you cannot Rest without setting up Camp and that the more comfortable the Camp the sooner you gain the benefits of a Rest. You may not benefit from more than 1 Long Rest and up to 4 Short Rests per 24 hours.

    Meager Camp: Bedrolls/blankets laid on the open ground, no campfire, only travel rations and water to make a meal - 1hr SR/8hr LR

    Modest Camp: Bedrolls set up inside of tents or other simple shelter, campfire for warmth and light. Simple Meal (Freshly foraged Fruit & Vegetables, plain roasted meat). 30min SR/4hr LR

    Fine Camp: Sleeping on a mattress indoors or in an enclosed vehicle such as a Covered Wagon or Ship, eating a fully prepared and seasoned meal with ale or wine to drink. 15min SR/2hr LR

    Of note is that I rule that Tiny Hut only protects against enviromental effects and not attacks, however it comes with a magical campfire that automatically seasons food cooked in it (a la Prestidigitation) and the floor inside the hemisphere is soft and slightly springy (like a good mattress). This allows a party the ability to rest as if in a Fine Camp so long as they have access to fresh food and drink, or as a Modest Camp if reduced to travel rations and water.

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