Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Post Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    This page on the Homebrewery
    You know; exotic weapons. A slight bonus to fighters.

    Although I do have a feat at the end useful for some mounted combatants and classes that don't get additional extra attacks. Proficiency is meant t be obtainable with training or the Weapon Master feat.

    Added and rewritten martial weapons:
    Name Cost Damage Weight Properties
    Goedendag 15 gp 1d10 Bludgeoning 9 lb Heavy, Reach Two-handed
    Lance 12 gp 1d12 Piercing 6 lb Awkward, Reach, Rider

    Melee Exotic Weapons
    Name Cost Damage Weight Properties
    Bastard Sword 25 gp 1d10 Slashing 5 lb Unelaborate(Greatsword)
    Chakram 40 gp 1d8 Slashing 4 lb Thrown (20/60)
    Horseman's Pick 35 gp 1d12 Bludgeoning 10 lb Heavy, Rider, Unelaborate(Maul)
    Kanobo 30 gp 2d6 Piercing 12 lb Heavy, Two-Handed
    Partisan 25 gp 2d6 Piercing 14 lb Heavy, Reach, Two-Handed
    Spiked Chain 15 gp 1d6 Piercing 5 lb Finesse, Reach
    Trident 10 gp 2d4 Piercing 4 lb Versatile(2d6)

    Exotic Ranged Weapons
    Name Cost Damage Weight Properties
    Arquebus 250 gp 2d6 Piercing 16 lb Ammunition, Range (20/60), Long-Loading(2), Two-Handed
    Blunderbus 150 gp 2d8 Piercing 12 lb Ammunition, Range (20/60), Long-Loading(1), Two-Handed
    Carbine 350 gp 2d6 Piercing 8 lb Ammunition, Range (15/45), Long-Loading(1), Rider
    Fire Lance 80 gp 1d10 Fire 8 lb Ammunition, Range (15/45), Long-Loading(2), Two-Handed
    Hand Cannon 75 gp 2d4 Piercing 10 lb Ammunition, Range (15/45), Long-Loading(1), Two-Handed
    Thunderstone 30 gp 1d4 Thunder 4 lb Thrown (Range 15/45)

    Weapon Properties
    Many weapons have special properties related to their use, as shown in the Weapons table.

    Ammunition (Flaming): This weapon uses a flame charge as ammunition, unleashing a line of fire against a target. As a result, there is no ammunition left over to use again.

    Awkward: This reach weapon inflicts disadvantage when you use it to attack a target within 5 feet of you.

    Long-Loading: This weapon takes two ahnds and a full minute to load a single piece of ammunition. However, some some such weapons can hold multiple peices of ammunion at once.

    Additionally, when you make an attack with such a weapon, you must also roll a d6 to determine the true target. On a 1, the attack simply misses, using up the ammunition. On a 2, the attack is made against a random creature other than yourself within 5 feet of the target instead. If the character does not wish to hit the true target, they can forgo the attack roll, but still use up the ammunition.

    Rider: Some weapons are designed for use on mounts, and are harder to wield without one. Such a weapon requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted.

    Unelaborate: The weapon is easier to use when held in both hands. If a character is proficient with the listed weapon, they count as proficient when using this weapon in both hands.

    Name Cost Weight
    Bullets (20) 5 gp 5 lb
    Flame Charge(5) 10 gp 10 lb

    Feats:
    Trained Arquebusier
    You have trained with a firearm, gaining the following benefits.

    • You gain proficiency with the Arquebus, Blunderbus, Carbine, Fire Lance, or Hand Cannon (your choice).
    • When you roll the miss chance for a weapon with the Long-Loading property, you may roll a d12 instead of a d6.
    • You can draw and stow one Loading or Long-Loading weapon as an interaction when you would normally only be able to draw or stow the weapon during a single turn.


    __________________
    I think most of this is fairly self-explanatory?

    I'm hoping that the Long-Loading property keeps firearms weak enough not to completely overtake bows and crossbows, while their damage keeps them strong enough to bother with.

    My main concern is the misfire chance. It's intended to make the players reconsider starting every fight by shooting a firearm, but I'm not sure it works for that? Nor do I have a good idea of an alternative.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2019-07-03 at 09:39 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ignimortis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    There is no reason to use firearms as they are written. A longbow becomes automatically better at level 5 when you get Extra Attack and works better in any combat where you have at least two rounds' worth of attacks, because 2d8+DEX*2 is better than anything a firearm could put out in the same amount of time. The only way you can use firearms is having Trained Arquebusier and even then they misfire too much (1/6 chance to not actually hit what I was aiming at? Give me a bow, please), and you have to carry a stack of them to actually shoot every round.
    Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
    Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    There is no reason to use firearms as they are written. A longbow becomes automatically better at level 5 when you get Extra Attack and works better in any combat where you have at least two rounds' worth of attacks, because 2d8+DEX*2 is better than anything a firearm could put out in the same amount of time. The only way you can use firearms is having Trained Arquebusier and even then they misfire too much (1/6 chance to not actually hit what I was aiming at? Give me a bow, please), and you have to carry a stack of them to actually shoot every round.
    I'll just strip out the misfire chance. I suppose trying to stop players from using them at the start of combat is probably too burdensome.

    Should I double the number of loadable shots? That would still work for keeping firearms usable with extra attack. Although these are based on medieval firearms, so I'm not sure why they should be meant to simply replace longbows or shortbows?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ignimortis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'll just strip out the misfire chance. I suppose trying to stop players from using them at the start of combat is probably too burdensome.

    Should I double the number of loadable shots? That would still work for keeping firearms usable with extra attack. Although these are based on medieval firearms, so I'm not sure why they should be meant to simply replace longbows or shortbows?
    Stopping players from using them at the start of the combat would actually remove the only use those guns have as written.

    As far as I'm aware, medieval firearms were mostly used because they're easier to use and require less training than bows. Learning how to shoot a longbow takes a long time, especially since you also need to be strong enough for that. You can't have a conscript trained into a longbowman in a month, but making them a soldier who will shoot his musket once without having to aim too much and then rush into melee? Sure.

    In any case, any player who invests scarce character building resources (such as feats) into firearms will probably want them to be their primary weapon, not something they shoot once and then discard till the combat's done. As such, realistic medieval firearms aren't very conductive to adventuring, and I find that in this case, if you're introducing firearms into D&D, you'd do better to strain verisimilitude and make them same as crossbows with the Loading quality and a feat that removes this. Nerf the damage dice, of course (ranged weapons usually shouldn't be better than 1d12 for two-handed and 1d8 for one-handed), but then a character could get trained in firearm use and actually play around them, being the pioneer of a new age and all that.
    Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
    Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    As such, realistic medieval firearms aren't very conductive to adventuring, and I find that in this case, if you're introducing firearms into D&D, you'd do better to strain verisimilitude and make them same as crossbows with the Loading quality and a feat that removes this. Nerf the damage dice, of course (ranged weapons usually shouldn't be better than 1d12 for two-handed and 1d8 for one-handed), but then a character could get trained in firearm use and actually play around them, being the pioneer of a new age and all that.
    This works for someone who just wants to say they're using a firearm. I fully accept that. I'm fine with it, considering I care particularly little about fluff.

    I was kind of hoping to implement separate weapons to separate them though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    As far as I'm aware, medieval firearms were mostly used because they're easier to use and require less training than bows. Learning how to shoot a longbow takes a long time, especially since you also need to be strong enough for that. You can't have a conscript trained into a longbowman in a month, but making them a soldier who will shoot his musket once without having to aim too much and then rush into melee? Sure.
    That's why crossbows replaced bows anywhere dry enough to use the former. Firearms were implemented later, once crossbows didn't stand up.

    Which, I suppose, explains why medieval firearms are such a pain to try to implement for D&D. The situation that made firearms useful after crossbows were made obsolete just doesn't occur in anything that could be called a "typical" game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    In any case, any player who invests scarce character building resources (such as feats) into firearms will probably want them to be their primary weapon, not something they shoot once and then discard till the combat's done.
    To try to salvage this mess, what about a feat making it easier to operate within a Pike and Shot formation or as a dragoon?

    I'm thinking something letting you fire as a reaction when someone enters your normal range (and increasing range slightly). Then you can retreat on behind pikemen/on a mount in order to reload.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2019-02-16 at 03:32 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ignimortis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    This works for someone who just wants to say they're using a firearm. I fully accept that. I'm fine with it, considering I care particularly little about fluff.

    I was kind of hoping to implement separate weapons to separate them though.
    Oh, I didn't mean that they should be exactly like crossbows. There could be something like this - to reload a firearm, you need to spend an action. Trained Arquebusier reduces that to a bonus action. Maybe there's a subclass for Fighter or Rogue which focuses on firearms and allows you to reduce that bonus action to nothing? Maybe there can be a magical self-loading gun for those lucky few adventurers.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    To try to salvage this mess, what about a feat making it easier to operate within a Pike and Shot formation or as a dragoon?

    I'm thinking something letting you fire as a reaction when someone enters your normal range (and increasing range slightly). Then you can retreat on behind pikemen/on a mount in order to reload.
    That would work, if you were operating as an army, but it doesn't do much for adventurers, who have limited numbers and rely on being outright better than their opponents. However, a feat that allows someone to shoot into close range as a reaction and then move a bit sounds fun...

    Something like this?

    Blackpowder Dancer
    • While you have a firearm readied, you have a reach of 20 feet with it, and other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach. You can only use your firearm to make this attack.
    • After making a firearm opportunity attack, you can move up to half your movement as part of the same reaction.
    Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
    Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    One of the big advantages of early firearms is that they are way easier to use at short range than bows(and really deadly: it is hard to stop a bullet at point blank range so most armors(except modern armors) does not works well even against old guns).
    Carbines(the name) suggests some technological advances that existed at a time where bows and arrows were already obsolete.
    Last edited by noob; 2019-02-17 at 09:43 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Back home
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    Blackpowder Dancer
    • While you have a firearm readied, you have a reach of 20 feet with it, and other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach. You can only use your firearm to make this attack.
    • After making a firearm opportunity attack, you can move up to half your movement as part of the same reaction.
    I would tidy up a few words here and there, but I like the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suggested Wording
    While you have a firearm loaded, you count as having reach of 20 feet with it fr the purposes of opportunity attacks, and other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach. You can only use your firearm to make this special ranged opportunity attack.
    I don't want people getting the idea that they have a range of 20 feet for melee attacks with their gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    See, I remember the days of roleplaying before organisms could even see, let alone use see as a metaphor for comprehension. We could barely comprehend that we could comprehend things. Imagining we were something else was a huge leap forward and really passed the time in between absorbing nutrients.

    Biggest play I ever made: "I want to eat something over there." Anticipated the trope of "being able to move" that you see in all stories these days.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    I would tidy up a few words here and there, but I like the idea.



    I don't want people getting the idea that they have a range of 20 feet for melee attacks with their gun.
    Nor that they can throw a gun with a sling as an opportunity attack to use their strength mod to their damage throw?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Back home
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Nor that they can throw a gun with a sling as an opportunity attack to use their strength mod to their damage throw?
    Haha, good eye! Any suggestions as to how to make that not viable?
    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    See, I remember the days of roleplaying before organisms could even see, let alone use see as a metaphor for comprehension. We could barely comprehend that we could comprehend things. Imagining we were something else was a huge leap forward and really passed the time in between absorbing nutrients.

    Biggest play I ever made: "I want to eat something over there." Anticipated the trope of "being able to move" that you see in all stories these days.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Haha, good eye! Any suggestions as to how to make that not viable?
    It is already not viable: by using guns that way not only you spend tons of money and have to carry a whole lot but you also deal less damage per hit than by shooting with guns(due to how you have at most +5 from str unless you are a barbarian or have a magic item or something like that)

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Exotic Weapons; Including Firearms (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    Oh, I didn't mean that they should be exactly like crossbows. There could be something like this - to reload a firearm, you need to spend an action. Trained Arquebusier reduces that to a bonus action. Maybe there's a subclass for Fighter or Rogue which focuses on firearms and allows you to reduce that bonus action to nothing? Maybe there can be a magical self-loading gun for those lucky few adventurers.
    My initial response is to recoil, given how bad medieval firearms were individually. But sure, I guess?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    That would work, if you were operating as an army, but it doesn't do much for adventurers, who have limited numbers and rely on being outright better than their opponents. However, a feat that allows someone to shoot into close range as a reaction and then move a bit sounds fun...

    Something like this?

    Blackpowder Dancer
    • While you have a firearm readied, you have a reach of 20 feet with it, and other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach. You can only use your firearm to make this attack.
    • After making a firearm opportunity attack, you can move up to half your movement as part of the same reaction.
    Let me fix that: "it doesn't do much for adventurers who charge shouting 'Leeroy Jenkins,' on the assumption they'll win."

    On a serious note, What about the following?
    Dragoon
    • You gain proficiency with the Arquebus, Blunderbus, Carbine, Fire Lance, or Hand Cannon (your choice).
    • You can stow one weapon and draw another as an interaction, as long as one of those weapons is a firearm.
    • As a reaction, you can fire at a creature that moves into the normal range of your firearm. As part of the same reaction you can then mount a creature, dismount, or move up to half your movement speed away from the creature you attacked.


    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    One of the big advantages of early firearms is that they are way easier to use at short range than bows(and really deadly: it is hard to stop a bullet at point blank range so most armors(except modern armors) does not works well even against old guns).
    Carbines(the name) suggests some technological advances that existed at a time where bows and arrows were already obsolete.
    I wanted to represent this with higher damage. You could do something about ignoring AC bonuses from armor, but I wanted something equally effective against the quadratic wizards.

    Also, the "Carbine" was initially labeled a Dragon, but I wanted to avoid confusing people.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2019-02-17 at 10:42 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •