Mutants and Masterminds Stats

[Starsinger]

So.. other than skill modifiers, Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma are useless since they don't enhance anything and have no saving throws associated with them, right?

[Green Bean]

Strength increases damage and lifting capacity.

[Starsinger]

So strength is useful-ish, but Intelligence and Charisma are still useless? Any feats that let you swap int/charisma mods out for some other stat?

[Green Bean]

Strength is more useful than you seem to think; melee builds will often depend on this stat.


Anyways, common consensus on the official boards is that changing the stat a skill check requires is a 1 point feat (equivalent to things like Acrobatic Bluff, and Taunt). Of course, you still have to come up with a reasonable justification. STR to intimidate can be easy to explain, or INT to initiative, but you'll have a harder time applying CON to Disguise.

[Starsinger]

I don't do melee builds, so Strength is really a useless stat to me, personally. But I was sort of hoping all stats would have an inherent use other than "Skill checks".. I wonder if I can persuade my DM to let me use Cha for Toughness checks.

[Green Bean]

That makes very little sense...

[StickMan]

No I went through this whole thing when I first looked at Mutants and Masterminds. Stats are useless, they really are, if you want to deal more damage just take more ranks in strike, if you want to pick things up take super strength, if you want to hit hard and pick stuff up take Strike and super strength. The only stat the ends up being equal to what you can buy for the same points in powers is constitution and only barely. I don't want to run all the math cause I'm lazy but look at it and you'll come to the same conclusion.

I think there is a variant in one of the books that gets rid of Ability scores all together and if I had the money to buy that book I would use that variant.

[Starsinger]

That makes very little sense...

Staying alive through force of will and inner strength? Makes sense to me.

[StickMan]

Staying alive through force of will and inner strength? Makes sense to me.

That would be more Wis, but before I start a fight to each his own.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Intelligence gives you skill points. I've always found them useful, no matter the class. Not to mention it's the casting stat of one of the most powerful classes.

[Starsinger]

That would be more Wis, but before I start a fight to each his own.

Probably, I'm operating under the D&D definition of Charisma... which despite not covering will saves, does mention force of will and inner power and personality and that jazz.

[Green Bean]

Staying alive through force of will and inner strength? Makes sense to me.

Then buy up the Force Field/Protection power with the descriptor of 'inner strength'. Seems simple enough.

And Krimm? This is Mutants and Masterminds. INT doesn't get you more skill points; it's a point-buy system for everything.

[StickMan]

Intelligence gives you skill points. I've always found them useful, no matter the class. Not to mention it's the casting stat of one of the most powerful classes.

Not in mutants and masterminds.

And there are no classes.

[Lord Tataraus]

Charisma is only useful for interaction, but when do superheroes use that? So it usually becomes a dump stat. The rest are useful since intelligence helps a lot of the skills and strength is nice to have when you get hit by a nullifier if you melee. Of course low stats mean you suck against drain.

[StickMan]

Charisma is only useful for interaction, but when do superheroes use that? So it usually becomes a dump stat. The rest are useful since intelligence helps a lot of the skills and strength is nice to have when you get hit by a nullifier if you melee. Of course low stats mean you suck against drain.

Nope your better off just buying the skill points. There are 7 social interaction skills, to increases each of troughs by one point with CHA you have to pay 2 power points total increases in all modifiers=7. If you pay 2 points for skills you get 8 skill ranks so its just a little cheaper to go the skill route. Unless you want to go over your skill limit, then invest in CHA.

[Leon]

Intelligence gives you skill points. I've always found them useful, no matter the class. Not to mention it's the casting stat of one of the most powerful classes.

All skills are bought with you power points at a rate of 4 Skill Ranks per power point

No classes, there are Archtypes that you can use for faster hero buliding but otherwise you can make anthing you want to the limit of your power level

[TheOOB]

Strength does have a definite use in M&M, higher strength lets you lift more and deal more damage, which is great for a hulk smash type of character. Imagine maxing out your strength and super strength power.

Int and Cha seem to mostly be for flavor, they defiantly can be used to push your skills up into the lofty numbers, but power point wise thats very inefficient. A good GM will use straight int and cha checks to help in various circumstances, but otherwise you raise those stats because it makes sense for your hero to be smart/charismatic.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The Mastermind's Manual posits an optional rule: take the highest (or alternatively lowest) of your Int and Dex modifiers for your reflex save, and the same with Wisdom, Charisma, and your Will save.

Just a thought.

[TheOOB]

The Mastermind's Manual posits an optional rule: take the highest (or alternatively lowest) of your Int and Dex modifiers for your reflex save, and the same with Wisdom, Charisma, and your Will save.

Just a thought.

For M&M that makes a lot of sense, I think I'll use it next time I play.

[StickMan]

Strength does have a definite use in M&M, higher strength lets you lift more and deal more damage, which is great for a hulk smash type of character. Imagine maxing out your strength and super strength power.

Buying Super Strength and Strike is cheaper and gets you the same result.

[Green Bean]

Buying Super Strength and Strike is cheaper and gets you the same result.

Well, at PL 10, you're saving a grand total of 2 points. You're also missing out on bonuses to STR skills and jump checks worth more than that.

[StickMan]

Well, at PL 10, you're saving a grand total of 2 points. You're also missing out on bonuses to STR skills and jump checks worth more than that.

What is your goal Strength there.
Lets go with 20 STR normal cost = 10 PP
Super Strength 2 ranks + Strike 5+Leaping 1 (Doubles your jumps)= 10 PP (So yea I guess if you want the skills as well then you might want str)

30 STR normal= 20PP
Super Strength 4 ranks+ Strike 10 ranks+ Leaping 1+ swimming 1= 20 PP ok well that does leave out Climb I would just pay for Wall-Crawling and never make a Climb check again.

If there were more than two str based skill I think you would be right but as is there are powers that can do the job better. And how often do you have to swim or climb something most heroes just fly over.

[Green Bean]

But the point is that it's not that much of a savings. Even if you leave out the skills, you're gaining few points on the side. When it's just one or two points on the line, it's probably better just to stick to buying up strength, concept wise.

[Lord Tataraus]

Having strength rather than strike has its uses. Meet my friend The Void, his powers are extreme toughness and nullify, so when you can't use your strike are you going to wish you had some strength to back it up?

[StickMan]

Having strength rather than strike has its uses. Meet my friend The Void, his powers are extreme toughness and nullify, so when you can't use your strike are you going to wish you had some strength to back it up?

Depends, if the strike is a super power or not. You really should not be able to Nullify a strike power that is based on training. I'm looking at Nullify now and it is kind of poorly worded, not all powers come from a super source. So I think by the RAW of the game it would but I can't think of a good reason for it.

[Green Bean]

Depends, if the strike is a super power or not. You really should not be able to Nullify a strike power that is based on training. I'm looking at Nullify now and it is kind of poorly worded, not all powers come from a super source. So I think by the RAW of the game it would but I can't think of a good reason for it.

Alas, Nullify (All Descriptors) is usually advised against for a reason. Of course, a Mentalist could take it with the descriptor 'wiping the knowledge of how to use your powers from your mind'.