Crusader Kings II Thread V: Umayyad Bro?

[Vinyadan]

Hmm what name should I take as pope. I think... Linus.

That's pretty funny if you translate it in Italian, then you have Papa Lino (papalina is synonimous with zucchetto, the Pope's skullcap).

[PopeLinus1]

That's pretty funny if you translate it in Italian, then you have Papa Lino (papalina is synonimous with zucchetto, the Pope's skullcap).

Pope Linus was actually a real person though. He was the second pope, and one of three mentioned in the new testament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Linus

[IthilanorStPete]

My Alexiad game is going pretty well, taking an interesting direction with my last couple of rulers. I've successfully mended the schism and restored the Roman Empire; I'm doing fine for territory, just frustrated by only being able to take a single duchy at a time. (And only fighting one war at once...stupid pragmatists on the council) I had a Satanist ruler, thought that was going to make for some interesting play; he didn't do much during his lifetime, though, and his hand-groomed Satanist heir died two months after succession.

What's currently keeping things interesting is diving into the classics as a Hermetic ruler and starting up Hellenism in secret. I had decent luck spreading it as that ruler, but the second Hellenistic ruler got branded as an apostate before I took control of him, so he wasn't able to do much. I'm currently on the third secretly Hellenistic ruler, working my way up the ranks so I can hopefully start converting my vassals in secret again.

[snowblizz]

Because it is actually easier to ask here than look in-game.

I recently got inspired to try and play Burgundy, I guess circa HYW.

Could ya'll recommend a starting point, and can one create a Kingdom of Burgundy. Or does that require some special DLC (I have some, not all).

[Caelestion]

You guess? Why not just tell us the date? (FYI, the Hundred Years War was 1337-1453.)

[snowblizz]

Because I don't remember the starting points off hand. The French-English war I remembered starting at was I realised 1066, but there is a later starting point somewhere, 1200s? 1400s? I don't know. And I don't know if Burgundy is doable at a later point (or earlier). Some passing comment suggested you need a DLC if you want to more freely create kingdoms. And stumbled on some youtube vids about the most impossible things to try (that I am not wanting to inadvertedly recreate).


So, what would be a good point to start playing as Burgundy and make a shot of it on normal (not ironman mode).


(if it wasn't obvious I only dabble at this game from time to time)

[Rockphed]

Because I don't remember the starting points off hand. The French-English war I remembered starting at was I realised 1066, but there is a later starting point somewhere, 1200s? 1400s? I don't know. And I don't know if Burgundy is doable at a later point (or earlier). Some passing comment suggested you need a DLC if you want to more freely create kingdoms. And stumbled on some youtube vids about the most impossible things to try (that I am not wanting to inadvertedly recreate).


So, what would be a good point to start playing as Burgundy and make a shot of it on normal (not ironman mode).


(if it wasn't obvious I only dabble at this game from time to time)

You need the Charlemagne DLC to create custom kingdoms, but I think Burgundy is available (and nicely burgundy) after 1066. If you want to start about 1200, that is also very doable.

[PopeLinus1]

(and nicely burgundy)

Burgundy being burgundy is better than sex.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, Hellenism is now the official state religion of the Roman Empire for the first time in a millennium. It went surprisingly smoothly; barely had any upset vassals, they've mostly converted without a hiccup.

[Wardog]

Earliest AI Germanic reformation I've ever seen:

Spoiler

Show

(I'm guessing my custom Germanic king of Wessex conquoring half of Britain may have helped by getting the moral authority up).

[The Glyphstone]

King Garnall 'The Traitor' needs to hire a better PR management team, that's for certain.

[Keltest]

King Garnall 'The Traitor' needs to hire a better PR management team, that's for certain.

Heh. I had that title in a multiplayer game once as Holy Roman Emperor. My fellow players were my vassals, and were legitimately surprised whenever I moved against them.

[Thufir]

(And only fighting one war at once...stupid pragmatists on the council)

This is why you abolish council power.
Well, this and many other reasons.

Earliest AI Germanic reformation I've ever seen:

Pretty sure I've seen earlier, when the Germanic de Friesland dynasty took over basically all of Charlemagne's empire (and doomed me to a hell of neverending raiding adventurers). Completely without player intervention as well, I was still just a patrician down in Amalfi.

[PopeLinus1]

Well, Hellenism is now the official state religion of the Roman Empire for the first time in a millennium. It went surprisingly smoothly; barely had any upset vassals, they've mostly converted without a hiccup.

Honestly, recreating a Hellenic Rome is irl lifegoals.

[Driderman]

Earliest AI Germanic reformation I've ever seen

Managed to do one in 791 once, due to a lucky string of inheritances that left me with a Mastermind Theologian ruler and 3 Holy Sites under direct control

[Rockphed]

Managed to do one in 791 once, due to a lucky string of inheritances that left me with a Mastermind Theologian ruler and 3 Holy Sites under direct control

That was a player reformation. This was an AI led reformation 9 years after game start, which is incredibly impressive since the AI does not plan very well.

[SZbNAhL]

This is why you abolish council power.
Well, this and many other reasons.

More like why you make sure the council's stuffed with loyalists.

[Keltest]

More like why you make sure the council's stuffed with loyalists.

Doing that tends to just tick off your powerful vassals. Having them hate you is annoying enough that its frequently easier to just put up with them not wanting to do everything you want to for a while, especially because, if youre going to war, it actually eats into your troop count to have them like you less.

[PopeLinus1]

More like why you make sure the council's stuffed with loyalists.

More like why you give all of your vassals vice-royalties, so they always love you.

[Thufir]

More like why you make sure the council's stuffed with loyalists.

In my experience loyalists are temporary; abolished council power is forever.

[PopeLinus1]

One never knows where loyalty is born.

Okay fine, it was said by Burt Cooper.

[Leecros]

In my experience loyalists are temporary; abolished council power is forever.

Council power is forever.


Throwing your fat stacks of cash at Nobles who can't rebel because you have council power is Eternal.



Seriously, the council is not that difficult to manipulate after you become even reasonably powerful. Fire councillors to put temorary loyalists to get votes, bribes for favors, abolishing council power, booting a council member that has called in favors for the whole council so that they vote against you and replacing him with literally anyone. As much flak as CKII took for adding the council system, sometimes I feel like it didn't go far enough to empower the council.

[Thufir]

Seriously, the council is not that difficult to manipulate after you become even reasonably powerful. Fire councillors to put temorary loyalists to get votes, bribes for favors, abolishing council power, booting a council member that has called in favors for the whole council so that they vote against you and replacing him with literally anyone.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure you can keep the council in line even if it's empowered by doing all this busywork, but why would you do that when alternatively you could just... not.

[IthilanorStPete]

Council power is forever.


Throwing your fat stacks of cash at Nobles who can't rebel because you have council power is Eternal.

Amen to that. "You want 600 gold for a favor? Sure, I've got 7 coastal counties in my demesne, that's a couple months income for me. Am I not the model of a gracious overlord?"
...Playing as the emperor of the ERE might've distorted my perspective a bit.

[PopeLinus1]

ERE

Ah, a man of culture.

[Leecros]

I mean, yeah, I'm sure you can keep the council in line even if it's empowered by doing all this busywork, but why would you do that when alternatively you could just... not.

because as much busywork as it may be, I find it more preferrable than having to put down rebellious Powerful Vassals every decade or so who always revolt at the most inopportune times and are often less easily compelled than an empowered council.

It's largely a matter of preference. There's pro's and con's to both ways of dealing with it.

[Rockphed]

Ah, a man of culture.

Playing in the ERE is my jam. One of the featured ruler challenges was a viceroy in anatolia. I had lots of fun playing as him. The Catholics did a crusade for Anatolia. After I got the empire (which was mostly unexpected) I landed a claimant and reintegrated anatolia into the empire.

I think every campaign I have played to the end date has involved having the ERE as one of my titles at some point. I did a 7 century game starting as venice where I eventually took over the empire and I have also done an Alexiad start as Alexios that I played to the end. At this point I wish the game had more things to do as a Patrician. Hopefully they will figure out how to put merchant republics in CKIII, but they have said they aren't in for the initial release.

[Thufir]

Because as much busywork as it may be, I find it more preferrable than having to put down rebellious Powerful Vassals every decade or so who always revolt at the most inopportune times and are often less easily compelled than an empowered council.

This is also a problem which does not happen in my experience. Maybe once in a campaign I'll have a serious problem with rebellious powerful vassals.

[snowblizz]

This is also a problem which does not happen in my experience. Maybe once in a campaign I'll have a serious problem with rebellious powerful vassals.

Can I get your vassals?

Inopprtunate rebellions form powerful vassals is in my experience the defining gamepaly, it's like there's an internal screw you switch. Even when it would make sense to keep together there is some **** for brains duke who has to ruin things by promoting himself or some useless relative of mine.

[PopeLinus1]

Can I get your vassals?

Inopprtunate rebellions form powerful vassals is in my experience the defining gamepaly, it's like there's an internal screw you switch. Even when it would make sense to keep together there is some **** for brains duke who has to ruin things by promoting himself or some useless relative of mine.

*weeps in Eastern Roman Empire*