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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Welcome to the chat thread for the Base Class Competitions for D&D 5e. If you wish to say anything about the competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread, but it is preferred if you do so through that class’ specific thread (if applicable). I will also be holding discussions over what the next competition’s theme should be in here. Let us begin.

    Submissions thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Monster-Mash
    Voting thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...7#post23869557

    Former Competitions

    1st contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery?, won by WarrentheHero with the Inventor

    2nd contest: Expect a low Margin of Terror, Won by Mourne with the Sleepwalker

    3rd Contest: The Elements, and not the Periodic Ones (Probably?), won By Pygmybatrider with The Shaman

    4th contest: Does Not Meet Expectations, won with a tie by Molemage with the Destined and Pygmybatrider's Mesmer

    5th contest: Time to Chill out, won by Molemage with the Wintreborn
    Last edited by Requilac; 2019-04-26 at 12:53 AM.
    5e Monster Features Index

    My D&D 5e homebrew

    The Necronomicon: >30 Page Lovecraftian Supplement

    The Investigator Base Class Won 3rd place in the 1st GitP 5e base class contest

    Yubsharasehn Vampyres Won 1st place in the GitP Monster Design Contest: Shapeshifters

    Check here for my extended homebrew signature!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    I thought the theme was going to be Monsters this time? I personally have no investment in it. You know how I voted. However there were others who were looking forward to the monster theme.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    I thought the theme was going to be Monsters this time? I personally have no investment in it. You know how I voted. However there were others who were looking forward to the monster theme.
    , I think you are actually right. The theme should have been monsters as PC classes and not time. I must have forgotten and put in the wrong concept. I will change that immediately and make it clear what this competition is.
    5e Monster Features Index

    My D&D 5e homebrew

    The Necronomicon: >30 Page Lovecraftian Supplement

    The Investigator Base Class Won 3rd place in the 1st GitP 5e base class contest

    Yubsharasehn Vampyres Won 1st place in the GitP Monster Design Contest: Shapeshifters

    Check here for my extended homebrew signature!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    , I think you are actually right. The theme should have been monsters as PC classes and not time. I must have forgotten and put in the wrong concept. I will change that immediately and make it clear what this competition is.
    Well I'll just put my time class idea in a dusty old corner of my mind for next time's contest then. Golem is formatted on GMBinder, though only about half of the features are in place and none of them have been numbers-checked.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Finished the first draft of my Lycanthrope class - feedback would be appreciated.

    After this contest is over I might trim it down to 10 levels and post it as a prestige class, like the Vampire prestige class I did a little while back.
    Last edited by theVoidWatches; 2019-02-19 at 11:35 AM.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Ah yes, the three most feared lycanthropic forms: the beat, the rat, and the wolf. Small typo there.
    But otherwise it's looking pretty good from what I've read so far.

    I was thinking of jumping in with a revenant class, the race always seemed both a tad underwhelming and a bit overpowered at the same time. And I can take it in several different thematic directions with subclasses.
    "Now get on your flying boat and stop a crazy dwarf vampire from committing election fraud!"

    www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Ah, whoops - type fixed.

    A revenant class would be cool. Honestly I've always felt that the various things which start as normal people and are converted (vampires, lycanthropes, revenants, liches, etc) are better represented as classes anyway (although my personal preference is to coach them as prestige classes rather than base classes).
    Last edited by theVoidWatches; 2019-02-19 at 11:37 AM.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    True.

    The main problem I have with the revenant in its current form is that it's too abusable. I mean, sure, you die when you get your revenge, but set that up right and it's an end of campaign goal while you have a bunch of free resurrections in the meantime.
    In some cases, though, that can be alright as long as you get a good roleplayer behind the wheel and not a powergamer/leroy jenkins mcsmashalot, but it's very player dependent.
    I love the way Liam handled it near the end of the first campaign, and it was a lot of fun to watch, but I wouldn't give such a powerful racial ability to a first level character. No way, no how.
    And on top of that it rewrites all other racial traits making it less X-revenant and more just "X"-revenant.
    "Now get on your flying boat and stop a crazy dwarf vampire from committing election fraud!"

    www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Alright, I've finished the golem's first draft. Fluff is still not written for most of it (I wrote the individual Temper fluffs) and I still need to do the Quick Build and Starting Gear sections, but I'm ready to start swapping feedback. I should get some notes up on Lycanthrope by sometime tomorrow, and if any other classes have their stuff up by that point I'll get notes on those too.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Feedback for Lycanthrope:

    Spoiler: Longer Version
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    • I like the mechanics of moon dice, but with them locked into being d6s some of the features that add them numerically to a result (especially in Bear and Wolf where you can modify damage rolls with them) will scale poorly into the higher levels. You could call this a feature as the class gives plenty of other boosts throughout, though.
    • Curse of the Moon covers forced transformation quite well.
    • For Animal Instinct I would suggest picking advantage or add dice and leave the other one off. The reason is that in the vast majority of cases, advantage is going to be better (some quick searching indicates that analysts value advantage at somewhere between +4 and +5, whereas the die only gives an expected +3.5). There are exceptions, but they are rare and including both means that one inevitably is a trap to players who don't read balance discussion.
    • I feel like Tracker could be an entirely passive feature without a Moon Dice cost. Moon Dice are pretty hotly contested once the subclasses are taken into account, and passive bonuses to tracking are well within the expected balance of a 7th level ability.
    • Improved Tracker gives an additional +4, which is usually written roughly in the format of "your bonus to passive perception granted by Tracker improves to +8" in 5e classes.
    • Love of the Moon is unfinished. By context, I'm guessing that it is like the Warlock capstone for Moon Dice. It also has a stray spoiler tag next to it.



    • Lunar Transformation for all subclasses functions works as a feature. The variable round duration is unique but not unreasonable.
    • I feel like the Fueled by Moonlight features would be better spread out. This is true of all three subclasses. That said, if compared to monk this isn't an unreasonable number of features.



    • Bear: Fueled by Moonlight option 2 is extremely powerful. Compare the Protection Fighting Style. I would either make this 'protection fighting style but bear-shaped' or preferably, leave it as is but allow a saving throw to attack the original target.
    • Bear: Improved Parry. As written, the Bear can use their Parry once against everything that attacks them (once on each creature's turn). Is this as intended, or did you mean it to be "once per round but doesn't require the Reaction"?



    • Rat: Lunar Transformation. Your bite counts as a Light weapon, meaning you can use it in two-weapon fighting to attack with a weapon held in your other....head?
    • Rat: Fueled by Moonlight option 3 confused me when I first read it. At first glance it seems to require that the character possess a disease in order to grant the benefit.
    • Rat: Friend of the Moon is the weakest version of this feature of the three subclasses. Both Bear and Wolf allow you to reroll multiple dice simultaneously. That said, Rat gets the only passive damage increase of the three with Poison Tongue at 11, so it probably balances out.



    • Wolf: Fueled by Moonlight. I find it odd that rats get the trip option when DnD wolves are known to have that ability. Then I looked up the lycanthrope stats and apparently they are different from their base animal in a number of ways such as werewolves not getting trip and werebears having a more powerful bite than claws, the reverse of what black bears have.
    • Wolf: Fueled by Moonlight 3 is very strong, especially compared to Fueled by Moonlight 1.
    • Wolf: Extra Attack 2. I like that only one subclass gives a third attack, as it is a unique way of modifying the Extra Attack stuff.



    If I didn't comment on a specific feature here, I felt like it was both fitting and straightforward enough to not warrant breaking it down or commenting on a cool if unusual factor of it. Hope this helps!
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    • I like the mechanics of moon dice, but with them locked into being d6s some of the features that add them numerically to a result (especially in Bear and Wolf where you can modify damage rolls with them) will scale poorly into the higher levels. You could call this a feature as the class gives plenty of other boosts throughout, though.


    Yeah, I thought I was giving enough that having the Moon Dice not scale was for the best.



    • For Animal Instinct I would suggest picking advantage or add dice and leave the other one off. The reason is that in the vast majority of cases, advantage is going to be better (some quick searching indicates that analysts value advantage at somewhere between +4 and +5, whereas the die only gives an expected +3.5). There are exceptions, but they are rare and including both means that one inevitably is a trap to players who don't read balance discussion.


    Good point. I'll drop the option to add the die.



    • I feel like Tracker could be an entirely passive feature without a Moon Dice cost. Moon Dice are pretty hotly contested once the subclasses are taken into account, and passive bonuses to tracking are well within the expected balance of a 7th level ability.


    Also a good point. I've swapped it to a passive "add your Con bonus".



    • Improved Tracker gives an additional +4, which is usually written roughly in the format of "your bonus to passive perception granted by Tracker improves to +8" in 5e classes.


    Fixed.



    • Love of the Moon is unfinished. By context, I'm guessing that it is like the Warlock capstone for Moon Dice. It also has a stray spoiler tag next to it.


    Fixed.


    • Bear: Fueled by Moonlight option 2 is extremely powerful. Compare the Protection Fighting Style. I would either make this 'protection fighting style but bear-shaped' or preferably, leave it as is but allow a saving throw to attack the original target.


    Fair point. I'll have it be a saving throw of sorts - the attacker's roll is compared to your Lunar Save DC. If they pass they hit their original target, if they fail they hit you. This means that not only must the option be used before the attack roll is made, but it means the attacker WILL hit.



    • Bear: Improved Parry. As written, the Bear can use their Parry once against everything that attacks them (once on each creature's turn). Is this as intended, or did you mean it to be "once per round but doesn't require the Reaction"?


    It's intended to become a bonus against the first attack made against you every turn, basically, since it's once per turn but only against the attack that triggers it. Multiattackers get through the parry. If that's too strong then downgrading it to "once per round but doesn't require the reaction" is also an option, though.


    • Rat: Lunar Transformation. Your bite counts as a Light weapon, meaning you can use it in two-weapon fighting to attack with a weapon held in your other....head?


    I was originally going to give rats both bite and claw attacks, and make them both Light so you could two-weapon fight, but then remembered that rats don't really have claws. So that's an artifact of that, I guess. I think I'll leave it in, though, letting you two-weapon fight with your bite and another light weapon.



    • Rat: Fueled by Moonlight option 3 confused me when I first read it. At first glance it seems to require that the character possess a disease in order to grant the benefit.


    Edited to hopefully be more clear.



    • Rat: Friend of the Moon is the weakest version of this feature of the three subclasses. Both Bear and Wolf allow you to reroll multiple dice simultaneously. That said, Rat gets the only passive damage increase of the three with Poison Tongue at 11, so it probably balances out.


    I'm not sure if it is the weakest - you only reroll one die, sure, but Bear is only reducing damage (which, like healing, theory-crafters say is weaker than dealing damage). Wolf adds damage, but the best result of the reroll transforms 1+1 into 6+6 for an extra 10 damage - Rat's best result will turn a missed attack into a hit, for potentially much more damage (say they're swinging around a greatsword - that could be an extra 3d6+5 damage, with Poison Tongue and 20 Strength, averaging 16.5). I think it's on par.


    • Wolf: Fueled by Moonlight. I find it odd that rats get the trip option when DnD wolves are known to have that ability. Then I looked up the lycanthrope stats and apparently they are different from their base animal in a number of ways such as werewolves not getting trip and werebears having a more powerful bite than claws, the reverse of what black bears have.


    It was more the vibe I was trying to give each subclass, TBH. Wolves are the most martial, damage-dealing subclass, Bears are the most defensive, tanky subclass, and Rat is the sneaky, dirty-fighting subclass. Trip felt more in line with Rat than Wolf to me, even though normal wolves get to knock people down.
    That said, you do get that feature in your animal form, so that's your option to knock people down as a wolf.



    • Wolf: Fueled by Moonlight 3 is very strong, especially compared to Fueled by Moonlight 1.


    I'll restrict it to only one Moon Die - you're right that without giving any save, it's pretty strong.
    Also, I'm realizing I should probably give names to the individual options, like monk feature's get.



    • Wolf: Extra Attack 2. I like that only one subclass gives a third attack, as it is a unique way of modifying the Extra Attack stuff.


    Thank.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Working on an entry still. It will be stretching the monster theme to its breaking point but I've wanted to do this particular one for some time. Its ambitious with 7, possibly 8, subclasses and spellcasting. I hope I finish it in time. My biggest problem is limiting its power to a reasonable for player character level and it kind of breaks some of 5e's rules for player characters in a limited fashion.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Alright, I just got the revenant base class up, sans tools, skills, and starting equipment (any suggestions on those would be really helpful, I never know what or how many of each to give there). I'll be pretty swamped the rest of the week, at least until Wednesday, so until then I won't be able to do much tweaking or write out the subclasses. Any tips or feedback are appreciated greatly, I'm kinda wondering whether I've either made it overpowered, too complex, or too specialized at not dying (should I downgrade it to a d6 hit die?). The subclasses will probably help give it a better range of abilities, especially since they have so many path features to work with.

    I'm really excited to see what everyone else has in store for this contest. Good luck everybody.
    "Now get on your flying boat and stop a crazy dwarf vampire from committing election fraud!"

    www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    I guess I should format the Golem for a post table in addition to the GMBinder/PDF version. Tomorrow I will do that so everyone can easily see it lined up with the other classes.

    EDIT: Class is formatted right into the post now. No changes to features from the previous version.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2019-02-26 at 05:35 PM.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Just got the relentless hunter subclass up for the revenant. I'm actually pretty pleased with that one, so we'll see how the rest turn out later.
    "Now get on your flying boat and stop a crazy dwarf vampire from committing election fraud!"

    www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Some feedback on what is up so far on the partial classes.


    Lich
    Spoiler
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    • I like the "all necromancy and some of a second school of your choice" spells known mechanic. Actually, the sorcerer might feel better to play if it used a similar mechanic.
    • Three saving throw proficiencies, two of which are good right out the gate? I would put one of theme as a feature later on (similar to Rogue's Slippery Mind feature).
    • d10 hit dice and Constitution-based casting on a 9 level caster is a bit much. This guy is going to be competing with Barbarians for most hit points. I'd drop the hit dice to a d8.
    • Looking forward to individual features and seeing how you design subclasses!


    Devoured
    I'm excited for this class, but right now weird magic is the only feature that's up and that's not enough for me to go on.

    Revenant
    Spoiler
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    • The base class seems like it's waiting for more features at the moment.
    • You gave it two "primary" saves (Con and Wis). 5e classes typically have one "primary" (Dex/Con/Wis) and one "secondary" (Str/Int/Cha) saving throw.
    • It's weird to me that you make a choice at 1st level that gives no effect until 3rd level. I would just move the choice for Bound Soul to 3rd level when it starts having an effect.
    • Risen from the Grave is great thematically, but the "quest complete" conditions are a little severe if this is going to be used by a player. If it's intended to be used to model a revenant for an NPC it's fine.
    • Returned from Death becomes too difficult in higher levels. By level 10, the DC is starting out at 30, with a possible -24 for waiting a full minute and having two successful death saves. If my Con save is +5 or higher, I can auto-succeed with anything but a nat 1. By level 15, it's 40, but still only -24 for conditionals (and I have gained at most an additional +2 to my saves from increased Proficiency and one ASI in Con) I now need to roll a 9 or better to succeed. At level 20, it's a DC 50 with the same possible bonuses, meaning that with max Con for +11 to my save, and -24 to the DC for best case scenario, I now need a 15 or better to succeed.
    • The above entry is rendered moot with Improved Return from Death coming just three levels after the initial feature and being better in almost every way (no time limit, easier DC, the possibility to render it guaranteed by taking 4 levels of exhaustion). It doesn't specify how you can recover from exhaustion if you're dead though. Also, neither Returned nor its Improved version specify how frequently you can make the attempt. Once ever? Once during the time period for Returned, and a separate once ever for Improved?
    • Undying Vengeance is nice, but I think I would just always forgo the exhaustion. I'm coming back naked with 1 HP anyway, so I need to rest and rearm. I might do one level of exhaustion since that long rest I require will clear it anyway.



    Relentless Hunter Archetype
    • Resilient Form: This is probably overkill. Monks also have a d8 hit dice and fight in melee, and you have an AC bonus on the chassis as well in Hunter's Skill. I don't think it's breaking the balance though.
    • Hunter's Skill: Stealth and Poisoner's Kit are not equally valued.
    • Curse of Vengeance: 9 levels in and this is the first feature keyed off of Wisdom. I'd either put a Wisdom requirement earlier in the subclass or change this to another ability score (though Wis makes the most sense).
    • Renewed Curse: Can I toggle off of my target, then a round later toggle back onto them and use the curse again? For that matter, how does Curse of Lethargy or Curse of Carelessness interact with changing targets? Does the original target retain its curse for as long as Hunter's Mark exists or just while they are affected by it?
    • Vengeful Strike: Does the creature still receive their saving throw to avoid the curse or is it a guaranteed effect? If the former, I'd remove the restriction on creatures you have already cursed (the rest limitations should suffice). If the latter I think it's fine as is.


    Elemental Scion
    Spoiler
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    • It would help with readability if you added the level gained to each ability description, so we don't have to scroll back up to the chart for each ability.
    • Unarmed Attack should have an ability entry explaining any restrictions or special characteristics (if there aren't any, just saying "your unarmed strikes do damage as indicated in the table"). I'm okay with it outscaling Monk only because there's no flurry of blows option.
    • The description of Improved Elemental Body doesn't match its effect (I'm emotionally deadened, which means I can't be paralyzed or turned into stone by magic). That number of immunities might also be a bit much for level 7 (though condition immunities are pretty niche).
    • Elemental Servants: When I get this feature, I'm getting 4 or 6 mephits right away. This is not a problem balance-wise (as mephits are fairly weak), but it is a headache to keep track of. Also, it doesn't specify how you give commands to the mephits. Do they have their own initiative or share mine? Do I use an action, bonus action, or no action to command them? Does every mephit take the same general action or does each act independently? Check out Beastmaster Ranger and the Find Familiar or Conjure X line of spells for examples of specifics.
    • Apotheosis is too strong while it's up and offers no benefit while it's down. Assuming the intended ~2 fights between short rests, in roughly half of fights I'm carrying the day with my free HP, double damage, free Reaction attack, and reach, and in the other half of fights I'm plinking away with my 1d8+Str.
    • Elemental Connection is a good feature and the additional restrictions makes it acceptable that it's a short rest instead of long.
    • True Apotheosis should have indicators for what page of the Monster Manual (or other source) you can find that monster in.
    • Air: Improved Flowing Assault is coming close to stepping on the toes of the monk, especially with the bigger unarmed strike dice as they continue to level up.
    • Earth: Relentless Assault: Do you mean damage dice? If so, this has a strange progression, as it becomes less likely to trigger as you level until you hit 17 where it has a huge spike in likelihood when you move from 1d10 (~20% chance) to 2d6 (5 out of 9 times or roughly ~55% chance). If not, it only really matters on a crit or if you get a nat 1 on half of an advantage roll. Obviously after level 6 this only decides whether they are disadvantaged on their save, but it's still worth noting the odd scale jump.
    • Earth: Shattering Movement: Is there a minimum amount of movement? Does it work if I just step away and then back to where I started? I'd also separate out the concentration loss as requiring a concentration save against the same DC as the knockdown effect.
    • Fire: Improved Fiery Assault: A better example of using the damage dice to decide on additional effects, as the 1d6 is consistent throughout. Loss of reactions is weak enough to be found on cantrips, so a 1 in 3 chance of triggering on an attack roll is fine by me.
    • Fire: Flame Wings: Since your true form is a phoenix, this checks out. But if you finish Air and don't put flight in there also we're gonna have words. Polite words.
    • Water: Sweeping Attack: This occupies a very similar strategic role to Earth's Relentless Assault. Relentless Assault is better against enemies too large to shove and high-dex low-str enemies while Sweeping Attack is better against enemies with saving throw bonuses or legendary resistance, but otherwise they form the same general purpose.

    Last edited by MoleMage; 2019-03-08 at 05:11 PM.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Feedback time!

    Spoiler: MoleMage's Golem
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    Base Class

    • Unarmored Defense: I like the way you have this working. It seems somewhat odd at first thought to have it be base+Con instead of base+Dex, but it makes sense for a golem that will primarily be toughing out attacks, not dodging them.
    • The 18th level Slam improvement seems like a huge jump. In one level, you'll go from dealing 5d10+5 (min 17, max 55, avg 32) damage, which compares reasonably to other martial classes, to 5d10+20 (min 45, max 70, avg 47.5), which compares closer to notably over-powered GWF builds. I would suggest cutting the part about adding your strength score instead of your strength modifier and leave it as just being able to replace all low-rolling dice with your strength modifier - that will still be a solid damage increase by increasing the minimum damage, without boosting the maximum to such a degree.
    • I'm not sure why you still need to eat, breath, etc for so long. Seems to me that this could come all together with the Artificial feature rather than waiting until level 15.

    Temper of Clay

    • Face of Clay is an interesting bit of flavor, but seems essentially useless. Yes, you can hide your specific identity, but unless clay golems are common, people will still know that it was the only person made of clay in the area. At the very least, an upgrade later on to allow to to occasionally hide your clay nature (maybe to let you cast Disguise Self once per long rest?) wouldn't be unreasonable
    • Haste feels powerful, with the ability to get it back after using Berserk. It compares to Action Surge IMO (letting you double your damage for one round - you don't get to use the action for anything else like Action Surge allows, but you do get a bonus to AC and Dex saves), but Berserk lets you get it back almost any time you want. If you're in melee combat alone (not too unlikely), then you've got no reason not to use Berserk and Haste every turn, assuming that your enemy hits you.
    • On reading Divine Berserk, I realize that you can't use Berserk any time you take damage, only when it reduces you to half health or less, which makes Haste much more reasonable - up until level 20, when it becomes even more unreasonable as Berserk no longer has a change of forcing you to attack allies. It's a capstone, though, so is probably fine.

    Temper of Iron

    • Question about Steel Edge: does it still count as using a slam attack for the purpose of "only once per turn"? You're not technically making a slam attack, just using its damage, so if you multiclassed into this class from one with Extra Attack, you could be doubling your slam damage every turn.

    Temper of Flesh

    • Not sure why Supercharged restores after a long rest when most of the rest-limited stuff so far has been short or long rest. Is this a short-rest or long-rest class? Either way, I suggest standardizing its restoration times.



    Spoiler: Carl's Lich
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    Base Class
    • I agree with MoleMage that a d10 hit die and three saving throw proficiencies is way too much for a non-martial, full caster, regardless of how limited your spell list is.
    • Class features should be on the class table.
    • Generally seems very limited. Knowing all necromancy spells is cool and all, but learning 1 other spell every 4ish levels is incredibly slow. Also, you don't currently have any subclass features, or class features other than spellcasting at all. I'd suggest making the abjuration/enchantment/evocation stuff into actual subclasses focused on those types of magic (maybe take inspiration from wizard schools), and adding in at least one or two necromancy focused features for the base class.
    • I'll also note that the class is missing paralyzing touch (a lich classic) and the entire phylactery concept. It's less a lich and more of a necromancy savant, right now. Building a "savant" class that's heavily focused on one spell school would be interesting, but it's not a lich.



    Spoiler: ThisDude's Devoured
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    Base Class
    • Similar to the Lich, it feels strange to have a full caster with so few spells known. I can't give much more feedback until the class is more complete, though.



    Spoiler: SleeplessWriter's Revenant
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    • Can I ask why you only get stabilized by healing spells instead of actually healing? Seems like a major nerf and I can't think why.
    • Feels odd to pick your bound soul at level 1 when it doesn't give you anything until level 3.
    • Can Vengeance Seeker also give the presence of objects important to your vengeance? Like, sensing a lich's phylactery? Or only the person that you want vengeance on?
    • Returned from Death currently gets harder as you gain levels in this class, which feels backwards. When if the DC instead started at 30 and was reduced by your Revenant level?
    • Improved Return from Death similarly gets harder as you gain levels and feels very strange for that reason.



    Spoiler: Daemonaetea's Elemental
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    Base Class
    • Class features gained after 1st level typically include the level that they become active as part of the description. Your descriptions are very evocative (and kind of depressing), but it's hard to tell when you get a feature as I read through them - I keep having to refer back to the table.
    • Elemental Servants is cool but things that scale off of proficiency bonus generally feel a little odd when they're linked to a specific class. If you get this and then start multiclassing into Fighter, say, they you'll still be able to summon more mephits. Also, the implication that you can summon mephits that aren't aligned to your element is weird. Why would a water elemental be able to summon magma mephits, for example?
      Generally speaking I love the concept, but I think you need to include details on exactly what the mephits will and won't do for you. Will they join you in battle, for example?
    • True Apotheosis is cool as ****. I suggest including the relevant book and page number for each form, though.
    • Whichever feature gives you your unarmed strike appears to be missing. Extra Attack is also missing from outside of the class table, as is the Ability Score Improvement feature.
    • Seriously, good job on the flavor text.

    Air Bloodline
    • This goes for all bloodlines: "their damage type is thunder". I assume that this is for the unarmed attacks?
    • Flowing Assault is real nice. Improved Flowing Assault obsoletes it a little quickly, though (especially coming just one level after you already get a consistent 2 attacks every round). Maybe push it back to 9th level?
    • For a higher level feature, I suggest a fly speed. Maybe it could come with a limitation (once or twice per rest, say) at level 6 and lose that limit at level 17?

    Earth Bloodline
    • Slumbering Soul (presumably) makes your unarmed attacks be bludgeoning damage, but it doesn't look like your damage ever ends up counting as magical for damage resistances. I suggest adding that in somewhere.
    • Like with Flowing Assault, Improved Relentless Assault comes a little quickly IMO.

    Fire Bloodline
    • Again, I think Improved Fiery Assault should be delayed a few levels.
    • Flame Wings felt a little weird at first (after all, fire elementals don't have a fly speed) until I remembered that your true form with this subclass is a Phoenix.

    Water Bloodline
    • I suggest a ribbon ability for this subclass granting a swim speed and the ability to breath underwater.


    I generally really like this class - the flavor is incredible. The main thing it needs, I think, is reformatting to make things more clear.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Feedback time!
    Unarmored Defense: I like the way you have this working. It seems somewhat odd at first thought to have it be base+Con instead of base+Dex, but it makes sense for a golem that will primarily be toughing out attacks, not dodging them.
    I wanted a way to simulate the Heavy Armor style with an Unarmored Defense feature. It seems like that's the impression that's coming across so I'll call it a success.
    The 18th level Slam improvement seems like a huge jump. In one level, you'll go from dealing 5d10+5 (min 17, max 55, avg 32) damage, which compares reasonably to other martial classes, to 5d10+20 (min 45, max 70, avg 47.5), which compares closer to notably over-powered GWF builds. I would suggest cutting the part about adding your strength score instead of your strength modifier and leave it as just being able to replace all low-rolling dice with your strength modifier - that will still be a solid damage increase by increasing the minimum damage, without boosting the maximum to such a degree.
    I hadn't run the numbers on it yet and was worried about the Golem's inability to combine their Slam with feats and lack of Extra Attack, but it looks like I overcompensated. I'll limit it to the dice-replacing. I guess turning minimum 18 into minimum 30 is still a pretty huge spike, even if the maximum remains unchanged.

    I'm not sure why you still need to eat, breath, etc for so long. Seems to me that this could come all together with the Artificial feature rather than waiting until level 15.
    I guess I'll have to come up with some other feature for level 15. I might leave the agelessness function here (and give it its own name), described as your body undergoing whatever decay is appropriate to your Temper instead until your spirit supersedes the decay.

    EDIT: I left it in Artificial for now. Couldn't think of a good name that wasn't already in use.

    Face of Clay is an interesting bit of flavor, but seems essentially useless. Yes, you can hide your specific identity, but unless clay golems are common, people will still know that it was the only person made of clay in the area. At the very least, an upgrade later on to allow to to occasionally hide your clay nature (maybe to let you cast Disguise Self once per long rest?) wouldn't be unreasonable
    Originally it was just *disguise self* at will, I might boost it back to that (though the Flesh Temper's level 10 feature would feel pretty sad by comparison).

    EDIT: It now also hides your golem nature, but using the same fail condition as Disguise Self (Investigation check vs. DC). Fleshy Guise is distinct in that it has no fail condition (you just appear to be whatever race applies).

    Haste feels powerful, with the ability to get it back after using Berserk. It compares to Action Surge IMO (letting you double your damage for one round - you don't get to use the action for anything else like Action Surge allows, but you do get a bonus to AC and Dex saves), but Berserk lets you get it back almost any time you want. If you're in melee combat alone (not too unlikely), then you've got no reason not to use Berserk and Haste every turn, assuming that your enemy hits you.
    If I restrict this to a normal weapon attack instead of a slam attack, would that be in line? I feel like as-is it's too weak for a once per short rest feature, but I guess when you compare it to action surge it's actually competing pretty well. I might remove the Berserk refresh then.
    EDIT: I just pulled it entirely back to a short or a long rest, then increased the duration of the AC bonus and Reflex bonus to "while you are berserk, up to 1 minute". That second part is tentative though, since it has negative synergy with itself (it reduces the odds that you are able to trigger a berserk state to maintain it).

    On reading Divine Berserk, I realize that you can't use Berserk any time you take damage, only when it reduces you to half health or less, which makes Haste much more reasonable - up until level 20, when it becomes even more unreasonable as Berserk no longer has a change of forcing you to attack allies. It's a capstone, though, so is probably fine.
    If I remove the Berserk refresh above, I'll probably add in a weaker version of it onto the capstone, which would I think be underwhelming without Haste.
    EDIT: Weaker version lets you re-attempt a missed Slam instead of granting an extra slam. As with the level 18 slam improvement, this means that Clay Golem at 20 moves the minimum bar up without adjusting the maximum bar.

    Question about Steel Edge: does it still count as using a slam attack for the purpose of "only once per turn"? You're not technically making a slam attack, just using its damage, so if you multiclassed into this class from one with Extra Attack, you could be doubling your slam damage every turn.
    Intent is that it doesn't allow more than one "slam-power" attack per turn. I will fix the wording to clarify that you can only use it when you would be eligible to make a slam attack in the first place (still possibly worth a 6 level dip for an extra attack class for the +2 and the single attack, but not strictly better than just keeping in the original class for Extra Attack (3) or Improved Divine Smite or what have you).

    Not sure why Supercharged restores after a long rest when most of the rest-limited stuff so far has been short or long rest. Is this a short-rest or long-rest class? Either way, I suggest standardizing its restoration times.
    I'll fix this.


    Thanks for the feedback! Updates should go up on all three readable formats (GMBinder, PDF, Forum Post) in the next hour or so.
    EDIT: Updates pushed.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2019-03-08 at 04:55 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Thank you both very much for your feedback. Some general notes and answers for both of you:

    Yes, there's a lot of missing details and formatting on this. My apologies - when I'm making something I tend to just put in the broad strokes, with my mind feeling in the details, but when I'm putting something up for others to see that's not really polite but I sometimes (often) forget. My next round of changes will start with just putting in all the general formatting and editing upgrades. (I'd also intended to go back and do some more editing and additions the next day, and that didn't quite end up happening...)

    I also want to point out the general design goal and idea here. This is honestly more of a showpiece and a campaign tool than a normal class. First off, it simply does not work as a multiclass. I'm going to add a note with the updates that you can not multiclass into or out of the class. Additionally, fluff wise, it really only works in the context of a 1-20 campaign. What I think it works better for are NPCs, where the leveling can be a lot more arbitrary and quick, and where the full implications of the class - and the final step - can really be roleplayed out by the whole group. That said, I am trying to make it a real and viable class, but I thought it was important to put that idea up front.

    That said, some specific feedback:

    MoleMage
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Unarmed Attack should have an ability entry explaining any restrictions or special characteristics (if there aren't any, just saying "your unarmed strikes do damage as indicated in the table"). I'm okay with it outscaling Monk only because there's no flurry of blows option.
    The other reason I'm setting it at "monk but slightly better" is that this will be a much more streamlined class. While the Elder Elementals have a bit more meat to hook class features to, the core of the monster is still relatively simple. I wanted to maintain a bit of that, so the class is intended more on the Champion Fighter/Barbarian end of the scale, and to make up for their lack of options I wanted the offense to be a bit more punchier as a baseline.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    The description of Improved Elemental Body doesn't match its effect (I'm emotionally deadened, which means I can't be paralyzed or turned into stone by magic). That number of immunities might also be a bit much for level 7 (though condition immunities are pretty niche).
    The intent was to show that, as their body becomes more and more elemental, they're losing touch with common human touchstones. In this case the flavor text alludes to their sense of touch being lost - after all, I'm guessing most elements don't really possess that sense in any way analogous to humans. And it's this severing of yet more of their humanity - which is tied to their increased elemental characteristics - that drives the emotional deadness, not the immunities themselves. And yeah, I know there's a lot there, but as you said its all basically niche so I thought it would be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Elemental Servants: When I get this feature, I'm getting 4 or 6 mephits right away. This is not a problem balance-wise (as mephits are fairly weak), but it is a headache to keep track of. Also, it doesn't specify how you give commands to the mephits. Do they have their own initiative or share mine? Do I use an action, bonus action, or no action to command them? Does every mephit take the same general action or does each act independently? Check out Beastmaster Ranger and the Find Familiar or Conjure X line of spells for examples of specifics.
    Yep, will be clarifying all that. They're most intended for out of combat, though I think I might come up with a simple "group" rule for using them in combat to make them more streamlined.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Apotheosis is too strong while it's up and offers no benefit while it's down. Assuming the intended ~2 fights between short rests, in roughly half of fights I'm carrying the day with my free HP, double damage, free Reaction attack, and reach, and in the other half of fights I'm plinking away with my 1d8+Str.
    I put it at this level to match when the Paladin gets their free +1d8 per hit. Which is what this was intended to mirror, albeit with extra impacts. I think I might move the Reaction ability out to a separate level (intended to be a minor form of Legendary Action, by the way), cut the temp HP, and make this usable more often.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Earth: Relentless Assault: Do you mean damage dice? If so, this has a strange progression, as it becomes less likely to trigger as you level until you hit 17 where it has a huge spike in likelihood when you move from 1d10 (~20% chance) to 2d6 (5 out of 9 times or roughly ~55% chance). If not, it only really matters on a crit or if you get a nat 1 on half of an advantage roll. Obviously after level 6 this only decides whether they are disadvantaged on their save, but it's still worth noting the odd scale jump.
    You're right. Tempted to go the 13th Age route and just tie it to something like "even on the attack roll", but I'm not sure how I feel about introducing that mechanic into a 5E game. I'll have to think about other ways to trigger this.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Earth: Shattering Movement: Is there a minimum amount of movement? Does it work if I just step away and then back to where I started? I'd also separate out the concentration loss as requiring a concentration save against the same DC as the knockdown effect.
    Meant to mirror a similar ability on the Zeratan, where it's 10 feet. So I'll add that in as well. The DC thing makes some more sense, but also means the target is rolling two separate saves which I'm not fond of. I'll have to think on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Water: Sweeping Attack: This occupies a very similar strategic role to Earth's Relentless Assault. Relentless Assault is better against enemies too large to shove and high-dex low-str enemies while Sweeping Attack is better against enemies with saving throw bonuses or legendary resistance, but otherwise they form the same general purpose.
    I honestly just forgot Shove was for both pushing and knocking prone. I'll clarify this is specifically for pushing. The 6th level upgrade will explicitly make this movement trigger AoEs for their attack bump, making this more of an attack proc ability vs the advantage granting/movement stopping ability from Earth.


    theVoidWatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Elemental Servants is cool but things that scale off of proficiency bonus generally feel a little odd when they're linked to a specific class. If you get this and then start multiclassing into Fighter, say, they you'll still be able to summon more mephits. Also, the implication that you can summon mephits that aren't aligned to your element is weird. Why would a water elemental be able to summon magma mephits, for example?
    Generally speaking I love the concept, but I think you need to include details on exactly what the mephits will and won't do for you. Will they join you in battle, for example?
    So the proficiency thing should be fixed just because the class won't allow a multiclass. The thing about being able to summon different types has two reasons. First, I just didn't want to type a fixed list of mephits each subclass could summon. But beyond that, it fit with the fluff I imagine for the Elder Elementals this class leads into. They're described as these mythical, god-like elementals that reach that level by, amongst other things, literally devouring other elementals to take their power into themselves. I see the mephits as being drawn to the Elemental Scion in the same way sprites might be to finding the Lady of Winter wandering around in Cleveland - I mean, even if you're not on her team, there's a certain amount of "what is even going on here?" curiosity that draws them in. And I'll definitely be putting in more rules for how it works mechanically, possibly even a few lines of fluff to allude to just how interested the mephits are in the character.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Whichever feature gives you your unarmed strike appears to be missing. Extra Attack is also missing from outside of the class table, as is the Ability Score Improvement feature.
    Yep, just shoddy editing on my part - forgot the class entries usually expand on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Seriously, good job on the flavor text.
    I'll admit the flavor text is basically the only reason this exists. Once I had the idea for the flavor, I just had to actually sit down and make it.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    This goes for all bloodlines: "their damage type is thunder". I assume that this is for the unarmed attacks?
    A swing and a miss on my part, which I'll need to clarify. It's actually so that when the base class refers to energy damage, it doesn't have to clarify what type each subclass gets. I'll refine the terminology though and make it more clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Flowing Assault is real nice. Improved Flowing Assault obsoletes it a little quickly, though (especially coming just one level after you already get a consistent 2 attacks every round). Maybe push it back to 9th level?
    Yeah, once the basic editing gets taken care of moving the abilities around to more appropriate levels is the next priority. This was very much a first pass, "figure out something for every level" effort and it definitely shows.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Slumbering Soul (presumably) makes your unarmed attacks be bludgeoning damage, but it doesn't look like your damage ever ends up counting as magical for damage resistances. I suggest adding that in somewhere.
    An obvious and important addition I forgot about. Will do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Flame Wings felt a little weird at first (after all, fire elementals don't have a fly speed) until I remembered that your true form with this subclass is a Phoenix.
    This is another one of the reasons I think this works a bit better on an NPC than as a PC class, or at minimum as a class that isn't just read through by the whole group. I like to imagine the entire game the players are aware something doesn't quite add up about their friend - why is he so weird? Why does his elemental powers not quite match the standard elementals? And then they get to this level, and the wings come out, and they start to slowly piece together the pieces. And then the first time the character busts out True Apotheosis and it all clicks. I'll also admit I'm quite happy with how the class reads - that slowly unfolding sense that what you thought you were reading is not, at all, actually that. And then that final bit of the puzzle at the end where you realize you weren't reading about playing an elemental at all, but instead the living embodiment of a natural disaster.


    Uselss Navel Gazing and Inspiration Discussion
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    Inspiration for this class was two rather divergent media - Naruto and Terry Pratchett. This class is basically a playable version of Naruto if the nine taled fox, instead of being embedded in an actual human, was instead just put into a human shape and given false memories of humanity. And while that shape works for a while, the sheer power of what they entombed - hoping to prevent it just reforming on the elemental planes if actually destroyed - makes itself known again.

    And yet I couldn't stop thinking about what that experience might do to the creature. I'm especially thinking of the end of Wintersmith, one of many excellent novels from Pratchett, and how Winter was changed by the experience. During the course of the book Winter attempts, and fails, to understand humanity. But I have to wonder if the experience would have a lasting impact on it.

    So used on an NPC, either in campaign or in backstory, I wonder what impact the class might have on a game world. I imagine a Pheonix which is known and feared, but which spends one day, every year, standing vigil in a meadow. And though none remember it, there were once a young man and a young woman who met in that meadow, and even if the Pheonix can't quite remember why that was important, it knows deep in its heart it was. And so on the anniversary of that day it ceases its endless destruction and tries to remember a thing it once knew. Or a Zaratan which quakes the world, rending cities once upon a time, but now everyone knows how to stop it. All you have to do is have someone play the pipes in front of your city where the Zaratan can here it, and it simply turns away. Essentially contained, and yet once upon a time the being it was convinced it was travelled with a young bard, and his playing was clumsy and sweet. And the thought of destroying one who would make such music is anathema, even in his current form. And so on.

    At least, that's how I'm planning on using this class in my own campaign, once complete. Less a player resourse than a world building one.


    Thank you both for reading my weird classes and sharing your feedback. It'll probably be the end of the week before I actually have time to go back and make use of it, but I wanted to thank you now for doing so.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    By my count, there is only three to four days left until the competition comes to an end. Make your last minute changes to your classes soon, if you have to.
    Last edited by Requilac; 2019-03-20 at 10:16 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    "By my count, there is only three to four days left until the competition comes to an end. Make your last minute changes to your classes soon, if you have to."

    From the submission thred the written end date 23 of april. I have had test and taking my time to submit anything since I thought it was a month left. Well I'm submitting the subclass-less version at the very least (subclasses still need work).

    BY the way, the link above is to the winter competion and not the monster one, actualy finding the monsterthread is a bit of a hassel.
    Last edited by Descole; 2019-03-20 at 02:13 AM.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Snipped...

    5) Your class must have fully completed mechanics and descriptions for it to be valid. Entries are due at 11:59 pm on April 23rd Eastern Standard Time. Any submissions after this point are invalid. No changes can be made to your class while voting is taking place. Failure to comply with the previous rule will result in disqualification.

    Snipped...
    I was working off of the April deadline and was pretty happy about it too. I thought I might actually be able to finish a character class this time. Oh well, another unfinished class concept to add to the pile.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Attention Everyone: The end of the class competition is not actually in 3 or 4 days, it ends in over a month. My previous alert was inaccurate, and a mistake caused by me misremembering what the deadline truly was. Please follow the deadline mentioned in the Submissions thread and not the one that I just brought up. You all still have a month left to work on your classes, and the deadline is April 23rd, not March 23rd. Sorry everybody, this shouldn’t happen again.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Decided to add in a Tiger subclass which gives you some magic, because tigers are cool and sometimes associated with magic. I assembled the spell list primarily from spells that have to do with animals, illusions, and enchantments, because my version of lycanthropy connects you to an animal spirit and because the moon is often associated with madness and lies. I tried to limit the spell list's damage-dealing potential because it's still supposed to be a martial class.
    I'd appreciate feedback on it, especially on its Fueled by Moonlight features and the way you get (a very limited number of) spells

    Might add in an eagle or rabbit subclass that ups your mobility a bunch, but I'm not sure. Eagle wouldn't give you flight until level 6, rabbit would probably up your mobility repeatedly.

    EDIT: Added the Eagle. I don't have any specific balance concerns about it, but feedback is always appreciated. It uses Giant Owl as the stats for your animal form primarily because I'm trying to keep the initial CR of the animal forms below 1 to start. For the same reason the Tiger turns you into a Panther rather than a Tiger.
    Last edited by theVoidWatches; 2019-03-22 at 10:39 AM.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



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    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    Decided to add in a Tiger subclass which gives you some magic, because tigers are cool and sometimes associated with magic. I assembled the spell list primarily from spells that have to do with animals, illusions, and enchantments, because my version of lycanthropy connects you to an animal spirit and because the moon is often associated with madness and lies. I tried to limit the spell list's damage-dealing potential because it's still supposed to be a martial class.
    I'd appreciate feedback on it, especially on its Fueled by Moonlight features and the way you get (a very limited number of) spells

    Might add in an eagle or rabbit subclass that ups your mobility a bunch, but I'm not sure. Eagle wouldn't give you flight until level 6, rabbit would probably up your mobility repeatedly.

    EDIT: Added the Eagle. I don't have any specific balance concerns about it, but feedback is always appreciated. It uses Giant Owl as the stats for your animal form primarily because I'm trying to keep the initial CR of the animal forms below 1 to start. For the same reason the Tiger turns you into a Panther rather than a Tiger.
    Feedback on the new subclasses:

    • Giant Owl means flight at level 1. Not the worst possible thing (Aarakocra and variant Tiefling can have this as a racial), but still messes with the expectations of a level 1 character.
    • You have at least one case where you left a "rat" in the giant owl transformation feature.
    • Charging Slash requires that you move 20 feet before making the attack. Is that per attack (when I get extra attack, do I have to move 20 feet, then attack, then another 20 feet, then attack if I want to use Charging Slash twice?), or just any time before (20 feet, I can use Charging Slash on any/all attacks this round)?
    • Rest of owl eagle looks fine, though you should clarify that Flight's move speed increase is on top of Aerodynamic's.
    • Tiger is tricky to gauge. The issue for me is that you already have your Moon Dice used in so many features. You have hybrid form, full transformation, three fueled by moonlight options, Lunar Resilience, and Pack Leader. With spells added on top of that, Tiger is going to feel very resource starved.
    • Mystical Power is too expensive for its benefit, except when it's too powerful to allow (imagine applying it to the number of targets allowed by bane or the amount of temporary hit points granted by heroism, and that's just first level options without considering Magic Initiate or multiclassing to pick spells outside of the class. Bless/Bane normally allows 3 targets+1 per upcast. Now instead of upcasting to 3rd level, I can cast it on 3+2d6 targets for the same cost. Or in Bestow Curse's description (first option) it says "Choose one ability score." (emphasis mine). Admittedly, dropping 5 dice on Bestow Curse is pricey, but now I can force a creature that fails its save to suffer disadvantage on half of all saves minimum).
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Feedback on the new subclasses:

    • Giant Owl means flight at level 1. Not the worst possible thing (Aarakocra and variant Tiefling can have this as a racial), but still messes with the expectations of a level 1 character.



    True. It costs resources, at least, while those two don't.


    • You have at least one case where you left a "rat" in the giant owl transformation feature.


    Fixed, thank you.


    • Charging Slash requires that you move 20 feet before making the attack. Is that per attack (when I get extra attack, do I have to move 20 feet, then attack, then another 20 feet, then attack if I want to use Charging Slash twice?), or just any time before (20 feet, I can use Charging Slash on any/all attacks this round)?


    Wording clarified. You're supposed to need to move at least 20 feet and then be able to use it once.


    • Rest of owl eagle looks fine, though you should clarify that Flight's move speed increase is on top of Aerodynamic's.


    Fixed, thank you.


    • Tiger is tricky to gauge. The issue for me is that you already have your Moon Dice used in so many features. You have hybrid form, full transformation, three fueled by moonlight options, Lunar Resilience, and Pack Leader. With spells added on top of that, Tiger is going to feel very resource starved.


    That's true, although I'm not sure how to fix it. Giving the tiger full 1/2 or 1/3 casting is probably too much resource management for one class (dice AND spell slots), but giving them extra dice is probably not good either.

    Maybe instead of Mystical Power, they can get an option to recover dice when they use them to cast? Maybe something like "Once per turn after spending one or more Moon Dice to cast a spell, roll 1d6. If your result is greater the spell level of the spell cast, recover one expending Moon Die." ... actually, that would give you almost unlimited 1st level spells, and Friend of the Moon will combo with it to be WAY too good. Giving you a Moon Die back when you kill someone while concentrating on a spell, maybe? I'll think about this.


    • Mystical Power is too expensive for its benefit, except when it's too powerful to allow (imagine applying it to the number of targets allowed by bane or the amount of temporary hit points granted by heroism, and that's just first level options without considering Magic Initiate or multiclassing to pick spells outside of the class. Bless/Bane normally allows 3 targets+1 per upcast. Now instead of upcasting to 3rd level, I can cast it on 3+2d6 targets for the same cost. Or in Bestow Curse's description (first option) it says "Choose one ability score." (emphasis mine). Admittedly, dropping 5 dice on Bestow Curse is pricey, but now I can force a creature that fails its save to suffer disadvantage on half of all saves minimum).
    I will point out that Mystical Power only works on spells you cast with Lunar Mysticism, and that only lets you cast spells that you learn from this class, so multiclassing and Magic Initiative don't actually expand your list for this. But I take your meaning, and you're not wrong that it's potentially really powerful (which is part of why there are so few damaging spells on the spell list). I was trying to think of interesting ways to power up spells that wouldn't step on the toes of a sorcerer's metamagic, and this is what I came up with - perhaps it should be something else instead, although I'm unsure what. Ideally it's something that can be impactful with only one or two dice, and which Friends of the Moon can boost without breaking.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Just checking in on the other classes and I don't see any updates or changes since the last time I looked in on them. We only have around 3 weeks left to get everything nice and polished for the voting period. How is everyone doing?
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Just realized that I forgot to update the Tiger's first Fueled by Moonlight feature. It now basically makes your weapon attacks +1 magic weapons whenever you're concentrating on a spell, and after knocking someone to 0 you can expend it (until the next time you cast a spell) to regain 1 (later 2) lost Moon Dice.
    Last edited by theVoidWatches; 2019-04-05 at 04:05 PM.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Just checking in on the other classes and I don't see any updates or changes since the last time I looked in on them. We only have around 3 weeks left to get everything nice and polished for the voting period. How is everyone doing?
    Yeah, I'm still going to update mine, it's not abandoned. I've just not been able to put any time into this lately for a variety of reasons. But I will be making changes, hopefully soon, and I'll put a message in here when I'm done.

    (And I have been thinking a lot about those changes, even if I haven't actually made any in forever.)

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest VI Chat Thread

    Alright everybody, it is now time to get to voting. And I am sure of it this time. No more changes to classes can be made after this point until the voting ends on May 4th EST. Follow this link to cast your ballot.
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    Check here for my extended homebrew signature!

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