Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 26 of 51 FirstFirst ... 161718192021222324252627282930313233343536 ... LastLast
Results 751 to 780 of 1503
  1. - Top - End - #751
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a castle under the sea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    Actually small races have better carrying capacity than medium characters, you are trading 1/4th of your carrying capacity for everything to weigh 1/2 its original weight. That right there is a great return for everything that is properly sized for you as a small race...
    A pack mule that only carries its own tack is pretty terrible.


    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    I think the canoloth makes a better minion than PC.
    Then let's consider its value as a cohort.
    Most of its raw numbers are almost identical to a barbarian of equal hit dice, aside from how the canoloth's primary attack deals almost no damage and its secondary attack has a decent attack bonus. The blindsight has its uses even as mere "support senses," and the canoloth's various minor abilities are definitely more useful than the barbarian's rage, trap sense, and uncanny dodge. Advancement isn't too terrible an issue; pick a martial class you like and run with it. The nonhumanoid physique and blindness have their drawbacks, but I still think +1 or +2 is a decent level adjustment...especially as a necromancer's cohort.
    It's arguable that this sort of logic shouldn't apply to a PC, but I'd think that the PC would be able to synergize with teammates almost as well as a cohort synergizes with their "master". I feel comfortable calling the canoloth a +1, maybe +0.

    Blindsight ... is terrible. Anything that screws with hearing or smelling leaves you blind with a free copy of the Blind-Fight feat, if both are screwed with, you're screwed. And the source of the interference can be mundane.
    And Canoloths are a low enough Knowledge check that anybody with the skills will know to shaft you.
    The skills and preparation time. You won't want to let people know you're attacking, but if you catch them unawares you shouldn't have any serious problems (unless they're an arcane trickster with silence up his sleeve or something). It's not nothing, but being able to operate even in magical darkness is nice. I'd call it a roughly trade-off even with human vision, depending on your ratio of random encounters to personal enemies.


    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    "Overpowering odors (such as stinking cloud, cloudkill, or incense-heavy air)."


    Does not bode well for their ability to smell through things.
    They don't even have the scent special ability.
    Fraudulent lack of context. The entry just says canoloths are affected normally by overpowering odors, as well as loud noises and sound-based spells; there's nothing to suggest these can negate the canoloth's senses. They're not even mentioned in the same sentence!


    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    [The canoloth is] standing just down the road from my house, at a crossroads. Its blindsight is blocked by the shrubbery on the other side of the road before it gets blocked by the 40-ft range limit. The main issue that the 40 foot limit presents it with is the inability to see further down the road. Yes, it can be a pain. But it's not much of a pain.
    As long as it's a pedestrian. I wouldn't trust one behind the wheel, and not just because it doesn't have thumbs.


    Quote Originally Posted by flare'90 View Post
    Or you could use silence, stinking cloud, ghost sound, literally any illusion with olfactory/sound component to effectively blind a Canoloth. Hell, even environmental factors that a normal PC wouldn't mind can do the same, like a heavy ambient smell (incense, waste, etc) or background noises (waterfalls, grinding machinery,...).
    Stinking cloud and ghost sound don't blind the canoloth, they "affect it normally". Illusions with a visual component screw with humans as badly as olfactory/auditory illusions screw with canoloths (arguably worse, since you need both senses to properly blind a canoloth). That leaves silence, to which I counter: darkness. It's a different spell, but last I checked they were both second-level or so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    See, I haven't really ever played in a traditional dungeon crawl style game: I'm used to wide-open spaces and encounters that can start well over 100 feet away. But, if you're playing exclusively in a dungeon crawl, then you're right, the canoloth's senses aren't that big a disadvantage.
    I've played plenty of outdoorsy games, and encounters involving distances over 100 feet are rare. Part of this is because not many people have battlemaps that size, but most of it is because most PCs and monsters have a very narrow range of options at that range. The canoloth's range of options is only slightly narrower than an equally-leveled barbarian's.
    Sure, it can't pinpoint enemies beyond 100 feet, but:
    A. If you're not in an open field, sighted characters probably can't either.
    B. Canoloths can still hear beyond the range of their blindsight, which is more than enough information to point them in the right direction if their foes aren't stealthy. And if you can't tell what direction the arrows are coming from.
    C. Canoloth PCs probably have buddies with sight who can point them in the right direction.

    Is the blindness a weakness that can be exploited? Yes. Is it easy to exploit? No!
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
    Fanfic

    Avatar by Recaiden.

  2. - Top - End - #752
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    I've played plenty of outdoorsy games, and encounters involving distances over 100 feet are rare. Part of this is because not many people have battlemaps that size, but most of it is because most PCs and monsters have a very narrow range of options at that range. The canoloth's range of options is only slightly narrower than an equally-leveled barbarian's.
    Sure, it can't pinpoint enemies beyond 100 feet, but:
    A. If you're not in an open field, sighted characters probably can't either.
    B. Canoloths can still hear beyond the range of their blindsight, which is more than enough information to point them in the right direction if their foes aren't stealthy. And if you can't tell what direction the arrows are coming from.
    C. Canoloth PCs probably have buddies with sight who can point them in the right direction.

    Is the blindness a weakness that can be exploited? Yes. Is it easy to exploit? No!
    And that's a good point, too. Short-range encounters are much more practical for DMs and easier to adjudicate, so encounters do tend to occur on much smaller scales than you might expect from "realism." But I don't feel like 100-ft encounters have been all that uncommon in my experience. Certainly less common than 40-ft encounters, but still not that uncommon. I guess I personally run lots of encounters with big battlefields, so maybe that's skewing my perception here. But technically, if you look at the terrain rules, PCs are entitled to make Spot checks at 2d6 x 10 ft (average 70 ft) in the most vision-impairing wilderness terrains, such as dense forests and rugged hills, so if we're trying to hold close to RAW, we should be assuming that the canoloth is at a noticeable disadvantage in these encounters.

    But then, it isn't a hard limit at 40 ft, because the canoloth is still entitled to make Listen checks at the same range as anyone else; so it's not like they're completely unaware of the world beyond 40 ft. But, they are significantly handicapped, so it would sure be nice if there were any options anywhere for increasing its Blindsight range.

  3. - Top - End - #753
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a castle under the sea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    But then, it isn't a hard limit at 40 ft, because the canoloth is still entitled to make Listen checks at the same range as anyone else; so it's not like they're completely unaware of the world beyond 40 ft. But, they are significantly handicapped, so it would sure be nice if there were any options anywhere for increasing its Blindsight range.
    Mindsight gets what will usually be the most critical information, out to 100 feet. Can't think of any other options, though...
    Maybe it would be simpler to look for the cheapest way to see through another creature's eyes. If it takes more than a one-level dip it's probably not worth it, but if it just takes a level in Telepathic Clairvoyant or 23,007 gold pieces for a pair of mindlink rings or something...
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
    Fanfic

    Avatar by Recaiden.

  4. - Top - End - #754
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Mindsight gets what will usually be the most critical information, out to 100 feet. Can't think of any other options, though...
    Maybe it would be simpler to look for the cheapest way to see through another creature's eyes. If it takes more than a one-level dip it's probably not worth it, but if it just takes a level in Telepathic Clairvoyant or 23,007 gold pieces for a pair of mindlink rings or something...
    Continuous item of Chain of Eyes is 12000 GP and probably the coolest way to do it.

    There's also the Skum Eyes, which are 600 GP and unlike most other grafts don't mention replacing your existent eyes, but they require you to be at least somewhat mutated by aboleth slime and can only be grafted onto someone by aboleths.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2019-04-22 at 01:22 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  5. - Top - End - #755
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Alternatively, just hire a seeing-eye-human to handle the spotting past the 40/100 feet range?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #756
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Alternatively, just hire a seeing-eye-human to handle the spotting past the 40/100 feet range?
    Heh. Get a Leadership follower who is a Psion (or hire one), get them to manifest Sense Link on you in combats, let everyone assume you are the familiar/cohort/whatever.

  7. - Top - End - #757
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a castle under the sea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    Heh. Get a Leadership follower who is a Psion (or hire one), get them to manifest Sense Link on you in combats, let everyone assume you are the familiar/cohort/whatever.
    Now isn't that a lovely idea for a villain?
    Though for maximal villain points, give the canoloth psion the ability to sense link and transform their cohort into a specific form; whenever the seeing-eye human fails them, they are disposed of and a new one found. Maybe give the cohort a psicrystal embedded into them, which could potentially circumvent the sense link thing, probably let the canoloth telepath with anyone near the psicrystal/cohort, and might let the canoloth treat the cohort as its psicrystal. It should definitely let the canoloth manifest powers from the cohort's location.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
    Fanfic

    Avatar by Recaiden.

  8. - Top - End - #758
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    Barbarians can't read either though. As long as someone else in the party can read and is ccoperative, I don't expect massive issues on this front. If you're playing in a campaign where reading is a must, but playing a monster like this isn't an issue, you could acquire a familiar in some way to read texts for you.
    Barbarians are illiterate and can spend one skill point to overcome said literacy issue. Canoloth can't read period, that means can't use scrolls, be a wizard, archivist, and so on so forth. It is a much more dramatic problem then being an illiterate barbarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Remember that you need to negate both of its hearing and smell for it to be completely blinded. In the normal course of events, neither of these is negated (and again, I don't know of anything that can actually negate its smell) and outside of that, blindsight is massively advantageous since it works as truesight and ultravision at the same time. Invisible creature in magical darkness? You can still see it. Blindness beyond 40 feet isn't a huge deal in a lot of cases (I live in a fairly big house, and the room I'm in is a lot wider than it is long. It's brushing up against 20 feet wide - I'm relatively confident there's nowhere in this house you could put a canoloth and it not be able to see at least as much as a human can). "You can't see things if someone manages to deafen and anosmicise you" is a very, very niche drawback - by comparison, you can just blind a human with one spell (blindness/deafness) rather than needing to use one spell (blindness/deafness) plus some (nonexistent AFAICT) way of negating a sense of smell.
    Major image can easily 'blind' a Canoloth, afb but I think there is a source talking about using chilipowder and some other alchemical items to ruin sense of smell and or mask odors. There are also things like thunderstones. So it isn't exactly hard to 'blind' one of these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Just off the top of my head, Ranger or Rogue.
    Having for example 14 dex and 14 int though point buy is nice.
    But turning it into 16 dex and 12 int is even nicer.
    Dex is important to both rangers and rogues, but both are skillmonkies to some extent and you aren't going to be looking at int as your first ability score to dump in exchange for more dex. In fct that is normally shooting you in the foot. Hell I often play face rogues and I would dump cha before I dumped int...

  9. - Top - End - #759
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Major image can easily 'blind' a Canoloth, afb but I think there is a source talking about using chilipowder and some other alchemical items to ruin sense of smell and or mask odors. There are also things like thunderstones. So it isn't exactly hard to 'blind' one of these things.
    Its the other way around, Major image is more likely to blind a regular person that a Canoloth.
    For a regular person you just need to mess with 1 sense. For the Canoloth its two.

    Dex is important to both rangers and rogues, but both are skillmonkies to some extent and you aren't going to be looking at int as your first ability score to dump in exchange for more dex. In fct that is normally shooting you in the foot. Hell I often play face rogues and I would dump cha before I dumped int...
    If you can do a 1-1 trade? And want to be even moderatly useful in combat?
    Then you can be dam sure not trading 1 point of int bonus for 1 point of dex bonus is shooting yourself in the foot.

    Going from 10 skill points per level to 9 is a fairly minimal change.
    Your still going to be able to fullfill your skillmonkey duties.
    But that point of dex is going to help keep you alive.
    Its going to make you harder to hit, hit better, react faster and dodge fireballs.

    I certainly cant remember seeing any ranger/rogues builds who had a higher int than dex.
    And calling it dumping int is for that matter setting up a strawman. Settling for a 12 in a ability score is in no way the same as dumping it.
    That would be if you left it at 8.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #760
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    Major image can easily 'blind' a Canoloth, afb but I think there is a source talking about using chilipowder and some other alchemical items to ruin sense of smell and or mask odors. There are also things like thunderstones. So it isn't exactly hard to 'blind' one of these things.
    It's not made clear just how overpowering the noises and smells made by Major Image are. What is made clear is that you can create completely impenetrable visual barriers, so y'know, it's not like humans are blinded any less easily.

    Also, how many monsters have thunderstones as part of their default equipment? Sure, someone could specifically prepare to take out a canoloth by blinding it, but again, it's not like the same person could just as easily prepare to blind humans (flash pellets).
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  11. - Top - End - #761
    Troll in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Wouldn't Desert Tempest work with the tongue?
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!


    Extended signature here.

  12. - Top - End - #762
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Wouldn't Desert Tempest work with the tongue?
    Interesting, hadn't read that one before. A bit like Dance of Death when you bind Paimon.

  13. - Top - End - #763
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    There are likely also some Maneuvers who works with it.
    Like Flashing Sun?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  14. - Top - End - #764
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Voting for the canoloth! I must say, it's not often that three different ratings all get a reasonable chunk of the votes.

    -0: 3 votes
    +0: 11 votes
    +1: 3 votes

    While initially, most people voted for +1 or -0, later on a lot of votes tended towards the middle rating of +0.

    In light of this, the LA will be reduced to +0.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  15. - Top - End - #765
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yugoloth, Mezzoloth


    Medium-sized, with 10 outsider RHD and actual item-holding limbs, as well as a horrible outdated description (Teleport Without Error hasn't been a thing for a while now, guys).

    In terms of stats, they are... underwhelming. 16 strength isn't just below average for a monster, it's something an orc could innately have by now, considering that ability increases are a thing. 12 dexterity is meh, 21 constitution is, uniquely for this thing's stats, acceptable, and the less said about 7/10/14 mental stats the better. I guess those abilities are kind-of on par with things like the bearded devil (which has a similar role and CR), but at least the bearded devil isn't weighed down by this many HD.

    In terms of special abilities, mezzoloths are hardly special either. Telepathy, DR/good, acid and poison immunity, SR, energy resistances... We've all seen it before. The SLAs are underwhelming (at-will Cause Fear, Darkness, Desecrate, Produce Flame and See Invisibility are terrible, 2/day Cloudkill, Greater Teleport, and Dispel Magic are okay I guess). The Summon Yugoloth ability is somehow worse than the canoloth's, just to add insult to injury.

    Anyway: is the mezzoloth worth +0 LA? I'm not sure it is. It's got melee abilities on par with an orc warrior, and the two cloudkills it can drop each day don't change that much. It's got defenses that, while okay, aren't impressive, and no real ability to draw aggro. It doesn't have class features, or anything worth sinking 10 levels in. The same ten levels, naturally, also make it so that by the time they can enter Fiend of Possession, a character of equal level could be done with it already.

    -0 for now, on account of massive RHD bloat. Maybe remove half of it and see if the mezzoloth improves.


    (Also, speaking of Cloudkill: why was it put on a CR 6 monster? Don't get me wrong, it's nearly useless by mid-levels, but at ECL 6 the PCs will die if they fail a save, and they won't have the magic to come back. Subjecting the entire party to a SoD, twice, seems just a little rough for what should be a fairly typical CR 6 encounter. And that's just one-on-one battles, don't get me started on what's going to happen if a CR 5 canoloth gets lucky when summoning one.)
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2019-04-23 at 11:11 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  16. - Top - End - #766
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Dont they have 4 arms?
    That is a bit of an advantage.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  17. - Top - End - #767
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yeah, clearly a -0.

    You must have a first printing.
    My copy says greater teleport(self pluf 50 pounds of objects only) as a 14th level sorcerer, twice per day.
    Which is straight up awful as far as fiends that get self only teleportation. I can't think of any other that got self only teleportation with a use limit instead of at will.

    Produce Flame at will is actually kind of useful at CR 6. Not so much at ECL 10, though.
    No DM is ever truly out of tricks to mess with his/her players.
    No player is ever truly out of ways to surprise their DM.
    Spoiler
    Show

  18. - Top - End - #768
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TiaC's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    I don't get its attack routine. It's using a shield, which isn't pictured, but whatever, so it only has three arms to attack with. Despite this, it either attacks with two claws or just a trident. The description implies that it has four claws, but the stats don't reflect that.

  19. - Top - End - #769
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    -0. A nasty encounter because of cloudkill x2, but pretty bad as a pc. Thri-keen have better multiweapon fighting if thats what you want at less hd.

  20. - Top - End - #770
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Post Mezzoloth

    • Medium outsider
    • 10RHD - of the best kind, but 10 doesn't leave much room for class levels.
    • 40 ft speed - meh.
    • +8 natural AC - decent, but not that great at this level.
    • 2 claws + 2 arms for weapons - if I'm reading that right? Look at that mouth: why no bite attack?
    • SLAs: at will cause fear, darkness, desecrate, produce flame and see invisibility; 2/day cloudkill, greater teleport and dispel magic - the dailies are nothing to write home about, and neither is dispel magic. Cloudkill 2/day is decent, but a level 10 Sorcerer can throw it 3/day (or 4/day with 20 Cha). 2/day greater telepot is good, but not great due to the weight/gear limit.
    • Summon yugoloth - 1/day, 40% chance of success...not amazing.
    • DR 10/good - not too shabby.
    • Immunity to acid and poison - OKish.
    • Resist cold, fire and electricity 10 - not bad.
    • SR 22 - decent at low-mid levels, but quickly drops off in effectiveness.
    • Telepathy 100 ft - decent.
    • Str +6, Dex +2, Con +10, Int -4, Cha +4: net +18 - decent, but not that impressive at this level.
    • Poor racial skill list - there's a couple of decent skills there, but it's very limited.
    • Medium and mostly humanoid in shape, and you can speak.

    So, all in all, some OK abilities, and possibly the ability to use Multweapon Fighting? Their attack routine and extra limbs seem to be poorly defined: I'm guessing it has 2 claws that are incapable of wielding weapons, and only function as claw attacks, and two "hands" that can wield a weapon (such as a trident, which is a two handed weapon)? Nope, even that isn't inline with the stat block. The drawbacks are a whopping 10 lost levels, and a hit to Int for good measure.

    I'm agreeing with LA -0 here. Shave off a few RHD, and I would consider LA 0.

  21. - Top - End - #771
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Gender
    Intersex

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    The mezzoloth: nemesis of the lothissimo.

    Italian/music jokes aside, a clear -0 on this one. With all respect to outsider hit dice, 10 is too many.

  22. - Top - End - #772
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yeah, those SLAs arenít worth that many RHD. -0.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 27. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  23. - Top - End - #773
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a castle under the sea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    Barbarians are illiterate and can spend one skill point to overcome said literacy issue. Canoloth can't read period, that means can't use scrolls, be a wizard, archivist, and so on so forth. It is a much more dramatic problem then being an illiterate barbarian.
    Eh...I've played several barbarians in my day, and I've rarely seen the need to spend skill points* for literacy. (When I have, I haven't wound up using it.) It's not that big of a drawback. The lack of scroll access is unfortunate, but most spells you'd want to cast with a scroll can be UMD's from another type of item more conveniently or don't need to be cast specifically by you.
    As for "you can't be a wizard/archivist"...so what? Not every race needs to be good at every class. Dwarves make terrible bards, does that make them a -0 race?

    *To nitpick, it's two skill points, not one. (PHB, p. 25)

    Major image can easily 'blind' a Canoloth, afb but I think there is a source talking about using chilipowder and some other alchemical items to ruin sense of smell and or mask odors. There are also things like thunderstones. So it isn't exactly hard to 'blind' one of these things.
    Why do you think strong smells would automatically negate the canoloth's sense of smell? And are you forgetting that you need to deafen and...descent the canoloth to blind them? It's easier to just blind someone than to deafen and descent them.


    The mezzoloth, on the other hand, is definitely not worth it. To repeat the obvious, -0.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
    Fanfic

    Avatar by Recaiden.

  24. - Top - End - #774
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    I'm going along with LA -0 on this one. Yugoloth traits are pretty nice, but you can get them cheaper; and the unique abilities of the mezzoloth don't really stand out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    Yeah, clearly a -0.

    You must have a first printing.
    My copy says greater teleport(self pluf 50 pounds of objects only) as a 14th level sorcerer, twice per day.
    Which is straight up awful as far as fiends that get self only teleportation. I can't think of any other that got self only teleportation with a use limit instead of at will.
    Mine has this too, in the "Combat" section. In the flavor section above, it has a line that says "If the battle is going poorly, mezzoloths use darkness and teleport without error to make a getaway."

    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    Produce Flame at will is actually kind of useful at CR 6. Not so much at ECL 10, though.
    Produce flame is my favorite low-level spell, just for the iconic imagery of a spellcaster holding a flame in the palm of his hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    I don't get its attack routine. It's using a shield, which isn't pictured, but whatever, so it only has three arms to attack with. Despite this, it either attacks with two claws or just a trident. The description implies that it has four claws, but the stats don't reflect that.
    I never noticed that. I don't believe artwork gets any consideration when it comes to determining game mechanics, so it shouldn't matter what the artwork looks like; but I was originally under the impression that the top two arms had pincer-claws, and the bottom two arms had hands. Looking at it again, I'm not sure that's true. At any rate, the descriptive text does say that all four hands are tipped with claws; but as far as monsters go, the stat block trumps the descriptive text, so I guess you only get 2 claws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    The mezzoloth: nemesis of the lothissimo.

    Italian/music jokes aside, a clear -0 on this one. With all respect to outsider hit dice, 10 is too many.
    Bravo, sir. Or, bravissimo... maybe?

    My wife's a music person, so I wanted you to know that at least one person appreciated your joke. :)

  25. - Top - End - #775
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Eh...I've played several barbarians in my day, and I've rarely seen the need to spend skill points* for literacy. (When I have, I haven't wound up using it.) It's not that big of a drawback. The lack of scroll access is unfortunate, but most spells you'd want to cast with a scroll can be UMD's from another type of item more conveniently or don't need to be cast specifically by you.
    As for "you can't be a wizard/archivist"...so what? Not every race needs to be good at every class. Dwarves make terrible bards, does that make them a -0 race?

    *To nitpick, it's two skill points, not one. (PHB, p. 25)


    Why do you think strong smells would automatically negate the canoloth's sense of smell? And are you forgetting that you need to deafen and...descent the canoloth to blind them? It's easier to just blind someone than to deafen and descent them.


    The mezzoloth, on the other hand, is definitely not worth it. To repeat the obvious, -0.
    I brought up major image because people were saying there wasn't a spell that could effectively 'blind' them, but major image can pretty easily. Just create a space with high pitched ringing that has an intense smell of tear gas. Sure it is easier to blind humans but that has nothing to do with its capability to also blind Canoloth.

    And yes with -6 int it has a lot of reasons to not become a wizard/archivist. My point was more that a negative int score dissuades you from becoming a wizard/archivist but doesn't disallow you from doing so. On the other hand being physically incapable of reading is a hard restriction.

    Anyways Mezzoloth is clearly -0.

  26. - Top - End - #776
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Planes of Law

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    I brought up major image because people were saying there wasn't a spell that could effectively 'blind' them, but major image can pretty easily. Just create a space with high pitched ringing that has an intense smell of tear gas. Sure it is easier to blind humans but that has nothing to do with its capability to also blind Canoloth.
    There is no reason to assume Major Image lets you make sounds loud enough to completely deafen creatures, and no reason to assume it lets you shut down the olfactory system of anyone nearby either. All we know is that the spell can make sounds and smells, but assuming that it's sound and smell without limit gets silly very quickly.

    Is there any usage of Major Image in D&D fiction where it completely deafens and/or descents creatures?
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  27. - Top - End - #777
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Remuko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Oof yeah -0 for the mezzolothelioma

  28. - Top - End - #778
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    LA -0 for the Mezzoloth. It has Outsider RHD, but twice as many as you would accept based on the net abilities, with nothing to really show for it.

  29. - Top - End - #779
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yeah, 10 RHD for not a lot, stats or abilities.

    -0.

    I'm not estimating a RHD reduction. Cloudkill becomes a problem at some point, and at 4 to 6 HD it may need a +0*. Kind of defeats the purpose. Just pick something else.

  30. - Top - End - #780
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Question Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    6 or so HD, and swap out Cloudkill for Stinking Cloud?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •