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  1. - Top - End - #931
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Its honestly a short and boring story.
    Bruce Cordell had a Wilder player who picked up Astral construct,
    then used wild surge to make construct 2 levels above whats normally possible.

    That was to OP for his table, so he nerfed Astral Constructs in the book he wrote.
    The End.

    Morale of the story? Bruce Cordell is a hack.
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  2. - Top - End - #932
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    And what do you guys think about the first part of my post? Would that explain at least part of 3.5e's imbalance?
    Most of what I've heard of D&D's playtesting makes it sound like the errors were due to foolishness rather than malice. They see one player finding one way to break a spell and nerf the whole thing instead of correcting that specific exploit, or their only playtest druid ignores half of their class features in favor of scimitar-throwing, or something like that.
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  3. - Top - End - #933
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    How the heck do you manage to get a playable one? Aren't they temporary creations?
    I'm playing in a group with a psion who uses them frequently, and we ruled that each time he summons one it's the same one, with all the memories of its previous iterations.
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  4. - Top - End - #934
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Most of what I've heard of D&D's playtesting makes it sound like the errors were due to foolishness rather than malice. They see one player finding one way to break a spell and nerf the whole thing instead of correcting that specific exploit, or their only playtest druid ignores half of their class features in favor of scimitar-throwing, or something like that.
    Well, a lot of stuff does look like simple oversights; not to mention that a lot of OP exploits generally took a lot of TO to come up with in the first place and a lot of that still needs a lot of effort to put, to the point that most players likely won't even bother.

    Still, there is at least some BS. The Blue is the entry after the next, I think?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    I'm playing in a group with a psion who uses them frequently, and we ruled that each time he summons one it's the same one, with all the memories of its previous iterations.
    Hrm. Could work I guess.
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  5. - Top - End - #935
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Level 1 construct pretty conclusively got a +1 recommended, so that's what it's gonna change to.

    Level 2 construct gets +0.

    Everything past that will remain at -0.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  6. - Top - End - #936
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Blue


    WotC Hates Goblinoids V: this will never stop being funny, right?

    Blues are perhaps the textbook example of an unnecessarily LA'ed race. I mean just look at them: -2 net stats, barely any racial support, no traits except a single bonus power point and +4 to two moderate skills...

    Of course, they ended up at +1 anyway, because being stronger than the regular goblin obviously means you can't be balanced, right?

    Anyway, blues are an easy +0. A pretty poor pick in general, to be honest. Then again, who knows, at least now they have a niche now as a small-sized +intelligence race.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  7. - Top - End - #937
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yep, Blues are +0. One of the big reasons I like these threads is that we can finally give obviously player-friendly races their due. I can't believe anyone writing the book genuinely thought Blues were more powerful than some of the non-LAed player options available. This seems to be another case of "well it's non-standard, so it gets LA". Which is, you know, STUPID. It doesn't even get a racial power like the LA +1 player races in the book.
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  8. - Top - End - #938
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Yeah, easy +0. The net negative stats are unfortunate, but not entirely unworkable (STR and CHA are, after all, the most “optional” stats in that you’re less likely to be forced to notice a deficit regardless of build compared to the other four). 30’ speed on a Small critter isn’t unique but is still above average. Bonuses to INT are rare among low-ECL options. 1 extra PP is a little insultingly small, but it can be used as a prerequisite. This is totally playable at +0.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    +0 all the way for Blue. Small sized + int race that dumps the dump stats for Int based casters?

    Also the bonus PP can be nice for Psions or any INT caster that wants to use feats that require a psionic focus.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    +0, for the reasons others have said. I honestly wouldn't want to play one if almost any other PC race were available, but my dislike isn't enough reason for a -0.
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  11. - Top - End - #941
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    I honestly can see why they ended up as a +1 race. Or well why Wizards made them one.
    Being small is useful for a caster. And so are +int.
    But all the same, no, they do fit better with in with the rest of the PHB races.
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  12. - Top - End - #942
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    LA +0, not much to see here. Small races with 30 ft speed and other good stuff officially got LA +0, as did a Core +Int race with useful features. Just no conceivable excuse for this, WOTC.
    Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2019-05-11 at 03:55 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #943
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    +0 for blue. Other than being a goblinoid no issues. It is fine at 0.

  14. - Top - End - #944
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    Post Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    I've been pretty quiet with the psionic creatures, but due to WotCs overwhelming hate of goblinoids as PCs, I have to chime in here.

    • Small Humanoid (goblin, psionic)
    • 30ft move - respectable for a small creature.
    • Darkvision 60 ft - not bad.
    • Str -2, Int +2, Cha -2: net -2. Yeah.
    • Naturally Psionic: Blues gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level - whoop-dee-friggin-doo! This is what WotC think is worth LA +1??? Take a look at half the races presented in this same book: Elans, 2 bonus power points, LA +0; Maenads, 2 bonus power points, LA +0; Xephs, 1 bonus power point, LA +0. The issue is that ALL of these races get other goodies too - better than Darkvision and a bonus to two skills.
    • +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks and Ride checks - not bad.
    • Small humanoid which can speak - no issues with class levels or most gear.

    To call this anything other than LA +0 would be a travesty. The only "issue" I can see is that they are strictly better than regular Goblins, but not by enough to earn an LA. In fact, I'm seriously considering wiping the -2 Cha for regular Goblins in my own game, similarly to how I adjusted Half-Orcs so that they get net +0 ability modifiers.

    Don't even get me started on Snow Goblins...

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperMagnum357 View Post
    LA +0, not much to see here. Small races with 30 ft speed and other good stuff officially got LA +0, as did a Core +Int race with useful features. Just no conceivable excuse for this, WOTC.
    Yeah, Whisper Gnome comes to mind for a comparison point for small races...

  15. - Top - End - #945
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Behold the Blue, Exhibit B(hah) of Why I Mistrust WotC's Motives As Well As Their CompetenceTM.

    They do make decent classic-type Psions, but seriously. Not going over LA +0 for this.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2019-05-11 at 06:00 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #946
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Interestingly, in my copy of the XPH, the Blue is listed as +0 in the statblock, and +1 in the Blues as Characters section.
    Same goes in my (offline) copy of the SRD.


    So ... yeah.

    LA +0. And it probably wouldn't be that hard to talk me into calling it a -0.

    Wait. Racial bonus to Move Silently, sure. But racial bonus to Ride?
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  17. - Top - End - #947
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    Wait. Racial bonus to Move Silently, sure. But racial bonus to Ride?
    Same for regular goblins: I assume it's to model "worg riders".

  18. - Top - End - #948
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    A bonus power point is actually quite good at 1st level - it's a 25% to 33% increase for a psion, depending on how high your Int is.

  19. - Top - End - #949
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    A bonus power point is actually quite good at 1st level - it's a 25% to 33% increase for a psion, depending on how high your Int is.
    Sure, but there's at least one +0 LA race that gives you a power point at every level, and we don't see a lot of people talking about how kalashtars should be +1 LA.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  20. - Top - End - #950
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Sure, but there's at least one +0 LA race that gives you a power point at every level, and we don't see a lot of people talking about how kalashtars should be +1 LA.
    True, but there's "good" and then there's "LA +1".
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  21. - Top - End - #951
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    A bonus power point is actually quite good at 1st level - it's a 25% to 33% increase for a psion, depending on how high your Int is.
    Like I cited in my review, three races in the same book get bonus power points, at LA +0. Two of them actually get 2 bonus points, as well as other stuff.

  22. - Top - End - #952
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Like I cited in my review, three races in the same book get bonus power points, at LA +0. Two of them actually get 2 bonus points, as well as other stuff.
    As well as a PLA or two and perhaps a special ability on top of that.
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  23. - Top - End - #953
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Blue LA +0, for sure. I'm just joining the chorus at this point, but I might as well.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Yeah, Whisper Gnome comes to mind for a comparison point for small races...
    Eh, I don't think there's any shame in coming up short (no pun intended) to one of the strongest races in your category. But to a typical race in your category...well...

    Given that other races in the Psionics Handbook get more power points, psi-like abilities, etc without LA, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the Blue should be -0. If we don't end up rating those as positive LA, and we normally don't find basic races LA-worthy, then they're almost strictly better than the blue. Maenads, elans, and xephs all basically trade Small size, a couple of skill bonuses, and +2 Intelligence for a couple other +2's, plus actual racial features.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

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  25. - Top - End - #955
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Eh, I don't think there's any shame in coming up short (no pun intended) to one of the strongest races in your category. But to a typical race in your category...well...
    True - I guess my point with Whisper Gnome is that WotC's LA compass was not at all consistent; which we all know anyway - hence, these threads.

  26. - Top - End - #956
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Given that other races in the Psionics Handbook get more power points, psi-like abilities, etc without LA, I think there's a decent argument to be made that the Blue should be -0. If we don't end up rating those as positive LA, and we normally don't find basic races LA-worthy, then they're almost strictly better than the blue. Maenads, elans, and xephs all basically trade Small size, a couple of skill bonuses, and +2 Intelligence for a couple other +2's, plus actual racial features.
    Your forgetting Darkvision on that list.
    And both Small size and +2 int are really strong on a int based caster.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Honestly I think Blue is a fairly solid +0, at least in it's niche. Maybe not dwarf or whisper gnome good, but a serious optimizer could take it.

    +2 Int, small size, 30' move, darkvision. -2 net stats, but wizards (optimizer choice example) tend to dump Str and Cha anyways. The power point isn't much help on an actual psion, more like a warmind PrC or somesuch. So I don't see the +2 Int and power point synergizing well. Non-melee casters benefit quite a bit from small size, I strongly disagree with -0. Also strongly disagree with +1. It certainly isn't overpowered compared to grey elf/whisper gnome by any means.
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-05-12 at 10:51 PM. Reason: speling is hard. Also noting lord khaine made most of my points right above my post.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    The strength hit plus the small size means terrible things for carrying capacity. Especially if you dump strength.

    With point buy, and dumping strength, you're looking at Str 6 on a size Small, for a light load of 15lb or less.
    That isn't much room to work with.
    A Bag of Holding type 1 is 15lb. A Handy Haversack is 5lb.
    Clothes are likely going to be 2-4lb on their own.


    Blues just aren't very good. I mean ... they're marginally better than a regular goblin, but that's not really much of an accomplishment.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Your forgetting Darkvision on that list.
    And both Small size and +2 int are really strong on a int based caster.
    Maybe I'm just underestimating the benefits of having a some assorted +1's and being able to hide under desks, but I'd still rather have actual race features and the ability to reach the top shelf. (Or the table.)
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able

    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    The strength hit plus the small size means terrible things for carrying capacity. Especially if you dump strength.

    With point buy, and dumping strength, you're looking at Str 6 on a size Small, for a light load of 15lb or less.
    That isn't much room to work with.
    A Bag of Holding type 1 is 15lb. A Handy Haversack is 5lb.
    Clothes are likely going to be 2-4lb on their own.


    Blues just aren't very good. I mean ... they're marginally better than a regular goblin, but that's not really much of an accomplishment.
    Clothes aren't counted for carrying capacity. Small size also reduces the weight of a lot of things.

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