Results 181 to 210 of 1503
-
2019-03-04, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
I think the bad class skills and low base attack push it into -0 territory for me. As has been argued quite thoroughly, you lose too much both roles a rogue can hope to do (skillmonkey and damage). I also feel that there are lots of good skillmonkeys besides the rogue that are much higher in tier (bard and beguiler, of course, but cloistered clerics can be surprisingly solid with the right ACFs, and Unseen Seer builds are great), and a straight comparison to rogue is far too one-sided to get a good rating. If we're comparing the thorn to a t4 straight rogue to come up with +0, we're grasping at straws to pull out a positive LA.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2019-03-04, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Even if we are comparing to straight rogue 7 it comes out behind, -1 bab, worse skill set, less skill points, no trap finding, less sneak attack, no evasion, less versatility/variety in build. The extra ability scores, better will save, and sleep arrow soften the blow but they don't do enough to make it comparable to even a straight rogue 7 which is a bad baseline to begin with.
-
2019-03-04, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2019-03-04, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Ugh, I want the thorn to be +0, but I don't know if I can actually justify it.
It's probably the most playable -0 we've had in ages. Thumbs, a normal size (being really big or really little can be fun, but it also causes problems navigating your environment sometimes), no massive stat penalties, a measurable amount of offense that meshes with class levels, an action-free save-or-lose rider automatically tacked onto regular attacks... but it's damned hard to honestly say that it's on par with 6 class levels.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2019-03-04, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2019-03-05, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
\
Archery is probably in the middle of attack modes. Better than one-handed and thrown, worse than TWF and 2H.
You can stab people with arrows as improvised weapons.
I thought the trade for that was Evasion. That is really good, if a little campaign dependent. The thorns strength boost compensates for that nicely.
If we are comparing it to a R7 then its going to have trap finding.
It does the same damage, can do 3 SoLs in 1 round with the right build. They are a mind affecting fortitude save, so that's a thing
I think straight halfling rogue is a good floor for comparison. Currently my thought is better than it La+0, worse La -0. The same ??
With that said I think a strongheart halfling using boomerang daze is going to be just as good at most levels, but is going to be clearly better
at levels where it gets more attacks, so I'll go with an LA of -0
-
2019-03-05, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
To be honest, as with the Pixie version, the Sleep Arrow ability is a bit poorly defined. How many arrows do you get? Do they spawn from thin air? Does any mundane arrow you pick up automatically gain the sleep ability? Can you hand them off to party members to use?
If you can hand them off to others to use, then the Thorn deserves LA +/-0* IMHO.
[edit] Not sure if it changed in 3.5, but in Savage Species, under the Pixie racial class, it says you need to craft the arrows:
Upon reaching 4th level, a pixie can craft pixie sleep arrows and pixie memory loss arrows as though meeting all of the requisites.
Was any of this touched on during the Pixie discussion?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...1#post22346543
[/edit]Last edited by Thurbane; 2019-03-05 at 03:59 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2019-03-05, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Comparing to t4 rogue I think it is +0. That the closest comparison point. Fey type has advantages (not being humanoid type is an advantage almost always ) as well. The stats make the damage pretty equal and lets you play around with all your scores a bit more so you can easily come out ahead in total skill points. You list is good if not awesome and those arrows can be great. If you compare it to t3 with like swordsage I think its a -0, but I think its fine at tier 4.
-
2019-03-06, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
-
2019-03-06, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Over 20 levels vs. straight rogue it ends up with the same amount of attacks and its unlikely to matter in combat most of the time. You lose some damage but you can just use arrows to take someone out then coup de grace them.
Plus if you have to mix it up in melee and not one turn kill the enemy, with more ac, hp, and the dr will help you more than the extra attack damage. If a round of sneak attack kills the enemy with that one extra attack, it is rarely enough of a threat to have that one more round matter.
-
2019-03-06, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Thorn LA!
-0 LA: 9 votes
+0 LA: 9 votes
...not entirely surprisingly, it appears to be a tie. For now I'll declare this one a special case, and go with +0/-0.
That said, I am not planning to make this a regular voting option, nor will I be assigning it in initial assessments. Only because the community is perfectly divided on an admittedly troublesome creature will +0/-0 be used here.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2019-03-06, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Topiary Guardian
when you have to defend your mansion at 7 but enter a landscaping competition at 8
Anyway: topiary guardians are, as the descriptive text explains, not animate plants, but rather golem-like beings that just happen to use plants as a solid form. The statblock then proceeds to ignore all that and makes them plant-type anyway.
The guardians are surprisingly detached from the animal they mimic: hit dice, ability scores and natural armor bonus are all size-dependent, while movement modes other than land speed are lost.
The guardians also all have fire vulnerability, DR 10/slashing, tremorsense, and the ability to deal nonlethal damage without penalty. Furthermore, they can hold themselves motionless and appear to be a shrub to anyone who doesn't succeed on a DC 30 Spot check.
However, the issue is that Topiary Guardian is typically going to be increasing something's HD to the point where it loses net viability. I guess there's a few niche cases where the template gives a boost, like by applying it to a legendary wolf or something, but those cases are rare and more based on lost RHD than any real benefit from the template itself. In any case, I doubt the resulting creature would qualify for more than -0 LA.
+0 LA for the guardians in rare optimal cases, but if something it's only +0 LA on a handful of creatures it's hardly worthy of being called +0 at all. -0 LA, secure your garden in some other way.Last edited by Inevitability; 2019-03-07 at 03:00 AM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2019-03-06, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
- Location
- Tokyo, New Jersey
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
My first thought when I saw that it had a set amount of HD was to take something super huge (number-wise), yet only medium size-wise and that way it might be useable. Sadly, your ability scores are also a set amount depending on size, so this is just crap.
-0.
-
2019-03-06, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
I actually looked around, and the best I could find were the Legendary Animals that are also medium-sized (ape and wolf). Both would end up with somewhat underwhelming ability scores and 5 bad RHD, though.
The ape would have a 2d6/1d8/1d8 attack routine, which when combined with a 2d8 Rend and DR 10/slashing is kind of respectable, but the two lost BAB suck and the ability scores aren't too impressive by then either.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2019-03-06, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
LA -0. I am going to save my energy for analyzing worthwhile entries. If you could apply the template to something besides an Animal, maybe, but as is there is really nothing of that type that gains much from this application.
-
2019-03-06, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
-0. Neat window dressing but more or less bad otherwise.
-
2019-03-06, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
pretty easy -0...
-
2019-03-06, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Why am I here?
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
I wonder if the designers settled on plant type because the golems are still dependent upon the topiary being healthy and looking good. They probably reasoned that blight or some dehydrating attack would probably hurt these and decided against the construct type.
As for making these a PC, what would the story of a Legendary Ape Topiary Guardian be? Did Francine Patterson and Cleve Backster join forces to see if the combined communication power of gorillas and plants could make a creature that could talk to everything? Then did they get mad scientist bored and weaponize it because why not?
-
2019-03-06, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
-
2019-03-06, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Location
- New Jersey, doh.
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
If int 0/-10 I'm definitely going -0. If the DM is very generous at giving out a real Int score for free (and maybe Cha), a legendary ape or something might eke out +0. Medium size is the only real hope, and even then I think I'd significantly prefer orc warblade.
So yeah, -0.
-
2019-03-06, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
-
2019-03-06, 10:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2017
- Location
- In this general area
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Fun option to generate NPC stat blocks for a combat encounter, hot garbage for PCs. -0 flat out.
If you have to optimize heavily to get it to +0, it's not +0.
-
2019-03-06, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Topiary Guardian: For me the set ability scores (and them being mediocre without awakening shenanigans) plus the absence of any special ability of note throws it instantly in the -0 bin.
Thorn: Looks fun and about on par, 5/7 would play, +0.
-
2019-03-06, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
-0 for the topiary guardians. Even if you dumpster dive splat books for a base creature to exploit, as shown above, the results are still fairly underwhelming.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2019-03-06, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
-
2019-03-06, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
Topiary Guardian is easy enough that even I feel comfortable weighing in. -0.
-
2019-03-07, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- The Old West
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
When a creature exists purely for the word play. This is definitely something fun to surprise players with, but hardly a match for any equally leveled half-elf. -0
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
-
2019-03-07, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
So the only base creature stats that really matter are attacks and land speed?
-
2019-03-07, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
I'm not sure what the difference is. Maybe it's a matter of power source, e.g. fey spirits vs. elemental spirits?
But yeah, they're not that great as PCs. They're also not that great as lawn-guards; deterrence is usually more effective than trampling, and you're not going to deter any intruders with some neat topiary. To quote a certain book reviewer, HEDGES ARE NOT SCARY!
-
2019-03-07, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Location
- Middle of nowhere USA.
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread: Making monster PCs VI-able
For what it's worth, plants count as objects for spells so one could just Animate Objects some hedges and get better guarduan shrubberies than these.