If an owl gets darkvision does its spot check get worse?

[Particle_Man]

Imagine an owl gets darkvision 60’, say by being the familiar companion of an arcane hierophant (and thus a magical beast with the traits of same). If a mouse is within 60’ of the owl and within shadowy illumination (and trying to hide behind some cheese) does the owl still get the racial +8 bonus to spot the mouse? Or does darkvision effectively negate the shadowy illumination and hence the owl’s +8 spot bonus?

[maruahm]

The bit for the owl's racial Spot bonus is:

They have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination.

And for the darkvision special ability:

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

Seems like the owl's racial bonus is contingent only on an area having shadowy illumination. The area being a region of physical space, and not something relating to the owl's perception.

Checking the darkvision ability description supports this, since it doesn't claim that it changes the illumination-level in an area.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm not touching it by RAW, but RAI i'd say darkvision and normal vision can be considerated as different, overlapping senses . so in any situation the owl uses the best of the two.

Also do note that bonuses to spot in poor illumination are generally intended to compensate penalties. With the exception of races sensitive to light, everyone else sees better in good light. An owl bonus to spot in darkness does not mean that the owl sees better without light, only that it is better at overcoming the penalties associated with low light

[Jeraa]

I'm not touching it by RAW, but RAI i'd say darkvision and normal vision can be considerated as different, overlapping senses . so in any situation the owl uses the best of the two.

Also do note that bonuses to spot in poor illumination are generally intended to compensate penalties. With the exception of races sensitive to light, everyone else sees better in good light. An owl bonus to spot in darkness does not mean that the owl sees better without light, only that it is better at overcoming the penalties associated with low light

What penalties are there to offset? I'm not seeing a Spot penalty for darkness anywhere in the Player's Handbook. (With the exception of total darkness giving a penalty on Search checks.)

[magic9mushroom]

What penalties are there to offset? I'm not seeing a Spot penalty for darkness anywhere in the Player's Handbook. (With the exception of total darkness giving a penalty on Search checks.)

There's not a Spot penalty for shadowy, but since Hide checks auto-fail in bright light (absent some other means of cover or concealment, or Hide in Plain Sight), there doesn't have to be. There probably should be a Hide bonus for having both cover and concealment, but eh.

In this particular case, the moment the mouse steps out from behind the cheese the darkvision-owl auto-spots it with no check necessary. I'm not 100% sure the owl's +8 racial would apply in the first place, since the mouse isn't using the shadowy illumination to hide (it's using the cheese), but if you did apply it in that case it'd apply to the darkvision-owl too.

(Also, if the cheese is significantly bigger than the mouse it has total cover and the owl's Spot auto-fails.)

[King of Nowhere]

What penalties are there to offset? I'm not seeing a Spot penalty for darkness anywhere in the Player's Handbook. (With the exception of total darkness giving a penalty on Search checks.)

And that's exactly the reason i don't want to touch the RAW of it.

[Particle_Man]

Seems like the owl's racial bonus is contingent only on an area having shadowy illumination. The area being a region of physical space, and not something relating to the owl's perception.

Checking the darkvision ability description supports this, since it doesn't claim that it changes the illumination-level in an area.

The weird thing is that the owl also has low-light vision and in that description shadowy illumination does seem at least somewhat related to the viewer.

I am inclined to think that once darkvision kicks in there are no shadows or darkness to see with it so the owl loses the +8 bonus until 61’ away.