One Piece VI: Wano Piece

[Kato]

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It does when you think about it. Queen is cut off from the Den-Den network, so he cant dial Kaido for instructions.
And Big Mom is to important. He dont know what killing her would do.
Handing her back would likely mean peace with her crew. Killing her would certainly mean all out war.

Besides that there is Kaido himself, who have known BM for a long time.
Killing her could risk making Kaido angry.

But... but... but murder is always the right answer, isn't it?

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I don't have a problem with destroying things from the inside, but how does that delay an explosion?

[ben-zayb]

But... but... but murder is always the right answer, isn't it?

Queen drowning BM wouldn't be the first time that a Beast Pirate commander did something that risked killing her, and even Queen thought the Queen Mama Chanter has already been sunk.

I guess King could risk making Kaido angry, but not Queen. The only explanation otherwise would be that King knew BM can't die by drowning, for some reason.

[Devonix]

Spoiler: Let sleeping dogs lie.

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Just killing a sleeping opponent isn't what Onepiece is about. And any time you think you'll have someone do it, they're going to fail. That's just not the type of series this is.

[lord_khaine]

But... but... but murder is always the right answer, isn't it?

Clearly not in Kaido's crew?
He seems to favor recruiting as we saw with Luffy.

Queen drowning BM wouldn't be the first time that a Beast Pirate commander did something that risked killing her, and even Queen thought the Queen Mama Chanter has already been sunk.

I guess King could risk making Kaido angry, but not Queen. The only explanation otherwise would be that King knew BM can't die by drowning, for some reason.

I think there is a pretty gigantic difference between just knocking BM off a waterfall with her ship and crew, and then actively murdering her in cold blood..

[deuterio12]

I think there is a pretty gigantic difference between just knocking BM off a waterfall with her ship and crew, and then actively murdering her in cold blood..

Injecting somebody with 100x a dose of tranquilizer meant to calm a beast already is attempted murder. Overdoses are not a light matter.

[lord_khaine]

Injecting somebody with 100x a dose of tranquilizer meant to calm a beast already is attempted murder. Overdoses are not a light matter.

Yes when your injecting someone normal.
I think taking a brontosaur to the skull shows BG isnt in the same solar system as normal.
This dose is likely the bare minimum to keep her sedated.

[Traab]

Yes when your injecting someone normal.
I think taking a brontosaur to the skull shows BG isnt in the same solar system as normal.
This dose is likely the bare minimum to keep her sedated.

Also this is entertainment land, where sedative doses just control how fast you fall asleep. Its a standard trope in tv, movies, cartoons, comics, books, and anime. Yes in reality tranq darts would be a TERRIBLE idea as a weapon because of how they actually work and the dangers involved in dosing random people with a one size fits all dart attack, but in entertainment land, there is no overdose, your options are "little to no effect" "Puts them under relatively fast" "instant knockout" Just watch xmen 2 for proof. When strikers team attacked the x mansion, they were darting everyone from little kids to full grown adults with no reason to believe they were somehow adjusting dosages.

[Devonix]

Yes Tranq's in fiction are just " Sleep Juice " The most nonlethal thing you can use in a setting.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, this was a fun chapter. I'm not totally sure how exactly ryou works but then again, I don't know how haki works, so...

Yeah, it was pretty fun!

Basically the attack destroyed the insides before the outside, which delayed the explosion enough to save her. It doesn't make perfect sense.

[Devonix]

Yeah, it was pretty fun!

Basically the attack destroyed the insides before the outside, which delayed the explosion enough to save her. It doesn't make perfect sense.

That's not how it seemed to me. It looked like it just allowed him to remove it faster not that it delayed the explosion any.

[deuterio12]

Yes when your injecting someone normal.
I think taking a brontosaur to the skull shows BG isnt in the same solar system as normal.
This dose is likely the bare minimum to keep her sedated.

So is Queen actually Dr.House in disguise and can figure out with just a look the minimum dosage to keep somebody sedated?

Also this is entertainment land, where sedative doses just control how fast you fall asleep. Its a standard trope in tv, movies, cartoons, comics, books, and anime. Yes in reality tranq darts would be a TERRIBLE idea as a weapon because of how they actually work and the dangers involved in dosing random people with a one size fits all dart attack, but in entertainment land, there is no overdose, your options are "little to no effect" "Puts them under relatively fast" "instant knockout" Just watch xmen 2 for proof. When strikers team attacked the x mansion, they were darting everyone from little kids to full grown adults with no reason to believe they were somehow adjusting dosages.

Neither any reason to believe they were that worried about saving the lives of the filthy mutants that were considered a blight upon humanity. If they lose their powers and survive, great, but if they died from overdose the soldiers wouldn't shed much if any tears either.

Yes Tranq's in fiction are just " Sleep Juice " The most nonlethal thing you can use in a setting.

And in fiction you can just punch people to sleep safely and with no secondary effects.

Actually Queen's method of putting big momma to sleep was precisely "apply as much blunt force trauma possible to her skull as possible", so clearly unarmed combat is also a super-safe sedation method.

This is, did we ever see anybody die of blunt force trauma in One Piece yet? Characters get punched through walls all the time and don't even crack their bones. Luffy was used as a nail by big momma and that didn't even qualify as a warm-up since he ends the chapter doing stretches!

So why bother using tranqs when you can just have a bunch of mooks with large hammers using big momma's head as a drum to keep her in dream land?

[Devonix]

So why bother using tranqs when you can just have a bunch of mooks with large hammers using big momma's head as a drum to keep her in dream land?

Probably because the hit had nothing to do with her falling asleep. The art around it pointed to her just falling asleep mid fight, the same way Luffy, Garp, and a few others have done. Hence no damage on her, and the big anime sleep snot bubble.

A few chapters earlier Big Mom was commenting on how sleepy she was, and that she wanted to go lie down for a nap. This is just that taking effect.

[Kato]

Up to the time skip we've seen hardly anybody die at all. I guess the number did go up since then..
But no, blunt force seems not very lethal to these people, even if they are not made of rubber.

[ben-zayb]

Up to the time skip we've seen hardly anybody die at all. I guess the number did go up since then..
But no, blunt force seems not very lethal to these people, even if they are not made of rubber.

Early series Usopp took a few-ton hit to the head and survived. Perona in her normal body took a 10-ton hit to the head and survived. Even the unfit-looking Charloss took Luffy's punch and Mjosgard's macefacesmash like a champ.

At this point, perv-induced blood loss presented a greater risk of death than blunt trauma.

[Traab]

Too be fair, didnt charloss wind up in the hospital for an unknown length of time looking like his face was a jigsaw puzzle made of purple and black balloons? Same for bellamy. Blunt force trauma may not have been lethal, but it caused long lasting and visible damage when it was dramatic enough. Which brings us to the point. Reality doesnt exist in entertainment land. Everything works according to the laws of cool, drama, and narrative need. It may march alongside reality for significant portions of its travels, but dont expect it to be identical. Whether its tranqs, blunt force trauma, the sheer volume of blood in the human body, or the psi at which it is contained, very little truly matches reality forever.

[ellenate]

Up to the time skip we've seen hardly anybody die at all. I guess the number did go up since then..
But no, blunt force seems not very lethal to these people, even if they are not made of rubber.

I don't think oda has it in him to kill off any of his characters. It was somewhat distracting in the beginning for me but i've grown use to it.

[lord_khaine]

Cough*Ace*Cough

[Razade]

I don't think oda has it in him to kill off any of his characters. It was somewhat distracting in the beginning for me but i've grown use to it.

Whitebeard. Ace. Vergo. Absalom. Pedro. Those are just people killed without being in a flashback. Oda kills tons of people in flashbacks.

[ellenate]

Cough*Ace*Cough

Ace.

Ace = Sabo

Whitebeard.

He was hooked up to medical equipment when he was introduced...

Vergo. Absalom. Pedro.

who? /s

Oda kills tons of people in flashbacks.

Has any character ever been introduced through a flashback and not die in said flashback? (I'm not being rhetorical here. I'm looking back and i think they've all died. lol)



Yes, yes- Oda can kill a character but they always feel like easy marks.

[Devonix]

Oda has a history of Fakeout deaths. Going back to Pell. It's called the Will of P for a reason. One piece is a very low lethality story unless you're in a flashback.

[LaZodiac]

There's a scene in the Marineford arc where Cobby literally collapses to his knees overwrought by feeling the deaths of people in the fighting. Marineford is where the "no one dies except in a flashback" rule is completely removed, and if you look closely each arc has been RATHER fatal to some people.

Like ****ing a few weeks ago someone was literally executed.

[Razade]

Ace = Sabo

I don't even know what you're getting at to respond to this. If it's that Sabo somehow takes away from the impact of Ace's death because...they have the same powers and have a similar relationship to Luffy then...you're wrong. I don't even need to back that up with anything. You just are.

He was hooked up to medical equipment when he was introduced...

So that's what it sounds like when you move a goal post. Good to know.

who? /s

Did they, or did they not, die. Did you, or did you not, say that Oda doesn't have it in him to kill his characters? I think you did. You can change your mind and clarify what you meant but I was addressing what you said.

Oda has a history of Fakeout deaths. Going back to Pell. It's called the Will of P for a reason. One piece is a very low lethality story unless you're in a flashback.

Yeah...Oda's on record saying that he wanted to keep Pell dead. They felt that, and this is serious, the events of 9/11 made killing him off "in bad taste" so he came back. It had nothing to do with a fake out. I've been looking for the exact quote but the internet isn't spitting it up. It was mentioned in some interview years back closer to when Alabasta was thrown up by 4kids onto the U.S channels.

[Devonix]

There's a scene in the Marineford arc where Cobby literally collapses to his knees overwrought by feeling the deaths of people in the fighting. Marineford is where the "no one dies except in a flashback" rule is completely removed, and if you look closely each arc has been RATHER fatal to some people.

Like ****ing a few weeks ago someone was literally executed.

The first nonflashback death in the series didn't happen until Marineford, Or Thriller bark if you count Lola's Zombie.

As for Marineford we have two named character deaths. And then we don't get another named death till Virgo and Monet.

Next is Pedro in big mom arc, and then in Wano we have the death that just happened.

That's that's over the course of over 900 chapters 6 deaths. Oda doesn't like killing off characters and its something I enjoy about the series.

[Razade]

The first nonflashback death in the series didn't happen until Marineford, Or Thriller bark if you count Lola's Zombie.

Gin wants a word with you. Sure, he didn't die on screen but he breathed in the MH5 gas and said he was going to die. So ya know. That has to count for something.



It's also really weird to see this even being discussed when Shonen in general is known for a low body count. It's not part of the demographic and the fact Oda does it to drive the plot makes it infinitely more interesting than anything else that shares its stage. Bleach didn't kill even a single important character. Naruto threw Neiji away at the end and famously "killed" the whole village only to revive them immediately after. Dragon Ball is famous for its revolving door afterlife. I can't think of any Shonen off the top of my head that bothers to kill off important characters.

[Rynjin]

It's also really weird to see this even being discussed when Shonen in general is known for a low body count. It's not part of the demographic and the fact Oda does it to drive the plot makes it infinitely more interesting than anything else that shares its stage. Bleach didn't kill even a single important character. Naruto threw Neiji away at the end and famously "killed" the whole village only to revive them immediately after. Dragon Ball is famous for its revolving door afterlife. I can't think of any Shonen off the top of my head that bothers to kill off important characters.

Hunter x Hunter does it, though it's easy to forget that's a Shonen. Same with JoJo.

Also I think you're glossing over the huge amount of important, named character deaths in Naruto. it's one of the more kill happy of the more standard Shonen series. Neji dies, as you mention. The Third Hokage, Jiraiya, Chiyo, Konan, Neji, and Itachi just for heroic characters, which is an insane kill count for characters of that caliber in any media.

The number climbs even higher for named villains, which absolutely DO count if we're talking Shonen kill counts, since a lot of Shonen have the villains be defeated, but survive rather than kill them off.

[Razade]

Ok, I'll grant you the Third and Jiriya. I totally forgot about those. Itachi was introduced to die so that's not really a surprise. We both forgot Asuma...which is totally my bad because that was a death that was actually important to people not named on the front of the series.

So Naruto gets a pass.

[Kato]

I thought Oda only killing people in flashbacks (backstories) until Marineford was one of the best known parts about OP (?) Without discussing his reasoning, the new world is a much more lethal place, with many arcs since having a higher body count, implicitly or directly.

I can't speak too much on other Shonen.. Toriyama avoids it (in)famously with his titular MacGuffins, which makes meaningful deaths hard to do..
Kishimoto is bloodthirsty from the beginning, though somewhat more reluctant with important people. But Zabusa and Haku die in the first major arc, Gaara kills many unnamed enemies in the Chunin exams, probably a lot of people, including Sarutobi, die in the end of the arc..
Fairy Tail is much tamer, at least about named characters, but we have to assume that hundreds die as collateral damage that's never shown when Natsu torches whole cities.
7DS...I honestly have a hard time remembering deaths not in flashbacks. Or not villains. I guess there might be some collateral but nobody important (?)

[LaZodiac]

God we're all monsters I just remembered we forgot about Merry dying in Skypeia.

[Kato]

God we're all monsters I just remembered we forgot about Merry dying in Skypeia.

... I mean, you're almost right. She died at Enie's Lobby, but yes.

[ben-zayb]

People die a lot in One Piece. You got Lucky Roo sucker-shooting a mountain bandit mook in the head and Higuma being devoured by the Lord of the Coast in the very first chapter. Just because most of Oda's written deaths are for unnamed mooks/redshirts/civilians doesn't make them any less worth considering.

Speaking of Naruto, Gekko Hayate also died, who IIRC is the first non-flashback, non-villain, named character death in Naruto. He has quite the unique aesthetic, even quite considered competent in-series, but everyone apparently forgot about my boy.

Yeah...Oda's on record saying that he wanted to keep Pell dead. They felt that, and this is serious, the events of 9/11 made killing him off "in bad taste" so he came back. It had nothing to do with a fake out. I've been looking for the exact quote but the internet isn't spitting it up. It was mentioned in some interview years back closer to when Alabasta was thrown up by 4kids onto the U.S channels.

I've always treated that defense as the speculation that it is, absent of any actual proof.