One Piece VI: Wano Piece

[ben-zayb]

Crocodile being Kaido's son sounds less "major theory" and more general speculation. "Crocodile has a secret that Ivankov knows." That's it?

If we're going for a Baroque Works member, I'd put more money on Bon Kurei. At least, that would explain why a powerful DF from Wano got handed over to someone who's nowhere close in power to a Yonkou crew member—it's sheer nepotism. Similarly, even speculation of Bartolomeo being Kaido's son over Croco-boy makes more logical sense.


Also, not sure where people getting the idea that "Joy Boy is actually born as <insert existing character here>". Can't Joy Boy just be... some guy named Joy Boy? I mean Oda and Kishimoto are contemporaries, but does One Piece really have to go the Naruto route?

[Razade]

Crocodile being Kaido's son sounds less "major theory" and more general speculation. "Crocodile has a secret that Ivankov knows." That's it?

The shoes on the last panel of Chapter 977 are the same kind that Crocodile wears. Apparently. I don't find that compelling really, either as an argument or the person wearing those shoes. I assumed it wasn't his son with the Tobi, but that being another member of that group.

If we're going for a Baroque Works member, I'd put more money on Bon Kurei. At least, that would explain why a powerful DF from Wano got handed over to someone who's nowhere close in power to a Yonkou crew member—it's sheer nepotism. Similarly, even speculation of Bartolomeo being Kaido's son over Croco-boy makes more logical sense.

Except that Devil Fruits can re-appear anywhere on the planet. It appears in the nearest fruit of its type. That could have been on Wano or it could have been another island and it got to Bon Clay. It being on Wano, and Kaido killing the former user, has nothing to do with how Bon Clay got it. That's just not how Devil Fruits work. I would laugh if Bartolomeo was his son, but I feel you're offering that more because of the Barrier Barrier fruit and again, that's not how Devil Fruits work.

Also, not sure where people getting the idea that "Joy Boy is actually born as <insert existing character here>". Can't Joy Boy just be... some guy named Joy Boy? I mean Oda and Kishimoto are contemporaries, but does One Piece really have to go the Naruto route?

I've seen this criticism levied before, that Luffy being Joy Boy makes him a "child of Prophecy". It sort of does but nowhere near the level that Naruto or other characters are made out to be. There is already a prophecy in the series about Luffy directly, him carrying on the will of Joy Boy in opening Wano or at least taking that role is nowhere near "You are the child of destiny" so many other Shonen series throws at people.

[PraetorDragoon]

From what I can tell Kaido's son isn't part of the Tobi Roppo. He calls out for him, and demands why he isn't here, it is a party. One of his underlings says that they are going to look for him. Then the Tobi arrive and Kaido lets them in to introduce them to Orochi. If his son were with them he would have referenced that.

[Razade]

From what I can tell Kaido's son isn't part of the Tobi Roppo. He calls out for him, and demands why he isn't here, it is a party. One of his underlings says that they are going to look for him. Then the Tobi arrive and Kaido lets them in to introduce them to Orochi. If his son were with them he would have referenced that.

That was my thinking as well. They could have been looking around Onigamshima though. They don't say where they're going to look. So it's up in the air for two weeks.

[Kantaki]

Spoiler

Show

... oh my god that probably is it. Kaido does have very strong single drunk dad energy... this would explain it. It'd explain his suicidal nature and the fact that he's surrounded himself with animals.

If this is true I like the contrast between Mom's despair at losing her family made her create an endless army of children, and Kaido's despair at losing his made him pull in on himself and surround himself with animal people.

Kaido is a crazy cat lady?
Headcanon accepted.

[LaZodiac]

The possibility that Bon Clay could show up to be our heroes accidental traitor that they know from before the story began (which feels like something that'd happen in a Kabuki play that Wano is acting as) had not occurred to me and is making me giddy with excitement. Whatever happens happens, but I'd love it if he showed up again.

[Razade]

The traitor has already been revealed though. Bon Clay is far too busy running New Kama Island to do anything in Wano. They're keeping his return for the final fleet behind the Straw Hats.

[LaZodiac]

The traitor has already been revealed though. Bon Clay is far too busy running New Kama Island to do anything in Wano. They're keeping his return for the final fleet behind the Straw Hats.

I mean a traitor for the good guys, not the bad guys. And fair, I forgot that was what he was doing.

[PraetorDragoon]

We already had Denjiro as traitor in Orochi's circle.

The possibility that Bon Clay could show up to be our heroes accidental traitor that they know from before the story began (which feels like something that'd happen in a Kabuki play that Wano is acting as) had not occurred to me and is making me giddy with excitement. Whatever happens happens, but I'd love it if he showed up again.

What do you mean by accidental traitor?

EDIT: Dumb speculation

Spoiler

Show

You know, assuming Kaido's son is dead, I am wondering if Kaido will see Momosuke as his son, being able to transform into a dragon and like that.

[LaZodiac]

We already had Denjiro as traitor in Orochi's circle.



What do you mean by accidental traitor?

EDIT: Dumb speculation

Spoiler

Show

You know, assuming Kaido's son is dead, I am wondering if Kaido will see Momosuke as his son, being able to transform into a dragon and like that.

Right, I forgot about that.

And I mean like... sometimes you don't know such and such person is connected to the enemy, and when you finally meet it's like "oh you worked for them this whole time?" and they're like "yeah but I'm going to traitor them now that I realize you're on my side" or something. It's complicated.

That'd be an interesting twist with things.

[ben-zayb]

I'm not sure if I just have forgotten about it, but I do not recall Oda or his characters explicitly stating that DF transfers to a specific kind of fruit. It was shown that the axolotl DF manifested from what looks like an apple upon Smiley's death, but the final appearance is still different. If a devil fruit can change a normal fruit's appearance into what the former is supposed to like, barring any explicit canon explanation I am not ruling out the possibility that it can just transfer to any nearby fruit at all. I can't even recall any explicit canon that a DF can reappear anywhere on the planet after its user die.

I would've preferred Daifuku be Kaido's son just to get that old speculation about the Charlotte triplets over with, despite the ages just not matching up right. Maybe Kaido was a Rocks Pirates apprentice in his mid 20s.

[PraetorDragoon]

Right, I forgot about that.

And I mean like... sometimes you don't know such and such person is connected to the enemy, and when you finally meet it's like "oh you worked for them this whole time?" and they're like "yeah but I'm going to traitor them now that I realize you're on my side" or something. It's complicated.

That'd be an interesting twist with things.

Ah, that could be interesting. Read such twists before, they are quite fun.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

Spoiler

Show

Kin outfits everyone with some barbarian cloths to beldn in during the assault, and Kaido's forces begin to charge forward... and we get to meet the true members of the Animal Kingdom Pirates. I'm like, 500% sure Black Maria is a mermaid, and that they're all Zoans.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm.. my bet is that everyone but 1 is a Zoan :D

Else, we meet the quirky miniboss squad.
Well, with Luffy's entire crew, + the Samurai + rival pirates you need a lot of named opponents.

[Traab]

Hey, just curious, I wondered, does anyone know when the first time is the straw hat pirates get recognized before they started to do something big? Like, luffy walks into town and you hear "Omg its the straw hat pirates! What are those guys doing here?!" The reason I ask is, I just watched the walk to frankys house where the gang beat ussop most of the way to death and robbed him and so luffy zoro sanji and chopper basically walked right to the door ready to level the place and one of the gang went "Oh no! Its the straw hats!" or something to that effect. Im not sure of the context as I havent watched the full arc in order so im not sure how they were recognized (but ussop wasnt) or if they were recognized based on reputation or if they had already done something big by that point to create a stir. Basically, when did their reputation start to precede them is probably the best way to phrase it. Also, im a bit shocked that nobody has been posting the updates on here.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm.. good question. Well let me see.
Initially they got a bit of fame after taking down Arlong. That gave Luffy a substantial bounty.
And i only think there was the Alabasta arc between that and Water 7?

[Razade]

Hey, just curious, I wondered, does anyone know when the first time is the straw hat pirates get recognized before they started to do something big? Like, luffy walks into town and you hear "Omg its the straw hat pirates! What are those guys doing here?!" The reason I ask is, I just watched the walk to frankys house where the gang beat ussop most of the way to death and robbed him and so luffy zoro sanji and chopper basically walked right to the door ready to level the place and one of the gang went "Oh no! Its the straw hats!" or something to that effect. Im not sure of the context as I havent watched the full arc in order so im not sure how they were recognized (but ussop wasnt) or if they were recognized based on reputation or if they had already done something big by that point to create a stir. Basically, when did their reputation start to precede them is probably the best way to phrase it. Also, im a bit shocked that nobody has been posting the updates on here.

It's really depending on how big you're putting that net. If it's just Luffy, it's after Arlong Park. People recognize him but they're not scared of him until the Jaya arc where Bellamy bullies the team only to find out their bounty. Then people get terrified. If it's the Straw Hat's as a crew? It isn't until we get introduced to the Supernova that we get anything approaching that. But that's still mostly Luffy and Zoro. There's mention of the crew as a whole but for the most part they go unaccredited for most of the insane crap we see them do.

It's not until after The War at Marineford that the Strawhats as a crew are taken to be as dangerous as they are. Basically the name of the Straw Hats doesn't become one of "oh crap it's the" level until after the timeskip. So quite a ways into the series but not as deep as you'd think. It makes sense too since up until the War at Marineford the World Government is suppressing a ton of stuff that the Straw Hats accomplished. Luffy alone is given credit for defeating Arlong's pirates when it was absolutely a crew level event. The crew took down not one but two of the Warlords and was given credit for neither of them. Not to mention the liberation of Alabasta that came along with the first Warlord defeat. Those alone should have upped the crew's bounty across the board.

The attack on Enis Lobby changed a lot of that. They openly declared war on the Government as a crew and their actions couldn't be ignored. They defeated CP9 but they were still fairly up and coming. Not to mention there was a little more than a two year gap between them doing that and anything as a crew that the wider world saw. No one knew about Thriller Bark and the next time we see Luffy on the world's stage he's alone. Breaking out of Impel Down sorta put Luffy on the map in the respect that the World Government couldn't just keep pushing him into the shadows. The things he did at and post-the War at Marineford is what cemented that though. Too many people saw Luffy, across the world no less. Sengoku even acknowledges it later after he retires. Outright acknowledges how dangerous Luffy is and the World Government's own complicity in provoking him.

I'd argue though that the...I hate to call it a trope..but the gag of "Oh crap it's the Straw Hats!!" has only, and remains only, as a post-revelation and very rarely one used actual serious events. That keeps them as underdogs which is a classic concept of Shonen.

[Traab]

It's really depending on how big you're putting that net. If it's just Luffy, it's after Arlong Park. People recognize him but they're not scared of him until the Jaya arc where Bellamy bullies the team only to find out their bounty. Then people get terrified. If it's the Straw Hat's as a crew? It isn't until we get introduced to the Supernova that we get anything approaching that. But that's still mostly Luffy and Zoro. There's mention of the crew as a whole but for the most part they go unaccredited for most of the insane crap we see them do.

It's not until after The War at Marineford that the Strawhats as a crew are taken to be as dangerous as they are. Basically the name of the Straw Hats doesn't become one of "oh crap it's the" level until after the timeskip. So quite a ways into the series but not as deep as you'd think. It makes sense too since up until the War at Marineford the World Government is suppressing a ton of stuff that the Straw Hats accomplished. Luffy alone is given credit for defeating Arlong's pirates when it was absolutely a crew level event. The crew took down not one but two of the Warlords and was given credit for neither of them. Not to mention the liberation of Alabasta that came along with the first Warlord defeat. Those alone should have upped the crew's bounty across the board.

The attack on Enis Lobby changed a lot of that. They openly declared war on the Government as a crew and their actions couldn't be ignored. They defeated CP9 but they were still fairly up and coming. Not to mention there was a little more than a two year gap between them doing that and anything as a crew that the wider world saw. No one knew about Thriller Bark and the next time we see Luffy on the world's stage he's alone. Breaking out of Impel Down sorta put Luffy on the map in the respect that the World Government couldn't just keep pushing him into the shadows. The things he did at and post-the War at Marineford is what cemented that though. Too many people saw Luffy, across the world no less. Sengoku even acknowledges it later after he retires. Outright acknowledges how dangerous Luffy is and the World Government's own complicity in provoking him.

I'd argue though that the...I hate to call it a trope..but the gag of "Oh crap it's the Straw Hats!!" has only, and remains only, as a post-revelation and very rarely one used actual serious events. That keeps them as underdogs which is a classic concept of Shonen.

What I was mainly looking for was when did their reputation start to precede them? Meaning they pull into port and the people there are going "OMG! Its them!" I remember the post time skip where the fake straw hats were using their rep so by then it was obvious they were generally known and feared/respected but I wasnt sure when it started to happen like, obviously after arlong they are going to be revered there, possibly across the east blue if word got out, but they werent really known in alabasta until they saved the day either, right? Im not sure what took place in water 7 so i dont know if the franky gang recognized them from their wanted posters and reputation, or if they had met earlier on. I would imagine the enis lobby arc would be a big promotion to them becoming more well known outside of places they have already been.

As for marineford, yeah, that was a big deal. By himself he wasnt really all THAT impressive combat wise, I mean, everyone above the rank of grunt was beating him senseless. However, whitebeard publicly acknowledging him, his crew backing him up, the fact that he was the one to make it to ace and set him free? Yeah that was huge news. Even if in the end the mission was a failure, the things this rookie pulled off? And of course the knowledge of his dad, and his use of conquerors haki probably really pushed him over the edge.

[Razade]

What I was mainly looking for was when did their reputation start to precede them? Meaning they pull into port and the people there are going "OMG! Its them!" I remember the post time skip where the fake straw hats were using their rep so by then it was obvious they were generally known and feared/respected but I wasnt sure when it started to happen like, obviously after arlong they are going to be revered there, possibly across the east blue if word got out, but they werent really known in alabasta until they saved the day either, right? Im not sure what took place in water 7 so i dont know if the franky gang recognized them from their wanted posters and reputation, or if they had met earlier on. I would imagine the enis lobby arc would be a big promotion to them becoming more well known outside of places they have already been.

It's never happened in the series. There hasn't been an instance where they Strawhat Pirates have been recognized as a group by any island. The Fake Strawhats weren't even really, they were flaunting their bounties and that's pretty much all they had going. People didn't know about Luffy or his crew even after Enis Lobby. The only reason Moria knew was based on their bounties. Not on the knowledge of their crew or as a crew.

As for marineford, yeah, that was a big deal. By himself he wasnt really all THAT impressive combat wise, I mean, everyone above the rank of grunt was beating him senseless. However, whitebeard publicly acknowledging him, his crew backing him up, the fact that he was the one to make it to ace and set him free? Yeah that was huge news. Even if in the end the mission was a failure, the things this rookie pulled off? And of course the knowledge of his dad, and his use of conquerors haki probably really pushed him over the edge.

Luffy took on the three Admirals, Mihawk, a ton of elite Marines and Garp himself during the War at Marineford. He was absolutely impressive even on a field of other impressive fights. Not to mention this was after he almost died at Impel Down and also broke out of Impel Down. The mission to save Ace might have failed but Luffy did free him. He stopped the execution, he rallied the Whitebeard Pirates behind him and he survived. It wasn't anything to do with his father or his haki. It was all the other insane stuff he'd done up to that point finally catching up because of all the other insane stuff he'd done at Marineford in the moment.

[lord_khaine]

Luffy took on the three Admirals, Mihawk, a ton of elite Marines and Garp himself during the War at Marineford. He was absolutely impressive even on a field of other impressive fights.

I think its misrepresentating what took place to say that Luffy took them on.
Yes he took on a aging Garb who were clearly could not make himself raise a fist against his own grandson.

And he just barely survived, with a lot of help, encountering Lava Guy and Mihawk (sorry horrible at names).

[Traab]

I think its misrepresentating what took place to say that Luffy took them on.
Yes he took on a aging Garb who were clearly could not make himself raise a fist against his own grandson.

And he just barely survived, with a lot of help, encountering Lava Guy and Mihawk (sorry horrible at names).

Yeah he took them on in the same way every background character caught up in a random explosion took them on. He got curbstomped by everyone above the rank of mook. He had all of two combat victories, the giant vice admiral, and his punch on garp. He spent the rest of his time being slaughtered in combat by anyone with a name. Though I will quibble with the ageing comment as garp demonstrated he clearly could punch out whitebeards commanders at will when he decked marco right in his flaming face. He just couldnt bring himself to stop luffy which only sengoku seemed to notice. I will say "Not instantly dying" is a bit of a badge of honor when facing people like the admirals and mihawk though, but its not the sort of thing that really gets you much clout in the world when its obvious they are barely even putting an effort into it when they stomp a mudhole in you and walk it dry. His crowning moment was clearly making it to the platform and freeing ace while the freaking fleet admiral was standing right the frig there. Though that reminds me, is Mr Three on any major lists considering he made the key to the cuffs, and was able to infiltrate his way to the platform as a guard? Or did he manage to mostly escape notice?

[lord_khaine]

Though I will quibble with the ageing comment as garp demonstrated he clearly could punch out whitebeards commanders at will when he decked marco right in his flaming face.

It does not matter how fit Garb actually are, when the feat of punching him can be dismissed by him being a old man "clearly" past his prime.
Remember we are talking about public perception. Not facts

Though that reminds me, is Mr Three on any major lists considering he made the key to the cuffs, and was able to infiltrate his way to the platform as a guard? Or did he manage to mostly escape notice?

Well for a start he got the blanket protecting of a Warlord's crew when serving under buggy.

Else new chapter.

Spoiler

Show

It was kinda a hilarious repeat as the Big Mom Pirates were knocked down the waterfall yet again

[ben-zayb]

Luffy took on the three Admirals, Mihawk, a ton of elite Marines and Garp himself during the War at Marineford. He was absolutely impressive even on a field of other impressive fights. Not to mention this was after he almost died at Impel Down and also broke out of Impel Down. The mission to save Ace might have failed but Luffy did free him. He stopped the execution, he rallied the Whitebeard Pirates behind him and he survived. It wasn't anything to do with his father or his haki. It was all the other insane stuff he'd done up to that point finally catching up because of all the other insane stuff he'd done at Marineford in the moment.

Calm down, Big News Morgans. Next you'll say he's the 5th emperor of the sea.

Spoiler: New Chapter

Show

I mean, Luffy's up against 2 emperors so he's gonna need as much strong allies as he can get. Marco is as good as it gets from the WB crew. He can also heal allies, which is always a plus.

Bird (or birdlike) DF users casually punk Big Mom Pirates, it looks like. First, you got Morgans, then King, and now it's Marco. They're lucky Pell is busy with whatever the heck is going on in Alabasta.

I'm glad to see Apoo isn't down and out yet. Supernovas should show why their group is being considered as having a PK candidate.

[PraetorDragoon]

Spoiler: Chapter 981

Show

Queen is not amused.

And that waterfall spot is easy to defend by flying devil fruit users, isn't it? I do feel a bit sorry for the Big Mom crew here.

[Traab]

So are the luffy crew doing anything impressive right now? Feel free to spoiler it if you like. Im just really curious to see/hear what new threshold luffy and crew will manage to reach here.

[ben-zayb]

So are the luffy crew doing anything impressive right now? Feel free to spoiler it if you like. Im just really curious to see/hear what new threshold luffy and crew will manage to reach here.

Do you mean in terms of feats of power?

Spoiler

Show

Luffy's most powerful Gear 4 attacks against Doflamingo and Cracker are mighty impressive just based scale. Luffy appears to be at city-buster levels there, at the bare minimum.

[lord_khaine]

So are the luffy crew doing anything impressive right now?

I cant recall where the heck you are in the story.

Spoiler

Show

But Luffy did manage to steal something from Big Mom.

[Traab]

I cant recall where the heck you are in the story.

Spoiler

Show

But Luffy did manage to steal something from Big Mom.

Im talking about since he got one shot by kaido. I know there were some training things going on while he was locked up, though im fuzzy on the details. What im curious about is, has luffy and the rest of the crew showed a new level of power yet? You know, getting closer to that whole king of the pirates level luffy has been working towards? I know sanji has his mighty morphin power ranger suit, but what about everyone else here?

[Rydiro]

Im talking about since he got one shot by kaido. I know there were some training things going on while he was locked up, though im fuzzy on the details. What im curious about is, has luffy and the rest of the crew showed a new level of power yet? You know, getting closer to that whole king of the pirates level luffy has been working towards? I know sanji has his mighty morphin power ranger suit, but what about everyone else here?

luffy just got some instructions on haki (armaments). Not much. "Haki flowers in the heat of battle". So the next powerup will be winning a decisive battle. I guess kaido is still off limits, even for the pirate alliance.

[Traab]

luffy just got some instructions on haki (armaments). Not much. "Haki flowers in the heat of battle". So the next powerup will be winning a decisive battle. I guess kaido is still off limits, even for the pirate alliance.

Yeah i wouldnt be surprised if they fail to take him down, really though, i would be happy if luffy landed a meaningful punch on him. Even if he got destroyed afterwards and had to be carried out of there, just a real sign that he has gotten stronger because he actually left a mark on kaido even if it would take another 250 of them to bring him down. :p I mean, we are ramping up to the final battle here, marineford 2.0, and its looking to be a monster with the marines, and probably big mom and kaido all wanting a piece of luffy by that point, and he has a LONG way to go before he could squeak out a win without so much plot armor its density warps the screen you watch it on. I mean, its not impossible, heck, with naruto he went from barely able to take kuramas chakra to teaming up with kurama, to demonic sage mode, to six paths sage mode, all in a single day. So for all we know luffy could go into the final battle as he currently is, then manage to create gear 5, awaken his devil fruit, and learn how to infuse his armament and observation with conquerors haki to make it 50x stronger by the time he reaches the akainu/blackbeard blob of horror monster amalgamations. :p (Sorry, just trying to name all the fan theories at once)