Results 781 to 810 of 967
Thread: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
-
2020-06-25, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
So. Not much commenting on the newest chapter.
Though i guess not much is happening.
It seems like Kaido has a big secret. But its of course being teased before a break..thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
-
2020-07-05, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
So, I've been away from the forum for some time.
Which chapter are we on?
-
2020-07-05, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
The newest chapter, Chapter 984, just came out today.
Speaking of, lets discuss it.
SpoilerOh man lets hope Yamato is the cool trans rep I was kinda hoping they would have Kiku be. We'll see though. Excited also for the like, feelings that we'll get from someone who saw Oden's execution first and then learned about him. I'm also just genuinely curious what New Oniigashima means...
-
2020-07-05, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Spoiler: spoilerWho are you?
I'm Yamato.
Yamato who?
...
Yamato Skywalker.
-
2020-07-05, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Spoiler{scrubbed}Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-05 at 09:54 PM.
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
-
2020-07-05, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-05 at 09:55 PM.
-
2020-07-06, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Remember: Offence is taken, not given
Play-by-Post Characters:
Sir Balduin of Buckwood (OOC | IC)
High Priest Azrael (OOC | IC)
-
2020-07-06, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
-
2020-07-06, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
SpoilerTrue, you can't exactly read back through everything to check, but I'm fairy certain the information in the Oda boxes has always been correct. In fact, I seem to remember important characters show without an immediate Oda Box to keep certain information hidden for longer though I can't exactly recall who. At least for now I'm personally gonna stick with the information from the Oda box, but we'll see what Luffy does. To each their own I guess
More interesting to me though is the contrast between Yamato and Momonosuke. Yamato child of Kaido emulates Oden (and seemingly quite literally wants to be Oden) whereas Momonosuke child of Oden has accidently started emulating Kaido. The rightful heir takes after the enemy that killed him and the daughter of that enemy is (or at least wants to be) the spiritual heir. Looking forward to the interactions between Yamato and Momo, as well as to Yamato's reaction to finding out that Red Scabbards are actually alive and currently trying to take down here dad. Maybe we'll see some Barto level of fanboy reaction from her asking for autographs and stuff.Remember: Offence is taken, not given
Play-by-Post Characters:
Sir Balduin of Buckwood (OOC | IC)
High Priest Azrael (OOC | IC)
-
2020-07-06, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
SpoilerI feel like the box is more telling us he was assigned female at birth, because again aside from that single box Yamato has been referred to as male by everyone who knows him.
I'm not sure how Momonosuke has taken after Kaido. Could you explain that bit?
Yamato learning the Red Scabbards are alive is going to send him for a LOOP and I'm excited to see it.
-
2020-07-06, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
SpoilerHuh, I was sure I had put in in my comment, but I seem to have accidentally removed it. I'm talking about Momo's devil fruit powers when I say he has taken after Kaido. It's not nearly as big of an emulation as Yamato's dressing up like Oden (she's even wearing the handcuffs he wore during the execution) but the fact that both Kaido and Momo can turn into eastern style dragons is a very big comparison. So far it is the only similarity between Momo and Kaido but I feel it is a big one. Devil fruits are all unique, mythical zoans are especially rare. I feel that the fact that they have such similar powers is only possible because Momo's fruit is artificial. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Momo's fruit was Vegapunk's attempt at cloning Kaido's fruit. Afterall, we know the laser the Pacifica's use is modelled after Kizaru's fruit. If anyone could artificially clone an existing fruit it would be Vegapunk.
Momo's new dragon power being so similar to that of the man who killed his father was always going to be an interesting thing for the story to explore, but the fact that the daughter of his enemy wants to be like his dad while Momo has the powers of her dad has made the whole dynamic more interesting.Remember: Offence is taken, not given
Play-by-Post Characters:
Sir Balduin of Buckwood (OOC | IC)
High Priest Azrael (OOC | IC)
-
2020-07-06, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- material & internet plane
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
So Yamato is like Bartolomeo, except more over the top (pun not intended) because instead of just fanboying he literally wants to be Oden.
I wonder just how detailed that journal is. Does it give a clue about Laugh Tale? It seemed to me that Kaido's only reason to not outright kill the Nine Scabbards and Momo was because he was trying to get info regarding Oden's time with Roger. And that info is pretty much with his son all along.
I've seen some wild speculation that Marco was actually referring to Perospero, and that the former is planning on convincing the latter to take this opportunity to wreak havoc and go for Kaido's head.
-
2020-07-06, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
-
2020-07-06, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
-
2020-07-07, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Beyond the Helms of Death
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Last edited by Lord of the Helms; 2020-07-07 at 03:54 PM.
You are a Rose, You are a blade
I'm Down on my knees in the dark and fiery reign
-David Defeis, Virgin Steele
The Official Pharaoh Pimp - Power Metal at its finest!
Spoiler
-
2020-07-07, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
-
2020-07-07, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
-
2020-07-07, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
-
2020-07-07, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
The Okama on that island are like Ivankov's, given Ivankov is the ruler of that place. She changes their gender and then has them dress in the opposite clothing as part of their drag lifestyle. I think it's said outright every "newkama" in Impel Down was graced by Ivankov's devil fruit, to the degree where people thought way back when that Luffy might get it as well, if only for a bit since it's reversible.
Incidentally in the anime (and off screen in the manga) the Okama Kingdom in Impel Down is where Crocodile got replacement clothing for the Marineford war. More fuel for the fire that Crocodile is trans himself, in my opinion.
-
2020-07-07, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Ah, I was always kinda vague on ivankovs devil fruit and how it worked. Like, was it either a permanent change or a short term one shot deal? Does it give them the ability to change back and forth at will? So, wait, she switches their gender, then has them dress as the opposite gender? So the men in drag are actually gender swapped women wearing womens clothes? My head hurts.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
-
2020-07-07, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
We know from Ivankov's use of it that only she can change them, and the change can happen multiple times. And yeah, the idea is that everyone is gender swapped and then wearing drag versions of their original clothing.
It's safe to say everyone involving the Okama is... weird, and leave it at that.
-
2020-07-08, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Knoxville Tennessee
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Yea I've assumed that that whole group was probably a mix of trans people, gay people, genderfluid people, people who just like drag, basically a gaggle of LGBT types who presumably aren't all the same other then sharing general classic one piece over the top character designs.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
-
2020-07-08, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
The Okama are pretty unique to the LGBTQ scene of Japan. I think it's pretty dismissive and grossly insensitive to those members of other LGBTQ cultures to just wrap them up into a more Western viewpoint.
-
2020-07-08, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
It is our attempt to understand their subculture with the context that we have, and the point is we're accepting and aren't hating on them, so it's good.
-
2020-07-08, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Knoxville Tennessee
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
Well in the context of Japanese society Okama itself is not set in stone. Generally it just means a gay man, but can also mean someone is a transvestite or also apply trans women with use in context varying based on a lot of factors one of which is apparently spelling because katakana is weird. All that comes before we get into the issue that the people with Ivankov were "newkama" which from what I know isn't even a real term or culture in Japan, and who also are all explicitly genderqueer/genderfluid consider themselves to be beyond the concept. Please explain how us attempting to understand an already complex term alongside the rather interesting but nonexistent culture we see presented in the text of the story through a different cultural lense is "dismissive" or "grossly insensitive"? Outside of the general issue of it being in a middle place in terms of whether or not its slur and potentially a word we might not want to be using but for lack of better or more accurate terminology being used in the series proper.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
-
2020-07-08, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
You could, however, instead of reducing them to a singular perspective attempt to learn about their subculture on its own terms without essentially white-washing it. No one's suspecting you of not accepting them, I'm certainly not. That may be good but white-washing it isn't. It removes other cultural ideas from the pool to simply think of them in a Western context.
I know this is going to sound crazy but if someone is saying "Hey, maybe try to apply their cultural concepts to the discussion instead of making it fit into a Western cultural perspective" they probably know all this and don't need to be condescended to.
The Newkama are still based on concepts that exist, they're rooted in the Japanese culture's expression (and a lot of it negative) on homosexuality. You know this, we went over this before so dismissing it as trying to understand something that doesn't exist sorta proves my point. It's dismissive and insensitive for the same reasons I mentioned quoting LaZodiac. Instead of actually trying to understand a different culture's views (and I'd insensitivity, even if Oda plays it for laughs it's the equivalent of the prissy Queen shown in so many TV shows here no one likes to see anymore) you're applying your own cultural perspective on it. It white-washes another culture's sexual expression. You're not actually trying to understand it on its own terms, you're trying to Americanize it.Last edited by Razade; 2020-07-08 at 03:23 PM.
-
2020-07-08, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
LGBTA+ stuff has always been an umbrella group, so Okama are always welcome. We're not Americanizing it, we're just shorthanding it for people who might not get it.
also Ivankov is literally based on a character from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I think it's safe to say that if anyone is evoking American aesthetic, it's Oda? That's him saying that that character is comparable to their group, after all.Last edited by LaZodiac; 2020-07-08 at 03:38 PM.
-
2020-07-08, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Knoxville Tennessee
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
I mean, you said some things I didn't feel add up if you were aware of how fuzzy and wide the term okama is I don't get why trying to understand it through our lens is somehow inherent bigotry by default.
Ivankov isspecifically presented as a clear reference to Rocky Horror Picture Show, Oda himself clearly to a degree is applying a mix of American and Japanese LGBT thoughts and and ideas to how he portrays the Newkama. Which once again, is a term that, as far as I know, does not specifically exist in japan in wider use before it was used in One Piece. The cultural references already cross the pond outright here.Last edited by Dragonus45; 2020-07-08 at 05:11 PM.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
-
2020-07-08, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
You may be short handing it but it's absolutely Americanizing it. If your shorthand removes any relevant cultural reference or context then it's bad short hand.
A reference to a character doesn't equal a connection to a group. The original three Admirals were all based off actual actors, they aren't comparable to the general Yakuza moves those three starred in.
I don't think either of you are being bigoted. If I felt that, I'd have said that.
See above. A reference to a character isn't somehow blending concepts. If he made a character look like Ronald McDonald serve soba that wouldn't suddenly blend American fast food with Japanese buckwheat noodles. This isn't about the term Newkama, I'm not sure why you keep going back to it. Newkama is a pun based off of Okama which is a term used in Japan and is a cultural aspect of their LGBTQ scene. Which is what we're discussing. Somehow bringing up that a word doesn't exist so you should be free to ignore the Japanese LGBTQ expression or that because he made a reference to a Western character is really weird and not a counter to, or a defeater for, someone pointing out you're ignoring a cultural context to substitute one you're both more comfortable with and/or more familiar with. It actually demonstrates the point.
Got nothing else to say really. Can't stop you or anything. Just, have some self reflection.
-
2020-07-08, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Knoxville Tennessee
- Gender
Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece
This might be were we are crossing wires here. I think the decision to base Iva's design on Frank-N-Furter, alongside an actual cross dressing friend of his, is deliberate and I don't think it's the only way in which western views on the LGBT community are relevant.
But it is, we have a term that he made up to represent a group of flashy and classy badasses leading their own nation and culture which has declared itself beyond gender, lead by Frank-N-Furter with the serial numbers filed off, clearly is drawing comparisons not to any one group or culture. Viewing them through a western lens is absolutely valid and not whitewashing or ignoring anyone.Last edited by Dragonus45; 2020-07-08 at 05:41 PM.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.