One Piece VI: Wano Piece

[lord_khaine]

There's four kinds of abilities in One Piece: Haki, Devil Fruits, Technology, and Weird ****.

Diable Jambe is Weird ****. So is Elizabello's "I store energy when I workout and can unleash it all at once in a single punch" Punch and so on.

I always though Diable Jambe were just a rare manifestation of armament Haki. Like as seen with Luffy's Red Hawk Punch.
Though yes there is plenty of weird stuff. More like the guy who could animate his hair.

Aside from abilities, you also have fighting styles/systems, including:

• Rokushiki (e.g. Cipher Pol, Sanji, Koby)
• Fishman Karate (e.g. Jimbei, Hack, Koala)
• Fidhman Jujutsu / Merman Combat (e.g. Jimbei, Neptune)
• Ryusouken (e.g. Sabo)
• Hasshoken (e.g. Don Chinjao, Sai)
• Tontatta Combat (e.g. dwarves)
• Santoryu (e.g. Zoro)
• Okama Kenpo (e.g. Kamabakka kingdom, Bon Clay)
• Jaokun Do (e.g. Blue Gilly)

Quite impressive work in making the list.
Though im not certain the difference between a lot of them are big enough to be noteworthy.

So... none of you considered a prison break to be useful to you? Really?! But why does kaido even keep these people alive and fed... Just kill them, right? Otherwise you get such cases like Luffy that totally ruin your prison morale.

Now to be fair they were being used for slave work, so there were a reason for keeping them alive.

There's also that Devil Fruits are super rare. Througout the entire course of the series there have been less than a hundred Devil Fruit Users Out of the millions of people on the planet possibly billions you're going to turn something into bullets that will effect a handful of people when you could be using it to make indestructible armor.

Interesting idea with seastone armor, im just not certain if its viable.
Well, of course to start with its likely an extremely bad idea for anyone working on a boat

But besides that, then im not certain its possible to make armor out of seastone.
Its already so hard to make bullets they only got them one place.
And even assuming they could make it like plate armor then im still not certain its worth it.

[deuterio12]

There's also that Devil Fruits are super rare. Througout the entire course of the series there have been less than a hundred Devil Fruit Users Out of the millions of people on the planet possibly billions you're going to turn something into bullets that will effect a handful of people when you could be using it to make indestructible armor.

Stealth fighter jets are pretty rare too, doesn't stop the top countries from investing in super radars and all sorts of missiles to try to counter them specifically.

Rarity doesn't matter when devil fruit users are the top forces in the world. White Beard could've been the only fruit user in existence and that would've still been enough reason for the world government to get their hands in seastone bullets, kinda like superman's the only kryptonian on Earth and that's enough reason for different people to develop all sort of krytponite weapons.

And even assuming they could make it like plate armor then im still not certain its worth it.

Even if you could, it wouldn't do much against concussive damage as kinetic energy can just vibrate through, which is what most devil fruit users are inflicting.

And you know, most battles are in/near the sea. You really don't want to be wearing weighty armor when you may be forced to go for a swim at any time.

[Frozen_Feet]

Reality is unrealistic in this aspect: a lot of real sailors didn't know how to swim to begin with, because they knew it wouldn't save you in the open seas and thought it'd be better to just die quickly. Furthermore, almost any kind of substantial clothing already makes swimming very difficult. I don't remember how common armor was on ships overall, but inability, but "you can't swim in it" would not have been an important point against it.

This goes doubly in One Piece. Devil Fruit users are themselves swimming impaired and we see plenty of people, Don Krieg and his crew being one of the earlier, notable examples, wearing heavy armor.

[deuterio12]

Reality is unrealistic in this aspect: a lot of real sailors didn't know how to swim to begin with, because they knew it wouldn't save you in the open seas and thought it'd be better to just die quickly. Furthermore, almost any kind of substantial clothing already makes swimming very difficult. I don't remember how common armor was on ships overall, but inability, but "you can't swim in it" would not have been an important point against it.

This goes doubly in One Piece. Devil Fruit users are themselves swimming impaired and we see plenty of people, Don Krieg and his crew being one of the earlier, notable examples, wearing heavy armor.

Armor that can be broken by unarmed haki-less strikes is the opposite of "heavy". Luffy's fist aren't even bruised, so that was some quite soft and light metal, which it needed to be for Krieg to be able to move like he did while having less raw strength than Luffy. Krieg's big shiny armor with massive pauldrons was an intimidation technique more than any actual protection, a massive bluff that Luffy saw right through.

Now yes in the real world most ancient sailors didn't know how to swim, but armor has other disadvantages like less mobility and extra weight.

So consider the following if you try to develop seastone armor:
-You can't mass produce it so only a few elite troops may be equiped with it.
-But elite troops in One Piece all rely in super martial arts where mobility is essential.
-So the only troops that could benefit from seastone armor are those that will also be crippled by it as they can't now properly dodge/counter and may as well be sitting blocks.
-Case in point the One Piece marines themselves don't bother even with normal armor for any of their troops, either lowly grunts or top elites. It's not worth it for the lowly basic soldiers that rely in numbers and it's not worth it for the higher ranks that must have their movements be as unhindered as possible.
-Similarly veteran Whitebeard charged into battle with his chest fully exposed despite normal bullets and blades being perfectly able to harm him.

[Frozen_Feet]

Dude. Luffy had massive super strength before even reach Grand Line, being able to crush a sword into pieces with finger strength alone. Plus his bones could block a sharp steel chakram as early as Usop's introduction arc.

You can't call armor "light" based on the protagonist punching through it. Seriously. Don't bother.

[deuterio12]

Yes, I can, in particular since we have a second point of reference in seastone that's as hard as diamond. Not harder, just as hard. And good quality steel tools are what professionals use for cutting diamonds.

And post-timeskip Luffy with haki can't even crack diamond/seastone despite being massively stronger than pre-timeskip Luffy.

So the only logical explanation is that those broken armors and shattered weapons were of pretty crappy fabric. If somebody were calling them "steel", either they were lying or duped or had pretty low standards for "steel".

[Traab]

Yes, I can, in particular since we have a second point of reference in seastone that's as hard as diamond. Not harder, just as hard. And good quality steel tools are what professionals use for cutting diamonds.

And post-timeskip Luffy with haki can't even crack diamond/seastone despite being massively stronger than pre-timeskip Luffy.

So the only logical explanation is that those broken armors and shattered weapons were of pretty crappy fabric. If somebody were calling them "steel", either they were lying or duped or had pretty low standards for "steel".

Pre timeskip luffy is shattering buildings with his feet, steel armor isnt a stretch. He is launching people yards away with the concussive force of his punches and kicks, zorro is cutting steel as early as alabasta, by enis lobby he is capable of cutting entire trains in half while luffy is punching through freaking castle citadel walls. So yeah, that is real steel he is shattering, its just that steel isnt some sort of magical metal that can hold up to a guy whose fists hit harder than cannonballs. Steel body armor is only useful in the one piece universe for dealing with scrubs who dont belong on the grand line.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes, I can, in particular since we have a second point of reference in seastone that's as hard as diamond. Not harder, just as hard. And good quality steel tools are what professionals use for cutting diamonds.

And post-timeskip Luffy with haki can't even crack diamond/seastone despite being massively stronger than pre-timeskip Luffy.

So the only logical explanation is that those broken armors and shattered weapons were of pretty crappy fabric. If somebody were calling them "steel", either they were lying or duped or had pretty low standards for "steel".

This is a pretty massive non-sequitur of an argument.

For one, we have no reference of Luffy trying to cut real diamonds and failing. Based on his feats of strength, we don't have a lot of reasons to think he couldn't crack diamonds.

For two, seastone is special, because it robs Luffy of at least some of his super strength. Untill the current arc, we had no reason to think Luffy could ever bring his full strength to bear against seastone, and even with current arc, we still don't. Luffy's feats of strength with seastone cuffs on are less impressive than his feats at the start of the seried.

For three, Don Krieg's armor is explicitly called out to be steel, specifically, wootz steel. There is no reason to think it is not steel, and no reason to think it is of poor quality, because we see Don Krieg shrug off a point-blank blast from a hand cannon!

That is literally how we as readers find out he has armor!

So again: calling it light because Luffy can punch through it? Ridiculous. On the contrary, it is proof Luffy was a seriously heavy hitter even that early in the series.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

Mostly just set up and revelations and stuff. Nothing too dramatic or really all that interesting. But good!

[Traab]

New chapter!

Mostly just set up and revelations and stuff. Nothing too dramatic or really all that interesting. But good!

Is it the revelation that luffys mom is actually tsuru? (Dragon likes older women, tsuru invented it)

[ben-zayb]

Alright, so I guess that justified Hiyori's action?

Still no idea what Oda is trying to do with Tonoyasu. On one hand, he sold off his daughter. On the other hand...nah, he sold off his daughter, that's just hard to get through.

[Devonix]

Alright, so I guess that justified Hiyori's action?

Still no idea what Oda is trying to do with Tonoyasu. On one hand, he sold off his daughter. On the other hand...nah, he sold off his daughter, that's just hard to get through.

It's a different context. what he did is something that's supposed to be seen as a good thing, someone in a poor neighborhood sending his child off to a place where they can have a better life than the one he can give them.

[Lizard Lord]

It's a different context. what he did is something that's supposed to be seen as a good thing, someone in a poor neighborhood sending his child off to a place where they can have a better life than the one he can give them.

Yea he sent his daughter off to live in the rich capital instead of the starving slums. There are parents that would do that without even being paid for it.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

Spoiler

Show

It uh...it sure happened. I got nothing, sorry, it's so hard to like...talk about One Piece for me all of a sudden.

[ellenate]

New chapter!

Spoiler

Show

It uh...it sure happened. I got nothing, sorry, it's so hard to like...talk about One Piece for me all of a sudden.

I found it odd how long they were keeping the guy's face a secret, i thought it was going to be a familiar face. (is he a past character...?)

[Kato]

I found it odd how long they were keeping the guy's face a secret, i thought it was going to be a familiar face. (is he a past character...?)

Yasu? Yes, he was just prominently featured last week, which was like all about him and who he is because nobody could remember his face from the past or put an importance to it.

I actually feel like this is a pretty weird arc for him. And I don't quite see the point right now.

[ellenate]

Yasu? Yes, he was just prominently featured last week, which was like all about him and who he is because nobody could remember his face from the past or put an importance to it.

I actually feel like this is a pretty weird arc for him. And I don't quite see the point right now.

see that's confusing, weren't they suppose to be freeing him?

i have been continually getting lost in this story. the chick zoro is with is the one all the bad guys think is dead right? then she's the little dragon/prince kid's sister. She was then sold to some king, but wasn't the ninja guys suppose to be raising her? someone ratted the whole plan out, but then it's revealed that someone simply let it slip out during casual conversation?

people are getting arrested off camera... law left.

luffy for some reason, is still in prison when he's talking to allies who have already snuck into the prison? (i think they are planning a huge prison break) One of zoro's swords is still missing. The little girl is yasu's daughter, wasn't he in prison for like... a long time. Cause she look pretty young.

I thought we were going to start focusing on the revolutionaries but then they all just disappeared i hope all that stuff isn't off-camera'd. or has it already been settled. I'm remembering them sneaking into the wg and nothing else after that. i think shanks made an appearance?

[lord_khaine]

i have been continually getting lost in this story. the chick zoro is with is the one all the bad guys think is dead right? then she's the little dragon/prince kid's sister. She was then sold to some king, but wasn't the ninja guys suppose to be raising her? someone ratted the whole plan out, but then it's revealed that someone simply let it slip out during casual conversation?

It does indeed seem like its the case. She were raised by the Kappa in the prison before he got caught. And ended up as a courtesan.
We still dont know entirely how she escaped.

luffy for some reason, is still in prison when he's talking to allies who have already snuck into the prison? (i think they are planning a huge prison break) One of zoro's swords is still missing. The little girl is yasu's daughter, wasn't he in prison for like... a long time. Cause she look pretty young.

And yes Luffy is in prison. He is talking with the Ninja who snuck in to free him.
There are 2 small girls. One of them are the daughter of the guy with the afro. The one who noone could remember were.
As far as i can understand he had not been in prison.

I thought we were going to start focusing on the revolutionaries but then they all just disappeared i hope all that stuff isn't off-camera'd. or has it already been settled. I'm remembering them sneaking into the wg and nothing else after that. i think shanks made an appearance?

Thats stuff that takes place in the background. And yeah for some reason Shanks snuck in to speak with the Gorosei.

[ellenate]

It does indeed seem like its the case. She were raised by the Kappa in the prison before he got caught. And ended up as a courtesan.
We still dont know entirely how she escaped.

She wasn't sold, she just ended up as an courteasn after guy got caught... then he got freed... then ended up on a elephant's back. So who was the girl that was sold to a king? That couldn't have been her, cause her father (wano's old king) was killed and kappa ran away with her.

And yes Luffy is in prison. He is talking with the Ninja who snuck in to free him.
There are 2 small girls. One of them are the daughter of the guy with the afro. The one who noone could remember were.
As far as i can understand he had not been in prison.

ok i've seem to have confused Kawamatsu for Yasuie. So Kawamatsu (shadow guy) has yet to be revealed...

Caribou keeps popping up, i thought he was just a throwaway character. the last thing i remember about him is a cover art story that had him with his brother and grandma. So i have no clue how he got to wano.

there are two little girls? Is the other one the girl luffy met during the beginning of the arc? (the one who was starving)

Thats stuff that takes place in the background. And yeah for some reason Shanks snuck in to speak with the Gorosei.

then why bother with the long in-depth intro? Buggy is another character that is being largely ignored. and the mother who claims her son is whitebeard's... enel on the moon... aliens... oda hasn't touched on a few things in a while.

I wouldn't mind if some of the stuff the stawhats were doing was off-screened, cause it's boring. The girls were in a hot spring the last chapter, with pointless stuff like that is it a wonder why oda had to start combining arcs? This arc seemed like the perfect time to off-screen the SH while they where plotting their next move against kaido. (that's what i thought was going to happen, but it was just a month break)

Not going to bother pining over the whole shanks thing, i knew from the jump it'd be ignored for the next 200+ chapters. but the revolutionaries where right there so i thought we'd at least stick with them for a while.



question:

"Would a majority of the setup for wano being backgrounded have hurt the story?" A majority of the characters are just twiddling their thumbs anyway.

Also my favorite arc post time skip was the last one but i feel like it's being muddy by big mom coming after them. It's like it never really ended. Did it end? Lol, are we still currently in it?

[lord_khaine]

She wasn't sold, she just ended up as an courteasn after guy got caught... then he got freed... then ended up on a elephant's back. So who was the girl that was sold to a king? That couldn't have been her, cause her father (wano's old king) was killed and kappa ran away with her.

what Elephant?
No the girl who got sold were the daughter of Afro-guy.
The weird girl who cant stop laughing. The King bit were likely just bad translation.

ok i've seem to have confused Kawamatsu for Yasuie. So Kawamatsu (shadow guy) has yet to be revealed...

Caribou keeps popping up, i thought he was just a throwaway character. the last thing i remember about him is a cover art story that had him with his brother and grandma. So i have no clue how he got to wano.

there are two little girls? Is the other one the girl luffy met during the beginning of the arc? (the one who was starving)

Yeah Kawamatsu is the guy in the cage who had survived for countless years on a daily rotten fish. One of Odens 9 samurai.
And yes, the other girl is the one with the dog. The one Luffy meet. The one who has the strange DF ability that tames beasts.

then why bother with the long in-depth intro? Buggy is another character that is being largely ignored. and the mother who claims her son is whitebeard's... enel on the moon... aliens... oda hasn't touched on a few things in a while.

I wouldn't mind if some of the stuff the stawhats were doing was off-screened, cause it's boring. The girls were in a hot spring the last chapter, with pointless stuff like that is it a wonder why oda had to start combining arcs? This arc seemed like the perfect time to off-screen the SH while they where plotting their next move against kaido. (that's what i thought was going to happen, but it was just a month break)

Not going to bother pining over the whole shanks thing, i knew from the jump it'd be ignored for the next 200+ chapters. but the revolutionaries where right there so i thought we'd at least stick with them for a while.

Welcome to One Piece?
Its impossible to know whats important, and whats not.
I personally suspect the plot briefly jumps away like that to hint at other things taking place in the wider world. To make it clear that it does not revolve around the SH crew.

"Would a majority of the setup for wano being backgrounded have hurt the story?" A majority of the characters are just twiddling their thumbs anyway.

Also my favorite arc post time skip was the last one but i feel like it's being muddy by big mom coming after them. It's like it never really ended. Did it end? Lol, are we still currently in it?

Its again impossible to tell whats relevant and whats not. But yeah, im also often annoyed by the time wasted on stupid flashbacks.
Like.. the time an entire chapter were spend on that dog?

So far i also do dislike the introduction of Big Mom. But it can be because the SH crew isnt meant to be quite strong enough to handle Kaido alone yet.

[ellenate]

what Elephant?
No the girl who got sold were the daughter of Afro-guy.
The weird girl who cant stop laughing. The King bit were likely just bad translation.

Zou, the elephant island. The kappa guy was just chilling with the poneglyph while all the minks were getting slaughtered.

So the guy on the stake sold his daughter... to his enemies. and he was playing robinhood. Yeah there has to be some sort of translation error... somewhere.

Yeah Kawamatsu is the guy in the cage who had survived for countless years on a daily rotten fish. One of Odens 9 samurai.
And yes, the other girl is the one with the dog. The one Luffy meet. The one who has the strange DF ability that tames beasts.

At first i thought shadow guy (kawamatsu) was Eustass and was confused as to why Oda kept hiding him. Also where the heck did kid (Eustass) go? first him and luffy are working together then poof.

Welcome to One Piece?
Its impossible to know whats important, and whats not.
I personally suspect the plot briefly jumps away like that to hint at other things taking place in the wider world. To make it clear that it does not revolve around the SH crew.

There's aliens! And he's just up there, for like 3 years. I NEED to know what he's doing. How is he surviving, do logias not need to eat? You can't just show us space pirates and then ignore them for like close to 10+ years

Its again impossible to tell whats relevant and whats not. But yeah, im also often annoyed by the time wasted on stupid flashbacks.
Like.. the time an entire chapter were spend on that dog?

So far i also do dislike the introduction of Big Mom. But it can be because the SH crew isnt meant to be quite strong enough to handle Kaido alone yet.

What dog?

big mom just feels like the germa 66 plot device of this arc. even so, they came to fight kaido. I can't see them punking out. perhaps BM and Kaido will tire themselves out, then the small fry will come in to finish things up. I don't think luffy would be opposed to such a thing. Law did help him with Doflamingo.

[ben-zayb]

The Kappa Guy is Kawamatsu, the fishbone-eater imprisoned in Udon. The ninja kept safe in the mink territory is Raizo of the Mist, who's a completely different character.

I get that One Piece has a crapton of characters to keep track of, but the story would feel more confusing that it actually is when characters get mixed up like this.

[lord_khaine]

So the guy on the stake sold his daughter... to his enemies. and he was playing robinhood. Yeah there has to be some sort of translation error... somewhere.

He wasnt playing Robin Hood. He were stealing food to try and prevent people from dying of starvation?
As for translation error. No. Did you miss the bit about his village dying from starvation and povety?
Did his daughter look healthy and well feed?

At first i thought shadow guy (kawamatsu) was Eustass and was confused as to why Oda kept hiding him. Also where the heck did kid (Eustass) go? first him and luffy are working together then poof.

We were told he decided to run away without the key to the seastone cuffs.

There's aliens! And he's just up there, for like 3 years. I NEED to know what he's doing. How is he surviving, do logias not need to eat? You can't just show us space pirates and then ignore them for like close to 10+ years

Those little cover stories are often all we get as epiloge over a defeated villain if the plot are done with them.
Its impossible to know if he will ever come back.

What dog?

The one in the first arc with Buggy. I do of course know its around 20? years since we heard of it.

[Razade]

Zou, the elephant island. The kappa guy was just chilling with the poneglyph while all the minks were getting slaughtered.

So the guy on the stake sold his daughter... to his enemies. and he was playing robinhood. Yeah there has to be some sort of translation error... somewhere.


At first i thought shadow guy (kawamatsu) was Eustass and was confused as to why Oda kept hiding him. Also where the heck did kid (Eustass) go? first him and luffy are working together then poof.

I honestly feel like paying a little more attention to the story would help a lot of these issues.

1. The Kappa guy wasn't on Zou. He's been imprisoned for a long time.

2. It's not a translation error. They're not trying to make the Hedgehog seem good because he sold his daughter. They're pointing out how terrible Wano has become that a father must sell his daughter so she might have a better life than he can provide. Like. They literally say that in the chapter it's brought up. They also point out how they're always smiling the same way. It wasn't a hard connection to miss out on even with all the characters.

3. We know Eustass broke out of the prison. We were told that, word by word. So that's where he is and also why there's no way Kawamatsu could have been him from the get go. We also see Eustass out and about before he escaped and we've been told that Kawamatsu has to be kept inside his cell and fed poison fish so he can't break free.

[ellenate]

He wasnt playing Robin Hood. He were stealing food to try and prevent people from dying of starvation?

He stole from the rich to give to the poor, how is that not like robin hood...?

As for translation error. No. Did you miss the bit about his village dying from starvation and povety?
Did his daughter look healthy and well feed?

So he can feed random villagers but not his own daughter... His motivations/actions are weak and contradictory. Not to mention his daughter was almost killed by them like 2 chapters ago. She was better off just starving to death then to be raised/enslaved by those monsters.

We were told he decided to run away without the key to the seastone cuffs.

So he just left the prison... ok. (i won't bother for an explanation, as i assumed it was briefly glossed over in dialogue.)

1. The Kappa guy wasn't on Zou. He's been imprisoned for a long time.

lord_khaine said "she were raised by the Kappa in the prison". Which i assume meant "kappa" could refer to multiple people. Now i'm realizing it's a nickname because of some silly dance or whatever.

2. It's not a translation error. They're not trying to make the Hedgehog seem good because he sold his daughter. They're pointing out how terrible Wano has become that a father must sell his daughter so she might have a better life than he can provide. Like. They literally say that in the chapter it's brought up. They also point out how they're always smiling the same way. It wasn't a hard connection to miss out on even with all the characters.

Not having the same emotion response isn't, "missing out on a connection". It's a difference of opinion.

We know Eustass broke out of the prison. We were told that, word by word. So that's where he is and also why there's no way Kawamatsu could have been him from the get go. We also see Eustass out and about before he escaped and we've been told that Kawamatsu has to be kept inside his cell and fed poison fish so he can't break free.

Guess he should've asked eustass for some tips...

[lord_khaine]

He stole from the rich to give to the poor, how is that not like robin hood...?

I newer said that. I said he wasnt playing. Its a matter of life and death for them.

So he can feed random villagers but not his own daughter... His motivations/actions are weak and contradictory. Not to mention his daughter was almost killed by them like 2 chapters ago. She was better off just starving to death then to be raised/enslaved by those monsters.

Did you miss the bit about them being inches from starvation?
There are nothing weak or contradictory about his actions. She were destined for a better sort of life than he could offer.
And how the heck do you expect him to predict her insulting the Shogun?

So he just left the prison... ok. (i won't bother for an explanation, as i assumed it was briefly glossed over in dialogue.)

No he broke out. We have already been shown how the security really isnt meant to handle someone at Luffy's power level.
The main issue is that the cuffs are almost impossible to remove without the key.

lord_khaine said "she were raised by the Kappa in the prison". Which i assume meant "kappa" could refer to multiple people. Now i'm realizing it's a nickname because of some silly dance or whatever.

Actually a Kappa is a mythological japanese being. There are only one of those in the serie so far. So i though it was a rather description :P

Guess he should've asked eustass for some tips...

What would that have helped?
Its not like they were kept under the same degree of security.

[Razade]

So he can feed random villagers but not his own daughter... His motivations/actions are weak and contradictory. Not to mention his daughter was almost killed by them like 2 chapters ago. She was better off just starving to death then to be raised/enslaved by those monsters.

So...so much to unpack. Just. Wow.

1. He may not have been able to steal enough to feed himself (we're told he doesn't eat), his daughter and the villagers. The needs of the many, etc etc. Again, we're told he doesn't eat much and gives everything he has to the others so this seems likely.

2. He may not have known how bad it would be for his daughter. He may well have known how bad it might be for his daughter but also known that it was just as or at least close to likely it would be better for her. So he took the risk. If she's going to die of starvation if he does nothing than it's absolutely the right thing to do to even subject her to the horrors she's been subjected to. Which by the way are super recent. Before the Straw Hats and Orochi, she has living a good life with plenty of food and people who cared for her. So ya know. Her dad made the right gamble. She's had a better life than starving to death.

3. His motivations aren't weak, he tried to save as many people as he could. Just because he didn't or hasn't succeeded doesn't make the motivation weak. Sometimes you can try your best and still fail. They're also not contradictory. See above as to why.

lord_khaine said "she were raised by the Kappa in the prison". Which i assume meant "kappa" could refer to multiple people. Now i'm realizing it's a nickname because of some silly dance or whatever.

We're talking about two different characters now. One is the smiling girl. The other is Momo's sister. Either way, neither of them were raised in the prison. The latter was raised by the Kappa (which doesn't refer to more than one person) until they were imprisoned. Momo's sister then became a prostitute after that.

Not having the same emotion response isn't, "missing out on a connection". It's a difference of opinion.

You misunderstand. This isn't about an opinion. The connection isn't an emotional one. It's that the Robin Hood figure and the smiling kid are related. That's the connection, they're related. You didn't see it until this chapter and I was pointing out that...it was telegraphed all over the place.

[ellenate]

I newer said that. I said he wasnt playing. Its a matter of life and death for them.

Did you miss the bit about them being inches from starvation?
There are nothing weak or contradictory about his actions. She were destined for a better sort of life than he could offer.
And how the heck do you expect him to predict her insulting the Shogun?

How could i have missed it when i acknowledged it multiple times? Like with Razade, you're arguing over emotional response... (you two may not realize it but you are)

Handing your child over to a monster for safe keeping is a contradictory action. It the action of a broken man, not something i see fit for applaud.

No he broke out. We have already been shown how the security really isnt meant to handle someone at Luffy's power level.
The main issue is that the cuffs are almost impossible to remove without the key.

He left/he broke out. They are the same thing no matter how you try to twist it.

What would that have helped?
Its not like they were kept under the same degree of security.

...He should've talked to kid, he'd be free right now.

The needs of the many, etc etc.

If that's the case, why didn't he send multiple kids? That just goes to show one of the many contradictions with his motives/actions.

He may not have known how bad it would be for his daughter. He may well have known how bad it might be for his daughter but also known that it was just as or at least close to likely it would be better for her. So he took the risk. If she's going to die of starvation if he does nothing than it's absolutely the right thing to do to even subject her to the horrors she's been subjected to. Which by the way are super recent. Before the Straw Hats and Orochi, she has living a good life with plenty of food and people who cared for her. So ya know. Her dad made the right gamble. She's had a better life than starving to death.

Yeah i guess them:

polluting the land
starving people
killing (it's one piece so maybe i should just say bodily harming) any who oppose
and then incarcerating the rest in their death camp prison

is just them on their bad days, otherwise they are very nice people who can be trusted to take care of a child.

His motivations aren't weak, he tried to save as many people as he could. Just because he didn't or hasn't succeeded doesn't make the motivation weak. Sometimes you can try your best and still fail. They're also not contradictory. See above as to why.

I don't agree, he wasn't saving anyone.

He has done nothing but continue people's suffering while providing them no real hope. The mother was about to kill her child on one of those pages. His actions have only lead to harder falls for these people...

I could see if he was trying to build them a boat so they could escape. Heck i'd even take some attempts at trying to grow crops. If he can steal food he can steal seeds and soil surely.

What's that saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Nothing he did was going to lead to a better future. So if his motives were to help he was doing a poor job of it. Like the whole situation with his daughter. Which is why i say his motives were weak, they led to nothing good.

[lord_khaine]

Handing your child over to a monster for safe keeping is a contradictory action. It the action of a broken man, not something i see fit for applaud.

Your confusing broken with desperate.
Those two things are not the same. There isnt anything contradictory in picking the path most likely to give your child a good life.

He left/he broke out. They are the same thing no matter how you try to twist it.

Its actually not needed to do any sort of twisting.
Those are already two words with very different meanings.
When someone leaves there is the implications that they were free to do so.
When someone breaks its because something were trying to prevent them.

...He should've talked to kid, he'd be free right now.

That does not make any sense. Luffy also spoke to Kid. A lot of people did so. They have not magically become free.
What is it speaking with Kid would change for the best guarded prisoner?

If that's the case, why didn't he send multiple kids? That just goes to show one of the many contradictions with his motives/actions.

We so far dont have a single contradiction in his motives.
What multiple kids do you want him to send? What evidence do we have for there being a demand for them?

polluting the land
starving people
killing (it's one piece so maybe i should just say bodily harming) any who oppose
and then incarcerating the rest in their death camp prison

is just them on their bad days, otherwise they are very nice people who can be trusted to take care of a child.

No they are horrible, selfish people.
But that still doesnt change that being one of their well fed servants are a better fate than starving to death.

I don't agree, he wasn't saving anyone.

He has done nothing but continue people's suffering while providing them no real hope. The mother was about to kill her child on one of those pages. His actions have only lead to harder falls for these people...

Your entitled to that oppinion. But its provenly wrong.
If the starvation has been that bad, then he likely is the only reason a lot of them are alive to see better times if/when Monosuke takes over.

I could see if he was trying to build them a boat so they could escape. Heck i'd even take some attempts at trying to grow crops. If he can steal food he can steal seeds and soil surely.

So.. how do you expect a thief to build a boat able to handle the directly -HORRIBLE- weather around the island?
Or for them to gather enough supplies to get anyway? There are a million reasons for why the boat plan dont work. Even more for why the stealing earth plan wouldnt do so.

Nothing he did was going to lead to a better future. So if his motives were to help he was doing a poor job of it. Like the whole situation with his daughter. Which is why i say his motives were weak, they led to nothing good.

If his motive were to help people to stay alive then he has done a great job. As they are, in fact, still alive. And has been so for several years. Alive long enough for Odens heir to return.

[ellenate]

Your confusing broken with desperate.
Those two things are not the same. There isnt anything contradictory in picking the path most likely to give your child a good life.

You sure.

Its actually not needed to do any sort of twisting.
Those are already two words with very different meanings.
When someone leaves there is the implications that they were free to do so.
When someone breaks its because something were trying to prevent them.

How about reaching then.

That does not make any sense. Luffy also spoke to Kid. A lot of people did so. They have not magically become free.
What is it speaking with Kid would change for the best guarded prisoner?

They probably didn't say please. Kid got that juice, walked straight out of jail with cuffs on, and everything.

We so far dont have a single contradiction in his motives.
What multiple kids do you want him to send? What evidence do we have for there being a demand for them?

Yeah you're right, they probably already starved to death.

No they are horrible, selfish people.
But that still doesnt change that being one of their well fed servants are a better fate than starving to death.

Just don't ever laugh.

Your entitled to that oppinion. But its provenly wrong.
If the starvation has been that bad, then he likely is the only reason a lot of them are alive to see better times if/when Monosuke takes over.

That wasn't his plan. It's happening, but that wasn't his plan.

So.. how do you expect a thief to build a boat able to handle the directly -HORRIBLE- weather around the island?
Or for them to gather enough supplies to get anyway? There are a million reasons for why the boat plan dont work. Even more for why the stealing earth plan wouldnt do so.

"picking the path most likely to give your child a good life"


All of his actions led to a slow painful death. except his daughter, that was going to be quick. so i guess i should give him credit for that one.

If his motive were to help people to stay alive then he has done a great job. As they are, in fact, still alive. And has been so for several years. Alive long enough for Odens heir to return.

that lady going to kill her baby so he failed at that.