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Thread: Help with ToB
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2007-09-27, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Help with ToB
I am about to start a small gestalt campaign and am thinking of playing a Factotum//Warblade. PrCs are banned by the DM, and I do not want to multiclass. I would like the most optomized build possible under these restrictions. Two flaws are allowed. 1-20 level build, if you don't mind.
I have never played a ToB class before so skills/maneuvers/feats etc. are all appreciated.
Thank you guys in advance.Last edited by BardicDuelist; 2007-09-27 at 07:29 PM.
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2007-09-27, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Iron Heart and Diamond Mind are good Warblade disciplines. At 20, Time Stands Still, Lightning Throw, Adamantine Hurricane, Diamond Nightmare Blade and Greater Insightful Strike are all good.
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
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2007-09-27, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Honestly? The most optimized build out of that would fill every available feat slot with Font of Inspiration--that'll get you 55 inspiration points, if I'm not mistaken. You'll have to meet the following INT benchmarks to make it work:
18 at 1st level
20 at 3rd
22 at 6th
24 at 9th
26 at 12th
28 at 15th
30 at 18th
Do whatever you want on the Warblade side--the factotum side will make you a god. Spend all 55 inspiration points in one round to deal 55d6 sneak attack damage, for instance. Or get nearly unlimited standard actions to use on Warblade maneuvers.Last edited by Tellah; 2007-09-27 at 07:42 PM.
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2007-09-27, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2007-09-27, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Easton, PA
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2007-09-27, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
Re: Help with ToB
Are you kidding? Getting Int that high is trivial, if you're focused on it.
Start with 18 Int. Take gray elf as your race (20). Now you're good for first and third. By sixth, you've put one level increase into intelligence and you've got at least a headband +2 (23). By ninth, you've got another level increase and probably a +4 headband (26). At twelfth, you get another level increase and you get a +6 headband (29). Put your level 16 increase in, and you've to 30 by level 18. And that's without inherent bonuses.I am a poor man, some say I’m half crazy,
son of the sword and the knife
Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
my heart and my pride and my life
--Bella Doña, by Joe Bethancourt
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2007-09-27, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
It's feasible with a human using point buy, although you'll have to pump all your gold into your INT mod initially. If you aren't a human, though, that's one less feat you'll be able to take, so you'll only need to meet:
16 at 1st level
18 at 3rd
20 at 6th
22 at 9th
24 at 12th
26 at 15th
28 at 18th
And you'll get 45 inspiration points. That's very doable with a Gray Elf, which would be a fair choice for a Warblade, STR- and CON-penalties aside. Don't bother taking Weapon Finesse, because you'll always be adding your INT mod to hit, which should be plenty.Last edited by Tellah; 2007-09-27 at 07:55 PM.
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2007-09-27, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
I was thinking of taking Sun Elf since FR races are usually available.
By RAW does the factotum ability at level 19 allow you to mimic maneuvers/spells/powers? Are they technically class features by RAW, or no?
Can you use UMD to make a UPD check because you can mimic skill ranks?Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2007-09-27, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Help with ToB
I seem to see people suggesting satisfying feat prerequisites with enhancement bonus items.
Am I missing something here?
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2007-09-27, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Help with ToB
If you are, so am I. 'Cause, you know, you can use ability score enhancement items to qualify for USING something, but not to qualify for taking character options, such as feats...
In other words, if the feat listed a stat requirement in the Prerequisite line, you basically have to qualify naked, no items, no spells. If it says a requirement in, say, the Benefit portion, then you can use items for it.
Without having Complete Adventurer in front of me, I couldn't tell you what the specifics on this...
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2007-09-27, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
It's not in Complete Adventurer...Factotums are out of Dungeonscape apparently, and the feat in question is linked in this thread. The relevant text, though, is:
Special: You can take this multiple times. Each time you take this feat after the first time, the number of inspiration points you gain increases by 1 (for example, you gain 2 inspiration points if you take the feat a second time). The maximum number of times you can take this feat is equal to your Intelligence modifier.
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2007-09-27, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
I seem to remember somthing saying you can qualify for feats and PrCs with magic items, but I don't remember where.
I will probably just take what my character can with an unmodified INT though. What other feats would be good?Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2007-09-27, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
Re: Help with ToB
Last edited by Gralamin; 2007-09-27 at 09:37 PM.
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2007-09-27, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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2007-09-27, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Last edited by Jack Mann; 2007-09-27 at 09:19 PM.
I am a poor man, some say I’m half crazy,
son of the sword and the knife
Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
my heart and my pride and my life
--Bella Doña, by Joe Bethancourt
Spoiler
Alas, poor Draknir. By Mephibosheth
Owl-atar by KingGolem
You will be missed, dear 'stache...
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2007-09-27, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: Help with ToB
Let's see: Human, take two flaws (which?), and Font of Ispiration 4 times at first level.
1-18 Int, Font of Inspiration x4(12 Inspiration Points)
3-Vital Recovery
6-Sudden Recovery
8-20 Int
9-Font of inspiration (20 Inspiration points)
12-
15-
16-22 Int
18- Font of Inspiration (29 Inspiration points)
What should I take to fill in the blanks if I don't want to use magic items to meet prereqs? Is there any Pazuzu/Faustian Pact cheeze that I can use to increase my Inspiration points?
EDIT: Filled in some blanks. How does it look?Last edited by BardicDuelist; 2007-09-27 at 09:43 PM.
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
-
2007-09-27, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
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2007-09-27, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Most of your bread-and-butter maneuvers will be coming from Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, and White Raven with a little bit of Tiger Claw (more if you're going TWF). You can avoid most of Stone Dragon.
I was going to list the maneuvers to take at each level, but I forgot gestalt rules means your IL increases at 150%... you qualify for 9th level maneuvers at level 12/12. Hrrrk... not sure what I'd take, but I suppose I'd pick a 9th level maneuver like Time Stands Still (DM9), work out which prereqs I'd want for it, and work from there.
Do you know if you want to go TWF or THF?Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2007-09-27, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Even better!
By RAW does the factotum ability at level 19 allow you to mimic maneuvers/spells/powers? Are they technically class features by RAW, or no?
Can you use UMD to make a UPD check because you can mimic skill ranks?
As for those four other feats, one of them should definitely be Adaptive Style--it's almost required for Warblades. You might also go for the classic Power Attack->Improved Bull Rush->Shock Trooper->Knockdown with a reach weapon.
I know you aren't looking to PrC much, but Exemplar is really, really good for a skill monkey. The ability to grant other people skill bonuses, and have them help you with Aid Another, is fantastic--even if you don't construct an army of nanobots.Last edited by Tellah; 2007-09-27 at 11:43 PM.
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2007-09-27, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
He said PrC's are banned. And warblades don't need adaptive, that's swordsage. So shocktrooper is feasible.
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2007-09-27, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Ooh, forgot the whole PrC banination thing. I disagree about Adaptive Style, though; from ninth level on, you only have about half of your maneuvers readied, just like the swordsage. You could very well need one of the ones you don't have readied. Of course, he is playing gestalt with Factotum on the other side, so maybe flexibility won't be a big issue for him.
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2007-09-27, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
You can avoid most of Stone Dragon.
1-18 Int, Font of Inspiration x4(12 Inspiration Points)
3-Vital Recovery
6-Sudden Recovery
8-20 Int
9-Font of inspiration (20 Inspiration points)
12-
15-
16-22 Int
18- Font of Inspiration (29 Inspiration points)
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2007-09-28, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
That's why I said "most" of Stone Dragon. Mountain Hammer is your all-purpose anti-DR can-opener (and with gestalt you can pick it up at WB2). The rest of Stone Dragon are generally Standard Action single attacks, and with full BAB Warblades are much better off taking counters or boosts so they can get the most out of their iterative attacks.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2007-09-28, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
I'm playing a Raptoran Warblade right now and it's great fun.
I would recomend the Stone Bones, Steel Wind (I think) and Moment of Perfect Clarity maneuvers and the stance that gives you scent.Own it, pwn it, nuke it, sheep it, eat it, quick re -right it, Joe it, turn it, turnip, pimp it, gimp it, dot it, rock it, spec re - spec it...
I'm bringing smexy back
As a Warblade, I'm pimp as hell.
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2007-09-28, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Would lesser Tiefling be a better chioce? (I just opened Player's Guide to FR for the first time in two years.)
It is allowed.
Are there any level 3 or lower arcane spells that grant evasion? What book?
Maneuvers?
Also, just told that this is a level 9 campaign. I am thinking:
Lesser Tiefling
Rolled and added: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 22, Wis 11, Cha 12, Yay!
Feats: Font of Inspiration for all (for a total of +21 Inspiration Points), Flaws (Murkey Eyed and Shakey)
What skills and maneuvers? Is IjFocus in the SRD?
Also, is Font of Inspiration broken since I can do 13d6 SA Damage at level 4? Even at 9, 21d6 seems like a lot.Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2007-09-28, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Help with ToB
Iajitsu focus isn't in the SRD. I sorta can piece together how it works from text, though, so it works sorta like this: Charisma based skill, skill check/5 extra D6 on all damage to a flatfooted opponent, provided you have just drawn your weapon. Quickdraw may be useful, as are throwing weapons.
http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-10793.html
The SA is once during the fight, and uses up all your other action options. But yeah, it is very powerful.
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2007-09-28, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Lesser Tieflings make excellent TWF/Tiger Claw Warblades.
Evasion is hard to come by... the CO guide for Fochlucan Lyrists has some ideas on how to get evasion:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.p...26&postcount=2
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries might work best for a 1 level dip but the OP said no PrCs... so that leaves Ring of Evasion (which eats up most of your WBL funds), Shade template (LA +2), or the Soulmeld feats.
Direct damage isn't broken, you'll still get pwned by sharp-minded spellcasters.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2007-09-28, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Depending on how your DM chooses to interpret "standard character class", you get a whole mess of awesome class abilities available as a 19th level factotum.
You only get to pick three of them each day, use them for 1 minute only, and can only pick each of them one time. And they cost 4 inspiration points. But hot darn.
Swashbuckler has a few gems.
Insightful Strike: For 1 minute each day, your factotum can add their INT mod to their damage when using a finesseable weapon. On top of any other damage boosts including their strength modifier. Doesn't work on undead or other sneak/critical immune creatures.
Still a really good/interesting/fitting choice for you.
Lucky: For 4 inspiration points (and only once each day), you get to re-roll any failed attack, damage, save, skill, ect, ect. It's not a game breaker or anything, but it is is an interesting ace up the sleeve.
"You failed your reflex save and died."
*handwave* no I didn't. Maybe.
Weakening Critical: For 1 minute, any critical hit you make deals 2 strength damage. Go drizzt for potentially leaving your enemy a helpless pile of gore. And probably still alive, so now you have a hostage/prisoner, which is always fun.
There might be better options, but it's still pretty slick.Last edited by SilverClawShift; 2007-09-28 at 03:08 PM.
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2007-09-28, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help with ToB
Almost. Ruin Delver's Fortune is a 4th level spell that gives charisma bonus (as a luck bonus) to a save type of your choice for 1d4 rounds. It also gives a special extra depending on which save you pick, and the special for reflex saves is evasion. Personal range and very short duration, but its casting time is an immediate action so you can cast it the instant you need it any time you're not flatfooted. It's in the Spell Compendium.
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