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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Heroic Bloodline Sorcerer Balancing

    This is my first attempt at a homebrew subclass, I'm designing this to be dropped into my world where nearly every heroic figure from mythology used magic in some way shape or form. mechanically I'm trying to go for a spell caster who can sit in the front lines comfortably and mix melee with magic to rip apart their enemies. With this being a full caster I looked at the two closest versions to this and tried to find a similar balance to them i.e. bladsinger wizard and valor/sword bard.


    Spoiler: Current Version
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    Battlefield Presence
    At first level, While you are concentrating on a Sorcerer spell that targets you; you gain a bonus to concentration saving throws equal to the spells level.

    In addition you gain additional spells known. At each indicated sorcerer level, add the listed spells to your spells known. They do not count towards your spells known limit and they count as sorcerer spells for you.


    1st: Heroism
    3rd: Shadow Blade
    5th: Haste
    7th: Shadow of Moil
    9th: Holy weapon

    Bonus Proficiencies
    At first level you gain proficiency with light armor, medium armor, and martial weapons.

    Extra Attack
    Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Ghost Step
    Starting at 14th level, Immediatly after you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.

    Heroic Onslaught
    Starting at 18th level when you reduce an enemy to 0 hp you can spend 1 sorcery point to use your ghost step and immediately make an additional attack as part of the same attack action. You can do this a maximum of three times per turn.




    Spoiler: Old Version
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    Battlefield Presence
    At first level, While you are concentrating on a spell that targets you; you gain a bonus to concentration saving throws equal to the spells level.
    In addition whenever you reduce a creature to zero hit points while concentrating on a spell you gain Temporary HP equal to the spells level plus your spellcasting ability modifier.

    Spoiler: Design Thoughts
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    Boosting Concentration and Resiliency. With concentration I considered having it be something else like a DC reduction but I think this is the simplest way. I considered having it add proficiency but that would be adding proficiency twice which doesn't work. Expertise in concentration saving throws just sounds awkward as well.

    For HP I didn't want to duplicate what draconic sorcerers get but still wanted a little more hp. If you have any better suggestions for increasing HP as a class feature without stepping on draconic sorcs toes, I'm all ears.



    Bonus Proficiencies
    At first level you gain proficiency with medium armor, shields, and a single martial weapon that lacks the heavy or special properties. This weapon can be used as a spellcasting focus.

    Spoiler: Design Thoughts
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    Medium armor and shields allows this to not be quite as squishy as it might be otherwise. The way I've worded the spellcasting focus and weapon pieces are meant to discourage using GWM on this class, especially with a paladin dip. (Though i don't allow homebrew material to multiclass I'm still trying to keep it in consideration)



    Extra Attack
    Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Spoiler: Design Thoughts
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    Primary analog to bladesinger and valor bard.



    Ghost Step
    Starting at 14th level when you hit with a melee weapon attack, you can move up to 10 feet through the ethereal plane to an unoccupied location.

    Spoiler: Design Thoughts
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    Nearly all of the sorcerer subclasses give some kind of movement bonus at this level, I wanted it to be constant but adding flight seemed out of theme and full teleportation massively stepped on shadows toes. This seems like a good balance but might be a little weak.



    Heroic Onslaught
    Starting at 18th level when you reduce an enemy to 0 hp you can spend 1 sorcery point to use your ghost step and immediately make an additional attack as part of the same attack action. You can do this a maximum of three times per turn.

    Spoiler: Heroic Onslaught Design Thoughts
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    Originally I didn't have a restriction on the amount of times it could be used which seemed broken. The three restriction I pulled from nowhere but it felt right.


    Spoiler: Personal house rule additional spells known.
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    Additional Spells Known.
    Due to a large amount of comments I saw about sorcerer spells known, being an issue for players; I give my players 1 additional spell known at the first five spell levels.

    1st: Armor of Agathys
    3rd: Branding Smite
    5th: Haste
    7th: Death Ward
    9th: Hold Monster


    Last edited by th3g0dc0mp13x; 2019-02-25 at 05:50 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    nickl_2000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heroic Bloodline Sorcerer Balancing

    Battlefield Presence - This one problem I see here is the common one you get when you get something for killing something. There needs to be an agreement at the table not to use the bag of rats method. As long as everyone is comfortable with it only functioning in "real" combat. It should be good.

    Although, I did notice that there is a limited amount of spells where a sorcerer can target self when you are levels 1 and 2. So, it is something to watch for. At later levels you have shadow blade, greater invisibility, and haste. So you are good at that point.

    Bonus Proficiencies - I'm not sure how I feel about giving a sorcerer medium armor. I wouldn't mind seeing this as light and shields or medium and no shields. This may be personal bias against spell casters being really good in melee though (so take it with a grain of salt). One definite oddity is that you get medium armor prof, but as a sorcerer you don't already have light armor Prof. So, you can wear medium but not light. Is that intended?

    Extra Attack - Sure, its a melee sorcerer. Pretty standard

    Ghost Step - Is this free? A bonus action? Does it use movement? Does it provoke AoOs? This just needs a little more spelled out.

    Heroic Onslaught - This is pretty powerful, although at level 18 it should be. I tend to give a lot of leniency to a capstone since they are rarely ever reached. Also, at level 18 you aren't going to be carving through small mooks enough that you would get to do this 3 times in a turn often.



    Overall impressions. This is a really, really powerful dip class as you have it, I would put it on par with hexblade (especially for picking up BB/GFB and shield on a bard/ranger/paladin). You would need to watch out for that in a home game. Also, there will very rarely be a time when a PC isn't using shadow blade with this subclass. I'm assuming that this in intended, but it may still end up being a pretty powerful combination. It's just something to watch out for. The other thing that I notice here is that every single ability is combat focused. I don't see a single ability here that is not combat focused.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Heroic Bloodline Sorcerer Balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Battlefield Presence - This one problem I see here is the common one you get when you get something for killing something. There needs to be an agreement at the table not to use the bag of rats method. As long as everyone is comfortable with it only functioning in "real" combat. It should be good.

    Although, I did notice that there is a limited amount of spells where a sorcerer can target self when you are levels 1 and 2. So, it is something to watch for. At later levels you have shadow blade, greater invisibility, and haste. So you are good at that point.

    Bonus Proficiencies - I'm not sure how I feel about giving a sorcerer medium armor. I wouldn't mind seeing this as light and shields or medium and no shields. This may be personal bias against spell casters being really good in melee though (so take it with a grain of salt). One definite oddity is that you get medium armor prof, but as a sorcerer you don't already have light armor Prof. So, you can wear medium but not light. Is that intended?

    Extra Attack - Sure, its a melee sorcerer. Pretty standard

    Ghost Step - Is this free? A bonus action? Does it use movement? Does it provoke AoOs? This just needs a little more spelled out.

    Heroic Onslaught - This is pretty powerful, although at level 18 it should be. I tend to give a lot of leniency to a capstone since they are rarely ever reached. Also, at level 18 you aren't going to be carving through small mooks enough that you would get to do this 3 times in a turn often.



    Overall impressions. This is a really, really powerful dip class as you have it, I would put it on par with hexblade (especially for picking up BB/GFB and shield on a bard/ranger/paladin). You would need to watch out for that in a home game. Also, there will very rarely be a time when a PC isn't using shadow blade with this subclass. I'm assuming that this in intended, but it may still end up being a pretty powerful combination. It's just something to watch out for. The other thing that I notice here is that every single ability is combat focused. I don't see a single ability here that is not combat focused.
    Thanks for the feedback nickl_2000. I think the best way to prevent the great dip issue is to make the concentration ability only work for your sorcerer spells. I'm going to remove the temp HP ability and make the additional spells known a part of the subclass rather then houserule, taking the issue with self concentration spells I'll switch out Armor of Agathys for Heroism. That synergises with the Concentration ability pretty well and also gives more survivability at early levels.


    For the proficiencies, I originally stole from the Valor Bard but only read the subclass ability, I forgot that they already have light armor, I'll update the description there. I think that you're correct in only allowing medium or shields. I'll go for medium armor with no shield. I also think I'm being too restrictive in the weapon choice. If they really want to spec for GWM and be MAD, then more power to them.


    For Ghost step I wanted it to be basically free, Looking over the wording I feel like the whole etherealness piece is just overly complicating the ability. I'm thinking this instead:
    Ghost Step: Starting at 14th level, Immediatly after you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.


    Heroic Onslaught: I've been thinking about it and you're absolutely right this won't get used very much which honestly sucks. It's also now to the point where you can cast a high level spell nearly every fight. I want something that would be good but not absolutely broken. I also don't want to just copy from another class.


    Spoiler: Current Version
    Show

    Battlefield Presence
    At first level, While you are concentrating on a Sorcerer spell that targets you; you gain a bonus to concentration saving throws equal to the spells level.

    In addition you gain additional spells known. At each indicated sorcerer level, add the listed spells to your spells known. They do not count towards your spells known limit and they count as sorcerer spells for you.


    1st: Heroism
    3rd: Shadow Blade
    5th: Haste
    7th: Shadow of Moil
    9th: Holy weapon

    Bonus Proficiencies
    At first level you gain proficiency with light armor, medium armor, and martial weapons.

    Extra Attack
    Beginning at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Ghost Step
    Starting at 14th level, Immediatly after you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.

    Heroic Onslaught
    Starting at 18th level when you reduce an enemy to 0 hp you can spend 1 sorcery point to use your ghost step and immediately make an additional attack as part of the same attack action. You can do this a maximum of three times per turn.






  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    nickl_2000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Heroic Bloodline Sorcerer Balancing

    Between the changes to battlefield presence and the Profs, I think that does a much better job of balancing the subclass as a multiclass. I honestly don't see an issue with a sorcerer using a heavy weapon. They will need to invest in Charisma, Strength, Dex, and Con, that's pretty rough (or multiclass into something that has heavy armor and then they would get it anyways. Giving more weapon options allows the character to develop more in the campaign as they find special and magical items.

    Ghost Step - Yup, this is much better written mechanically now. A teleport doesn't cause AoOs so it makes a lot more sense.

    As for you level 18 ability, a few interesting ideas that come up in my mind.

    Explosive Last Stand - As an action you may burn all your remaining spell points to create an explosion of arcane energy. Does 1d8 force damage for each spell point used to all creatures in a 30 foot radius circle centered on you. After you do this, you gain 1 level of exhaustion.
    -This feels like the heroic last stand, where the hero is using every little bit of themselves left to do it. If you don't like the exhaustion effect, making the PC pass out afterwards for 30 minutes would be very thematic as well.

    Channel the powers of old For 1 minute you can channel the power of old, where any time you do damage you can add an additional 1d6 radiant/necrotic damage.

    Although I really like the Explosive Last Stand power.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Heroic Bloodline Sorcerer Balancing

    I was thinking about what I want from the class, I kind of want it to have the ability to create a shift in the tides of opinion, whether on a battlefield or in a court. I don't think anything else in the game allows for both charmed and frightened to happen at the same time.

    Spoiler: Stem the Tide
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    Stem the Tide.

    At 18th level you gain the ability to channel your heroism, As an action, you can spend 5 sorcery points to draw on this power, each creature of your choice within 60' must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be charmed and frightened of you for 1 hour. As an action, a creature can make a Wisdom check against your spell save DC to steel its resolve and end this effect. In addition anytime a creature takes damage it can make a new wisdom saving throw to end the effect.

    Possible alternative

    Spoiler: Hold the Line
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    Hold the Line

    At 18th level you gain the ability to imbue your allies with your power, As an action, you can spend 5 sorcery points to draw on this power, each creature of your choice within 60' gains the effects of the heroism spell for 1 minute. You can spend additional sorcery points to enhance the effect. For every two additional sorcery points you spend the temporary hp provided by the spell is increased by 1.

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