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Thread: Beguiler Help
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2007-09-28, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Beguiler Help
Gaming board people, i beseech you, help me again. originally, you helped me with TOB. now, i ask if thou would help me with my Beguiler. currently, we are second level, i have conceal spellcasting skill trick... We can use Completes, Core, phb II cept rebuild. Any ideas? i want to have Master of Masks, but i dont know if that is feasible (8 ranks in a cross class)
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...Then he had a Sandwich craving.
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2007-09-28, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
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Re: Beguiler Help
Okay, the first thing you need to understand, here, is that taking Master of Masks is like hitting yourself in the groin with a hammer. A BIG hammer.
The "flavor!" excuse doesn't fly here, either, unless you really specifically want the flavor of "a guy who gets special abilities by putting on some magical masks" ... which is lame, and besides, if you REALLY want that, just use Chameleon and roleplay the masks.
Beguiler 20 and Beguiler 19/Mindbender 1 are both perfectly solid for their entire careers.
Since you're 2nd level, you've already picked your first-level feat (feats, if you're human). Otherwise, good choices would've been, say, Fey Heritage, Fey Skin, and then Fey Power at third level, getting you DR 2/cold iron and then 3/ cold iron and +1 on Enchantment DCs. As is, just take Spell Focus: Illusion, Spell Focus: Enchantment, and the Greater Spell Focuses.
Conceal Spellcasting is a great skill trick. Pick up False Theurgy next, and eventually Swift Concentration.
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2007-09-28, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Beguiler Help
I wouldn't take the Faerie feats myself, because there's easier ways of upping your enchantment DCs, but that's a matter of taste.
Good beguiler feats include Unsettling Enchantment, Arcane Disciple, Improved Initiative, Face Changer, Arcane Disciple, and some metamagic feats. You could do things with bluff and cloaked casting instead, but that ability isn't really all that effective.
Good items include a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, and the Veil of Allure from sandstorm.
Good presclasses include the Fatespinner, Unseen Seer, Mindbender, Nightmare Spinner, and possibly Rainbow Servant.
HTH!Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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2007-09-28, 04:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- The Rhine
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Re: Beguiler Help
Sure, there are. But ROL's way, you cover something you were going to do anyway (get an Enchantment DC boost) and get DR/cold iron on top of that, which can be a lifesaver in the early levels and handy later on. I've done this with a couple of beguilers, and the DR really was a lifesaver occasionally.
Good beguiler feats include Unsettling Enchantment, Arcane Disciple, Improved Initiative, Face Changer, Arcane Disciple, and some metamagic feats.
Arcane Disciple requires too much WIS investment to be really worth it unless you rolled several good scores and can afford to spare one.
Face Changer is a waste of time, given that you can cast Disguise Self spontaneously, buy a Hat of Disguise... or just be a Changeling.
Most metamagic isn't that useful. Heighten should be picked up eventually, and maybe Twin or Rapid Metamagic + Quicken. Extend is useful, but covering it with lesser rods and such is fine.
You could do things with bluff and cloaked casting instead, but that ability isn't really all that effective.
Good items include a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, and the Veil of Allure from sandstorm.
Good presclasses include the Fatespinner, Unseen Seer, Mindbender, Nightmare Spinner, and possibly Rainbow Servant.
HTH!
Fatespinner, Nightmare Spinner, and Rainbow Servant are bad PrCs because they don't let you keep your skills up; the beguiler fills the skillmonkey role, and losing your skills more or less kills it.
Mindbender is great as a 1-level dip (which, incidentally, delays your second Advanced Learning so you can snag a 4th-level spell with it; take Shadow Conjuration), but terrible for more than that.
Unseen Seer gives you skills, but isn't really worth it; you have no sneak attack to advance (and no good way to use it anyway), the skill list is different, and it has prerequisites you might not otherwise take. Its abilities are OK, but not really better than the Beguiler's.Last edited by Rachel Lorelei; 2007-09-28 at 04:22 AM.
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2007-09-28, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Beguiler Help
Shadowcraft Mage is pretty much the ultimate Beguiler PrC, but that requires you to be a gnome (or having an understanding DM), plus you need to be able to use Races Of Stone.
Mindbender is a good PrC to dip into for a single level, but you'll probably regret it at level 20, when the pure beguiler is able to completely bypass SR if he catches the opponent flat-footed (which given your spells and abilities, shouldn't be hard to achieve).
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2007-09-28, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Beguiler Help
Well, you do have listen/sense/spot as class skills, so a wis boost doesn't hurt. And upping your will save isn't bad either, even if it's already strong. AD is pretty much the only way to increase your spell list, and you can get some awesome spells that way.
Fatespinner, Nightmare Spinner, and Rainbow Servant are bad PrCs because they don't let you keep your skills up; the beguiler fills the skillmonkey role, and losing your skills more or less kills it.
Of course, a beguiler doesn't particularly need presclasses, B/20 is a solid build.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2007-09-28, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Beguiler Help
so... where is Rainbow servant. Also, i am True Neutral, so if any of this needs alignment stuff, keep that in mind. i am a gnome, but Races of is not availible at this time, though my DM may open it later. as said gnome, i get a +1 to Illusion normally, and i already have Spell Focus Enchantment. So, master of masks isnt great. ill keep that in mind, especially seeing as to how i wasnt really set anyway..
Yes, That is a Floating Psionic Sandwich. Kyace Stylized it.
...Then he had a Sandwich craving.
Spoiler
This AWESOME Warlock provided by...Goblin Music
SpoilerOther Avatars
Bard By Djinn_In_Tonic. Warlock By Ceika. Sandwich by Kyace.