Villainous Competition XXXI: In Cold Blood

[jdizzlean]

Welcome to Round 30 of the Villainous Competition!

Previous Competitions

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Round One: Leader of Armies
Round Two: Nature's Revenger
Round Three: Double Agent
Round Four: Grave Keeper
Round Five: Crime Lord
Round Six: Ultimate Predator
Round Seven: Wicked Witch
Round Eight: Master of the Tundra
Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking
Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too
Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall
Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price
Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman
Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be
Round Fifteen: The Horsemen Are Drawing Nearer
Round Sixteen: Burn Baby Burn
Round Seventeen: It's Alive!
Round Eighteen: This is Heresy
Round Nineteen: He Slimed Me!
Round Twenty: Elder Evil
Round Twenty-One: Yarr!
Round Twenty-Two: I Am The Night!
Round Twenty-Three: Two Heads Are Better Than One!
Round Twenty-Four: Wrong For The Right Reasons!
Round Twenty-Five: Keeper of the Gate
Round Twenty-Six: Get In MY BELLY (Swallow Whole)
Round Twenty-Seven: Multiple Personality Disorder
Round Twenty-Eight: Tiny Only!
Round Twenty-Nine: Halloween Special
Round Thirty: One Feat to Rule Them ALL

We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

Contestants:
You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15 CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Secret Laboratory:
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. Leadership and all similar abilities are banned for sanity reasons.
Builds that are fully monstrous are allowed at no penalty. All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels.

Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is the assumed ability score generation method.
Some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats as soon as their ECL is over 20. While regular Epic feats will be allowed, Epic Spellcasting and all other Epic feats that affect spells, psionic powers, or item creation are not permitted. Including these would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. For Incarnum characters, Epic Open Chakra feats are allowed; other Epic Incarnum feats are not. The Essentia Capacity increases for Epic capacity as described on p. 212. For all characters, please note that Racial Hit Dice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

Deadlines:
Contestants will have until 23:59 MST Saturday March 30th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 MST Saturday April 13th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.

Judging:
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.
Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
Originality - Is it unexpected?
Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the BBEG players long to finally kill and then talk about for weeks?
Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 1 if it makes the field unfair.)
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
You may not judge if you entered the contest, unless you withdraw your submission.

Presentation:
Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Note:
There is now a hard limit on two (2) entries per competitor.

Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.

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CR	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
2	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
3	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
4	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
5	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
6	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
7	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
8	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
9	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
10	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
11	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
12	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
13	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
14	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
15	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
16	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
17	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
18	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
19	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
20	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

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[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]CR[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

You can use the table below for Spells.

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Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level	0lvl	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th
1st	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
2nd	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
3rd	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
4th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
5th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
6th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
7th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
8th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
9th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
10th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
11th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
12th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
13th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
14th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
15th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
16th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
17th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
18th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
19th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
20th	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Code Immediately Below,

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[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Speculation:
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.

Get ready to share those Evil thoughts. This edition’s villain is:

In Cold Blood!
Dragons/Reptiles Galore!!

Limitations

• Only PrC’s, Classes, Races, Feats, and Books (or other sources) that have the words “Dragon, Wrym, Drake, Reptile, Snake, etc (or any other kind of scaly lizard/reptile/snake like beastie) in the title/sub title/description are allowed
• Races must contain one of the above in name, type, or subtype
  -If a creature is clearly one of the above, such as a cobra, but doesn’t explicitly state “snake” in its name/type/subtype, this is obviously still allowed as a racial option (because it would simply be an animal or other type)
• Draconomicon is allowed
• Dungeons and Dragons on the cover does not qualify a source
• CAN use PHB 1&2, Monster Manuals 1-5, and DMG 1 & 2
• Only Draconic or General Feats allowed
  Unless those feats are from the PHB 1-2, MM 1-5, or DMG 1-2

We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.
So, start your evil plotting!

Entry	Creator	Lionheart's Score	ben-zayb's Score	Total	Rank
Vaakvaal	Falontani	12.00	15.00	27.00	1st
Destroyer-of-Mirrors	TwoLegsArmchair	11.50	13.00	24.50	2nd
Lord Rust	GrayDeath	11.50	12.50	24.00	3rd

Submission:
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:

PM: Jdizzlean
Subject: Villainous Competition 31, Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
More questions? PM me with Villainous Competition 31 Questions in the header.

Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:

- Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
- Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
- Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
- DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
- Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
- Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10

As always: let's keep it nice.

I'll mention that again - LET'S KEEP IT NICE! Bickering, name calling and nasty comments on the entries or other forum members are not tolerated.

New competition rule: if I feel an individual has been overly disruptive during the course of competition discussion, I will not be accepting and revealing any entries from that individual, and they will also not be allowed to judge. Any judging they enter will not be taken into account for the final tally.

Spoiler

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It's sad that it had to come to this, but here's a list of permanently banned (from this Villainous Competition) members:

Novolin
Yklikt

[jdizzlean]

Clarifications

Once again, there is what appears to be a debate as to the limitations for this round. To spare myself countless edits to the main posts, PLEASE READ THE THREAD prior to starting your build, not just the first post... There are some clarifications posted Here and Here.
and Here...

Unearthed Arcana variant rules are limited: The variant character options (such as Wildshape Ranger and Thug Fighter) should not be penalized. Flaws and traits may be penalized by judges, whereas item familiars, gestalt, alternate skill systems, alternate magic systems, alternate crafting rules, generic base classes, LA buyoff, fractional saves/BAB, and bloodlines are banned. Anything not mentioned here is up to individual judges.

d20 Rokugan is not allowed material.

The Dragon Magazine update for Oriental Adventures is in use.

Leadership is banned. Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.

However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.

On the subject of messaging the chair (me), a few guidelines:
- I am not here to give critiques on your build or guess how the judges might score it!
- For entries, please keep the entry to no more than 2 message, if at all possible.
- For entries, don't expect me to search through your entry and edit in or out material. Entries should be sent to me complete - if there is a later revision, re-submit the full build. PLEASE DON'T INCLUDE TEXT IN YOUR SUBMISSION YOU WANT ME TO EDIT OUT FOR THE POST - SUBMIT IT TO ME EXACTLY HOW I WILL POST THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
- Please make sure the name of your entry is clearly present in the message.

-This space reserved for an appropriate image to be applied later-


Everyone, have fun!

[Thurbane]

Hmm, I did have a build in mind for a Cold Blood theme, but the extra stipulations will mean a return to the drawing board.

Definitely in to cook: reptilians are my favorite bad guys in all the games I DM.

[jdizzlean]

Hmm, I did have a build in mind for a Cold Blood theme, but the extra stipulations will mean a return to the drawing board.

Definitely in to cook: reptilians are my favorite bad guys in all the games I DM.

I'm glad i could trip you up considering this is the round you requested after judging a while back :)


plus, this could double as the kaiju round folks have been asking for

[GrayDeath]

Hmmmm, got an Idea. Wont be able to check if its valid till the weekend, but if it is, the build is mostly done already. ;)

[remetagross]

Limitations

• Draconomicon is allowed
• Dungeons and Dragons on the cover does not qualify a source
• CAN use PHB 1&2, Monster Manuals 1-5, and DMG 1 & 2

I'm not sure I've understood that limitation properly. Why would Draconomicon otherwise be barred? What sources are not automatically included by the fact that they have "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover?

Limitations

• Only Draconic or General Feats allowed
  Unless those feats are from the PHB 1-2, MM 1-5, or DMG 1-2

What is a "General" feat for this purpose? Is it a feat which has no descriptors at all? What if a feat has [Draconic] as well as, say, [Metamagic]?

Thanks chairman! These limitations are sometimes a little confusing!

[jdizzlean]

I'm not sure I've understood that limitation properly. Why would Draconomicon otherwise be barred? What sources are not automatically included by the fact that they have "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover?



What is a "General" feat for this purpose? Is it a feat which has no descriptors at all? What if a feat has [Draconic] as well as, say, [Metamagic]?

Thanks chairman! These limitations are sometimes a little confusing!

1. draco (to me at least) seems like an obvious inclusion in

the words “Dragon, Wrym, Drake, Reptile, Snake, etc (or any other kind of scaly lizard/reptile/snake like beastie) in the title/sub title/description are allowed

however i know folks like to pick the limitations apart, so i included that it's ok as it relates to dragons after all.

as an example of "Dungeons and Dragons" being on the cover, but not being a qualified source, consider TOme of Battle. Unless the class/feat/prc/other build function also likewise had the above clarifying words in it, you can't use Tome of Battle at all. The same would go for every other source out there.

2. if you look in the PHB for example, there is a rather large list of "general feats" on page 90. this precludes things like psionic feats, reserve feats, monstrous feats, etc etc UNLESS they also contain the above descriptors, or come from one of the allowed sources or allowed sources that contain those same descriptors in their title such as "Races of the Dragon". A Draconic feat is an obvious reference to a dragon, which is an allowed descriptor and would be ok. Metamagic feats would have to either come from an allowed source, or have an allowed descriptor in their name.

an example of some feats that would have 1 of those descriptors: Dragonwrought, or Gape of the Serpent.


and no problem, i realize that my limitations are generally a bit more convoluted than what was the norm before i took over, my intent is simply to force you to think outside the proverbial box and get a little more creative.

[Lionheart]

Got an idea cooking already ;)

[Falontani]

alright, so let me get this straight.

PHB, PHB2, MM 1-5, DMG, and DMG 2 are the only books that are allowed to be used.

From all other core books whatever ability/feat/class/etc that we would like to use must have one of the following words, "Dragon, Wrym, Drake, Reptile, Snake, etc (or any other kind of scaly lizard/reptile/snake like beastie)" are allowed.

So this allows: Races of the Dragon, Dragon Magic, Draconimonicon, and any other book with the allotted words in the title, while also allowing feats from books without it in the title like Gape of the Serpent (because it has Serpent) from Savage Species.

Very interesting. I am in to cook, although this will be... interesting.

[remetagross]

Ok, thanks for the clarification so Serpent Kingdoms is in as well? I guess "Dragon Magazine" is still out though

[ben-zayb]

Let's compile the valid sources:

• Draconomicon
• Dragon Compendium (but not Dragon Magazine)
• Dragon Magic
• Dragonmarked (Eberron)
• Dragons of Eberron
• Dragons of Faerun, including the web enhancement
• DMG and DMG II
• MM I-V
• PHB and PHB II
• Races of the Dragon
• Serpent Kingdoms (FR)

Fun Fact Into the Dragon's Lair (FR 3.0) and Voyage of the Golden Dragon (Eberron) are adventure modules with "Dragon" in their name

The individual feats, PrCs, etc. outside those sources, though, I leave to the chefs.

[PrismCat21]

To the Chair
The limitations are confusing and I don't want to deal with it as it is now.
They need to be reworded to make them more clear.

You've somewhat clarified your limitations in a post later in the thread. Those rough clarifications need to be edited into the opening post.

[WhamBamSam]

I think Draconomicon actually says that Dragons are warm blooded, but whatever. I'm down.

EDIT: If an allowed book references a book outside of the list of allowed sources is that legal? For example, do Gem Dragons manifest per the instructions if you use XPH, or cast as Sorcerers for this competition?

[Falontani]

If an allowed book references a book outside of the list of allowed sources is that legal? For example, do Gem Dragons manifest per the instructions if you use XPH, or cast as Sorcerers for this competition?

Also: spells/powers. Obviously we have the ones from the listed books, but if we break into gem Dragon and psionics in general (or incarnum with the incarnum Dragon, or maneuvers with Wyrm of War, etc) can we use the material needed (ie xph powers, soulmelds from moi, or maneuvers from tob from my examples)

trying to be inclusive with my examples so as to not specifically call out a Build someone may use

[Segev]

Given the existence of Draconic bloodlines, I'm surprised bloodlines are entirely banned.

[WhamBamSam]

Also: spells/powers. Obviously we have the ones from the listed books, but if we break into gem Dragon and psionics in general (or incarnum with the incarnum Dragon, or maneuvers with Wyrm of War, etc) can we use the material needed (ie xph powers, soulmelds from moi, or maneuvers from tob from my examples)

trying to be inclusive with my examples so as to not specifically call out a Build someone may use

I suspect that the Incarnum Dragon is just banned and we can't use spells from disallowed sources. In cases like the Gem Dragon or the ToB variant Wyrm of War, we might get access to powers from XPH, and Tiger Claw maneuvers from ToB respectively.

[Thurbane]

So, maybe I'm misreading, but there's a set list of books? Because the wording "Can use" and "is allowed" is confusing me a bit.

I'm going to be honest: the restrictions on this round are doing my head in, and not in a good way. Maybe it's just me.

[jdizzlean]

.

PHB, PHB2, MM 1-5, DMG, and DMG 2 are the only books that are allowed to be used.

From all other core books whatever ability/feat/class/etc that we would like to use must have one of the following words, "Dragon, Wrym, Drake, Reptile, Snake, etc (or any other kind of scaly lizard/reptile/snake like beastie)" are allowed.

So this allows: Races of the Dragon, Dragon Magic, Draconimonicon, and any other book with the allotted words in the title, while also allowing feats from books without it in the title like Gape of the Serpent (because it has Serpent) from Savage Species.

Very interesting. I am in to cook, although this will be... interesting.

No. Those books are explicitly called out as options beyond the "must have this in the title" in order to give you options. You can use anything from those books as if they explicitly had one of the qualifying descriptors in their title.

Let's compile the valid sources:

• Draconomicon
• Dragon Compendium (but not Dragon Magazine)
• Dragon Magic
• Dragonmarked (Eberron)
• Dragons of Eberron
• Dragons of Faerun, including the web enhancement
• DMG and DMG II
• MM I-V
• PHB and PHB II
• Races of the Dragon
• Serpent Kingdoms (FR)

Fun Fact Into the Dragon's Lair (FR 3.0) and Voyage of the Golden Dragon (Eberron) are adventure modules with "Dragon" in their name

The individual feats, PrCs, etc. outside those sources, though, I leave to the chefs.

EDIT: If an allowed book references a book outside of the list of allowed sources is that legal? For example, do Gem Dragons manifest per the instructions if you use XPH, or cast as Sorcerers for this competition?

Also: spells/powers. Obviously we have the ones from the listed books, but if we break into gem Dragon and psionics in general (or incarnum with the incarnum Dragon, or maneuvers with Wyrm of War, etc) can we use the material needed (ie xph powers, soulmelds from moi, or maneuvers from tob from my examples)

trying to be inclusive with my examples so as to not specifically call out a Build someone may use

A gem dragon would qualify as a legal option regardless of what book you pulled it from, because it has one of the qualifying descriptors in it's entry title "dragon". Whichever book you're pulling it from would have the rules as to what you're using, either manifesting, maneuvers or spells.


as long as a source is otherwise legal for the normal competition you can use it in this round. Dragon magazine, despite 1) not being a book, and 2) still banned from competition, is still not a valid source simply because it has the descriptor "Dragon" in it's title line.


@Prism, 2nd post updated.

[WhamBamSam]

A gem dragon would qualify as a legal option regardless of what book you pulled it from, because it has one of the qualifying descriptors in it's entry title "dragon". Whichever book you're pulling it from would have the rules as to what you're using, either manifesting, maneuvers or spells.

I understand that Gem Dragons are legal. But they say that they cast as Sorcerers unless you use XPH, in which case they manifest as Cha-based Psions with various primary disciplines. My question is whether they cast as Sorcerers for this competitions or if they can use XPH. I assume probably the former (and similarly that the maneuver variant Wyrm of War in Dragons of Eberron is non-kosher), but wanted clarification.

[jdizzlean]

I understand that Gem Dragons are legal. But they say that they cast as Sorcerers unless you use XPH, in which case they manifest as Cha-based Psions with various primary disciplines. My question is whether they cast as Sorcerers for this competitions or if they can use XPH. I assume probably the former (and similarly that the maneuver variant Wyrm of War in Dragons of Eberron is non-kosher), but wanted clarification.

i would go w/ the former (cast as sorc), however wrym of war would be on the table, simply because both Dragons of Eberron is a valid source, as well as Wrym refers to dragons/snakes in the first place

[PrismCat21]

@Prism, 2nd post updated.

So... everyone else has to do more work by searching the thread to see all the changes, edits, retractions, re-edits, future rules, and anything else that they might have been missed, simply because you don't feel like editing the designated section you specifically made for your own special rules? A simple rephrasing would do wonders...

I can't say I'm the least bit surprised.

[AvatarVecna]

I intend to do a total joke build and then judge everybody's, giving myself a zero for cheating by judging my own entry.

[jdizzlean]

So... everyone else has to do more work by searching the thread to see all the changes, edits, retractions, re-edits, future rules, and anything else that they might have been missed, simply because you don't feel like editing the designated section you specifically made for your own special rules? A simple rephrasing would do wonders...

I can't say I'm the least bit surprised.

maybe i'm getting burned out on chairing, but it seems to me that i could make a round that simply said "build anything" w/ zero limitations, and we'd still have a 2 page discussion as to what qualified as anything. Likewise, having to constantly edit the OP after EVERY SINGLE POST on here gets tedious pretty quickly.

I'm all for discussion on things, but i really hate how every single thing on this board gets constantly ripped to shreds. plus, we're at what, 20 posts? if you can't read 20 posts, then maybe there's bigger issues at work here than me not wanting to constantly revise things. We always tell people to do your build, make your justifications to the judge and go from there, but you seem to want me to set down ironclad rulings for you to operate within that guarantee you a max score. It's not going to happen.

Plus, i'm going to rephrase it for you, then someone else is going to post how it doesn't make sense to them, and they're going to want it rephrased. It never ends. Have some flexibility.

I'm done ranting.

I truly do want to work with everyone, but more often than not I feel like I'm just getting whipped for trying, and it's not fun at all.

[Thurbane]

I truly do want to work with everyone, but more often than not I feel like I'm just getting whipped for trying, and it's not fun at all.

I know the feeling. Part of the reason I stepped down as chair.

I hope my post wasn't too confrontational, but I was honestly just a bit confused by some of the reqs for this round...

[AvatarVecna]

maybe i'm getting burned out on chairing, but it seems to me that i could make a round that simply said "build anything" w/ zero limitations, and we'd still have a 2 page discussion as to what qualified as anything. Likewise, having to constantly edit the OP after EVERY SINGLE POST on here gets tedious pretty quickly.

I'm all for discussion on things, but i really hate how every single thing on this board gets constantly ripped to shreds. plus, we're at what, 20 posts? if you can't read 20 posts, then maybe there's bigger issues at work here than me not wanting to constantly revise things. We always tell people to do your build, make your justifications to the judge and go from there, but you seem to want me to set down ironclad rulings for you to operate within that guarantee you a max score. It's not going to happen.

Plus, i'm going to rephrase it for you, then someone else is going to post how it doesn't make sense to them, and they're going to want it rephrased. It never ends. Have some flexibility.

I'm done ranting.

I truly do want to work with everyone, but more often than not I feel like I'm just getting whipped for trying, and it's not fun at all.

You have my sympathies. In one of the rounds I chaired, where I had made the Humanoid type off-limits, one of the participants fought tooth and nail with absolutely everybody that Humans weren't Humanoids in order to insist their entry was legal.

EDIT: I guess my point is that nitpicking is just kinda in the contest's blood, and it gets to us all.

[Falontani]

I personally only ask for clarification because one of the worst feelings I've had on this board was pouring hours of work into a build that for ripped apart and deemed illegal several times over. Undeterred and determined I continue to enter and hope to eventually get a gold, but that won't happen if I ignore the competition rules of the month (don't get me wrong, I love the obstacle thrown in the way. It makes it more difficult to find something that is my style but awesome). So I work towards clarity on my own part

[maxion]

And as I guess, feats that qualify for some dragon/snake PrCs don't suddenly become legal for this purpose?

[jdizzlean]

And as I guess, feats that qualify for some dragon/snake PrCs don't suddenly become legal for this purpose?

if you can find it in any of the allowed sources, it's fair game. otherwise it defaults to does it have one of those descriptors in it's name?

[GrayDeath]

OK, I only have one qiuestion so far, and to make it harder to guess my build I am going to formulate it as general as possible.

Say there are certain "normal Rules" someone HAS to follow if levelling up one of the specifically legal Creatures in your post. But other sources specifically allowed (say, for example, feats whose name fit) would allow to circumvent that.
But your Creature would normally not (outside of Stupidd RAW for RAW`s sake arguments and/or Mature Stinson Cheese) qualify for those.

Can we still take them this round?




And on a general Note. I REALLY enjoy these "limited" Rounds much more than the normal ones. WHy? Because they make the contest more unique than Optimize within a vague Theme", which in turn is already better than "optimize the heck out of anything" ^^

So pelase dont feel discouraged. At least some of us really apreciate the work youa re doing. Just try to make the actual rule section a bit clearer and I guess all will be happy. :)

[jdizzlean]

i would say that that sounds like a perfectly reasonable application of the limitations and that you could in fact do that.


and thank you, it's nice to hear once in awhile :D

the hard part of course is that i can't send the limitations i have written up to anyone to "proof" ahead of time for clarity (unless in a very rare example someone had volunteered to judge ahead of time the next round.. however once i sent them those limitations to review, they'd also have to be barred from entering later if they so chose to, it's a catch 22). when i read them, it makes total sense, but that of course is just author's prerogative. and i realize this is the internet, but i'm uncomfortable (unless i'm attacking someone) in "talking down" to people by directly dumbing content down.

oh well, live and learn.