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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! It's time for another one of our special "high-originality" rounds where we use an ingredient that's actually good but then make everyone work harder to stand out from the pack, so please PAY ATTENTION TO HOW WE'RE HANDLING SCORING THIS TIME!

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in three categories: Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient, and on a 1-10 point scale in Originality. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 9 on Wednesday, Mar 20, 2019 (1:59 AM GMT on Thursday, Mar 21). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent oneóI'll do my best, anyway. Judging is then encouraged to go as quickly as possible; if multiple judges volunteer, we'll set about a two-week window, but if we only get one judge, we'll try to wrap up as soon as possible after that judge presents scores. (I will admit that the deadline time may not be an exact science, but don't hide from me and we'll probably be cool.)
    • Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.

      Spoiler: Let's talk about sources
      Show

      • ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
      • ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
      • ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
      • ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
      • NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
      • ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
      • ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
      • NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
      • ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
      • ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

      If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.
    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone.
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [tr]
      [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]1st[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]2nd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]3rd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]4th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]5th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]6th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr][/table]
    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat).
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5 (except in Originality for these special high-originality rounds, where the max score in Originality is 10). Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
      Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.



    This round's secret ingredient:
    the SORCERER, from the Player's Handbook (and the SRD)!

    Allez Optimizer!

    The Builds:

    Name Alignment/Race Stub
    Unis Sobek Neithson ? Desert Kobold Sorcerer 5 / Sand Shaper 1
    Thrush ? Silverbrow Human Sorcerer 5 / Mage of the Arcane Order 1
    Sir Cohnium LN Warforged Sorcerer 6
    Klotto Rubiini Kosketti LN Frostblood Half-Orc Sorcerer 6
    Gobta ? Goblin Sorcerer 6
    Ekaterina Morovan d'Lyrandar LE Half-Elf Sorcerer 6
    Darkblood Malrell LG Illumian (Uurkrau) Sorcerer 5 / Mage of the Arcane Order 1


    Last edited by Zaq; 2019-03-21 at 01:36 AM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required.

    Recommendations:
    • Double-check ALL of your prereqs. Every single one. Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.
    • Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.
    • Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also insanely dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!
    • Be memorable. Remember that we're all using the same ingredient here. What makes you different?


    So let's talk about this round a bit. Remember that Originality is the biggest score this time around, so you really need to strive to stand out from all the other sorcerers running around! Of course, the other three categories combined are more than Originality is worth, so don't tank everything else entirely. Think about the choices you can make to differentiate yourself.

    I have a feeling that spell selection is going to more or less be the be-all and end-all, so it'll likely behoove you to really highlight exactly how you made your spell choices and exactly what you plan to do with said spells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Everyoneís down to cook with an ingredient thatís actually not bad, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKirah View Post
    What is this sorcerery??!!!?
    I think you need to be the ones to answer that question. Tell me, what sorcery IS this?
    Last edited by Zaq; 2019-03-07 at 12:34 AM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Hmm, this one's interesting, but the sorcerer's relatively tight build constraints for the stub is something I don't really like. Not sure if I'll be in to cook, but otherwise I'll judge.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    If a clean presentation is all you desire for the list of feats, try the Numbered List feature.

    1. feat1
    2. feat2
    3. feat3
    4. feat4
    5. feat5
    6. feat6
    7. feat7
    8. feat8
    9. feat9
    10. feat10

    Code:
    [LIST=1][*]feat1[*]feat2[*]feat3[*]feat4[*]feat5[*]feat6[*]feat7[*]feat8[*]feat9[*]feat10[/LIST]


    Question about timing: Daylight Savings begins in 3 days. Does this affect the deadline at all, or is it still that same time relative to GMT?
    Last edited by The Kool; 2019-03-07 at 08:32 AM.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    If a clean presentation is all you desire for the list of feats, try the Numbered List feature.

    1. feat1
    2. feat2
    3. feat3
    4. feat4
    5. feat5
    6. feat6
    7. feat7
    8. feat8
    9. feat9
    10. feat10

    Code:
    [LIST=1][*]feat1[*]feat2[*]feat3[*]feat4[*]feat5[*]feat6[*]feat7[*]feat8[*]feat9[*]feat10[/LIST]


    Question about timing: Daylight Savings begins in 3 days. Does this affect the deadline at all, or is it still that same time relative to GMT?
    Oh yeah, DST. Knew I was forgetting something. (My area doesnít observe DST, yísee.) Iíll update the OP.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Oh yeah, DST. Knew I was forgetting something. (My area doesnít observe DST, yísee.) Iíll update the OP.
    DST not observed but it still causes the time relative to GMT to change? I'm slightly confused... but as long as it's right then my confusion matters not. (Unless it's wrong, in which case I'm citing what the thread says!)
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    I'll be judging this one. I should have time a week or so after the reveal.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    To be honest, Iíve probably got the deadline time wrong. Itís intended to be about when I get off work that day, but I do tend to get confused when converting around GMT. Realistically, though? Maybe I shouldnít say this, but the chance that Iíll actually be free right then is extraordinarily small, so weíre not likely to need to be super precise about it.

    Tell ya what, everyoneóif it gets to be the day of the deadline and you think itís gonna come down to the wire, lemme know. I donít intend to really push out the actual deadline day as long as we have sufficient entries, but if it comes down to a question of hours, Iíll work with you. Donít abuse the privilege, but weíre all friends here. This is, right this second at least, easier than recalculating. No biggie.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    I think I have and idea I like. Definitely gonna give this 'sorcery' thing a shot!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Sweet, two entire class features

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Sweet, two entire class features
    I thought youíd like that! I mean, one of those features is the most powerful and versatile class feature in the PHB and arguably in the game.

    You also get spells!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Spellcasting is definitely not my area of expertise. Maybe I'll judge.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Spellcasting is definitely not my area of expertise. Maybe I'll judge.
    Neither is it mine, but I have an idea or two. I'm probably not going to let them cook as long as some people might, one of them is almost ready... I'll stew on the feats a while at least.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    So I'm new here, and while I don't expect to win, I'm interested in the practice (and building characters is fun). Are we using the suggested E6 feats (like the one that allows a fighter 6 to act as if he was BAB +8 for feats, or the one that allows bonus skill ranks), or are we sticking to E6 with only official feats?
    Last edited by Scrollreader; 2019-03-08 at 08:49 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrollreader View Post
    So I'm new here, and while I don't expect to win, I'm interested in the practice (and building characters is fun). Are we using the suggested E6 feats (like the one that allows a fighter 6 to act as if he was BAB +8 for feats, or the one that allows bonus skill ranks), or are we sticking to E6 with only official feats?
    Firstly, welcome welcome, I too am new and while my build isn't going to have the MOST POWAH, it should be able to hold it's own. Originality is king this round anyway, so go nuts, you might just surprise yourself.

    Secondly:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    ... I swear I read that whole post twice, and still somehow missed that. Thanks!

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by srd
    A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below).

    ...

    A sorcererís selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer canít use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.
    Zaq, can you give some guidance on whether sorcerers can deviate from the wizard list? It's cool if you leave it to judges, i totally understand that.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Zaq, can you give some guidance on whether sorcerers can deviate from the wizard list? It's cool if you leave it to judges, i totally understand that.
    As a judge, I will treat it as analagous to homebrew spell research (read: not legal for this competition) unless it is a Sorcerer spell (there are a few printed that are non-Wizard) or you have some feature that explicitly gives you access to it, unless Zaq explicitly rules that I shouldn't do that.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    As a judge, I will treat it as analagous to homebrew spell research (read: not legal for this competition) unless it is a Sorcerer spell (there are a few printed that are non-Wizard) or you have some feature that explicitly gives you access to it, unless Zaq explicitly rules that I shouldn't do that.
    Thanks wham

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    I agree with Sam. Spells learned by taking sorcerer levels (or levels that advance sorcerer casting) must be sorcerer spells unless you have a game element that explicitly states otherwise.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    my build is illegal, and has been deemed unwanted.

    I have 6 or so hours into it right now and will probably simply withdraw from this round rather than go with the only 1-2 other options that seem viable.

    i'll post what i have thus far after the reveal

    good luck to all
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quick weekend bump! Deadlineís on this coming Wednesday, just as stated in the OP. Still plenty of time to put something together if youíre interested!

    Iíve got a small number of entries, but I know we can get a few more before itís all said and done.

    Quick reminder to new entrants and old: please include your build name in the title of your PM (both when sending it to me and when sending in any disputes or updates), and please donít include any extra text in the PM for me to take out. I want to just copy and paste directly when it comes time for the reveal.

    If youíve already sent me your build and you didnít do either of these things, no worries this timeóyou donít need to resend it unless youíre actually updating anything. But itís good to keep in mind for the future! Means Iím less likely to flub the build name, less likely to attribute a build to the wrong chef, and less likely to accidentally include something in the build that shouldnít be included.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Deadlineís on this coming Wednesday, just as stated in the OP. Still plenty of time to put something together if youíre interested!

    Iíve got a small number of entries, but I know we can get a few more before itís all said and done.
    No! Shh! More entries will severely decrease my odds of placing!

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    I might still cook up a second entry. We'll see, if I don't have something in the works by Tuesday I'll just let it sit and move on to deciding if my idea for main ICO is worth an entry or if I should just judge it.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Final day, folks! Deadlineís when I get home tonight. Which will probably be really really late (in about 16 hours, in all likelihood), but I donít intend to add any more days at this point, so gimme your builds while you can! This will be a fun round.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Final day, folks! Deadlineís when I get home tonight. Which will probably be really really late (in about 16 hours, in all likelihood), but I donít intend to add any more days at this point, so gimme your builds while you can! This will be a fun round.
    Crud! I'm not going to be able to get my build done tonight (nor would a couple day's extension help, as i'm going on travel tomorrow). I may post my stub after the reveal, though maybe not as there may come another opportunity to use the main trick in the future.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XV)

    Pencils down, everyone! Builds incomingóbrace for impact!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Unis Sobek Neithson

    That opening quote kind of, uh, went places I wasn't immediately expecting. It's classy 'cuz it's historical!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unis Sobek Neithson
    "Unis is Sobek, green of plumage, with alert face and raised fore, the splashing one who came from the thigh and tail of the great goddess in the sunlight ... Unis has appeared as Sobek, Neith's son. Unis will eat with his mouth, Unis will urinate and Unis will copulate with his penis. Unis is lord of semen, who takes women from their husbands to the place Unis likes according to his heart's fancy."



    Desert Kobold Sorcerer 5 / Sand Shaper 1 (Greater Draconic Rite of Passage)



    "A god who lives on his fathers,
    who feeds on his mothers...
    Unas is the bull of heaven
    Who rages in his heart,
    Who lives on the being of every god,
    Who eats their entrails
    When they come, their bodies full of magic
    From the Isle of Flame..."



    Str: 8 (base) - 4 (race) = 4
    Dex: 12 (base) + 2 (race) = 12
    Con: 15 (base) + 1 (level) = 16
    Int: 12 (base) = 12
    Wis: 10 (base) - 2 (race) = 8
    Cha: 18 (base) =18

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Sorcerer (Dragonblood) +0 +0 +0 +2 Concentration 4, Knowledge (Nature) 2, Survival 2 Draconic Heritage (sand), Draconic Resistance Spellcasting
    2nd Sorcerer +1 +0 +0 +3 Concentration 5, Knowledge (Nature) 2.5, Survival 2.5 Spellcasting
    3rd Sorcerer +1 +1 +1 +3 Concentration 6, Knowledge (Nature) 3, Survival 3 Touchstone (City of the Dead) Spellcasting
    4th Sorcerer +2 +1 +1 +4 Concentration 7, Knowledge (Nature) 3.5, Survival 3.5 Spellcasting
    5th Sorcerer +2 +1 +1 +4 Concentration 8, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Survival 4 Spellcasting
    6th Sorcerer + Greater Draconic Rite of Passage +2 +1 +1 +6 Concentration 9, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Survival 4 Fiery Burst Spellcasting

    Epic Feats: Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative ... meh don't care

    Concentration: 9 (ranks) + 3 (ability)
    Diplomacy: 4 (ranks) + 4 (ability)
    Knowledge (Nature): 4 (ranks) + 1 (ability)
    Survival: 4 (ranks) - 1 (ability) +2 (racial)



    "Hail, daughter of Anubis, above the hatches of heaven,
    Comrade of Thoth, above the ladder's rails,
    Open Unas's path, let Unas pass!"



    Cantrips Known: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation

    1st-Level Spells Known: Bear's Endurance (Sand Shaper), Bull's Strength (Sand Shaper), Cat's Grace (Sand Shaper), Endure Elements (Sand Shaper), Mage Armor, Parching Touch (Sand Shaper), Protection From Evil, Ray Of Clumsiness, Ray Of Enfeeblement, Speak with Animals (Sand Shaper), Summon Desert Ally I (Sand Shaper).

    2nd-Level Spells Known: Eagle's Splendor (Sand Shaper), Fox's Cunning (Sand Shaper), Glitterdust, Heat Metal (Sand Shaper), Owl's Wisdom (Sand Shaper), Resist Energy (Sand Shaper), Summon Desert Ally II (Sand Shaper), Summon Swarm (Sand Shaper), Web.

    3rd-Level Spells Known: Control Sand (Sand Shaper), Desiccate (Sand Shaper), Dispel Magic (Sand Shaper), Dominate Animal (Sand Shaper), Haboob (Sand Shaper), Slipsand (Sand Shaper), Stinking Cloud, Summon Desert Ally III (Sand Shaper), Sunstroke (Sand Shaper), Tormenting Thirst (Sand Shaper), Wind Wall (Sand Shaper).



    "If you fail to ferry Unas,
    He will leap and sit on the wing of Thoth,
    Then he will ferry Unas to that side!"



    Sources
    Quotes: Pyramid texts
    Desert Kobold: Unearthed Arcana
    Draconic Heritage: Races of the Dragon
    Draconic Resistance: Races of the Dragon
    Dragonblood Sorcerer: Races of the Dragon
    Fiery Burst: Complete Mage
    Greater Draconic Rite of Passage: Web enhancement
    Heighten Spell: Player's Handbook
    Improved Initiative: Player's Handbook
    Sand Shaper: Sandstorm
    Sorcerer: Player's Handbook
    Touchstone: Sandstorm



    "Ho, Unis! You have not gone away dead: you have gone away alive.
    Sit on Osiris's chair, with your baton in your arm, and govern the living;
    with your water lily scepter in you arm, and govern those
    of the inaccessible places.
    Your lower arms are of Atum, your upper arms of Atum, your belly of
    Atum, your back of Atum, your rear of Atum, your legs of Atum, your
    face of Anubis.
    Horus's mounds shall serve you; Seth's mounds shall serve you."

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Thrush, Slayer Mage

    If he ends up pulling fly from the pool, does that mean that he's using the Thrush Jet? And if he pulls jump, that's the Thrush Coil, and if he pulls water breathing, it's the Thrush Marine!

    Öwhat?


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrush
    Thrush, Slayer Mage

    The bandits stood in a rough semicircle across the road, having taken advantage of the rough wooden buildings of the secluded desert outpost to get the drop on him. Not one of them moved, the dry wind rustling hair and banging a distant shutter closed. One by one, Thrush locked eyes with each of them as he approached. They were after the bounty, he knew it, but they underestimated him. They always did. Over his shoulder, he called softly to the priest standing in the door of the small temple (probably Fharlanghn, maybe Pelor, didn't matter). "Get three diamonds ready." He flicked the cloak back into place over his shoulder as the ruffians tossed various derisive comments in his direction.

    He came to a slow stop in front of the would-be heroes, shifting his stub pipe in his teeth before reaching up to grab it and stow it in a pocket. "Now look here, boys-" he started before they cut him off.
    "No, you look here! We know who you are, Thrush, and your tricks won't work on us! You're coming along, one way or another. Even if it's in a bag!"
    "That's not very hospitable, there's not much air in a bag of holding."
    "No you idiot, a bodybag!" They were getting riled up, but Thrush couldn't help himself. It always did amuse him when their string were so easy to tug on.
    "I don't think so, fellas. I'll be going my own way now, so if you'll kindly let me through..." He knew it wouldn't be that easy. It was open desert out there, and they'd track him until he slept and get him then. He still had to give them a chance to back down at least. And so he took a step forward.

    Like the catch being released on a crossbow, his step forward set everything loose. All three of the bandits reached for wands, but they only got them halfway into the air by the time Thrush gave his quick chant and a flick of the wrist. All three of them grew suddenly vacant eyes as a series of soft thumps reverberated through the street, followed by another series as they all hit the dirt. After a slight pause, Thrush glanced over his shoulder and barked a single word, snapping his fingers, causing the fourth companion who had been sneaking up behind him with a blade to fall similarly lifeless to the ground. With a sigh, he reached back into his pocket and withdrew his stub pipe and a tindertwig to light it. As he casually sauntered past the temple, he offered an apologetic amendment to the slackjawed priest:
    "My mistake. Four diamonds."

    Spoiler: The Build
    Show
    Race: Silverbrow Human
    Benefits: Dragonblood subtype, bonus feat, Feather Fall 1/day (2/day at level 5), and Disguise Aptitude.

    8 STR
    16 DEX
    14 CON
    14 INT
    10 WIS
    16 CHA (level 4 boost)

    Level Class BaseAttack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Sorcerer 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 4 Fell Drain, Cooperative Spell Metamagic Specialist
    2nd Sorcerer 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 5
    3rd Sorcerer 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 6 Arcane Preparation
    4th Sorcerer 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 7
    5th Sorcerer 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 8
    6th Mage of the Arcane Order 1 +2 +1 +1 +6 Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft: Painting 9 Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile Guild Member, Spellpool I

    Epic feats:
    1. Practical Metamagic: Fell Drain
    2. Invisible Spell
    3. Twin Spell
    4. Invisible Needle
    5. Practical Metamagic: Twin Spell
    6. Repeat Spell
    7. Practical Metamagic: Repeat Spell
    8. Sanctum Spell
    9. Arcane Thesis: Sonic Snap
    10. Quicken Spell


    Spells known:
    0: Sonic Snap, Disrupt Undead, +5
    1: Magic Missile, Shield, +2
    2: Deflect, Web
    3: Greater Mage Armor

    Spoiler: The Rundown
    Show
    This build simply plays like a generic Sorcerer up until it hits level 6, then everything clicks. Let's break this down ability by ability:

    Metamagic Specialist: Replacing our familiar, this will do us more good. Despite the Arcane Preparation that we will soon pick up, we will often find ourselves needing to put together a combo on the fly.
    Fell Drain: We can't use it for several levels yet (starting at level 4 with Sonic Snap, then 6 with Magic Missile), but we need it later and we need a metamagic feat now, so here it is. [Prereq: none]
    Cooperative Spell: Feat tax for MotAO. Still, it is a metamagic feat and does include a clause for how it affects the level of the spell it is applied to, meaning it helps our combo. [Prereq: One metamagic feat (Fell Drain). Gained as Human bonus feat.]
    Arcane Preparation: This lets us more efficiently use our metamagic combos that we want to be using in combat. We know we'll need them anyway. Taken at level 3, but at level 4 we can prepare a Fell Drain Sonic Snap. [Prereq: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation (Sorcerer)]
    Mage of the Arcane Order: [Prereq: Kn: Arcana 8, Cooperative Spell, one metamagic feat (Fell Drain), able to prepare and cast 2nd level arcane spells (Arcane Preparation), guild fees]
    Guild Member: More obligations and expenses than benefits, but such is the price we pay for the Spellpool.
    Spellpool 1: Ah, here we go. For up to 3 levels of spells per day, we can spend a full round to bring any sorcerer/wizard spell to mind, where it lingers for a full six minutes before fading. We can do this for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells. Aside from cantrips, that's any spell we could conceivably cast. The versatility this provides us... I'm not even going to list various ways to use this, as the whole point of it here is to cover the things we haven't thought of and aren't prepared for.
    Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile. Also gained at level 6, with this feat we lay the foundation for all our growing feast of metamagic goodness. With this, our Fell Drain Magic Missile is only a level 2 spell that can apply 2 negative levels to up to 4 or 5 targets. [Prereq: Kn: Arcana 9, ability to cast arcane spells]
    Practical Metamagic: Fell Drain. With this, applying Fell Drain to our Magic Missile no longer increases the spell level thanks to Arcane Thesis. [Prereq: Spellcraft 8, able to spontaneously cast 3rd level arcane spells, any metamagic feat (Fell Drain), Dragonblood subtype (Silverbrow Human)]
    Twin Spell: Magic Missile is a 1st level spell, +2 from Fell Drain, +4 from Twin Spell, +0 from Cooperative Spell, -3 from Arcane Thesis, -1 from Practical Metamagic. With a 3rd level slot we can apply 4 negative levels to each of 4 or 5 targets. [Prereq: Any metamagic feat]
    Invisible Spell: Okay, yes, this is here to cheese the spell level lower via Arcane Thesis. But it also means he flicks his hand and people die with no apparent cause, and if you don't think that's the most awesome thing ever then good day to you sir. [Prereq: Any metamagic feat (several)]
    Invisible Needle: Maximum 3d4 damage at 15ft, but spammable. As a bonus, we finally hit Caster Level 9 for our Magic Missile, maxing out at 5 missiles. [Prereq: Ability to cast 3rd level spells]
    Practical Metamagic: Twin Spell. Our combo is now only a 1st level slot. Can't lie, that's pretty sweet.
    Repeat Spell: A new toy! Practical FD +1, Practical Twin +3, Repeat +3, Invisible +0, Cooperative +0, Arcane Thesis -5. Not only do we hit 5 targets for 4 negative levels each, they all take 4 more (or 2 if the DM sides with the lame interpretation of the repeat not twinning) on the next turn, provided they don't move more than 30ft. And with our Web spell that shouldn't be too hard to arrange. [Prereq: Any metamagic feat (several)]
    Practical Metamagic: Repeat Spell. Get that spell level back down so we get more per day. Total metamagic combo results in +1 slot level on a Thesis spell. [Prereq: as above]
    Sanctum Spell: Reduce our Thesis combos to +0, finally. I considered Energy Substitution and City Magic, but this eventually won out due to applying to our daily favorite, Magic Missile. Sadly, neither of the others does. [Prereq: Any metamagic feat (several)]
    Arcane Thesis: Sonic Snap. Ah, didn't think we'd take it yet again, did you? Well now an Invisible Cooperative Sanctum Twin Repeating Fell Drain Sonic Snap can drop up to 8 negative levels on a target from a cantrip slot, across 2 rounds. [Prereq: as above]
    Quicken Spell: Just as icing on the cake, you can now do the above combo with a 3rd level slot as a swift action. Have a particularly tough foe? If your usual combo isn't having enough effect, pop this off and let it do it's thing. [Prereq: none]

    Final combo: Sanctum +0, Invisible +0, Cooperative +0, Practical Fell Drain +1, Practical Twin +3, Practical Repeat +2, Arcane Thesis -6; total +0. Quicken Spell only really works with Sonic Snap, at +3 because of AT. Caster level 6, +2 for each Arcane Thesis spell, +1 for each Force spell. Our defensive spells get a duration boost, and our Magic Missile hits CL9, enough for all five missiles.
    For a more offensive build, some of the defensive spells may be swapped out for offensive ones. In particular, Greater Mage Armor might be swapped for Fireball. In this event, Invisible Needles is much less useful to us and should be swapped for Arcane Thesis on the Fireball. This will put us down by 1 caster level and leave us 1 missile shy, so we should find a way to boost that back up. We keep disrupt undead on hand in case we have to encounter them, because our negative levels do not mix with undead. In an undead heavy campaign, consider prioritizing this spell for Arcane Thesis. The spontaneous equivalent of pearls of power are going to help us get the most use out of our third level slots.
    For stats, we prioritized Cha just far enough to get a bonus spell of each level, and Dex as far as we could without being super expensive. Int 14 gets us a couple extra skills (Painting being very useful for a magic user) and extra uses of our Metamagic Specialist ability. Con 14 because we are a fragile fleshbag and like to keep all our internal organs internal. This should net us 5d4+16 HP, or 28.5 on average.
    For our strategy, we like to keep our greater mage armor going, then unleash all hell in the first round. If we need to prolong the fight we can throw up a shield and wade into the fray with our invisible needles, or stay back and drop a web to keep foes contained. Even our cantrips can be effective ways to eliminate foes thanks to our sonic snap combo, so every spell slot is useful to us, not just our highest level ones. Should we ever encounter a situation we don't have the right spell for, the Spellpool has our back, and since we're a Sorcerer paying it back is easy as pi.

    Alright, yeah I know metamagic reduction is nothing original or clever. But it's darn sure fun to use, and I hope I presented it in an engaging way. I originally wanted to build a Force Missile Mage but came just shy of being able to qualify. What can I say? I take great satisfaction in slaying foes with low level spells.

    Spoiler: The Sources
    Show
    Mage of the Arcane Order, Arcane Preparation, Cooperative Spell, Twin Spell, Repeat Spell, Sanctum Spell: Complete Arcane
    Invisible Needle: Complete Mage
    Invisible Spell: CityScape
    Silverbrow Human: Dragon Magic
    Practical Metamagic: Races of the Dragon
    Fell Drain: Libris Mortis
    Metamagic Specialist, Arcane Thesis, Deflect: PHBII
    Sonic Snap, Greater Mage Armor: Spell Compendium

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Sir Cohnium

    Who needs spells when you can cast fist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Cohnium
    Sir Cohnium
    Warforged Sorcerer 6
    Lawful Neutral

    Spoiler: Backstory
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    Before he'd even opened his eyes, he knew. Before he's seen the world, or learned anything about it, he understood. There was magic locked away inside of him.

    When he finally did open his eyes, the world he saw was that of the Stonesthrow Jewelry and Precious Gem Emporium. He had been constructed as property of the SJ&PGE, at the behest of the Stonesthrow Brothers themselves, built from practices that dated back to The War. He was built as a prototype, a reimagining of the old blueprints, to function as unpaid labor for the Emporium. He spent days in the mine, extracting jewels. He spend nights in the caravan trips, guarding the merchandise. He spent business hours at the warehouse ("We sell direct to you!"), on security detail, ensuring safe, theft-free transactions for all involved.

    And he spent time in the infirmary. Accidents happened; damage was done. And during those times when he stood there, immobile, letting the crafters work on his frame, he'd read. Such books and scrolls that he could find, he'd devour with vigor. Archaic tomes on the topics of spell theory, arcane lore, storage and use of magical energy, concepts of wizardry versus sorcery, the advanced mechanics of spell augmentation through the manipulation of arcane energies via introduction of components beyond the ken of typical interpretation of magical recipes and construction, and much more besides.

    He understood it all -- in theory. In practice, however, he could no more draw magic from his metal frame than he could spark forth emeralds from his eyeballs.

    Years passed by. And the Stonesthrow Jewelry and Precious Gem Emporium ran into legal troubles, which led to financial issues, which resulted, finally, in the dissolvement of the company. The SJ&PGE was no more. Cohn was free, beholden to no one. And so, he set off on his own personal quest: to discover just how it was that magic might be molded into metal, and more importantly, how to set it free!


    Spoiler: ACFs used
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    First level:
    Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana p.56)
    Spell Shield (Dungeonscape p.13)
    Stalwart Sorcerer (Complete Mage p.36)
    Fifth level:
    Domain Access (Complete Champion p.52)


    Spoiler: Stats
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    Stat Start Racial Bonus Total
    Strength 14 -- 14
    Constitution 15 +2 17
    Dexterity 14 -- 14
    Intelligence 14 -- 14
    Wisdom 10 -2 08
    Charisma 12 -2 10

    Increase Constitution at 4th level.


    Spoiler: Build Table
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Sorcerer 1 +0 +0 +0 +2
    • 4 Concentration
    • 4 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 2 K:arcana
    • 2 Spellcraft
    • 2 Use Magical Device
    Adamantine Body; MWP: (Pick, heavy); MWP: (Guisarme); Weapon Focus (Guisarme) Spell Shield
    2nd Sorcerer 2 +1 +0 +0 +3
    • 5 Concentration
    • 5 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 3 K:arcana
    • 3 Spellcraft
    • 2 Use Magical Device
    -- --
    3rd Sorcerer 3 +2 +1 +1 +3
    • 6 Concentration
    • 6 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 3 K:arcana
    • 3 Spellcraft
    • 3 Use Magical Device
    Wand Bonding --
    4th Sorcerer 4 +3 +1 +1 +4
    • 7 Concentration
    • 7 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 4 K:arcana
    • 4 Spellcraft
    • 3 Use Magical Device
    -- --
    5th Sorcerer 5 +3 +1 +1 +4
    • 8 Concentration
    • 8 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 4 K:arcana
    • 4 Spellcraft
    • 4 Use Magical Device
    -- Domain (Artifice)
    6th Sorcerer 6 +4 +2 +2 +5
    • 9 Concentration
    • 9 Craft (Gemcutting)
    • 5 K:arcana
    • 5 Spellcraft
    • 4 Use Magical Device
    Craft Wand --

    Feats:
    1. Cull Wand Essence
    2. Wandstrike
    3. Steady Concentration
    4. Obtain Familiar
    5. Improved Familiar
    6. Exceptional Artisan (Craft Wand)
    7. Extraordinary Artisan (Craft Wand)
    8. Legendary Artisan (Craft Wand)
    9. Craft Wondrous Item
    10. Spell Rehearsal



    Spoiler: Spell Table
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    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st 4/3 (Detect Magic; Electric Jolt; Repair Minor Damage) 2/1 - - - - - - - -
    2nd 5/4 (Arcane Mark) 3/1 - - - - - - - -
    3rd 5/4 4/1 - - - - - - - -
    4th 5/5 (Mending) 5/2 2/1 - - - - - - -
    5th 5/5 5/2+1 3/0+1 - - - - - - -
    6th 5/6 (Mage Hand) 5/2+1 4/0+1 1/0+1 - - - - - -


    Spoiler: Progression
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    Spoiler: Levels
    Show

    Spoiler: First
    Show

    Sir Cohnium (or Cohn, to his friends) is a sorcerer that can't cast spells. At first level, he has access to 1st level spells, but can't cast them due to his low Charisma. He can cast 0th level spells, but suffers an arcane spell failure of 35% due to his Adamantine Body. This makes it hard to be a mage.

    He is, however, ready to tank. The Battle and Stalwart ACFs grant him more hit points (a total of 13 at first level, right in line with fighters) and the Spell Shield ACF (which he can use twice per day) offers a chance to reduce the damage he might take (he'll need a roll of 9 or higher on a d20). Throw in Adamantine Body to up his AC (19) and give DR2/adamantine and Cohn has a good chance to survive 1st level encounters.

    As for weapons, Cohn uses a Guisarme that offers good damage capability and reach. He has his racial slam for any foe that moves inside the Guisarme's threatened area. He also carries a heavy pick to complete the set (slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing).

    Cohn uses Craft (gemcutting) during rest periods to repair himself (as per Eberron Campaign Setting p.46). He'll need a roll of 10 or higher on a d20 to regain hit points. (As it so happens, he can take 10 on the check, which would grant him 1 hp repaired over an 8 hour period.)


    Spoiler: Second
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    More of the same.
    An extra use of Spell Shield (up to 3/day), which needs a roll now of 8 or higher.
    Taking 10 on the Craft check for repairing himself now grants 2 hit points repaired each night.


    Spoiler: Third
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    Wand Bonding is an entertaining little feat. If a MagicMart is available (and gold pieces are plentiful), it will really open up Cohn's versatility with magic. If not, any wand that the DM drops into your lap can be quite handy. No wands at all? That's fine, too; you'll just have to consider this a 'set-up' feat for later.

    Spell Shield is still a use for the spell slots. A roll of 7 or higher is required.
    Taking 10 on the Craft check to repair himself now grants 3 hit points repaired each night.


    Spoiler: Fourth
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    Second level spell slots are now available. Cohn still doesn't have the requisite Charisma to learn (or cast) such spells, but, of course, still can use the slots to power Wand Bonding (if wands are available) or Spell Shield. Spell Shield will require a roll of 6 or higher to reduce damage by 10 (with a second level slot). Or a roll of 5 to reduce damage by 5 (with a first level slot).

    Taking 10 on the Craft check to repair himself now grants 4 hit points repaired each night.


    Spoiler: Fifth
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    Spell Shield will require a roll of 5 or higher to reduce damage by 10 (with a second level slot). Or a roll of 4 to reduce damage by 5 (with a first level slot).

    Taking 10 on the Craft check to repair himself now grants 9 hit points repaired each night.

    Spoiler: On the Domain Sorcerer ACF
    Show

    The Artifice domain was chosen mostly because the fluff fits Sir Cohnium well. The bonus to Craft checks helps, of course, obviously. But the other reason to take it was to avoid the RAW-RAI debate. Do domain abilities run off of class level or cleric level? The Artifice domain doesn't worry about that.

    But the real debate for Sir Cohnium is in how the granted spells apply. By a completely strict RAW reading, those spells are not added to spells known; he's just able to cast one of each level each day. This would be a specific rule that trumps the general rule of needing a specific CHA score to be able to learn or cast a spell.

    Although, I can't tell you how to run your table (or how your DM will rule it), my RAI here (and how I'm offering this build) is to add the domain spells to the spells known list of a sorcerer for each spell level s/he is able to learn, as per the usual rules. This means that Sir Cohnium is still not able to cast any of these spells (Charisma is too low), but that they are added to his personal spell list and that, as such, he can use spell completion and spell trigger items based on them without resorting to a UMD check.



    Spoiler: Sixth
    Show

    Spell Shield has third level slots available now which will require a roll of 5 or higher to reduce damage by 15. Or a roll of 4 to reduce damage by 10 (with a second level slot). Or a roll of 3 to reduce damage by 5 (with a first level slot).

    Taking 10 on the Craft check to repair himself now grants 10 hit points repaired each night.

    The Craft Wand feat will allow Cohn to craft a wand of any 0th level spell he knows. He can then expend a 0th level spell slot (as per Wand Bonding) to use the wand and "cast" the spell without worrying about his ASF. By following the rules on p.267 of the Eberron Campaign Setting, Cohn can make wands that are Warforged Components. It'll cost twice the usual price, but the Warforged Component wand can then be embedded into Cohn's body. The result? Activation of the wand can be done silently, with just a thought. It would allow Cohn to use those wands while gagged (and bound, for that matter), in a cloud of acid gas, in the midst of a Silence spell, underwater, in space, or in any other situation where he can't otherwise speak.

    He can also utilize the help of party members to create wands. Remember that Cohn is the front-line fighter, not the arcanist. The party probably also has a wizard or sorcerer that will be able to provide a spell for wand creation. And there are probably other casters in the party (druid, cleric, bard, etc) that can provide a spell that also appears on the sorcerer spell list, and would thus be available for Cohn to use in wand form. Making a few such wands for use will greatly increase Cohn's versatility.

    With his new third level spells slots, Cohn qualifies to enter into a dragonpact (Dragon Magic p.87) For this contest, we'll look to the Master of Magical Defense pact. (If playing in a campaign, your DM may allow you to create your own artifice themed pact.) Cohn trades away a third level spell slot (which is already accounted for on the Spell Table provided) and gains two SLAs. They're basically spells known that Cohn can actually use! And remember, these SLAs are able to supply crafting requirements!



    Spoiler: Feats
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    Spoiler: Cull Wand Essence
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    Remember those wands Cohn can create? Now they become all the more interesting. Cohn can, on his own, make wands of 0th level (worthless from the standpoint of this feat), 1st level (through the dragonpact ability), and 3rd level (also through the dragonpact ability). A wand of a 3rd level spell can, with this feat, shoot a ray dealing 6d6 damage, which is certainly nothing to sneeze at in an E6 campaign. With Wand Bonding, Cohn can expend spell slots instead of charges to create the effect. With a wand that's a warforged component, he can do it with nothing more than a thought.

    If Cohn seeks help from another sorcerer or wizard or druid in the party, they can create a wand of Giant's Wrath (Spell Compendium p.105). The spell is of interest due to its swift action casting! (If no such party member exists, the same trick can be pulled off with a beguiler or a cleric helping with a wand of Hesitate (PHB2 p.114) and it's immediate action casting.)


    Spoiler: Wandstrike
    Show

    Ah, wands as weapons. Spend a charge (can Wand Bonding cover this?) to make an attack (melee touch) and set off the wand. Cull Wand Essense can be used here, with the ray attack automatically hitting if the melee attack hits. 1d6 for the melee attack plus 6d6 (if it's a third level wand) via CWE. Follow up that attack with a swift action wand to Cull (more) Wand Essence. That can certainly hurt an E6 foe.


    Spoiler: Steady Concentration
    Show

    Rolling a check for Spell Shield is now a thing of the past. Just take 10 and autosucceed. 'Cause when you need to avoid damage, taking the possibility (no matter how small the probability) is a very good thing.


    Spoiler: Obtain/Improved Familiar
    Show

    The Monster Manuel 4, on page 30, has a Clockwork Mender that can be a familiar. The tiny construct has a repairing touch that can heal a construct (once per day). And, being that it's a familiar, Etch (our Clockwork Mender familiar in question) can use Cohn's ranks in Craft to repair its master. By taking 10 on the check, Etch can repair 6 hp worth of damage to Cohn in 8 hours of work. There's no reason that the tiny creature shouldn't be able to ride around inside of its master all day long just continually repairing damage, all without using any actions on Cohn's part.


    Spoiler: Exceptional/Extraordinary/Legendary Artisan
    Show

    It should be obvious why these three feats are in this build. They're listed here in alphabetical order for simplicity. Each campaign will be different. Some will have an abundance of free time, with little money to work with. Others will shower players in wealth without much chance to rest. Shuffle the order of these feats around as needed for the campaign you're in.


    Spoiler: Craft Wonderous Item
    Show

    Eberron Campaign Setting (p.269) has the Wand Sheath, a warforged component that might very well interest Cohn. With this feat, he can now craft and install one (or two, since he has two arms.)

    Also, the feat is needed for crafting eternal wands. Found on p.159 of the Magic Item Compendium, eternal wands are useful for arcane casters. They can add extra versitility to Cohn's spell usage (adding the ability to "cast" spells from bard, dread necromancer, death master, etc lists that he wasn't otherwise able to.) RAW/RAI debates get wonky when determining whether or not eternal wands can be used with Cull Wand Essense or Wandstrike or Wand Bonding and such, so consult your DM. Either way, they'll be useful tools in Cohn's belt.


    Spoiler: Spell Rehearsal
    Show

    Fighting a foe with SR? Cull Wand Essense not blasting through? Not to worry. Just keep trying. Again. And again. And again.... Eventually, it'll do its damage.




    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    Adamantine Body feat: Monster Manual III p.192 (or Races of Eberron p.118 or Eberron Campaign Setting p.50)
    Wand Bonding feat: City of Stormreach p.119
    Cull Wand Essence: Magic of Eberron p.46
    Wandstrike: Complete Arcane p.84
    Obtain Familiar: Complete Arcane p.81
    Exceptional/Extraordinary/Legendary Artisan: Eberron Campaign Setting p.52/53/56
    Steady Concentration: Races of Stone p.144
    Spell Rehearsal: Races of the Dragon p.105

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