Um... overpowered?

[Omega_Goo]

Ok, so we just started playing a campaign (using core & PH2) at level 1, and I'm pretty much convinced my character is overpowered.

Our group is currently 5 people:

Half-orc Barbarian (19 STR, 16 DEX, 10 CON, 9 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA)
Elf Ranger (16 STR, 17 DEX, 12 CON, 12 INT, 14 WIS, 12 CHA)
Elf Bard (17 STR, 19 DEX, 10 CON, 9 INT, 8 WIS, 15 CHA)
Gnome Sorcerer (8 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 11 INT, 6 WIS, 18 CHA)
Halfling Beguiler (11 STR, 18 DEX, 13 CON, 16 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA)

I play the Beguiler (yes, I know those rolls are insane...), and I am playing the role of the rogue (trapfinding and such). The weirdest thing, however, is that I have an AC of 19 at first level! Is that a little high, or is it just me?

I also have a +10 on hide and a +8 on move silently (with armor penalty). I also have the ability to cast spells. Is it just me, or am I a teensy bit... broken?

[AslanCross]

o_O What's your calculation for your AC?

[slexlollar89]

Sir, your rolls are not that great, especially after your racial adjustments, and 19 AC is not the end all be ll for first level AC... I've seen lvl 1 AC as high as 28 before.

But the guy should do well! Good luck !

[Dhavaer]

o_O What's your calculation for your AC?

I'm guessing +4 chain shirt, +4 Dex, +1 size. Very good for a caster.

[Mavian]

At a glance I'd say, +4 dex, +4 Armor, +1 size.

Nice, but I wouldn't call it overpowering.

edit: Ninja'd

[Zinaida]

And why are there no Dwarves in your group? >:|

[Omega_Goo]

Mind you, this is the second time I've played D&D, and the first time I've actually played a character. (I DMed my first time playing...)

Well, true about not quite insane rolls, but rolling three sets of stats with only one number below 10 counts for something, right?

I just find it funny that the "rouge" is a better "tank" than the barbarian.
19 AC = 10 base + 4 Dex + 4 Chain Shirt + 1 size. I know you could get higher, but I think that's pretty impressive.

Of course, with the weapons I actually had enough money to start off with, I can do a whopping 1d3 damage (small sling and dagger), but at least I make a good decoy.

Whoa... ninja'd... ish

[Zinaida]

Tank means absorbing damage, not avoiding it and in D&D there's no real solid mechanic for it like there is in MMORPGs except for the Knight class. A DM has free reign to focus on who he wants or break out surprise rounds, as well as denying any spells or classes he sees unfit for his games.

At any rate.. roll enough dice at it, it'll die. Goblins may be goblins but if enough shoot arrows at you or poke spears at you one is bound to roll high enough, or even worse get a natural 20.

[SkanMan]

I really wish i played d&d more... too many numbers, i dont get it

[Leon]

Ok, so we just started playing a campaign (using core & PH2) at level 1, and I'm pretty much convinced my character is overpowered.

Our group is currently 5 people:

Half-orc Barbarian (19 STR, 16 DEX, 10 CON, 9 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA)
Elf Ranger (16 STR, 17 DEX, 12 CON, 12 INT, 14 WIS, 12 CHA)
Elf Bard (17 STR, 19 DEX, 10 CON, 9 INT, 8 WIS, 15 CHA)
Gnome Sorcerer (8 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 11 INT, 6 WIS, 18 CHA)
Halfling Beguiler (11 STR, 18 DEX, 13 CON, 16 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA)

I play the Beguiler (yes, I know those rolls are insane...), and I am playing the role of the rogue (trapfinding and such). The weirdest thing, however, is that I have an AC of 19 at first level! Is that a little high, or is it just me?

I also have a +10 on hide and a +8 on move silently (with armor penalty). I also have the ability to cast spells. Is it just me, or am I a teensy bit... broken?

They look like good Avg Rolls, Thats a decent starting AC and good skill bonuses, Spellcasting is just the Icing on the cake

The Beguiler is a good class, go forth and have Fun

[Hawriel]

I dont see any thing wrong with your character. afew stat points off my first character. I dont know what a beguiler actualy does but if the spells can make up for your down sized weapons all the better. Id say find ways to pump up that AC. invest in mobility feats and tumble ect ect.

[kpenguin]

Well, I wouldn't say those stats are insane, but I will say they are rather high, considering that they were rolled and not with 32+ point buy. You're not overpowered, not in the least.

[Kurald Galain]

I also have a +10 on hide and a +8 on move silently (with armor penalty). I also have the ability to cast spells. Is it just me, or am I a teensy bit... broken?

A beguiler can out-rogue most rogues, yes, except for the sneak attacking part. It's a strong class, but it lacks a bit of versatility in its spells. At low levels, it's great. At high level, it's as overpowered as a wizard, pretty much.

[The Mormegil]

I personally play a Beguiler (even though I'm at a higher level than you.. ECL 13 now) and I found out that I have an AC 10 points better than both my melee companions. Add that I now am planning to go in 5 levels of Shadowcraft Mage (40% miss chance), add Greater Mirror Image Cheese and some illusions (say, greater invisibility) and you'll have a good melee character... only flaw being my +8 claw (1d3-1) melee attack...

Anyway I like Beguilers. And I was thinking of a Beguiler gish build for one of my next characters (ToB's a must, I love it too much).

[thubby]

not really overpowered. beguilers are more defense and trickery than offense, so its no surprise you'd have a high ac and stealth.

[Thane]

A fighter can get the same AC. Actually, a fighter could just add a heavy shield into the mix to take his AC up to 21. And maybe dodge feat to take it up to 22 (against 1 opponent per round).

It's not that your character is overpowered. It's just that the tank types tend to put higher stats into strength because they assume they'll be in full plate by 3rd level or so (which offers +8 AC but only supports +1 dex bonus).

[Person_Man]

Play a Kobold. You can squeeze out another +1 for Natural Armor. Buy a mithril buckler (no armor check penalty, no spell failure, no need for proficiency) for another +1 to AC.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Play Pun Pun, add Hulking Hurler abilities, H. I. V. E. abilties, nanobots abilities, and just ubercheese.


I've gained the feat I Win.

[Icewalker]

I'd say top AC without focusing on it would be about 21. Full plate, large shield and maybe +1 dex. If you are trying to get high AC but aren't trying to max out the character (no racial or class related tricks, or Pun Pun etc) One could have an easy 24 on a small character, if you use tower instead of large shield.

it is interesting, that AC at low level can easily be near 20, making the armored characters near impossible to hit, with 1st level encounters having attack bonuses probably +3 or lower.

[Tor the Fallen]

A bard with 17 in strength and 9 in intelligence? Bwah?

[Leon]

A bard with 17 in strength and 9 in intelligence? Bwah?

And thats a problem?

[Lycurgus]

And thats a problem?

Don't know about you guys, but if I'm making a bard and not rolling organically those stats would not be in that order!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Play Pun Pun, add Hulking Hurler abilities, H. I. V. E. abilties, nanobots abilities, and just ubercheese.


I've gained the feat I Win.

Objection. None of those are meant to be played. Specifically not Pun-Pun, but even the HIVE and nanobots are thought exercises. Technically, Hulking Hurler is a real class; it's just badly designed.

Anyway, you've optimized your character well, but he's not overpowered in any real sense.

And I've played a 17 Str Bard before (in the ToEE video game as an experiment, but still). It's reasonable if suboptimal, given the number of attack buffs bards can easily access. Then there's the Bard/Paladin I need to get around to recreating. Not sure what his Str was, but it was fairly up there.

[Jerthanis]

Jeez, you think a beguiler is overpowered because they get armor? Check a sorcerer versus a beguiler in terms of raw spellcasting power, ignoring ALL other goodies a Beguiler gets. A beguiler casts spontaneously from a list that's 5 times longer than a sorcerer will ever get, and includes almost every good spell from the sorc/wizard list in the self-defending, utility, party buffing and save-or-lose based spells, including things you might not think of, like Haste and Freedom of Movement. They gain their new spells immediately upon achieving their new level, and cast spontaneously among any of them just as quick.

Compare a beguiler hitting level 4 and being able to cast their huge volume of 2nd level spells to many different purposes, blinding some, misdirecting others, breaking through whatever doors bar their way, or rendering entire groups of enemies useless, with the 4th level sorcerer who is able to do all of one. single. spell. and she'd better be happy with that. Same number of times per day, but the beguiler ALSO gets a billion other things, not the least of which includes actual class features. The Sorcerer gets only a familiar.

Not to say the beguiler is all roses and sunshine, they miss out on a good deal of the travel based spells, some of the good battlefield control, and most blasting abilities that a sorcerer could be getting...* a few gems like Dimension door, Overland Flight, contingency and so on get missed out by the Beguiler... but overall, Beguilers get everything Sorcerers will ever really need, and more.

* Worth noting however is that their whelm spells are actually fairly potent if you absolutely need damage as long as your opponent has a mind.

[Solo]

Jeez, you think a beguiler is overpowered because they get armor? Check a sorcerer versus a beguiler in terms of raw spellcasting power, ignoring ALL other goodies a Beguiler gets. A beguiler casts spontaneously from a list that's 5 times longer than a sorcerer will ever get, and includes almost every good spell from the sorc/wizard list in the self-defending, utility, party buffing and save-or-lose based spells, including things you might not think of, like Haste and Freedom of Movement. They gain their new spells immediately upon achieving their new level, and cast spontaneously among any of them just as quick.

Compare a beguiler hitting level 4 and being able to cast their huge volume of 2nd level spells to many different purposes, blinding some, misdirecting others, breaking through whatever doors bar their way, or rendering entire groups of enemies useless, with the 4th level sorcerer who is able to do all of one. single. spell. and she'd better be happy with that. Same number of times per day, but the beguiler ALSO gets a billion other things, not the least of which includes actual class features. The Sorcerer gets only a familiar.

Not to say the beguiler is all roses and sunshine, they miss out on a good deal of the travel based spells, some of the good battlefield control, and most blasting abilities that a sorcerer could be getting...* a few gems like Dimension door, Overland Flight, contingency and so on get missed out by the Beguiler... but overall, Beguilers get everything Sorcerers will ever really need, and more.

* Worth noting however is that their whelm spells are actually fairly potent if you absolutely need damage as long as your opponent has a mind.

Beguilers have a spell list limited to PHB an PHBII spells, though.

Sorcerers have the ability to select spells from more splatbooks than beguilers, which is pretty powerful depending on the spells selected.

[Leon]

The Beguiler is to Enchantment as what the Warmage is to Evocation - there are some sacrifices that come with that position and spell varity is the main one