For Science! A Guide to the Revisited Artificer

[Dork_Forge]

Wait. You have to have the spell on your list to read it?! What's the point then? What about the whole "getting a scroll of raise dead" for your friend?

I'm only a 5e player so maybe that was a thing for previous editions, or to allow a player to cast rez magic higher than they're capable of but the 5e rules are:

A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material Components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal Casting Time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.

If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your Spellcasting Ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.

I disagree with it personally and would allow an Arcana check for off list spells, but it's down to the DM at the end of the day.

Artificers can still make great use of scribing scrolls normally though (as long as they have the gold), letting you carry around scrolls of spells just in case and preparing the ones you are more likely to cast (You can also provide spells to a party Wizard this way).

[samuraijaques]

I'm only a 5e player so maybe that was a thing for previous editions, or to allow a player to cast rez magic higher than they're capable of but the 5e rules are:



I disagree with it personally and would allow an Arcana check for off list spells, but it's down to the DM at the end of the day.

Artificers can still make great use of scribing scrolls normally though (as long as they have the gold), letting you carry around scrolls of spells just in case and preparing the ones you are more likely to cast (You can also provide spells to a party Wizard this way).

Man I glossed right over that when I read through magic items. We've been playing this wrong at our table for years. It used to be in 3.5 you could use a scroll with a user magic item skill check. Bummer.

[Damon_Tor]

I think you could probably make it, though as it isn't on your list you wouldn't be able to read the scroll you made yourself.

Artificers ignore class requirements for items at 11th level IIRC. That should include scrolls too.

[Evaar]

Artificers ignore class requirements for items at 11th level IIRC. That should include scrolls too.

Yup. The feature says they ignore class, race, spell, and level requirements. Which suggests they can use any scroll they find.

[Dork_Forge]

Artificers ignore class requirements for items at 11th level IIRC. That should include scrolls too.

14th level (which puts it in most people likely won't get that high and when you do you still now just have access to 1st level spells off list), but should work (maybe just requiring a check), it includes spell in what it ignores unlike the Thief's ability.

[Zene]

Great guide! Thank you so much for putting it together.

Reading through, I had a question and a comment. My apologies if these were covered earlier in the thread responses --I did start reading through them, but they seemed to be about older versions of the Artificer. So I just skipped ahead to comment.

Question: You mentioned that each subclass has a use for its bonus action. I feel like I'm missing something -- what's the Alchemist's?

Comment: The guide says that the artificer homunculus and steel defender can use Spell Storing Items. That doesn't seem right by my read. They both have a specified list of actions they can take, and neither lists "Use an Object" or "Use a Magic Item", which they would need. (Tiny Servants, and familiars, could use them, though. As could raging barbarians -- that could be useful, IMO.)

[Dork_Forge]

Great guide! Thank you so much for putting it together.

Reading through, I had a question and a comment. My apologies if these were covered earlier in the thread responses --I did start reading through them, but they seemed to be about older versions of the Artificer. So I just skipped ahead to comment.

Question: You mentioned that each subclass has a use for its bonus action. I feel like I'm missing something -- what's the Alchemist's?

Comment: The guide says that the artificer homunculus and steel defender can use Spell Storing Items. That doesn't seem right by my read. They both have a specified list of actions they can take, and neither lists "Use an Object" or "Use a Magic Item", which they would need. (Tiny Servants, and familiars, could use them, though. As could raging barbarians -- that could be useful, IMO.)

The bonus action comment may be a left over from when the homunulus was part of the Alchemist.

The restricted list of actions only applies within combat, so you could have a SD/AH use a SSI outside of combat (to for example, make themselves invisible).

[Zene]

The bonus action comment may be a left over from when the homunulus was part of the Alchemist.

Ah, ok.

The restricted list of actions only applies within combat, so you could have a SD/AH use a SSI outside of combat (to for example, make themselves invisible).

Ooh I didn't catch that -- much more useful, then. Thanks!

[Zene]

Has anyone watched Treantmonk’s artificer videos? I’m really interested in his perspective, but I don’t have 4+ hours to watch them. If anyone’s seen them—any interesting points/builds/tips? Any other takeaways?

[Evaar]

Has anyone watched Treantmonk’s artificer videos? I’m really interested in his perspective, but I don’t have 4+ hours to watch them. If anyone’s seen them—any interesting points/builds/tips? Any other takeaways?

I have watched most of them.

In general, Artillerist does excellent damage if you take advantage of chances to hit multiple targets and pick up a familiar to use a spell storing item at higher levels with Shatter - I don't recall if he used a feat or multiclassed to get that familiar. May have been a feat since the Artillerist doesn't have much need for stats other than Intelligence. Its damage ebbs worst at 8th level, but everything else should easily outdamage the baseline "warlock using eldritch blast with agonizing blast."

He has two Battlesmith builds and I haven't watched both, but in general the Battlesmith results in solid damage but lags behind the Artillerist; instead the Battle Smith expands its tank/utility options substantially and, as everyone suspected, makes a better Beast Master Ranger than the Beast Master Ranger.

He couldn't make a competitive Alchemist build without multiclassing. He tried to minimize the multiclassing so it would still feel like an Alchemist, but the result was something that works okay. Alchemist can be quite good outside of combat, but if you want a character who has things to do during combat then probably best to look elsewhere.

A good way to watch his videos is to watch preamble as he describes his goals, then scroll past the first few levels, watch a little bit in the middle so you can get an idea of the progression track, then skip to the end for his summary. A lot of the stuff in the actual step by step building is stuff that would be helpful for newer people, but a lot of optimization minded people don't need to know why he thinks Variant Human, for example, is a good choice for most things.

[Smoothjedi]

Warforged: Unsurprisingly, a race of automata is quite suitable for a master of technology. Everyone likes constitution, the protection from various hazards is very nice, and you get a bit more AC. Also, Pants is a canonical name for a Warforged.

I think Warforged should increase to Gold for Artillerists. Main reason being is they can take advantage of the Wand Sheath infusion (or common magic item if you can swing that earlier than 6). With a Wand Sheath, you can wear your wand on your arm, keeping your hand free to hold your cannon. With Warforged +1 AC, it's not hard to get a 21 AC, as someone else mentioned. Having your flamethrower in your hand and being able to cast spells without a problem greatly increases its viability.

I think you are overvaluing the Artillerist’s turrets and devaluing the Homunculus.

Deploying the Turret Costs an Action.
This is the biggest and simplest problem with the turrets that keeps it from being ranked gold IMO. Spending an action is pretty costly, when most combats only last about 3 rounds. Yes, you can set it up before combat, but the turret’s 10 minute duration means this can be tricky. The turret can still be a strong, efficient source of damage unless...

The Turrets are outclassed by bonus action Weapon attacks
I wouldn’t bring this up if you hadn’t mentioned it in your reasoning for the Homunculus’s ranking. You talk about the Acidic Spittle bonus action attack falling to the wayside if players acquire BA weapon attacks from feats, but the Turrets suffer from the same problem. The extra attack from Crossbow Expert or Polearm Expert is going to outdamage the turret with Arcane Weapon up and proper stat investment. Sure, Arcane Weapon costs a spell slot, but so do your turrets after the first use of each day, and Arcane Weapon lasts substantially longer while improving your standard weapon attacks.

You can technically deal more damage with turrets once you reach level 14 and can have two of them active at once; but harkening back to my first point, this requires TWO turns to set up and can only be done once a long rest.

Think of the Spell Slots
Because the turrets don’t scale with spell slots, they're most efficient when deployed with a 1st level spell slot. Unfortunately, the most 1st level spell slots you'll ever have is 4 (without multiclassing anyways). This puts the turrets in competition with the Artillerist's other 1st level spells, most notably Shield and Arcane Weapon. While you can certainly deploy the turrets using higher level spell slots, using anything higher than 2nd level spell slot is a pretty big waste when compared against a Fireball. Again, this isn't a problem the homunculus suffers from, as you're not expected to resummon it often.

Now that I'm done talking about the problems with the Turret that should lower it to Blue rank IMO, let's talk about the incredible utility the Homunculus offers that should bump it up to Blue rank as well.

First off you're only spending an action to initially summon the turret, and because it's a bonus action you can use it on the same turn. Therefore, you can summon, move for positioning, and then fire straight away. I don't see what the big deal is there.
I had written some stuff about Arcane Weapon and how it's a poor comparison, but after reading more in the thread, others pointed out it wasn't on their spell list anymore, so a lot of that is a moot point. However, I will say that although turrets may not scale with spell slots, but they do scale up +50% at level eight to 3d8 damage. The duration is an hour now, so perhaps you were looking at a different version of the class?

To wrap up, I think turrets, especially flamethrower, are some of the best uses of a Bonus Action in the game. 2d8 damage (eventually 3d8x2), potentially in a cone, on top of being able to cast and use concentration elsewhere is not something easily dismissed. Being able to carry it along with you in your hand using the Wand Sheath mentioned earlier makes it even more appealing. Sure a Homonculus has great utility, but an artillerist can have both; one for combat and the other for outside of it.

[Zene]

<snip>

Awesome summary, thank you! And great tips on watching his vids. I'll definitely give that a try. I didn't realize he was consistent with an opening goal and a summary at the end... that helps a lot.

[stoutstien]

Running my artificer tonight i realized that flash of genius works with counter spell.

[Ortho]

Languid_Duck, can I ask you to change the color of your ratings? Us colorblind folk are having a really hard time figuring out which ratings are Gold and which ones are Green.

[Uncleterri]

You plan on reviewing the armore subclass of the artificer?

[MaxWilson]

Running my artificer tonight i realized that flash of genius works with counter spell.

Likewise, Cutting Words works against Counterspell. : )

(Can also give Bardic Inspiration to friendly Counterspellers, which is a lot cheaper than making them take the Abjuror subclass, and arguably cheaper than investing a Magical Secrets in Counterspell.)

[wahooker]

I noticed that Vitriolic Sphere was still listed as a 4th level spell. It has been removed from the spell list in the official list.

[Optimator]

Great guide!

[Syjyl4488]

Just curious about battle smith builds...I have decent stats except for str n cha, was going to put my 8th lvl asi in int raising it to 18...what are some obvious ways to improve my damage output (dm doesn’t allow arcane weapon), and I’m using a flame tongue great axe...

[Dork_Forge]

Just curious about battle smith builds...I have decent stats except for str n cha, was going to put my 8th lvl asi in int raising it to 18...what are some obvious ways to improve my damage output (dm doesn’t allow arcane weapon), and I’m using a flame tongue great axe...

Great Weapon Master is one way to achieve that, do you feel like you're lacking in damage? I'd imagine doing 4d6+3 on a hit at will would be pretty satisfying. If you're looking for more add on damage and you have the Wis to pull it off, dipping one level of War Cleric will give you access to Divine Favor (1st level spell, 1 minute duration, bonus action cast for an additional 1d4 radiant on each hit) plus at least one bonus action attack with your Flame Tongue per day.

It's worth keeping in mind that your DPR is going to be increasing naturally as an Artificer anyway: 8th level brings you better accuracy and a point of damage, 9th level gives you 4 uses of Arcane Jolt a day and a bump to your Steel Defender from your Prociency Bonus increasing.

[Syjyl4488]

I like the thought of gwm, I don’t plan on multiclassing because the capstone ability is amazing...it was ruled that I can’t use infusions on adamantine armor since it’s technically magical. I may have the option to buy a wand of lightning bolts, I can’t use it and repeating shot until 10th, I have enhanced defense I have on plain half plate, gloves of thievery, and three attunement items (repeating shot, stone of good luck, and the flame tongue), I can’t afford it yet, but if I get it should I use enhanced weapon on the heavy xbow, so I can attune to the wand? (It would really pump up my ranged damage...)

[Dork_Forge]

I like the thought of gwm, I don’t plan on multiclassing because the capstone ability is amazing...it was ruled that I can’t use infusions on adamantine armor since it’s technically magical. I may have the option to buy a wand of lightning bolts, I can’t use it and repeating shot until 10th, I have enhanced defense I have on plain half plate, gloves of thievery, and three attunement items (repeating shot, stone of good luck, and the flame tongue), I can’t afford it yet, but if I get it should I use enhanced weapon on the heavy xbow, so I can attune to the wand? (It would really pump up my ranged damage...)

I was a little confused reading this, it looks like you're in somewhat of a magic mart game, so you currently have mundane Half Plate then and were considering purchasing Adamantine?

A wand of lightning bolts would always be beneficial to have in your back pocket (though be careful of the friendly fire aspect), are you able to craft wands?

What all is available for purchase in your game?

I like that you're going for versatility in combat, but it doesn't really seem like you have a definitive style down yet and it's making your options very open and yourself very indecisive. So what do you normally do in combat? What role are you trying to cover, if you're trying to cover one at all?

If you use Enhanced Weapon on a cross bow you'd only be able to attack once per turn with it since I assume you don't have Crossbow Expert, so you'd be better off using it on a Longbow.

If damage is your primary concern then I'd just lean into the Flame Tongue (unless you come up against Fire Resistance/Immunity anywhere near frequently) and pick up GWM. 4d6+4*2 (36 average damage) is no slouch in Tier 2 (or Tier 3 really) and doesn't even account for your Steel Defender's attack damage (fun trick, once you hit level 10 you can give your Steel Defender Gauntlets of Ogre Power to bump up their to hit and damage). For burst damage you have smite spells and from 9th level onwards you'll have the option of dropping another 2d6 on top of your hits, the ability to occasionally add another 10-20 GWM on top would be nice.

What does your party look like, are you struggling in combats or are you feeling outshined in the damage department?

[Syjyl4488]

I’m trying to be as versatile as possible. I can’t use the adamantine since my defense infusion requires a non magical object. But I typically focus on melee. I’m part of a guild that stores magical items obtained in quests until someone can buy them, but it’s 5,000 gp for rare items, and we get a decent amount after completing a game/quest, but I still have to save up. Last time we were up against a dragon and I had to rely on ranged attacks (luckily I had repeating shot online), but I don’t want to give up reliability...the wand would help me deal with multiple targets which battlesmith isn’t great at (since we get so few aoe’s), but it’s the second time I’ve dealt with flyers so I’m loath to give up the repeating shot infusion (which requires attunement). I’m only 6th lvl right now.

[Dork_Forge]

I’m trying to be as versatile as possible. I can’t use the adamantine since my defense infusion requires a non magical object. But I typically focus on melee. I’m part of a guild that stores magical items obtained in quests until someone can buy them, but it’s 5,000 gp for rare items, and we get a decent amount after completing a game/quest, but I still have to save up. Last time we were up against a dragon and I had to rely on ranged attacks (luckily I had repeating shot online), but I don’t want to give up reliability...the wand would help me deal with multiple targets which battlesmith isn’t great at (since we get so few aoe’s), but it’s the second time I’ve dealt with flyers so I’m loath to give up the repeating shot infusion (which requires attunement). I’m only 6th lvl right now.

If you can trade out your Flame Tongue (or you could keep it for emergencies I guess) here are a couple ways I personally play my Battle Smith(s):

-Shield and Spear (with the returning weapon infusion): this doesn't require attunement and allows a seemless transition between melee and ranged combat (specifically within 20 feet without needing to work around disadvantage)

-Shield and Hand Crossbow (with Repeating Shot infusion): This gives you pretty decent range (30 feet) without needing to tangle with disadvantage and allows you to mostly bypass the crossbow expert feat (only really missing out on the no disadvantage in melee benefit), if you take Sharpshooter then you cann push your range to 120 feet which should realistically be more than enough to handle all encounters. Strategic placement of your Steel Defender can hold off monsters from closing on you.

Edit: If we're talking about wands as well you may want to look into a Wand of Magic Missiles, it should be cheaper (so you can purchase it sooner) and doesn't require attunement.

[Syjyl4488]

I’m okay with wielding 2h weapons. I’m planning on picking up the int bump at 8th, gwm at 12th, and another int bump at 16th, so no room for xbow Xpert/SS, oddly enough no one’s come across a wand of mm, but I’m set with single target attacks, what I really need are reliable aoe’s hence the wand...once I hit 10th I have some dt saved up so I’m gonna craft some scrolls of smites I can use to boost damage to single targets. It was ruled that I can’t use scrolls of arcane casters (or scribe my own for others, since I rely on tools for the effects) until at least 14th lvl when I can use any item. There are other powerful items available at tier 3, but I’m at least 5 lvls away from being able to buy them (even if I had the gold which I don’t (50,000 each) ). There’s a staff of power but chances are someone will buy that long before I can, so I was thinking about settling for the wolb lol...any other suggestions for a 2h?

[Feign]

Fantastic writeup, but I disagree with the assessment of taking a dip in Warlock being "no just no". In the case of an Alchemist, taking two levels in Warlock means you can brew two Elixers on every short rest. Even ignoring any other thing that you could get from Warlock, that's worth two levels, and probably worth not making Charisma a dump stat.

Go ahead and make one of those beginning Infusion choices Replecate Magic Item: Perfume of Bewitching to really capitalize on actually having Charisma during those out-of-combat encounters.

[werescythe]

So I'm doing an alchemist artificer multiclassing into a necromancy wizard, now I'm just wondering would it be worth it just going in for 2 wizard levels or should I try to go up to 6?

[MaxWilson]

So I'm doing an alchemist artificer multiclassing into a necromancy wizard, now I'm just wondering would it be worth it just going in for 2 wizard levels or should I try to go up to 6?

Necromancer 6 is fantastic, to the point of being so OP that the game becomes dull. What I've seen is that Necromancer players voluntarily pull back and either create just a handful of skeletons, or switch to other characters, lest they stomp encounters flat with hordes of concentration-free minions.

If you're attracted to the idea of Necro 6, it's definitely worth checking out.

[werescythe]

Necromancer 6 is fantastic, to the point of being so OP that the game becomes dull. What I've seen is that Necromancer players voluntarily pull back and either create just a handful of skeletons, or switch to other characters, lest they stomp encounters flat with hordes of concentration-free minions.

If you're attracted to the idea of Necro 6, it's definitely worth checking out.

Yeah, I've really been considering it. Although the war cleric in the party might not like it, lol (she was a little upset when I offered to replace her missing hand with a new one... which may or may not have come off another dragonborn's body).

[jaappleton]

Two questions:

1. Any plans on covering the UA? At the time of writing, specifically the Armorer and the Infusions introduced in the same article?

2. In a very similar vein, just a few days ago, Keith Baker (creator of Eberron) released on the DMs Guild a book called Exploring Eberron. It provides two new Artificer subclasses, multiple new infusions as well. Specifically the Maverick Artificer and the Forge Adept. While its not an official WOTC book, I think there's a ton of reasons to include it. Specifically because... Well, its from the guy who literally made Eberron, and the Artificer class itself as well.

Side note: If you are interested in seeing the book, quite specifically the subclasses, for the purposes of review for the guide you've made, DM me.