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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    The way I see it, anyone can cause serious harm and destruction with commonly available items, yet very, very few people try that. For one, most people are not sociopaths, but even those that are, think of the consequences as those kind of deeds are severly punished. The more dangerous would be subtle spells like mind reading and control. Clever and manipulative people can be dangerous even without magic. If they got spells reflecting their personality and desires it could cause huge problems. It is also a matter of being able to catch magic criminals and so on.

    And even if it was possible to ramp up everyones magic resistance, it is not nearly enough, since it is very easy to circumvent it: magical explosives could still destroy buildings and being buried under ruble is not at all magical. Simple telekinesis could be used to slip some poison or mind-altering substances to someones food or drink and so on. Remote viewing spells like Sarah's do not even rely on affecting humans and are still dangerous in wrong hands.

    It is always possible to adapt to new circumstances as humanity did for thousands of years, but this takes time and there will be a lot of unforseen problems coming up.
    You seem to be thinking of the magical equivalent of cars or handguns - things with extremely obvious potential for danger if used carelessly or maliciously. Most of your examples fall into this category.

    The bigger danger is the magical equivalent of social media - something that appears completely innocuous at first, but if misused can cause an incredible degree of harm. Imagine a spell that dampens emotions around you a little. Seems harmless - you can prevent fights or bring an overly-excited friend to a measure of sanity. Now imagine the potential effects of using it too much, or for selfish gain.

  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    You seem to be thinking of the magical equivalent of cars or handguns - things with extremely obvious potential for danger if used carelessly or maliciously. Most of your examples fall into this category.

    The bigger danger is the magical equivalent of social media - something that appears completely innocuous at first, but if misused can cause an incredible degree of harm. Imagine a spell that dampens emotions around you a little. Seems harmless - you can prevent fights or bring an overly-excited friend to a measure of sanity. Now imagine the potential effects of using it too much, or for selfish gain.
    True, I did not comment on those, so to speak, emergent problems. To be perfectly honest though, everything can be misused - every single spell, ability or everyday item. There is still the danger of unforseen and unwanted consequences and EGS actually provides an example, what migh be an effect of a calming spell - lack of emotions means lack of fear, shame, empathy or restrain.

    Again though, there are many examples in history of people learning of some very detrimental effects of seemingly great solutions to this or that problem. Medicine of late XIX and early XX century is ripe with examples like this amazingly effective caugh syrup called heroin or all the radioactive craze with radon infused water, creams and anything they could have thought of. A lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible. Still, we eventually correct things.
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  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Diane: the voice of reason.

    There's a sentence I'd never would've expected to write in an EGS context.

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  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Honestly, all of the things she's talking about are already things that happen. Educating the masses about magic makes them more able to recognise these threats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    Honestly, all of the things she's talking about are already things that happen. Educating the masses about magic makes them more able to recognise these threats.
    But it may also make them happen more, because it becomes easier to get access to magic. Increased recognition does not necessarily equate to increased ability to do anything about it, as noticed by Diane in the specific case of "they catch you by surprise with something that leaves you without enough will to attempt to resist it", and various examples of weapon-spells that resistance wouldn't work on, for which the only thing awareness gets you is increased knowledge that anyone not visibly armed might nevertheless be able to do any number of things. You can't go everywhere protected from all possible threats even without magic, but magic makes the typical "some things are too rare to worry about all the time" judgement much harder by making a wide range of previously unlikely-or-impossible dangers both more common and less visible.
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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    thing is, this would all happen eventually anyways. and people are always in danger, no matter how unadvanced or advanced things are, people always suffer and die, its just statistical inevitability, but if you change things you at least change the reasons why it happens so that the suffering is less bad and shorter. and with magic there are just as many ways to counter the harm that magic itself does. its the whole medical knowledge conundrum where you know how the body works to heal it....but that also spreads knowledge of how to better harm it. the only thing you can do is promise not to do harm with it. basically, this problem is inherent with almost technological advances and the answer is pretty much always figuring out proper ethical guidelines for using that tech and holding everyone strictly to those safety standards.
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    A thought that just occurred to me: In the Escape from the Mall NP storyline, after Akiko catches Rhoda using magic, we get a sequence of Mr. Kitsune trying to spoil Akiko with cookies but his attempts at indulging her are foiled by her unusual levels of maturity and only moderate appetite.

    Literally the only other time we see Mr. Kitsune is him sitting there doing nothing while Mama Kitsune is being a bad mom.

    So... Is he playing favorites with Akiko, or is he actually a big softy that's intimidated by his wife's demeanor and overcompensate for her borderline abusive strictness when she's not around?
    Last edited by Rater202; 2020-07-16 at 05:30 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    A thought that just occurred to me: In the Escape from the Mall NP storyline, after Akiko catches Rhoda using magic, we get a sequence of Mr. Kitsune trying to spoil Akiko with cookies but his attempts at indulging her are foiled by her unusual levels of maturity and only moderate appetite.

    Literally the only other time we see Mr. Kitsune is him sitting there doing nothing while Mama Kitsune is being a bad mom.

    So... Is he playing favorites with Akiko, or is he actually a big softy that's intimidated by his wife's demeanor and overcompensate for her borderline abusive strictness when she's not around?
    Another way to read it is this: Nanase's problems are so far above Mr. Kitsune's pay grade he'd need a space shuttle to get close. Of all of them, the fact that Nanase has been trying to come to grips with being a lesbian is probably the easiest for him to grasp. Magic, monsters, aliens, governmental conspiracies, extra-dimensional quasi-deific faeries... This is his wife's world, even if she doesn't like it, and he really can't do anything to help prepare or protect his elder daughter. Akiko, on the other hand, has not shown herself to be magically inclined, has a very sensible head on her young shoulders, and her problems are trying to make sense of the latest youth-oriented movie or TV show. Akiko is, in other words, Mr. Kitsune's speed, something he can deal with. And the fact that she's too mature to even properly bribe makes it all the more pleasant.
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  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Another way to read it is this: Nanase's problems are so far above Mr. Kitsune's pay grade he'd need a space shuttle to get close. Of all of them, the fact that Nanase has been trying to come to grips with being a lesbian is probably the easiest for him to grasp. Magic, monsters, aliens, governmental conspiracies, extra-dimensional quasi-deific faeries... This is his wife's world, even if she doesn't like it, and he really can't do anything to help prepare or protect his elder daughter. Akiko, on the other hand, has not shown herself to be magically inclined, has a very sensible head on her young shoulders, and her problems are trying to make sense of the latest youth-oriented movie or TV show. Akiko is, in other words, Mr. Kitsune's speed, something he can deal with. And the fact that she's too mature to even properly bribe makes it all the more pleasant.
    Dude, no. Magic has nothing to do with this.

    He just sits there and does nothing while Mama Kitsune criticizes Nanase for nothing and then proceeds to shut down the conversation when Nanase makes a good point that Mama Kitsune can't counter instead of admitting that she's wrong, in reference to perfectly mundane topics.

    But then he tries and fails to spoil the younger daughter.

    There are really only two explanations: Either he's playing favorites, or he's overcompensating for Mama Kitsune's behavior when she's not around.

    We have no reason to suspect that Dad Kitsune even knows about magic beyond what the average civilian knows.
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  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Dude, no. Magic has nothing to do with this.

    He just sits there and does nothing while Mama Kitsune criticizes Nanase for nothing and then proceeds to shut down the conversation when Nanase makes a good point that Mama Kitsune can't counter instead of admitting that she's wrong, in reference to perfectly mundane topics.

    But then he tries and fails to spoil the younger daughter.

    There are really only two explanations: Either he's playing favorites, or he's overcompensating for Mama Kitsune's behavior when she's not around.

    We have no reason to suspect that Dad Kitsune even knows about magic beyond what the average civilian knows.
    I can't really agree, but I respect the stance. It'll be a good twenty years before we find anything conclusive out anyway, so it's all in good fun.
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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Those were probably scam artists and not selling anything magical, so it is fine.
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  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    Those were probably scam artists and not selling anything magical, so it is fine.
    I mean, even in the real world, people sell magical objects that don't do anything.
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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    EGS NP: oh hey we've finally found the guard song that is a good accompaniment to "With Catlike Tread". just as have this guard sing be sung in between stanzas of With Catlike Tread with the guard completely unaware of the other song being sung to complete the joke.
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Elliot's apology is a bit much. I don't know if that's supposed to be his character, or if Shive has semi-forgotten that the conversation he is referencing is only a day or so ago and Elliot would have had little chance to tell Ashley about it.

  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Elliot has always been way too hard on himself. He thinks of himself as a Perfect Hero and hates himself whenever he doesn't live up to his unrealistic standards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    Elliot has always been way too hard on himself. He thinks of himself as a Perfect Hero and hates himself whenever he doesn't live up to his unrealistic standards.
    Its more he's terrified of himself/what he might do. Recall explanation for not going 100% against Nanase at the dojo. Fri 19 April 2002 strip.

  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    Elliot's apology is a bit much. I don't know if that's supposed to be his character, or if Shive has semi-forgotten that the conversation he is referencing is only a day or so ago and Elliot would have had little chance to tell Ashley about it.
    Well, I think the point is that he never intended to tell her (or, at least, strongly considered never telling her), and that's what he's apologizing for. It's not just a "I haven't had the chance" scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    Its more he's terrified of himself/what he might do. Recall explanation for not going 100% against Nanase at the dojo. Fri 19 April 2002 strip.
    I think it's safe to say that an 18 year old page is probably not very relevant anymore. I'd be genuinely shocked if Dan even remembers a detail from that long ago.
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  18. - Top - End - #498
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Well, I think the point is that he never intended to tell her (or, at least, strongly considered never telling her), and that's what he's apologizing for. It's not just a "I haven't had the chance" scenario.
    It still feels off, but it could quite reasonably be a Elliot Thing. Logically, he's not even had the time to consider bringing it up.

  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    EGS NP: oh hey we've finally found the guard song that is a good accompaniment to "With Catlike Tread". just as have this guard sing be sung in between stanzas of With Catlike Tread with the guard completely unaware of the other song being sung to complete the joke.
    Offenbach did that already.

    Where you have the brigands' song about hiding and stealing be regularly interrupted by the Carabinieri arriving singing this:

    We are the Carabinieri
    We protect your family
    But by an unfortunate twist of fate
    In our defense of citizens ordinary
    We arrive, we arrive, we arrive, always too late
    Always too late
    Always too late
    Always
    Too
    Late

    They completely fail to see the brigands "hiding" right next to them, and leave, and the brigands resume singing about stealing stuff.
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  20. - Top - End - #500
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    Its more he's terrified of himself/what he might do. Recall explanation for not going 100% against Nanase at the dojo. Fri 19 April 2002 strip.
    That was explicitly been retconned into him making up something to be dramatic for the sake of the exhibition match the day that he brought Sarah along to try and get her enrolled or whatever.

    Whatever the original plan was for Elliot what with summoning inner demons wasn't tenable for the story and was scrapped or something along those lines.
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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I would, at the very least, think that Tedd would be given a magic detection wand when his magic lab opens up.

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I don't think Dan actually means "Tedd cannot put her hands on a magic detection wand even if she desperately wants to" to be a plot point.

    On an unrelated note, I don't suppose anyone knows a simple way to enable my browser to filter out the commentary section, so I can see the comic but not the text below it.

    (Do I dare be optimistic that no wit will respond with something about self-control, as though that could stop my eyes from picking up words at first glance even if I consciously focused them on the comic as soon as the page loaded.)

  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I like the note that Edward might have destroyed the unnecessarily frightening wand of detect magic after finding out that Tedd is literally the strongest kind of wizard that we know about.

    It is all but outright stated that Noriko abandoned Tedd and Edward becuase Tedd didn't have magical powers.

    The only reason they thought that was becuase the wand frightened Tedd enough to instinctively act against its detection spell.

    Ergo, there's a very real possibility that the flaws in that wand's design cost him his marriage.
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  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I don't think Dan actually means "Tedd cannot put her hands on a magic detection wand even if she desperately wants to" to be a plot point.

    On an unrelated note, I don't suppose anyone knows a simple way to enable my browser to filter out the commentary section, so I can see the comic but not the text below it.

    (Do I dare be optimistic that no wit will respond with something about self-control, as though that could stop my eyes from picking up words at first glance even if I consciously focused them on the comic as soon as the page loaded.)
    You have various options.

    If you are OK with addons, you can install AdBlock, right click on the page, select "block an ad in this page", bring your mouse right below "Commentary", which should highlight the whole block, and click. The addon will ask you if you want to block
    Code:
    < DIV
    id="news" >
    say yes. I've tried it out now, and it works sitewide.

    If you don't want to install an addon, and if your screen isn't so large that it can show both page and text, you can open the website in a background tab and wait for a few seconds, until it's finished loading, after which you can just scroll until the page is over and close the tab without having seen the commentary.

    I can understand not wanting to read the text: I also don't want to. The comic has its strength, but it also is already sufficiently exasperating about explaining every little detail, and commentary makes it even worse.
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  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Thanks! I actually already had Adblock Plus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Ergo, there's a very real possibility that the flaws in that wand's design cost him his marriage.
    While I kind of hate to agree with Nanase's mother, all the wand can be credited/blamed for is exposing what an awful person Noriko was. "If not for this wand, I'd still be married to someone who would have walked out if Tedd hadn't been a wizard!" is not a reason to be mad at the wand.

    But "This thing doesn't reliably work" is a good reason to stop using it.
    Last edited by Kish; 2020-08-03 at 05:22 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Thanks! I actually already had Adblock Plus.

    While I kind of hate to agree with Nanase's mother, all the wand can be credited/blamed for is exposing what an awful person Noriko was. "If not for this wand, I'd still be married to someone who would have walked out if Tedd hadn't been a wizard!" is not a reason to be mad at the wand.

    But "This thing doesn't reliably work" is a good reason to stop using it.
    Eh. It's resistible, so even apart from the rare case of an infant with absurd amounts of resistance, it couldn't reliably confirm that an adult isn't magic... but we have no evidence that it's fallible on determining whether someone does have magic (and whether they're awakened), if they want to check.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Thanks! I actually already had Adblock Plus.

    While I kind of hate to agree with Nanase's mother, all the wand can be credited/blamed for is exposing what an awful person Noriko was. "If not for this wand, I'd still be married to someone who would have walked out if Tedd hadn't been a wizard!" is not a reason to be mad at the wand.

    But "This thing doesn't reliably work" is a good reason to stop using it.
    If Tedd is correct (and I am sure she is) Edward didn't just stop using the wand, but broke it. This implies he is directing anger towards the wand. It is most likely this anger come from information that made an event he was already angry over even worse and directed his anger towards an inanimate object related to that event.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2020-08-04 at 02:25 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Thanks! I actually already had Adblock Plus.

    While I kind of hate to agree with Nanase's mother, all the wand can be credited/blamed for is exposing what an awful person Noriko was. "If not for this wand, I'd still be married to someone who would have walked out if Tedd hadn't been a wizard!" is not a reason to be mad at the wand.

    But "This thing doesn't reliably work" is a good reason to stop using it.
    Edward can't break Noriko, breaking her would not be the appropriate action to take, and he may still have feelings for her.

    Especially since Pandora claims that part of the reason they tested Tedd repeatedly and obsessively was fear that their enemies would target Tedd and Tedd wouldn't be able to defend himself. Edward might think that Noriko left and went no-contact to keep any monster that escaped her hunts from coming after Tedd for vengeance... Which, may actually be true. The evidence points to Noriko being a bitch but the evidence also pointed to Pandora being evil instead of a good person suffering from chronic mental illness.

    Regardless, the flaws in the Wand's design could be blamed for the break-up and thus, becomes a functional proxy for any anger, resentment, or the like that Edward feels over the divorce.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  29. - Top - End - #509
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Windscion's Avatar

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Well, I was right about the hero of magic being Jill. So that's something, even if no one cares.
    << Pats self on back.

  30. - Top - End - #510
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Vinyadan's Avatar

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Edward can't break Noriko, breaking her would not be the appropriate action to take, and he may still have feelings for her.

    Especially since Pandora claims that part of the reason they tested Tedd repeatedly and obsessively was fear that their enemies would target Tedd and Tedd wouldn't be able to defend himself. Edward might think that Noriko left and went no-contact to keep any monster that escaped her hunts from coming after Tedd for vengeance... Which, may actually be true. The evidence points to Noriko being a bitch but the evidence also pointed to Pandora being evil instead of a good person suffering from chronic mental illness.

    Regardless, the flaws in the Wand's design could be blamed for the break-up and thus, becomes a functional proxy for any anger, resentment, or the like that Edward feels over the divorce.
    I don't think Pandora ever was good. If you choose to get drunk while you're carrying a gun, it's your fault if you shoot someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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