El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

[Lord Raziere]

I think it's very pensive for kids. Until Painted Black, it was very animey and I can see this part as 11+, but later it got very slow, meandering, and focused on not-so-exalting challenges (like the uniforms).

Yeah, you'd have to change a few things to make it work as a kids show. it doesn't have well defined enough plots to keep peoples attention because its way too focused on explaining this or that or exploring a characters whatever, its too slow and thoughtful, but I can see an EGS show being something like Steven Universe or new She-Ra as long as you can define arcs and problems for them to have some drama over, instead of the webcomic's style where its very low drama because Dan has made his writing too sensible.

[Celestia]

Yeah, you'd have to change a few things to make it work as a kids show. it doesn't have well defined enough plots to keep peoples attention because its way too focused on explaining this or that or exploring a characters whatever, its too slow and thoughtful, but I can see an EGS show being something like Steven Universe or new She-Ra as long as you can define arcs and problems for them to have some drama over, instead of the webcomic's style where its very low drama because Dan has made his writing too sensible.

This is just a difference in medium. Dan's slow writing style doesn't negatively impact the already slow webcomic medium. As long as each page has individual merit as entertainment, the comic is fine, no matter how long it takes to get to the point. Comparing it to a TV show (or Netflix series) is like apples and oranges.

[Rater202]

Would it be sappy for me to say that reading EGS when I was younger probably made me a better person?

[Vinyadan]

Dan's slow writing style doesn't negatively impact the already slow webcomic medium. As long as each page has individual merit as entertainment, the comic is fine, no matter how long it takes to get to the point.

I disagree on this. First, I don't think each page has individual merit (a page not too long ago was just people swapping places), and, second, if every page had more individual merit, it would be a better experience.

Would it be sappy for me to say that reading EGS when I was younger probably made me a better person?

I think it's actually very possible. EGS deals with many kinds of people going through a hard time, many of them belonging to minorities you might not have met before, treated as people rather than checkboxes, and with an attention towards depicting their everyday feelings and experience rather than a militant "us against our enemies" attitude.

[Celestia]

I disagree on this. First, I don't think each page has individual merit (a page not too long ago was just people swapping places), and, second, if every page had more individual merit, it would be a better experience.

Well, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

[Windscion]

So the mirror door basically uses a cell phone UI.

[CrypticUnhlpfl]

So the mirror door basically uses a cell phone UI.

Frustratingly imprecise and making one wish that more than three physical buttons were included on the device?

...Sounds about right for this comic, actually.

[CrypticUnhlpfl]

Double-posting, if people don't mind...

Honestly if I had a dollar for every game that gave you a choice of endings where it's obvious the player could have done something better than any of them, I'd be very wealthy indeed. A lot of people are going to think of Mass Effect here, but I'll go for Deus Ex instead. Both the new one and the original.

As far as the new main comic goes? Clearly Shive is either psyching us out or letting go of another one of the little brakes he puts on his characters. It will be interesting to see which it winds up being.

[Celestia]

Double-posting, if people don't mind...

Honestly if I had a dollar for every game that gave you a choice of endings where it's obvious the player could have done something better than any of them, I'd be very wealthy indeed. A lot of people are going to think of Mass Effect here, but I'll go for Deus Ex instead. Both the new one and the original.

As far as the new main comic goes? Clearly Shive is either psyching us out or letting go of another one of the little brakes he puts on his characters. It will be interesting to see which it winds up being.

Yeah, all three endings to Fable 2 just kinda sucked. The "good" ending has you resurrecting all the people killed during the construction of the macguffin tower, which changes precisely nothing about the game world, itself. You do get a statue in Bowerstone Old Town, though. So that's...something. Only pick this ending to get the achievement.

The "evil" ending gives you a free million gold. Now, that is a lot of hold, but it's still worthless. You probably already had three mil in your pocket from your landowning business. Plus, it's literally the end of the game. There's nothing left to buy. Only pick this ending to get the achievement.

Finally, the "neutral" ending resurrects your sister and dog who were both killed by the bad guy. (I have no idea why "resurrect everyone killed by the villain" didn't bring them back, but whatever.) Reviving your sister is irrelevant because you never see her if you do, but the dog has an actual mechanical purpose in the game, a purpose that is required for at least two exclusively post-game side quests. This is literallythe only ending worth picking. Of course, if you got the Knothole Island DLC, you can actually bring the dog back for free without picking this ending, making the sole worthwhile ending also worthless.

On the whole, it was all just garbage.

[Mystic Muse]

I thought you could only buy Fairfax castle after the game ended, but it's been ages since I played any but the first Fable, so I may be wrong.

[Yuki Akuma]

I thought you could only buy Fairfax castle after the game ended, but it's been ages since I played any but the first Fable, so I may be wrong.

Yeah, and it costs a million gold. Which you probably have anyway.

[CrypticUnhlpfl]

Yeah, and it costs a million gold. Which you probably have anyway.

I've honestly never been able to decide if that's a deliberate theme of the Fable games. Something like... crime pays, but there are easier and less harmful ways to get the same result if you're even just slightly creative.

Fable 3 especially, what with all the (attempts at) moral choices at the end of the game.

[Kish]

I think Jay recoiled from the idea of believing that the seer is not evil due to concluding that if he is evil in this simulation, that's Grace's opinion of him, and her goals here would not be well served by taking a contrary position to Grace.

[Windscion]

He put her in manacles. This is not usually the action of a good person, and Jack/Jay/Jill isn't going to forget that until she has a reason to reevaluate.
The easiest people to fool are people who (i) think they are smarter than you, and (ii) think they are smarter than they actually are. Her quick recovery suggests decent horse sense.

[Rater202]

Grace hates hiding things about herself.

Arthur's job is to hide those things.

Grace has had worries about Arthur would cancel Tedd's lab because she confided in a close friend her secrets.

Edward, who Grace sees as a father figure, has said that Arthur can't be trusted.

Grace has empathetic senses: I don't recall if she's ever met Arthur in person, but if she has... Arthur is a bad person.

He's jingoistic, but only when it benefits him or his goals and goes against the sated ideals of his country when they're inconvenient. He made the unilateral decision to strip away the magical powers of literally everyone in the world without consulting anyone and was willing to let people die and open expose the existence of magic to do so when his job is to prevent both of the things from happening, and he's a hypocrite: He wants to hunt down Magus for making a young girl cry when he himself would have been willing to do nothing and let people die in pursuit of his own goals, making him, in fact, a much worse person than Magus based on the limited information he possesses.

H is, for now, an ally of the protagonists... But that could change in a heartbeat and I figure that everyone in the main cast knows it.

[Maat Mons]

You can be a good guy and still put people in manacles. You just have to limit yourself to putting bad guys in manacles.

And Jay might be an evil wizard who deliberately trapped a bunch of people in a nightmare she crafted for the purpose of spying on their innermost thoughts and desires.

Rhoda's definitely a good guy though. There's no excuse for cuffing her.

[Lizard Lord]

You can be a good guy and still put people in manacles. You just have to limit yourself to putting bad guys in manacles.

And Jay might be an evil wizard who deliberately trapped a bunch of people in a nightmare she crafted for the purpose of spying on their innermost thoughts and desires.

Rhoda's definitely a good guy though. There's no excuse for cuffing her.

Part of the mystery of the situation is the fact that Jay believes she would never do such a thing, even if she had a spell for it, which she believes she doesn't.

[Lord Raziere]

Elliot is every Undertale player in this latest comic.

[JeenLeen]

I've thought, ever since Elliot's freakout about what job he'd possibly do after high school / what to study in college, that him being a magic cop in whatever-bureau Tedd's dad works in would make sense. I can definitely see it not being obvious to him, but he's a by-the-books kinda person who respects law and authority, and he's definitely got the toughness and magic for it.

On the other hand, he's so Good (in certain cliche ways) that I see him having trouble being a good operative in a general sense. Like, I reckon his boss would to a degree be a handler sending him to particular jobs and keeping him ignorant of others. I wonder to a degree if the reason Dan had him learn about police violence was to give him a reason IC not to be a magic cop in the future.

On a 'third' hand, I wonder how being a monster slayer pays. Monsters (in the sense of Not-Tengu human-monsters or Abominations) probably amass a lot of wealth, so slaying them and keeping their stuff seems a good career move if Elliot becomes pragmatic enough to kill but not so pragmatic he wants to be a government operative. (I don't see Elliot-as-killer in Dan's comic, though. Like, I could see him potentially killing someone at some point and feeling horrible about it as a dramatic arc, but not becoming okay with even slaying Abominations. Well, maybe Abominations, but not more human-ish 'monsters'.)

[Fyraltari]

I've thought, ever since Elliot's freakout about what job he'd possibly do after high school / what to study in college, that him being a magic cop in whatever-bureau Tedd's dad works in would make sense. I can definitely see it not being obvious to him, but he's a by-the-books kinda person who respects law and authority, and he's definitely got the toughness and magic for it.

On the other hand, he's so Good (in certain cliche ways) that I see him having trouble being a good operative in a general sense. Like, I reckon his boss would to a degree be a handler sending him to particular jobs and keeping him ignorant of others. I wonder to a degree if the reason Dan had him learn about police violence was to give him a reason IC not to be a magic cop in the future.

He's very benevolent but he's not dumb, either. He probably could end up accpeting some "for the greater good" type things. In fact he's exactly the kind of person you want to be making these kind of calculations, the kind who don't settle for anything other than the absolutely lesser evil. Psychological councelling would be required though.

On a 'third' hand, I wonder how being a monster slayer pays. Monsters (in the sense of Not-Tengu human-monsters or Abominations) probably amass a lot of wealth, so slaying them and keeping their stuff seems a good career move if Elliot becomes pragmatic enough to kill but not so pragmatic he wants to be a government operative. (I don't see Elliot-as-killer in Dan's comic, though. Like, I could see him potentially killing someone at some point and feeling horrible about it as a dramatic arc, but not becoming okay with even slaying Abominations. Well, maybe Abominations, but not more human-ish 'monsters'.)

Of all the aberrations (plus not-Tengu) only Sirleck seemed to have any wealth, in fact, that he was counting on the profite motive to keep his gang in check indicates that the others were relatively short on cash. Which makes sense, being good at killing people and being good at earning money aren't related.

[Windscion]

Yeah, Sirleck was able to hide in plain sight, as it were. Not all abberations seem to have been able to do that very well, which would have made it harder to amass wealth.
Well, I'm assuming Spider, Snake and Centaur didn't have perfectly human morphs.

[JeenLeen]

And Jay might be an evil wizard who deliberately trapped a bunch of people in a nightmare she crafted for the purpose of spying on their innermost thoughts and desires.

Part of the mystery of the situation is the fact that Jay believes she would never do such a thing, even if she had a spell for it, which she believes she doesn't.

Dan also confirmed in the commentary that the backstory stuff we're learning about Jay is canon even if this story/dream itself is not. (Which... I really, really dislike in a narrative sense, as where Jay stood in position to the main cast was an interesting question. To already know essentially that's she's a basically good but magic-seeking wizard is disappointing.) So the exact spells she has might not be canon, but that she's essentially 'good' or neutral enough to avoid doing such seems established.

Yeah, Sirleck was able to hide in plain sight, as it were. Not all abberations seem to have been able to do that very well, which would have made it harder to amass wealth.
Well, I'm assuming Spider, Snake and Centaur didn't have perfectly human morphs.

Good points. I took the fact that they were accepting mercenary work as meaning that they seek money and, as there is some way to contact them, probably have made money in the past and have a way to maintain it. But that is an assumption I was making that isn't established.

Also, as we know being an Aberration isn't linked to being a spellcaster (right? At least, not a wizard), it's reasonable several wouldn't have human forms without a spell that grants it.
Did canon ever establish if someone can Awaken after becoming an aberration? For some reason, the metaphysics of "can be a wizard/awakened then turn aberration, but can't do it once you're no longer human" makes sense to me.

On that note, an aberration-seer who can make a wand to let people become aberrations just occurred to me. I doubt we'd see it, with the author's sensibilities, but it seems something potentially possible given the metaphysics (especially now with restrictions lifted.)

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, Sirleck was able to hide in plain sight, as it were. Not all abberations seem to have been able to do that very well, which would have made it harder to amass wealth.
Well, I'm assuming Spider, Snake and Centaur didn't have perfectly human morphs.

Spider may not but Snake and Centaur were at the mall right? Then they would need to have a human morph. In fact it seems likely that most* abberations have the ability to turn back into their original form as part of the package.

Good points. I took the fact that they were accepting mercenary work as meaning that they seek money and, as there is some way to contact them, probably have made money in the past and have a way to maintain it. But that is an assumption I was making that isn't established.

It makes sense. However, abberations are most likely constantly trying to evade the police and unlikely to work together because of the whole "no empathy" deal. So how their mercenary network would work is anyone's guess.

Also, as we know being an Aberration isn't linked to being a spellcaster (right? At least, not a wizard)

We know that Gullet being both an aberration and a wizard was unusual. However, becoming an abberation has to be somenkind of magical effect and given how magic works the only ways to have access to it would be to awaken and be the kind of person who wants to turn into a vampire.

On that note, an aberration-seer who can make a wand to let people become aberrations just occurred to me. I doubt we'd see it, with the author's sensibilities, but it seems something potentially possible given the metaphysics (especially now with restrictions lifted.)

Yeah but that'd be phenomenally stupid. Like, why on Earth would you willingly turn somebody else into an anthropophagic monster with no capacity for empathy? That's just asking to become meal #1.


*Sirleck no longer had a body so he probably couldn't.

[Windscion]

Snake and Centaur could have had help getting inside, but I take your point.
Also, to use money they would need to pass as human, most of the time.
I shoulda have thought a bit more before I opened my trap.

[Rater202]

This is the single most wholesome fight that anyone has ever had in the history of everything.

[Celestia]

This is the single most wholesome fight that anyone has ever had in the history of everything.

"You're a good person!" >:(
"GASP!" >:O

[Fyraltari]

"You're a good person!" >:(
"GASP!" >:O

How dare you praise my character, you tremendous individual ?!

[Radar]

How dare you praise my character, you tremendous individual ?!

Are you by any chance familiar with this little story?

[CrypticUnhlpfl]

Are you by any chance familiar with this little story?

...Huh. I am like 60% sure this is from an old written DnD story, just modified slightly. That one used grappeling, I think?

[Fyraltari]

Are you by any chance familiar with this little story?

Yes I am, and I no I wasn't thinking about it.