El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

[Celestia]

It would have made Tedd's relationship with Lord Tedd more stringent (REVENGE! POWER! MUST BE STRONGER THAN IMMORTALS!).

Isn't that storyline on permanent ice? I think I remember one of the commentaries implicitly saying that it was never going to happen. I could be mistaken, though.

[tyckspoon]

Isn't that storyline on permanent ice? I think I remember one of the commentaries implicitly saying that it was never going to happen. I could be mistaken, though.

I recall Dan stating that he had introduced/mentioned Lord Tedd waaayyyy before he was really ready to do the storyline, but nothing indicated he was never planning to go back to it at some point. 'course with Dan's speed of plot progression being what it is and his general difficulty in doing bad things to his characters, the point where they're 'ready' to try and do Lord Tedd may indeed never come.

[Rater202]

Lord Tedd gets a shoutout every couple of years and at the end of last Sister we were reminded that ellen's gonna be having a visit with the skunk-girl she shared the Second Life with.

[mucat]

It'd also caused problems for Tedd and Grace--unless Edward was loaded, they're basically out of a home. Even if he owned the house outright and left everything to Tedd, there's still properties taxes, inheritance taxes, funeral costs.

Mama Kitsune would probably take Tedd in, but I'm not seeing a traditional Japanese Mama letting her nephew's girlfriend live with them.

Financially, Tedd and Grace would almost certainly be fine. Inheritance taxes are far less onerous than some folks like to claim -- depending on the actual year the story is set, the two could inherit somewhere from about $2 million (in the early 2000s) to $11 million (in 2019), before paying any estate taxes at all -- and given his line of work, I can't imagine Mr. Verres skimping on life insurance, at least enough to fund their educations through their undergrad years.

Tedd and Grace are legal adults, or very close to it, so no one would be "taking in" either of them without their consent. They could choose to keep the house or sell it (it's probably got plenty of equity, even if not owned outright) and move to a proper mad scientists' lair of their choosing.

I know Dan would never have the heart to kill off a major "good guy" character and traumatize others, but the reason isn't that Tedd and Grace would end up destitute.

[Celestia]

I recall Dan stating that he had introduced/mentioned Lord Tedd waaayyyy before he was really ready to do the storyline, but nothing indicated he was never planning to go back to it at some point. 'course with Dan's speed of plot progression being what it is and his general difficulty in doing bad things to his characters, the point where they're 'ready' to try and do Lord Tedd may indeed never come.

Lord Tedd gets a shoutout every couple of years and at the end of last Sister we were reminded that ellen's gonna be having a visit with the skunk-girl she shared the Second Life with.

Ah, I see. And now that you mention it, I do remember that Ellen reference.

[Rater202]

Financially, Tedd and Grace would almost certainly be fine. Inheritance taxes are far less onerous than some folks like to claim -- depending on the actual year the story is set, each of the two could inherit somewhere from about $2 million (in the early 2000s) to $11 million (in 2019), before paying any estate taxes at all -- and given his line of work, I can't imagine Mr. Verres skimping on life insurance, at least enough to fund their educations through their undergrad years.

Tedd and Grace are legal adults, or very close to it, so no one would be "taking in" either of them without their consent. They could choose to keep the house or sell it (it's probably got plenty of equity, even if not owned outright) and move to a proper mad scientists' lair of their choosing.

I know Dan would never have the heart to kill off a major "good guy" character, but the reason isn't that Tedd and Grace would end up destitute.

being a legal adult and being able to live on your own are two very different things: Tedd still gets an allowance.

Graces works part-time at a comic book shop.

Food, water, power, property taxes... Living on your own is expensive. Even with Life insurance and a decent amount of money put away, they'd have to get somekind of income fast if they intended to live on their own or they'd burn through everything and that's assuming that Grace and Tedd are emotionally mature enough to adult properly 24/7.

[halfeye]

Moperville has two high schools. It ain't small.

That depends on your definition of small. For a village, two schools is big, for a town, I wouldn't say it was big and for a city, I'd definitely call only two secondary schools small.

[Mechalich]

That depends on your definition of small. For a village, two schools is big, for a town, I wouldn't say it was big and for a city, I'd definitely call only two secondary schools small.

US high schools generally cap at around 2000 students, often significantly less. Given current demographics, this means Moperville probably has betweem 40k and 75k residents. That puts it in the 'small city' category.

Based on the politics/general vibe of the place it scans as being somewhere on the east coast, but inland a bit and not particularly close to a major city. A comparable location might be Middletown, Connecticut, or Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

[Lissou]

Either way with Elliot being in high school, even if he hasn't seen other students smoke because they've been discreet, he certainly should have smelled many of them already.

Unless he's surprised that she started smoking so late. 16 is definitely late to be starting, but then again I don't know what things are like in EGSverse. And I've known people who started smoking in their 40s so I guess you can start at any age, really.

[Vinyadan]

US high schools generally cap at around 2000 students, often significantly less. Given current demographics, this means Moperville probably has betweem 40k and 75k residents. That puts it in the 'small city' category.

Based on the politics/general vibe of the place it scans as being somewhere on the east coast, but inland a bit and not particularly close to a major city. A comparable location might be Middletown, Connecticut, or Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Moperville is probably based on Naperville. I mean, it probably used to be, back at the start. Because of this commentary, I assume that it's at least in the Midwest: https://egscomics.com/comic/2010-04-12 I remember having a little discussion in the old EGS forum about how odd I found that calamari was considered unusual by the characters, and I was told that it was quite normal in that area.

I have a question, though: are all high schools the same in America? Aren't there different kinds of school for different perspective jobs? Like one school for workers (e.g. masons and electricians), one for technicians, one for teachers... In this case, I would expect Moperville North and South to be of the same kind, with many other schools for students with different targets.

[Rater202]

No.

There are public schools(run by the state), private schools(for profit), church-run schools, and charter schools but the curriculum is, at least supposed to be, the same(every so often a non-public school might try to get away with teaching something or not teaching something else, but that's usually becuase of an agenda by the people running it.)

Specialization in curriculum comes after that--Technical schools, college, Law School, Medical school.

and even then, it's often not separated--My university is known for engineering but my degree is in history.

[Lord Raziere]

No.

There are public schools(run by the state), private schools(for profit), church-run schools, and charter schools but the curriculum is, at least supposed to be, the same(every so often a non-public school might try to get away with teaching something or not teaching something else, but that's usually becuase of an agenda by the people running it.)

Specialization in curriculum comes after that--Technical schools, college, Law School, Medical school.

and even then, it's often not separated--My university is known for engineering but my degree is in history.

Yeah, I mean in practice there is probably different budgets and such in different states probably leading to different qualities of school, depending on the states political leanings and priorities, like my own high school system was pretty good with only 500 students, but I've heard some schools teach 1000, mostly in big cities, and that many americans are actually some of the worst educated students in the world, statistically speaking, yet at the same time of the top ten colleges in the world, eight are american, the other two are UK. but generally, its supposed to be the same all-around classical education curriculum. wikipedia actually refers to it as "american education crisis". so. that tells you everything there, its actually kind of screwed up.

so as with everything in America, our best is higher than everyone elses, but our worst or average is lower than most.

[mucat]

There are also public high schools that specialize heavily in certain areas, though they still expect their students to take a full standard high school curriculum. Bronx School of Science, San Francisco School of the Arts, Brooklyn Latin (specializing in the classics). Essentially, the idea is that "You will study everything a normal high school student would study, and then in THIS area, you will go way beyond that."

Also, to avoid confusion, in the U.S., "public" means a state-funded and regulated school, "private" means a non-state-funded, more loosely regulated one where students either pay (often heavy) tuition or attend on scholarships. I understand that in the UK, and perhaps other places, the terms are used pretty much the opposite way around.

[halfeye]

Also, to avoid confusion, in the U.S., "public" means a state-funded and regulated school, "private" means a non-state-funded, more loosely regulated one where students either pay (often heavy) tuition or attend on scholarships. I understand that in the UK, and perhaps other places, the terms are used pretty much the opposite way around.

Sort of, but not quite. Public schools were old schools where any member of the public who could afford the fees could send their children. They were different from private schooling, where the Lord or whatever paid a tutor to teach his child, and any other pupils were at the Lords behest (sort of the expensive way to do homeschooling).

Discussion of free or state schooling would take us from history into politics, beside which I don't know the current details.

[GiantFlyingHog]

Yes. Just all of the yes to today's comic.

[Adaon Nightwind]

Indeed. This is beautiful.

[Celestia]

...Really? The word boner doesn't fit the "tone" of EGS? *sigh*

[halfeye]

...Really? The word boner doesn't fit the "tone" of EGS? *sigh*

Have you read the NSFW comic "bonequest" (used to be jerkcity)? that certainly doesn't fit the tone of EGS (not sure that it fits the tone of anything?)

[Rater202]

Dan has really toned down the lewd humor since egs's early days and when nudity does happen it's in the context of personal choices and comfort over fanservice(even if fanservice is a secondary part of it.)

You might have a point if this was still the early 2000s, but I think it makes sense nowadays.

[Celestia]

That sigh isn't because I think he's wrong or hypocritical. It's because I'm disappointed that he's being completely earnest. EGS has become so goddamn sanitized that even Rainbow Brite is more intentionally controversial. It's dumb and boring. If this comic were given an MPAA rating, I'd be surprised if it got anything higher than a G, maybe a PG for the combat in the last arc.

[Forum Explorer]

This isn't a particularly offensive example, so I don't care that much. But it is more evidence towards the whole 'Dan is one of the few authors who has gotten worse with time,' thing I like to say.

[Rater202]

Altruism fetish really isn't that much more sanitized than Altruism Boner.

[Vinyadan]

I like how Pandora spends three pages checking for rain with her hand while talking with Heka. http://egscomics.com/comic/2017-04-05

I personally don't see much issue with not wanting to use a vulgar word. QC, for example, would have done the opposite, and used boner because it's vulgar.

EGS has always had a somewhat odd behaviour with taboos. It's, like, stop and go. So no one has sex (or, at least, no one talks or thinks about himself having sex), but people talk or think about not having sex.

Exceptions: Raven has to talk about it. Ellen says that she has sexy plans. But, for example, when Ellen talks about sex with Archie, she also says that he wasn't into it, and also rejects that memory as something that doesn't refer to her (she uses third person talking about the Ellen who had sex with Archie).

[Mechalich]

This isn't a particularly offensive example, so I don't care that much. But it is more evidence towards the whole 'Dan is one of the few authors who has gotten worse with time,' thing I like to say.

Actually, in my experience indicates that the majority of extremely lengthy long-running works tend to decline in quality over time. It's true in giant doorstopper fantasy series, it's true in manga, and it's true in webcomics. There are structural reasons for this, such as large long-running works trending endlessly towards narrative-killing cast bloat. There are also simple human reasons for this, such as boredom - it is extremely difficult to invest maximum creative effort in the same thing for multiple decades. There are also character reasons for this, as you can really only wring so much drama out of any given fictional person, and after enough developmental events people tend to settle into stable patterns (especially if you're relying on relationship drama, since eventually people end up in good ones).

The world of webcomics also seems to be afflicted with financial incentives that run against storytelling, especially in the Patreon era. The only audience that actually matters for EGS is the 1432 patreon contributors, and the author really can't risk offending them, which promotes a rather defensive storytelling posture. Taking artistic risks when you basically have to pre-censor yourself to a committee is not an easy task, especially when the story has been churning on so long that it long ago departed from any original plans that might have existed.

At the end of the day though, a lot of really massive works tend to peak somewhere in the middle - often at a point that can be recognized, given hindsight, as the finale of the part the author had planned from the beginning - and then slowly slide down thereafter. The good ones manage to conclude before completely crashing and burning, the bad ones not so much. Personally I think EGS still has a lot going for it, but for all that there have been significant plot developments lately the characters have been spinning their wheels a lot.

[Rater202]

I like how Pandora spends three pages checking for rain with her hand while talking with Heka. http://egscomics.com/comic/2017-04-05

I personally don't see much issue with not wanting to use a vulgar word. QC, for example, would have done the opposite, and used boner because it's vulgar.

EGS has always had a somewhat odd behaviour with taboos. It's, like, stop and go. So no one has sex (or, at least, no one talks or thinks about himself having sex), but people talk or think about not having sex.

Exceptions: Raven has to talk about it. Ellen says that she has sexy plans. But, for example, when Ellen talks about sex with Archie, she also says that he wasn't into it, and also rejects that memory as something that doesn't refer to her (she uses third-person talking about the Ellen who had sex with Archie).

EGS is the most perverted squeaky clean comic on the net.

I honestly just figure that's part of the charm, that paradox.

On characters having sex: A sketchbook from Sep 8, 2002, has Tedd actively thinking about how he should approach his and Grace's first time... Specifically in response to Tedd's father having let slip that Grace was engineered so that she could only get pregnant in human form...

...I wonder if that's an inherant thing or a specific property of her other two natural forms.

[Mith]

EGS is the most perverted squeaky clean comic on the net.

I honestly just figure that's part of the charm, that paradox.

On characters having sex: A sketchbook from Sep 8, 2002, has Tedd actively thinking about how he should approach his and Grace's first time... Specifically in response to Tedd's father having let slip that Grace was engineered so that she could only get pregnant in human form...

...I wonder if that's an inherant thing or a specific property of her other two natural forms.

My guess is that Grace doesn't have a uterus, because her race (don't recall the spelling), reproduce with the external egg that is fertilised, not a laid fertilised egg.

Granted, that plot point was brought on in early 2000s, so that much thought may not have been put into it.

[Fyraltari]

My guess is that Grace doesn't have a uterus, because her race (don't recall the spelling), reproduce with the external egg that is fertilised, not a laid fertilised egg.

Granted, that plot point was brought on in early 2000s, so that much thought may not have been put into it.

Humans and squirrels both have one though.

[Mith]

Humans and squirrels both have one though.

True. My argument would have been that as a quirk of Grace being able to make an egg on her own without another partner, it would be fair to say that she doesn't have a uterus and is conventionally sterile.

This doesn't work with what's written, but it was my thought when I read that part when I first discovered this comic.

[HorizonWalker]

Grace isn't just a human/squirrel hybrid, she's also got a bit of alien in there too. And those aliens, we know for a fact, reproduce via externally-fertilized eggs; that is, eggs that get laid, then get fertilized. It was a big thing, back at the beginning.

[Vinyadan]

Today's strip reminds us that Grace is an alien.