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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    While I honestly like the idea of spell points, I don't like how they are implemented in Unearthed Arcana. Because of this I have developed two rival spell point systems for use and I would like to know if either of them are any good.

    First System: Spell slots into spell points take 1.

    All spell points are equal to the spell level times the number of spell slots. For example: four fourth level spell slots would be equal to 16 spell points under this system. The price of a spell would be its level in spell points. 0 level spells count for half points.

    Virtues of the system:

    The spell slot to spell point conversion is easy to remember and use.

    Vices of the System:

    None yet noticed.

    Second System: Spell slots into spell points take 2.

    This is the same as option two but with spell points and costs doubled.

    Virtues of the system:

    The same as option number two.

    Vices of the System:

    None yet noticed.

    Tables: Option 1

    Cleric

    Code:
    Cleric
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       2.5           1
     2       4             1
     3       6             2
     4       9.5           2
     5      12.5           3
     6      17.5           3
     7      23             4
     8      30             4
     9      37             5
    10      46             5
    11      58             6
    12      67             6
    13      80             7
    14      93             7
    15     110             8
    16     127             8
    17     143             9
    18     160             9
    19     181             9
    20     198             9
    
    This is of course all before you convert domain slots.
    Druid

    Code:
    Druid
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       2.5           1
     2       4             1
     3       6             2
     4       9.5           2
     5      12.5           3
     6      17.5           3
     7      23             4
     8      30             4
     9      37             5
    10      46             5
    11      58             6
    12      67             6
    13      80             7
    14      93             7
    15     110             8
    16     127             8
    17     143             9
    18     160             9
    19     181             9
    20     198             9
    Sorcerer

    Code:
    Sorcerer
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       5.5           1
     2       7             1
     3       8             1
     4      15             2
     5      17             2
     6      28             3
     7      33             3
     8      50             4
     9      69             4
    10      74             5
    11      83             5
    12     106             6
    13     117             6
    14     153             7
    15     166             7
    16     188             8
    17     206             8
    18     238             9
    19     255             9
    20     273             9
    Wizard

    Code:
    Wizard
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       2.5           1
     2       4             1
     3       6             2
     4       9             2
     5      12             3
     6      25             3
     7      29.5           4
     8      36.5           4
     9      43.5           5
    10      57.5           5
    11      66.5           6
    12      77.5           6
    13      92.5           7
    14     105.5           7
    15     118.5           8
    16     135.5           8
    17     149.5           9
    18     166.5           9
    19     177.5           9
    20     190.5           9
    Tables: Option 2

    Cleric

    Code:
    Cleric
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       5             1
     2       8             1
     3      12             2
     4      19             2
     5      25             3
     6      35             3
     7      46             4
     8      60             4
     9      74             5
    10      92             5
    11     116             6
    12     134             6
    13     160             7
    14     186             7
    15     220             8
    16     254             8
    17     286             9
    18     320             9
    19     362             9
    20     396             9
    
    This is of course all before you convert domain slots.
    Druid

    Code:
    Druid
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       5             1
     2       8             1
     3      12             2
     4      19             2
     5      25             3
     6      35             3
     7      46             4
     8      60             4
     9      74             5
    10      92             5
    11     116             6
    12     134             6
    13     160             7
    14     186             7
    15     220             8
    16     254             8
    17     286             9
    18     320             9
    19     362             9
    20     396             9
    Sorcerer

    Code:
    Sorcerer
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1      11             1
     2      14             1
     3      16             1
     4      30             2
     5      34             2
     6      56             3
     7      66             3
     8     100             4
     9     138             4
    10     148             5
    11     166             5
    12     212             6
    13     234             6
    14     306             7
    15     332             7
    16     376             8
    17     412             8
    18     476             9
    19     510             9
    20     546             9
    Wizard

    Code:
    Wizard
    
    Level   S.P.      Maximum Spell Level
     1       5             1
     2       8             1
     3      12             2
     4      18             2
     5      24             3
     6      50             3
     7      59             4
     8      73             4
     9      87             5
    10     115             5
    11     133             6
    12     155             6
    13     185             7
    14     211             7
    15     237             8
    16     271             8
    17     299             9
    18     323             9
    19     357             9
    20     391             9
    Spell point costs per spell level.

    Code:
    Spell
    level   Method 1      Method 2
     0          .5           1
    1st         1            2
    2nd         2            4
    3rd         3            6
    4th         4            8
    5th         5           10
    6th         6           12
    7th         7           14
    8th         8           16
    9th         9           18
    This will also be combined with the recharge magic variant.
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2007-11-01 at 03:02 PM.
    On the issue of killer or sadistic DMs.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    That sort of person is not worthy of being a Game Master of any sort. The GM is there to entertain and bring enjoyment to the player group, thus being entertained and enjoying himself likewise. Soneone that finds pleasure in making others unhappy is a sad case indeed. That kind of GM should be left alone to lurk in online MMP games to ambush newbies' characters as they enter the setting :]

    Cheers,
    Gary

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    I'm only bringing this up because I first posted this a month ago and recieved no replies. Also, under this system a spellcaster can spend no more spell points on a single spell than his or her level plus one, or level plus one divided by two.
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2007-10-31 at 12:09 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Seems like they are functionally TOTALLY identical, with only the numbers that get used any different.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Seems like they are functionally TOTALLY identical, with only the numbers that get used any different.
    There is a third one, but it's much more complicated. In the third system 0 level spell slots are multiplied by one while all other spell slots are multiplied by square routes of two. 1st level spell slots equal 2 spell points while 4th level spells and spell slots equal 16 spell points. At 20th level primary spellcasters can have around 4,000 or 5,000 spell points before ability bonuses and 9th level spells would cost 512 points each. Ultimately I decided not to post that one here.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    vegetalss4's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Malagigi View Post
    I'm only bringing this up because first posted this a month ago and recieved no replies. Also, under this system a spellcaster can spend no more spell points than his or her level, or level times two.
    you need to word this one better or it sounds like they can cast level 9 spells in level nine

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Quote Originally Posted by vegetalss4 View Post
    you need to word this one better or it sounds like they can cast level 9 spells in level nine
    I'll change it to half the caster's level plus one or the casters full level plus one.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    I've tried similar things, and I have found a problem. By simply adding up the spell slots, you, in fact, give spellcasters a lot more flexibility. This is not bad, in and of itself, but just think for a moment. At level 20, a Wizard has 190 spell points - this means she can cast 21 9th level spells. At that point, things are really unbalanced, as the higher level spells are really powerful.
    Two suggestions, one harsh, one a bit gentler.
    Harsh: Make the point cost for spells additive. Hence, level 1 spells cost 1, level 2 cost 3, level 3 cost 6, etc.
    Gentle(r): Multiply your total by a fixed percentage, ie 90% or 85%. That reduces their power level a bit without loosing the flexibility entirely.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Should I combine my spell point system with spell recharge or use some other ballancing method?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    i would ask you to post the complicated third option that uses squares of levels. that option should avoid the problem of 'my wizard spends all his points on his top level spells because i really don't need any level 2 spells'

    4000 points total, with 9th level spells costing 500 points means that if that wizard spends all his points on 9th level spells he'll only get 8 spells, which seems balanced. to get the most spells, you would clearly go with the number listed in the book, which makes sense. (or with more lower level spells, which again should be ok)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Cleric

    Code:
    Cleric
    
     1          5
     2          8
     3         12
     4         19
     5         27
     6         31
     7         56
     8         82
     9        118
    10        166
    11        240
    12        336
    13        484
    14        676
    15        972
    16      1,356
    17      1,948
    18      2,716
    19      3,388
    20      4,156
    
    This is of course all before you convert domain slots.
    Druid

    Code:
    Druid
    
     1          5
     2          8
     3         12
     4         19
     5         27
     6         31
     7         56
     8         82
     9        118
    10        166
    11        240
    12        336
    13        484
    14        676
    15        972
    16      1,356
    17      1,948
    18      2,716
    19      3,388
    20      4,156
    Sorcerer

    Code:
    Sorcerer
    
     1         11
     2         14
     3         16
     4         30
     5         34
     6         62
     7         74
     8        130
     9        154
    10        266
    11        314
    12        538
    13        634
    14      1,082
    15      1,274
    16      2,170
    17      2,554
    18      4,346
    19      5,114
    20      6,138
    Wizard

    Code:
    Wizard
    
     1          5
     2          8
     3         12
     4         18
     5         26
     6         38
     7         56
     8         80
     9        116
    10        164
    11        244
    12        324
    13        468
    14        660
    15        948
    16      1,332
    17      1,908
    18      2,676
    19      3,316
    20      4,084
    Spell costs per level

    Code:
    Spell        Spell Point
    Level        Cost
     0             1
     1             2
     2             4
     3             8
     4            16
     5            32
     6            64
     7           128
     8           256
     9           512

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Okay, this is going to look like naysaying, but, by using the squaring technique, you have now created another balance problem. A 20th level sorceror can now cast Magic Missle 6000+ time a day. That means she's flinging around a little over 30,000 individual, low-power but hit automatically attacks. That will soften up most armies pretty effectively. Again, a serious balance issue.
    One thing I have tried when doing a magic point system is to increase the cost for "scaling" spells, such as MM. The first costs 1 MP, each additional costs 1 more MP, up to the maximum for your level. Fireball, 3 MP gives you 1d6; each additional MP gives you an additional 1d6, up to your maximum. This isn't perfect (and what about non-scaling spells, hmmm?), but it is a bit better balanced.
    I must confess, I've never come up with a satisfactory MP system for D&D, and I'm dubious about whether it can be done (and we haven't even started about how your players will react ) . I'm glad somebody else is trying it, though.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Then I'll combine the other two methods in the first post with spell recharge. Would that work?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    I'm afraid I don't know what "spell recharge" is; I've only got the core books plus a coupe of others; none on magic. Rather than explain it to me, go with your gut.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kvenulf View Post
    I'm afraid I don't know what "spell recharge" is; I've only got the core books plus a coupe of others; none on magic. Rather than explain it to me, go with your gut.
    Basically recharge magic means that you have to wait a certain period of time between castings of a speicific spell. Under spell recharge rules you couldn't cast another augury until 6 hours after casting the same spell. See the "recharge magic" link in my first post. And yes, I will use this system in combination with magic recharge.
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2007-11-02 at 01:55 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two spell point methods of mine for review.

    *Looks at link he was too careless to notice earlier*

    Okay, go for it. Your magic point system will at least keep these guys from blasting all day and all night. I don't think I'll be giving it a whirl, as this looks like an awful lot of dice-rolling and record keeping for me. But each to their own tastes! Enjoy, let me know how it works for you.

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