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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Update: Here's the final version

    Marionette
    4th Level Necromancy
    Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when a humanoid you can see within 60 feet of you dies.
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a puppet's string)
    Duration: Special
    Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock

    You trap the soul of a dying humanoid in it's own body and make it into an undead servant. The creature gains a number of hit points equal to half of its maximum. The creature must follow your commands to the best of its ability, although it is not friendly and may resent being controlled. At the end of each of the creature's turns, it must make a charisma saving throw. On a success, it's soul escapes and the body becomes a normal corpse. Due to the trauma inflicted on the soul, it cannot be resurrected for a year and a day unless True Resurrection or Miracle is cast.

    The controlled creature retains all of its abilities, statistics, and proficiencies it had in life but cannot grow more powerful, regain lost spell slots, or regain expended abilities.

    You may only control one creature with Marionette at a time. If you cast this spell again while you control a creature, the soul of the previously controlled creature escapes as if it had passed its saving throw.

    At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level, the creature only makes a saving throw once per minute. At 6th level, this increases to once per hour. At 7th level, once per day, and at 8th level it lasts for a year and a day. At 9th level the effect is permanent.



    =========================

    Original Post:

    Marionette
    4th Level Necromancy
    Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when a humanoid you can see within 60 feet of you dies.
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a small puppet)
    Duration: Special
    Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock
    You trap the soul of a dying creature in it's own body and make it into an undead servant. The creature gains a number of hit points equal to half of its maximum. The creature must follow your commands to the best of its ability, although it is not friendly and may resent being controlled. At the end of each of the creature's turns, it may make a charisma saving throw. On a success, it's soul escapes and the body becomes a normal corpse.

    You may only control one creature with Marionette at a time. If you cast this spell again while you control a creature, the soul of the previously controlled creature escapes as if it had passed its saving throw.

    At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level, the creature only makes a saving throw once per minute. At 6th level, this increases to once per hour. At 7th level, once per day, and at 8th level it lasts for a year and a day. At 9th level the effect is permanent.
    Last edited by Pharylon; 2019-04-04 at 10:21 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Extremely long lasting/permanent, non concentration, arbitrarily powerful minions sounds a little broken.

    Besides that, you should specify the capabilities of the creature. Can it use any ability it could use before hand? Cause in that case its basically a reaction revivify. Is it treated like a Zombie or Skeleton?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Extremely long lasting/permanent, non concentration, arbitrarily powerful minions sounds a little broken.

    Besides that, you should specify the capabilities of the creature. Can it use any ability it could use before hand? Cause in that case its basically a reaction revivify. Is it treated like a Zombie or Skeleton?
    It's not a zombie or skeleton. It's itself, just under your thrall. I didn't really think about using it on another PC. It's more meant to be used on a badguy, since you're binding their soul to your service and all. :D But you're right, it would be really good to use in the middle of a fight when a PC goes down. I definitely need to come up with some downside to make it not optimal for casting on a PC. Maybe it does something to the soul, and after the effect wears off the creature can't be resurrected for a year or something?

    Also, do you think some language similar to Simulacrum might be reasonable? No growing more powerful, regaining spells or other abilities that refresh per day or actions that recharge. That kind of thing.
    Last edited by Pharylon; 2019-03-21 at 03:30 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    It's not a zombie or skeleton. It's itself, just under your thrall. I didn't really think about using it on another PC. It's more meant to be used on a badguy, since you're binding their soul to your service and all. :D But you're right, it would be really good to use in the middle of a fight when a PC goes down. I definitely need to come up with some downside to make it not optimal for casting on a PC. Maybe it does something to the soul, and after the effect wears off the creature can't be resurrected for a year or something?

    Also, do you think some language similar to Simulacrum might be reasonable? No growing more powerful, regaining spells or other abilities that refresh per day or actions that recharge. That kind of thing.
    Yeah, I'd say if it can never regain abilities/HP, it SHOULD be okay.

    Perhaps also add a clause that says "Any special abilities that can be used at-will can only be used a number of times equal to the level of the spell that it was cast from," to prevent shenanigans like that. (Obviously this doesn't apply to normal actions-so you can Attack infinitely, till you die (again), but it also helps make it less appealing to players-who wants to be a Rogue with only six uses of Cunning Action?)
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    OK, how about this for the new description (changes in bold);

    You trap the soul of a dying creature in it's own body and make it into an undead servant. The creature gains a number of hit points equal to half of its maximum. The creature must follow your commands to the best of its ability, although it is not friendly and may resent being controlled. At the end of each of the creature's turns, it may must make a charisma saving throw. On a success, it's soul escapes and the body becomes a normal corpse. Due to the trauma inflicted on the soul, it cannot be resurrected for a year and a day except by True Resurrection or Miracle.

    The controlled creature's type changes to Undead, and it retains all of its abilities, statistics, and proficiencies it had in life but cannot grow more powerful, regain lost spell slots, or regain expended abilities that are only usable a number of times per day or recharge based on dice rolls.

    You may only control one creature with Marionette at a time. If you cast this spell again while you control a creature, the soul of the previously controlled creature escapes as if it had passed its saving throw.
    Last edited by Pharylon; 2019-03-21 at 03:44 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    OK, how about this for the new description (changes in bold);

    You trap the soul of a dying creature in it's own body and make it into an undead servant. The creature gains a number of hit points equal to half of its maximum. The creature must follow your commands to the best of its ability, although it is not friendly and may resent being controlled. At the end of each of the creature's turns, it makes a charisma saving throw. On a success, it's soul escapes and the body becomes a normal corpse. Due to the trauma inflicted on the soul, it cannot be resurrected for a year and a day except by True Resurrection or Miracle.

    The controlled creature's type changes to Undead, and it retains all of its abilities, statistics, and proficiencies it had in life but cannot grow more powerful, regain lost spell slots, or regain expended abilities that are only usable a number of times per day or recharge based on dice rolls.

    You may only control one creature with Marionette at a time. If you cast this spell again while you control a creature, the soul of the previously controlled creature escapes as if it had passed its saving throw.
    Still has an issue with powerful at-will spells.

    I'm not super well-versed in the various monsters of 5E, but I'm sure SOME OF THEM have a spell at-will that REALLY should not be available to players.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    It's not a zombie or skeleton. It's itself, just under your thrall. I didn't really think about using it on another PC. It's more meant to be used on a badguy, since you're binding their soul to your service and all. :D But you're right, it would be really good to use in the middle of a fight when a PC goes down. I definitely need to come up with some downside to make it not optimal for casting on a PC. Maybe it does something to the soul, and after the effect wears off the creature can't be resurrected for a year or something?

    Also, do you think some language similar to Simulacrum might be reasonable? No growing more powerful, regaining spells or other abilities that refresh per day or actions that recharge. That kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Yeah, I'd say if it can never regain abilities/HP, it SHOULD be okay.

    Perhaps also add a clause that says "Any special abilities that can be used at-will can only be used a number of times equal to the level of the spell that it was cast from," to prevent shenanigans like that. (Obviously this doesn't apply to normal actions-so you can Attack infinitely, till you die (again), but it also helps make it less appealing to players-who wants to be a Rogue with only six uses of Cunning Action?)
    Yup I agree with that. I'd maybe allow for casting this spell again as the only way of "healing" HP to the creature (but not restoring abilities), it would require some other creature to die as that's the trigger and would shred parts of the soul to "heal" 4 HP per slot to the active marionette instead of replacing it, with a new one (To be honest, though, I tend to turn spells I like into mini sublasses and that's not always a good approach :P, maybe its better that it cant be healed

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Still has an issue with powerful at-will spells.

    I'm not super well-versed in the various monsters of 5E, but I'm sure SOME OF THEM have a spell at-will that REALLY should not be available to players.
    Well, it does only target humanoids. But I can see your point. There well might be something, somewhere that would be bad.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    Well, it does only target humanoids. But I can see your point. There well might be something, somewhere that would be bad.
    Oh, it's humanoids only?

    Missed that.

    In that case, I don't THINK it'd be an issue.

    Maybe just add a disclaimer about at-will abilities should be looked at? Because something like Cunning Action is fine to have at-will, something like Plane Shift ain't.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    Well, it does only target humanoids. But I can see your point. There well might be something, somewhere that would be bad.
    Well, yeah, but if a spell is perfectly balanced for 999 creatures and theres 1 that makes it broken, the problem likely isn't with the spell.

    Since it can only target humanoids, I'd maybe cap the duration at 1 day, and have the caster spend a slot everyday to reassert control alla animate dead/create undead, and simply add more creture types for lvl 8 and 9 slots.

    Having a slots tax for a powerful minion is perfectly reasonable (maybe actually desired, for balance reasons)
    Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-03-21 at 03:53 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Oh, it's humanoids only?

    Missed that.

    In that case, I don't THINK it'd be an issue.

    Maybe just add a disclaimer about at-will abilities should be looked at? Because something like Cunning Action is fine to have at-will, something like Plane Shift ain't.
    Yeah, under Casting Time I say it only targets a dying humanoid, but I just call it a "creature" elsewhere, so that's poor wording on my part.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Well, yeah, but if a spell is perfectly balanced for 999 creatures and theres 1 that makes it broken, the problem likely isn't with the spell.

    Since it can only target humanoids, I'd maybe cap the duration at 1 day, and have the caster spend a slot everyday to reassert control alla animate dead/create undead, and simply add more creture types for lvl 8 and 9 slots.

    Having a slots tax for a powerful minion is perfectly reasonable (maybe actually desired, for balance reasons)
    I like that idea. Once you're casting 9th level spells, the game is kind of broken all-around anyway, so allowing other types can't hurt, right?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    I like that idea. Once you're casting 9th level spells, the game is kind of broken all-around anyway, so allowing other types can't hurt, right?
    No, and no.

    The game isn't broken (barring Wish-Simulacrum cheese, for the most part) at 17th level, and making broken stuff isn't good regardless of the current state of balance.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    No, and no.

    The game isn't broken (barring Wish-Simulacrum cheese, for the most part) at 17th level, and making broken stuff isn't good regardless of the current state of balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    I like that idea. Once you're casting 9th level spells, the game is kind of broken all-around anyway, so allowing other types can't hurt, right?
    TBH, by 9th level slots you can have a Pit Fiend wish planar binded for a year and a day. That thing has fireball at will. And you can keep binding a different creature every day. Truth is Wizards are broken by 9th level spell slots.

    However, that's not a reason to break it further. With the limitation of no recharging of abilities and HP, and I'd say "at will abilities become recharge on 6", plus having to spend a slot every day to reassert control, I think the spell would be somewhat on par with planar binding/ally and similar minion granting stuff.

    EDIT: Maybe add a minor cost component? Gem worth 1000 gp as focus (not consumed), for nonhumanoid types?
    Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-03-21 at 04:26 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Thanks, JNAProductions and Rukelnikov! You really helped me make this better. This is the "final" version.

    Marionette
    4th Level Necromancy
    Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when a humanoid or beast you can see within 60 feet of you dies.
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a puppet's string)
    Duration: Special
    Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock

    You trap the soul of a dying humanoid or beast in it's own body and make it into an undead servant. The creature gains a number of hit points equal to half of its maximum. The creature must follow your commands to the best of its ability, although it is not friendly and may resent being controlled. At the end of each of the creature's turns, it must make a charisma saving throw. On a success, it's soul escapes and the body becomes a normal corpse. Due to the trauma inflicted on the soul, it cannot be resurrected for a year and a day unless True Resurrection or Miracle is cast.

    The controlled creature retains all of its abilities, statistics, and proficiencies it had in life but cannot grow more powerful, regain lost spell slots, or regain expended abilities.

    You may only control one creature with Marionette at a time. If you cast this spell again while you control a creature, the soul of the previously controlled creature escapes as if it had passed its saving throw.

    At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level, the creature only makes a saving throw once per minute. At 6th level, this increases to once per hour. At 7th level, once per day, and at 8th level it lasts for a year and a day. At 9th level the effect is permanent.
    Last edited by Pharylon; 2019-04-04 at 10:22 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharylon View Post
    Thanks, JNAProductions and Rukelnikov! You really helped me make this better. This is the "final" version my DM has agreed to. The only thing I've added is beast targeting (mostly because my Necromancer is also a Druid magic initiate, and has a nature thing going for her too).
    Great, have fun!!

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Spell: Marionette [PEACH]

    I'd love to hear the design goal and intended use before I voice my opinions, if the OP doesn't mind :)

    Note to self: read before posting.

    I like the newest version. Please put it in the first post for others who might want to use it for their characters :)
    Last edited by Bjarkmundur; 2019-03-24 at 04:28 PM.
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