An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

[Ir0ns0ul]

Introducing, the Arcane Blade.

... AWESOME BUILD!

Really great build and setup, thanks for that! I never thought about how Mobile could be useful for an AT abusing Booming Blade. You can explore big time hit-run-hide tactics and give a huge pain for the enemies. It's like a magical trapper ninja -- get your Owl familiar to Help, Booming Blade SA your enemy, move back without repercussion (Mobile) and then hide with your bonus action (Cunning Action). Great catch!

Spells
Level 3 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud
Level 4 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud, Disguise Self
Level 5 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Grease, Detect Magic, Expeditious Retreat

If you allow me some suggestions: I believe you selected too much Concentration spells that will conflict sometimes. I understand you don't so have many slots to spend, but I would recommend more utility and variation for your level 3 and 4 selection, like Sleep and Charm Person.

For the level 5 selection: why did you pick Expeditious Retreat as one of your spells? I believe Cunning Action already cover your basis with that. You could get better things with that like False Life, PFE&G, more rituals, etc. Perhaps get Longstrider before.

[bendking]

Really great build and setup, thanks for that! I never thought about how Mobile could be useful for an AT abusing Booming Blade. You can explore big time hit-run-hide tactics and give a huge pain for the enemies. It's like a magical trapper ninja -- get your Owl familiar to Help, Booming Blade SA your enemy, move back without repercussion (Mobile) and then hide with your bonus action (Cunning Action). Great catch!

Thank you for the compliments!
I'm not the first to spot that combo, it's kind of a staple for Arcane Trickster as far as I'm concerned, but I'm glad I could educate :)

If you allow me some suggestions: I believe you selected too much Concentration spells that will conflict sometimes. I understand you don't so have many slots to spend, but I would recommend more utility and variation for your level 3 and 4 selection, like Sleep and Charm Person.

For the level 5 selection: why did you pick Expeditious Retreat as one of your spells? I believe Cunning Action already cover your basis with that. You could get better things with that like False Life, PFE&G, more rituals, etc. Perhaps get Longstrider before.

Good catch, I thought that Expeditious Retreat did what it does in 3.5, and it definitely doesn't, so I'll go ahead and replace it with Longstrider earlier and Charm Person later.
The reason I didn't take Sleep is that it doesn't scale well. By the time you can get it, which is level 3, it already starts struggling. It's definitely a very powerful spell at the first few levels, but I can't justify taking it so late.
I also wasn't worried about conflicting concentration spells early on because you only get Shadow Blade at level 7. It might stand to reason to start replacing some of them when you do get it, though.
EDIT: Alright, I do see what you mean for levels 3 and 4. I've replaced Fog Cloud with Grease. Should be less concentration saturation now.

Regarding the rituals, I didn't bother mentioning them because I assume the player will get them through scrolls and spellbooks independently.
All that said, I'll be happy to see what modifications you would make to the spell list if you'd like.

[CMCC]

Introducing, the Arcane Blade.

Pic isn’t working. Not sure if that’s an issue for others.

Also great job on the build. You’ve made rogues interesting to me - and that’s no small feat.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Thank you for the compliments!
I'm not the first to spot that combo, it's kind of a staple for Arcane Trickster as far as I'm concerned, but I'm glad I could educate :).

Booming Blade + Cunning Action is pretty famous, but I have never thought about Mobile in this fashion. This could be a great feat to get as a vHuman AT. Once again, thanks!

Regarding the rituals, I didn't bother mentioning them because I assume the player will get them through scrolls and spellbooks independently.
All that said, I'll be happy to see what modifications you would make to the spell list if you'd like.

It's just personal taste, right? But my changes would be:

Level 3 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Charm Person, False Life
Level 4 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Charm Person, False Life, Disguise Self
Level 5 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Detect Magic, Grease
Level 6 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Longstrider or Fog Cloud, False Life, Alarm, Detect Magic

• I'm not a big fan of Silent Image due to the Concentration requirement and you can cover some things with Minor Illusion.
• I'm also a big fan of Charm Person to avoid unnecessary combats and also at some social situation.
• I know False Life is considered subpar, but at least in my tables THP is always good. I would select False Life earlier than Grease (or other good control spell) because you don't have too many consistent uses for your slots before getting Wizard multiclass -- usually the best choice will be to position/move/hide and attack with advantage to benefit from SA. Once you get things like Shield and Absorb Elements, you will always try to save some 1st level slots, but before that I believe False Life provides good value early on.
• I would also get Mage Armor -- AC is very hard to increase in 5e and sometimes you can see yourself without armor or get cought in surprise (although you can sleep without worries in Studded).
• From level 7 ownards, you pretty much nailed it: Mirror Image, Shadow Blade and etc. Since your Concentration will be usually dedicated to Shadow Blade, I rather get non-Concentration spells in order to avoid conflict and create good synergies.

[Tekrow]

That's a good question, and to be honest, I'm not completely sold on using Rogue either, since Wizards are just so damn powerful. I mainly wanted to make something that is thematically an Arcane Trickster type but better than that class.
That said, I'll still try to list some benefits to Rogue being in this build. Basically, you get the good old Rogue advantages mixed with much better spellcasting, melee damage, and AC, which is exactly what you'd expect.
Early on, you get some Sneak Attack for more melee power than a Bladesinger can muster on its own, and the Dexterity save proficiency which helps a lot on the frontlines.
Then there's Expertise, giving you a measure of utility which is arguably exclusive to the Rogue and Bard, especially with picking locks and disabling traps, both of which are heightened by the AT's Legerdemain.
Later on, you get more Expertise, more Sneak Attack, and the ever great Evasion, which gives you even more staying power on the battlefield.
EDIT: And of course, the fantastic Magical Ambush which lets you open encounters with Hold Peron or Hypnotic Pattern with disadvantage on the saving throw. Thanks to @x3n0n for reminding me.

It does has some worthwhile additions. I've been trying to also make a magic rogue, a nightblade of sorts, but I've always felt that the AT by itself lacks something, so that's why I found your build so interesting.

[bendking]

Pic isn’t working. Not sure if that’s an issue for others.

Also great job on the build. You’ve made rogues interesting to me - and that’s no small feat.

Seems to be trouble with either mobile or a specific mobile browser, because it works for me on PC but not on my phone.

Thanks! I'm glad to hear it, because I actually felt the same way. Arcane Trickster is the only interesting rogue to me, but I found the power level not up to par with other gishes, even though I love the flavor. Thus, I made this build.

Booming Blade + Cunning Action is pretty famous, but I have never thought about Mobile in this fashion. This could be a great feat to get as a vHuman AT. Once again, thanks!

You're most welcome!

It's just personal taste, right? But my changes would be:

Level 3 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Charm Person, False Life
Level 4 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Charm Person, False Life, Disguise Self
Level 5 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Detect Magic, Grease
Level 6 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Longstrider or Fog Cloud, False Life, Alarm, Detect Magic

• I'm not a big fan of Silent Image due to the Concentration requirement and you can cover some things with Minor Illusion.
• I'm also a big fan of Charm Person to avoid unnecessary combats and also at some social situation.
• I know False Life is considered subpar, but at least in my tables THP is always good. I would select False Life earlier than Grease (or other good control spell) because you don't have too many consistent uses for your slots before getting Wizard multiclass -- usually the best choice will be to position/move/hide and attack with advantage to benefit from SA. Once you get things like Shield and Absorb Elements, you will always try to save some 1st level slots, but before that I believe False Life provides good value early on.
• I would also get Mage Armor -- AC is very hard to increase in 5e and sometimes you can see yourself without armor or get cought in surprise (although you can sleep without worries in Studded).
• From level 7 ownards, you pretty much nailed it: Mirror Image, Shadow Blade and etc. Since your Concentration will be usually dedicated to Shadow Blade, I rather get non-Concentration spells in order to avoid conflict and create good synergies.

Oh man, how did I not include Mage Armor? You're totally right, that's a whopping extra 2 AC! We'll be sitting at a pretty 21 AC with Bladesong, reaching 26 with Shield. That is no joke. I'll definitely include this in the build.
Regarding Silent Image, I chose it for its out-of-combat utility, so the Concentration requirement isn't a big deal to me.
Charm Person might be worth including earlier for sure. However, I wouldn't consider False Life personally, because like you said, it's pretty sub-par, especially compared to Grease which I think is one of the best 1st level spells in the game.

Thanks for your suggestions, always interesting to see other variations.

It does has some worthwhile additions. I've been trying to also make a magic rogue, a nightblade of sorts, but I've always felt that the AT by itself lacks something, so that's why I found your build so interesting.

Thank you. As I said, I made this build because I found AT by itself lacking. Happy I can make it interesting for more people.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Oh man, how did I not include Mage Armor? You're totally right, that's a whopping extra 2 AC! We'll be sitting at a pretty 21 AC with Bladesong, reaching 26 with Shield. That is no joke. I'll definitely include this in the build.
Regarding Silent Image, I chose it for its out-of-combat utility, so the Concentration requirement isn't a big deal to me.
Charm Person might be worth including earlier for sure. However, I wouldn't consider False Life personally, because like you said, it's pretty sub-par, especially compared to Grease which I think is one of the best 1st level spells in the game.

Thanks for your suggestions, always interesting to see other variations.

My pleasure! Good to see that I contributed somehow. Mage Armor + Shield + Bladesong is truly game-changer. If you consider Shadow Blade as well, you don’t need to rely on equipments, armors and weapons at all - who says Monks are the only ones who can walk around naked and still be effective, right?

I had exactly the same idea of improving AT capabilities by multiclassing into Wizard. I was planning to run a vHuman (and now I’ll totally consider Mobile as my starter feat) and go War Wizard instead of Bladesinger in order to improve my saving throws big time. AC wouldn’t be stellar like on a Bladesinger, but you can leverage Mirror Image to fill this gap.

One common major weakness of Rogues is saving throws and War Wizard addresses this pretty well.

[Stattick]

Another great thing about AT/Wiz multiclass, is that the Wizard lets you use an arcane focus and ritual cast. You also get a spellbook, so you can add additional spells beyond what you just KNOW. Keep your two spell lists separate, unless your GM doesn't care - Acane Trickster spells are spells you just know, and never need memorize, while Wizard spells must be memorized.

[CMCC]

Another great thing about AT/Wiz multiclass, is that the Wizard lets you use an arcane focus and ritual cast. You also get a spellbook, so you can add additional spells beyond what you just KNOW. Keep your two spell lists separate, unless your GM doesn't care - Acane Trickster spells are spells you just know, and never need memorize, while Wizard spells must be memorized.

Dndbeyond identifies them for you, which is a nice feature that makes it easy to separate class spells.

[Petrocorus]

Introducing, the Arcane Blade.
Race: High Elf
Classes: Arcane Trickster 9/Bladesinger 11
Stats (Point Buy): 8 STR / 17 DEX / 14 CON / 16 INT / 10 WIS / 8 CHA
ASIs: Elven Accuracy, Mobile, +2 DEX, X

You rely quite a lot on concentration spells, notably Shadow Blade. You could use one of the feat improving concentration.

Concerning Mage Armor, it's only a +1 to AC compared to light armor. Not sure it is worth the spell slot.

[Willowhelm]

My pleasure! Good to see that I contributed somehow. Mage Armor + Shield + Bladesong is truly game-changer. If you consider Shadow Blade as well, you don’t need to rely on equipments, armors and weapons at all - who says Monks are the only ones who can walk around naked and still be effective, right?

I've been looking for walk-around-naked-and-still-be-effective builds so i'm curious where your spellbook and your spell components or arcane focus are in this scenario?

EDIT: Forgot to say - I really love the build.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I've been looking for walk-around-naked-and-still-be-effective builds so i'm curious where your spellbook and your spell components or arcane focus are in this scenario?

That’s a very tricky question. However, you don’t actually need your spellbook to cast spells once they are already memorized for the day, the absence of your spellbook only prevents you to change your spells selection after a long rest.

For spell components or arcane focus, indeed, I don’t think you can easily get rid of this. But spells that don’t require Material component can still be used, so I guess it’s more a matter of careful planning and choice. EDIT: Shadow Blade is only S, V. Mage Armor, however, requires a Material... too bad.

[bendking]

My pleasure! Good to see that I contributed somehow. Mage Armor + Shield + Bladesong is truly game-changer. If you consider Shadow Blade as well, you don’t need to rely on equipments, armors and weapons at all - who says Monks are the only ones who can walk around naked and still be effective, right?

I had exactly the same idea of improving AT capabilities by multiclassing into Wizard. I was planning to run a vHuman (and now I’ll totally consider Mobile as my starter feat) and go War Wizard instead of Bladesinger in order to improve my saving throws big time. AC wouldn’t be stellar like on a Bladesinger, but you can leverage Mirror Image to fill this gap.

One common major weakness of Rogues is saving throws and War Wizard addresses this pretty well.

Since you don't need Elven Accuracy I would also consider either Warcaster or Sentinel for your build.
Warcaster makes you tankier by threatening enemies with Booming Blade OA and Sentinel has amazing synergy with Mirror Image allowing you to trigger Sneak Attacks by enemies attacking your mirror images.

You rely quite a lot on concentration spells, notably Shadow Blade. You could use one of the feat improving concentration.

Concerning Mage Armor, it's only a +1 to AC compared to light armor. Not sure it is worth the spell slot.

AC has increasing returns, so I would say an additional +1 AC is definitely worth the spell slot once per day.
Also, thanks for correcting me that it's a +1, and not a +2 over light armor.

[Klorox]

You rely quite a lot on concentration spells, notably Shadow Blade. You could use one of the feat improving concentration.

Concerning Mage Armor, it's only a +1 to AC compared to light armor. Not sure it is worth the spell slot.

You can always either swap out spells (AT), or just choose not to memorize them (wizard).

Mage Armor is worth it.

[bendking]

Introducing, the Holy Avenger.


Technically you get wings at level 20...

This is pretty much your cookie-cutter Sorcadin. I just felt like building this one since no one here has yet, and I wanted to share my take on what would be the most optimal Sorcadin build.
As always, feedback is very much welcome, since the purpose of these builds is to optimize a concept as much as possible.

Race: Variant Human
Classes: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 6/Sorcerer (Divine Soul) 14
Stats (Point Buy): 16 STR, 8 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 16 CHA
ASIs: Resilient (CON), Warcaster, +2 CHA, +2 CHA, X
Weapon: Longsword & Shield
Fighting Style: Dueling

Level Progression
Contingent on whether you can get your hands on a Strength boosting item, you should progress one of two ways.
Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 14 (if you have one) or Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 8 --> Hexblade 1 --> Sorcerer 13

Metamagic
As any good Sorcerer optimizer knows, our spell selection should be highly affected by our Metamagic choice.
Here, I suggest you take Quicken, which in my eyes is mandatory on a Sorcadin (and is something every gish waters his mouth at), and while the second spot is flexible, I favor Twinned, since this makes you the best buffer in the game, and is a role that only a Sorcerer can excel at. Combined with your great saves and Warcaster, buffing in combat becomes incredibly powerful and reliable.

Spell Selection
(X = pick according to taste)
[ ] = Oath Spells

Cantrips
Level 7 - Booming Blade, Firebolt, Chill Touch, X

Spells
2 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith Protection from Evil and Good, Wrathful Smite, [Bane, Hunter's Mark]
5 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil and Good | Warding Bond, Aid, [Hold Person, Misty Step]
7 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements
8 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements, X
9 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image
10 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, X
11 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball
12 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball, Haste
13 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X
14 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster
15 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster, Holy Weapon

From here on, pick according to preference.

Note:
If the following spells aren't already covered by your party members, you need to take them: Healing Word, Counterspell, Revivify.

Combat Tips
Let's go over Metamagic combos. Since you have a lot of high-level slots with no appropriately leveled spells, that means you have a lot of Sorcery Point fuel.
Quicken is amazing with a lot of spells depending on the situation, but a special mention goes out to Mirror Image which we wouldn't have picked were it not for Quicken making it a highly efficient tanking spell. Hold Person and Hold Monster are also incredibly powerful with Quicken since you can cast them and then immediately smite for insane crits.
Twinned is mainly there for Greater Invisibility. The usual issue with Twinning Greater Invisibility is that you need to be either adjacent to two melee-focused allies or "waste" one of the casts on yourself. Here, casting it on yourself is far from a waste. This is an incredible buff for any melee combatant, but doubly so for tanks and damage dealers. We only use Haste for one level since it's a dangerous prospect on the front-lines, even though you have a great CON save and Warcaster I prefer not to take the risk. Choosing between casting Haste/Greater Invisibility and Spirit Guardians depends on whether you want to use your Sorcery Points on Twinning the buff or not. That said, Twinned also works well with Protection from Good and Evil and Shield of Faith.

Summary
The Sorcadin, in my eyes, is the archetypal gish. It is also the strongest gish. I don't think I need to explain why.
This build works well at all levels, and should probably only be brought to a high-op table.

Variants
1. You can take Subtle spell instead of Twinned if you like that sort of thing.

EDIT #1 - Change default build to Variant Human since Elven Accuracy doesn't affect STR attacks.

[Klorox]

Introducing, the Holy Avenger.


Technically you get wings at level 20...

This is pretty much your cookie-cutter Sorcadin. I just felt like building this one since no one here has yet, and I wanted to share my take on what would be the most optimal Sorcadin build.
As always, feedback is very much welcome, since the purpose of these builds is to optimize a concept as much as possible.

Race: Half-Elf
Classes: Paladin 6/Sorcerer 14
Stats (Point Buy): 16 STR, 8 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 17 CHA
ASIs: Warcaster, Elven Accuracy (CHA), +2 CHA, Resilient (CON)
Weapon: Longsword & Shield
Fighting Style: Dueling

Level Progression
Contingent on whether you can get your hands on a Strength boosting item, you should progress one of two ways.
Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 14 (if you have one) or Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 8 --> Hexblade 1 --> Sorcerer 13

Metamagic
As any good Sorcerer optimizer knows, our spell selection should be highly affected by our Metamagic choice.
Here, I suggest you take Quicken, which in my eyes is mandatory on a Sorcadin (and is something every gish waters his mouth at), and while the second spot is flexible, I favor Twinned, since this makes you the best buffer in the game, and is a role that only a Sorcerer can excel at. Combined with your great saves and Warcaster, buffing in combat becomes incredibly powerful and reliable.

Spell Selection
(X = pick according to taste)
[ ] = Oath Spells

Cantrips
Level 7 - Booming Blade, Firebolt, Chill Touch, X

Spells
2 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith Protection from Evil and Good, Wrathful Smite, [Bane, Hunter's Mark]
5 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil and Good | Warding Bond, Aid, [Hold Person, Misty Step]
7 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements
8 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements, X
9 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image
10 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, X
11 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball
12 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball, Haste
13 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X
14 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster
15 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster, Holy Weapon

From here on, pick according to preference.

Note:
If the following spells aren't already covered by your party members, you need to take them: Healing Word, Counterspell, Revivify.

Combat Tips
Let's go over Metamagic combos. Since you have a lot of high-level slots with no appropriately leveled spells, that means you have a lot of Sorcery Point fuel.
Quicken is amazing with a lot of spells depending on the situation, but a special mention goes out to Mirror Image which we wouldn't have picked were it not for Quicken making it a highly efficient tanking spell. Hold Person and Hold Monster are also incredibly powerful with Quicken since you can cast them and then immediately smite for insane crits.
Twinned is mainly there for Greater Invisibility. The usual issue with Twinning Greater Invisibility is that you need to be either adjacent to two melee-focused allies or "waste" one of the casts on yourself. Here, casting it on yourself is far from a waste. This is an incredible buff for any melee combatant, but doubly so for tanks and damage dealers. We only use Haste for one level since it's a dangerous prospect on the front-lines, even though you have a great CON save and Warcaster I prefer not to take the risk. Choosing between casting Haste/Greater Invisibility and Spirit Guardians depends on whether you want to use your Sorcery Points on Twinning the buff or not. That said, Twinned also works well with Protection from Good and Evil and Shield of Faith.

Summary
The Sorcadin, in my eyes, is the archetypal gish. It is also the strongest gish. I don't think I need to explain why.
This build works well at all levels, and should probably only be brought to a high-op table.

Variants
1. You could take VHuman instead of Half-Elf and take Resilient (CON) at 1st.
2. You can take Subtle spell instead of Twinned if you like that sort of thing.

I'd hate to see this excellent thread fall into a debate on the best Paladin/Sorcerer builds (or similar). This is a great build though, and I think it's important to note that multiclassing bard works as well, and I'm glad you put that option to throw in a hexblade level, as that helps a lot of people out.

I've seen some people pimp a Pal 2/Hexblade 1/Swords bard 17 idea, and that's a fantastic one as well (9th level spells, two fighting styles, SAD).

I'm not posting that to start a debate, I'm merely illustrating that there are many different ways to detail this very powerful combo.

[Petrocorus]

Stats (Point Buy): 16 STR, 8 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 17 CHA
ASIs: Warcaster, Elven Accuracy (CHA), +2 CHA, Resilient (CON)

Odd ability scores are of the devil.
If you start with 16 Con, you end up with 17 Con after Res (Con). And you have to dump your Wis for it.
Maybe it's better to start with 15 Con and to take Res earlier?

Do you really use Elven Accuracy that much on this build?

[CMCC]

Finally! Thank you - this thread needs to fill out some of those better known MC builds (sorcadin, hexadin, sorlock, fighter/wizard, hex bard etc)

That said, I didn’t see you mention anything about the Paladin subclass (although it’s clear you take vengeance). I think that’s important here - especially for a 6/14 sorcadin split.

Because of that cutoff you almost certainly don’t want to take Conquest. Vengeance seems like the best choice here with its channel divinity and spell options.

[CMCC]

Odd ability scores are of the devil.
If you start with 16 Con, you end up with 17 Con after Res (Con). And you have to dump your Wis for it.
Maybe it's better to start with 15 Con and to take Res earlier?

Do you really use Elven Accuracy that much on this build?

It turns on after level 15, so I’d take it right before that level.

[bendking]

I'd hate to see this excellent thread fall into a debate on the best Paladin/Sorcerer builds (or similar). This is a great build though, and I think it's important to note that multiclassing bard works as well, and I'm glad you put that option to throw in a hexblade level, as that helps a lot of people out.

I've seen some people pimp a Pal 2/Hexblade 1/Swords bard 17 idea, and that's a fantastic one as well (9th level spells, two fighting styles, SAD).

I'm not posting that to start a debate, I'm merely illustrating that there are many different ways to detail this very powerful combo.

That's a great build as well, and one I might write out actually, but it's not really a Sorcadin.

Odd ability scores are of the devil.
If you start with 16 Con, you end up with 17 Con after Res (Con). And you have to dump your Wis for it.
Maybe it's better to start with 15 Con and to take Res earlier?

Do you really use Elven Accuracy that much on this build?

First off, the ability spread I wrote was for Half-Elf, not Variant Human. If you use V.Human you will, of course, put CHA at 16.
Secondly, I forgot to mention we take the Oath of Vengeance, so we get good value out of Elven Accuracy. If you want a different oath, V.Human becomes slightly more appealing.
The V.Human variant of this build is just as viable, just a matter of preference, really. You could choose depending on which levels you play at. If you know you won't be playing long after level 10, you're better off taking the V.Human variant, and if you know it's going to be a late-game focused campaign, you're probably better off with Half-Elf and Elven Accuracy.

Finally! Thank you - this thread needs to fill out some of those better known MC builds (sorcadin, hexadin, sorlock, fighter/wizard, hex bard etc)

That said, I didn’t see you mention anything about the Paladin subclass (although it’s clear you take vengeance). I think that’s important here - especially for a 6/14 sorcadin split.

Because of that cutoff you almost certainly don’t want to take Conquest. Vengeance seems like the best choice here with its channel divinity and spell options.

You're completely correct, I forgot to mention the sublcass and it's definitely important, especially considering I take Elven Accuracy, which I would not have were I to choose a different oath.

[Gignere]

Introducing, the Holy Avenger.


Technically you get wings at level 20...

This is pretty much your cookie-cutter Sorcadin. I just felt like building this one since no one here has yet, and I wanted to share my take on what would be the most optimal Sorcadin build.
As always, feedback is very much welcome, since the purpose of these builds is to optimize a concept as much as possible.

Race: Half-Elf
Classes: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 6/Sorcerer (Divine Soul) 14
Stats (Point Buy): 16 STR, 8 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 17 CHA
ASIs: Warcaster, Elven Accuracy (CHA), +2 CHA, Resilient (CON)
Weapon: Longsword & Shield
Fighting Style: Dueling

Level Progression
Contingent on whether you can get your hands on a Strength boosting item, you should progress one of two ways.
Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 14 (if you have one) or Paladin 6 --> Sorcerer 8 --> Hexblade 1 --> Sorcerer 13

Metamagic
As any good Sorcerer optimizer knows, our spell selection should be highly affected by our Metamagic choice.
Here, I suggest you take Quicken, which in my eyes is mandatory on a Sorcadin (and is something every gish waters his mouth at), and while the second spot is flexible, I favor Twinned, since this makes you the best buffer in the game, and is a role that only a Sorcerer can excel at. Combined with your great saves and Warcaster, buffing in combat becomes incredibly powerful and reliable.

Spell Selection
(X = pick according to taste)
[ ] = Oath Spells

Cantrips
Level 7 - Booming Blade, Firebolt, Chill Touch, X

Spells
2 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith Protection from Evil and Good, Wrathful Smite, [Bane, Hunter's Mark]
5 - PAL: Bless, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil and Good | Warding Bond, Aid, [Hold Person, Misty Step]
7 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements
8 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements, X
9 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image
10 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, X
11 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball
12 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball, Haste
13 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X
14 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster
15 - SOR: Shield, Absorb Elements | Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image | Spirit Guardians, Fireball | Greater Invisibility, X | Hold Monster, Holy Weapon

From here on, pick according to preference.

Note:
If the following spells aren't already covered by your party members, you need to take them: Healing Word, Counterspell, Revivify.

Combat Tips
Let's go over Metamagic combos. Since you have a lot of high-level slots with no appropriately leveled spells, that means you have a lot of Sorcery Point fuel.
Quicken is amazing with a lot of spells depending on the situation, but a special mention goes out to Mirror Image which we wouldn't have picked were it not for Quicken making it a highly efficient tanking spell. Hold Person and Hold Monster are also incredibly powerful with Quicken since you can cast them and then immediately smite for insane crits.
Twinned is mainly there for Greater Invisibility. The usual issue with Twinning Greater Invisibility is that you need to be either adjacent to two melee-focused allies or "waste" one of the casts on yourself. Here, casting it on yourself is far from a waste. This is an incredible buff for any melee combatant, but doubly so for tanks and damage dealers. We only use Haste for one level since it's a dangerous prospect on the front-lines, even though you have a great CON save and Warcaster I prefer not to take the risk. Choosing between casting Haste/Greater Invisibility and Spirit Guardians depends on whether you want to use your Sorcery Points on Twinning the buff or not. That said, Twinned also works well with Protection from Good and Evil and Shield of Faith.

Summary
The Sorcadin, in my eyes, is the archetypal gish. It is also the strongest gish. I don't think I need to explain why.
This build works well at all levels, and should probably only be brought to a high-op table.

Variants
1. You could take VHuman instead of Half-Elf and take Resilient (CON) at 1st.
2. You can take Subtle spell instead of Twinned if you like that sort of thing.

The halfelf build doesn’t work strength doesn’t play well with Elven Accuracy you need to reconsider the character optimizing. You either need to be a dexadin or the hexblade dip is mandatory and comes early.

Unless you are suggesting to attack with -1 with a dagger whenever you have advantage.

[Petrocorus]

First off, the ability spread I wrote was for Half-Elf, not Variant Human. If you use V.Human you will, of course, put CHA at 16.
Secondly, I forgot to mention we take the Oath of Vengeance, so we get good value out of Elven Accuracy. If you want a different oath, V.Human becomes slightly more appealing.
The V.Human variant of this build is just as viable, just a matter of preference, really. You could choose depending on which levels you play at. If you know you won't be playing long after level 10, you're better off taking the V.Human variant, and if you know it's going to be a late-game focused campaign, you're probably better off with Half-Elf and Elven Accuracy.

Not my point.
As and half-elf, you have 4 ASI on you build. The ones you selected gives you +1 Con and +3 Cha. So you have to start with odd numbers in both those abilities, else you're wasting buy points.

Whatever is your race, if you start with an even Con and take Res (Con) you'll end up with an odd Con. That 2 points of point buy that will end up being useless and which could have been put elsewhere.

You're completely correct, I forgot to mention the sublcass and it's definitely important, especially considering I take Elven Accuracy, which I would not have were I to choose a different oath.

And i still don't see what Elven Accuracy is going to do on a Strength build.
Unless you take Hexblade 1, Elven Accuracy is only going to be useful on your attack spells, that means your cantrips (but not BB) + Spiritual Weapon.

[CMCC]

I'd hate to see this excellent thread fall into a debate on the best Paladin/Sorcerer builds (or similar). This is a great build though, and I think it's important to note that multiclassing bard works as well, and I'm glad you put that option to throw in a hexblade level, as that helps a lot of people out.

I've seen some people pimp a Pal 2/Hexblade 1/Swords bard 17 idea, and that's a fantastic one as well (9th level spells, two fighting styles, SAD).

I'm not posting that to start a debate, I'm merely illustrating that there are many different ways to detail this very powerful combo.

What does swords bard have over divine soul here?

Magical secrets, maneuvers, extra attack. But give up metamagic, the cleric spell list, some real solid sorcerer spells.

Which is better?

[CMCC]

Not my point.
As and half-elf, you have 4 ASI on you build. The ones you selected gives you +1 Con and +3 Cha. So you have to start with odd numbers in both those abilities, else you're wasting buy points.

Whatever is your race, if you start with an even Con and take Res (Con) you'll end up with an odd Con. That 2 points of point buy that will end up being useless and which could have been put elsewhere.


And i still don't see what Elven Accuracy is going to do on a Strength build.
Unless you take Hexblade 1, Elven Accuracy is only going to be useful on your attack spells, that means your cantrips (but not BB) + Spiritual Weapon.

To be fair, he does take hex 1 in the build (assuming no strength magic items). But yeah, it’s a wasted pick on the non-hex build.

[Hairfish]

Finally! Thank you - this thread needs to fill out some of those better known MC builds (sorcadin, hexadin, sorlock, fighter/wizard, hex bard etc)

Ugh, no. You can throw a brick and hit half a dozen threads about sorc/hexadin builds. Unless they add something that actually makes them interesting, why bother?

[bendking]

The halfelf build doesn’t work strength doesn’t play well with Elven Accuracy you need to reconsider the character optimizing. You either need to be a dexadin or the hexblade dip is mandatory and comes early.

Unless you are suggesting to attack with -1 with a dagger whenever you have advantage.

Not my point.
As and half-elf, you have 4 ASI on you build. The ones you selected gives you +1 Con and +3 Cha. So you have to start with odd numbers in both those abilities, else you're wasting buy points.

Whatever is your race, if you start with an even Con and take Res (Con) you'll end up with an odd Con. That 2 points of point buy that will end up being useless and which could have been put elsewhere.


And i still don't see what Elven Accuracy is going to do on a Strength build.
Unless you take Hexblade 1, Elven Accuracy is only going to be useful on your attack spells, that means your cantrips (but not BB) + Spiritual Weapon.

I totally forgot about that little quirk of Elven Accuracy. That does make the Variant Human build more appealing unless going for a DEX build.
The CON being odd at level 18 is kind of a waste, but not that big of a waste since you still would have enjoyed that additional CON for a huge part of your career. I mean, how many people actually get to level 18?
Anyway, I'll change the build to Variant Human. Thanks, guys.

[CMCC]

Ugh, no. You can throw a brick and hit half a dozen threads about sorc/hexadin builds. Unless they add something that actually makes them interesting, why bother?

You nailed the problem in your post.

This allows for a single thread of fun/effective builds. The best ones float to the top.

In case the problem is not clear: some people may not want to search through 10-20 threads with 40 different build variations. Having a really solid one featured is something I (and perhaps others) would appreciate.

[Skylivedk]

You nailed the problem in your post.

This allows for a single thread of fun/effective builds. The best ones float to the top.

In case the problem is not clear: some people may not want to search through 10-20 threads with 40 different build variations. Having a really solid one featured is something I (and perhaps others) would appreciate.

There's a separate thread just for the Paladorc. It's called bladeworks unlimited IIRC. I do believe no variation has been posted here since people don't find that combo fun and/or eclectic.

[Quietus]

I agree that the commonly known builds, while appreciated, do not have a place in this thread. This thread is for eclectic and novel builds. Not ones that have at least one thread dedicated to them on the front page at all times.

[CMCC]

There's a separate thread just for the Paladorc. It's called bladeworks unlimited IIRC. I do believe no variation has been posted here since people don't find that combo fun and/or eclectic.

That’s a guide not a specific build. But fair enough

No sorcadin, folks.