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  1. - Top - End - #871
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    Lavaeolus's Avatar

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol0botmate View Post
    You do play semantics. Attack rolls do rely on sight. That is why when you are in Darkness you have disadvantage, when someone is invisible you have disadvantage, when you fight smeone who is heavy obscured- you have disadvantage. Or when you attack someone in the dark outside of your Darkvision range - you have disadvantage.

    And that is why you do not have disadvantage if you have: Tremoresense that relies on ground vibration or Blindsight which uses other senses than sight (smell, echolocation, hearing etc.).
    You're missing my point. Yes, sight can come into play into an attack roll: but the system never describes it in terms of "relies on sight". "Wisdom (Perception) check that relies on X" is, however, a common wording. For example, found on maistiff, werewolf and various other creatures:
    Keen Hearing and Smell. The [whatever] has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
    Or the hawk:
    Keen Sight. The hawk has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
    To round off the senses, Keen Hearing and Keen Smell (on tigers at least) can be not grouped together:
    Keen Hearing. The bat has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing.
    Or as mentioned, the blinded condition:
    A blinded creature canít see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
    I am saying "Y ability check that relies on X" is a common wording structure, but if this is to be read as "attack rolls that rely on sight", it's the only such instance in any D&D book -- lending credence to the idea that the second reading might be RAI.
    Last edited by Lavaeolus; 2021-01-21 at 03:51 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #872
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    What should be understood is that problems with Darkness (and obscurement in general) are avoidable. It's kind of in the same category as shoving: shoving people prone can interfere with certain characters, like some archers or eldritch blasters. On the other hand, it can be amazing for melee allies, or non-attack-based kiters. That doesn't mean that shoving prone is bad, it just means it's not for absolutely every party. And it doesn't need to be.

    I'm in multiple games right now with Darkness users, including one with a Hexblade that we've been playing from level 3-19 (so far). In that game, the Hexblade makes regular use of Devil's Sight, and the tiefling Wizard regularly uses Darkness and Sculpted Maddening Darkness (as well as other kinds of obscurement, like Sleet Storm and Pyrotechnics. The party Bard does too). Not once in that entire long-term, combat-heavy campaign has this ever imposed a problem for the rest of the squad. I have a similar experience in numerous other games.

    With the right party composition and tactics, obscurement not only shouldn't be intefering with your team, but can be a substantial asset for them.
    how exactly are you using darkness? I've been meaning to do an obscurement build for a while now but I can't actually find much on tactics besides using it as a distraction or cutting off the line of sight of ranged attackers. Do most obscurement builds just amount to standing at the edge and intercepting enemies who come through?

  3. - Top - End - #873
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by ftafp View Post
    how exactly are you using darkness? I've been meaning to do an obscurement build for a while now but I can't actually find much on tactics besides using it as a distraction or cutting off the line of sight of ranged attackers. Do most obscurement builds just amount to standing at the edge and intercepting enemies who come through?
    Did you check out the "know your spells" section of the Way of the Demonweb Spider build? I had some examples in there, though I can give more if folks want me to.

    Edit
    Note that in many cases 'block off line of sight for ranged attackers' doesn't really work because it just makes Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out. Exception is if they are out of range to hear you (can't find your square), or it is helping people Hide, or if they have something that makes it not cancel out (like Alert, Wildhunt Shifter, True Seeing, Devil's Sight, Wildshaping into a spider, etc etc). It also does totally screw over enemies like Beholders who depend heavily on "an enemy you can see" abilities. It also gives your party a way to "avert their gaze" without anyone getting Disadvantage for doing so (because of the "cancel out" effect). Oh, and that cancel out effect can even do things like help a Ranged Attack ally shoot a foe from longer range (e.g. where they would normally have Disadvantage) without hindrance.

    Speaking of "out of range to hear you," while there are no rules for audible range in any of the books (AFAIK), there actually is a chart of 'guidelines' for it on the official DM Screen. But not in the DMG. For some reason.

    An important note is that you don't just cast Darkness on someone, you cast it on an object that you can then move around and cover/uncover with object interactions. It (usually) shouldn't just be placed on a point like Fog Cloud.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2021-01-22 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Added link. Expanded answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderous Mojo View Post
    👍👍LudicSavant!!!!
    That is an excellent post. I don't typically read "build threads", but I'm going have to check yours out, because your post is a great example of creative and informed play. As a DM, I love it when players "bring it", like this!
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  4. - Top - End - #874
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Did you check out the "know your spells" section of the Way of the Demonweb Spider build? I had some examples in there, though I can give more.
    I did look through it. You have a lot of really good examples of ways to use it to negate enemy advantages, but I'm curious about ways to avoid also negating the advantages of your allies. I might be having a bit of a brain fart but I assume if you're doing an obscurement build you're going to assume that most battles are going to involve obscurement even if your enemies don't have the upper hand

  5. - Top - End - #875
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by ftafp View Post
    I did look through it. You have a lot of really good examples of ways to use it to negate enemy advantages, but I'm curious about ways to avoid also negating the advantages of your allies. I might be having a bit of a brain fart but I assume if you're doing an obscurement build you're going to assume that most battles are going to involve obscurement even if your enemies don't have the upper hand
    Well, it depends on what kind of allies you have. Got an example situation you're curious about?

    If allies are making normal attacks, they're already unaffected. And a lot of builds are just positively affected (or have access to tools or tactics that make them positively affected). This is true more often than ever before since Tasha's was released.

    Specific things are negatively affected, and often these can be played around in ways that make them positively affected. For example, if an allied Barbarian decides to Reckless Attack, you can follow that up by switching on or moving your Darkness over them negate the enemy's Advantage. And if they want to get Reckless Advantage again when their turn comes up? They can use a free object interaction to switch Darkness off temporarily.

    That said, often isn't always, and close-ish range Darkness isn't the kind of thing I'd just toss into absolutely any party, same as something like a shover. You should look at what your teammates want to play and decide how much it helps them or not (as when choosing your role in any party). That shouldn't be an issue unless, say, you're playing in a game with a rotating cast, like West Marches style.

    As a side thought, I don't think I've seen people complain about 'hurting their own team' with effects that knock prone, even though it has an obvious potential for doing so. Or a lot of other features that have anti-synergies, for that matter. Which leads me to wonder whether the psychological issue isn't so much that some anti-synergistic party compositions exist, but that they are sometimes surprised by what those anti-synergies are. Nobody is ever surprised that prone gives Disadvantage to ranged characters. But obscurement seems to be more unintuitive for some.

    Edit: By the way, if you're switching Darkness off/on with object interactions, it can occasionally weaken your personal defense a bit, but that's okay -- Darkness would be slot-efficient if all it did was give you triple advantage for 10 minutes. And of course it does more than just that when used optimally.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2021-01-22 at 03:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderous Mojo View Post
    👍👍LudicSavant!!!!
    That is an excellent post. I don't typically read "build threads", but I'm going have to check yours out, because your post is a great example of creative and informed play. As a DM, I love it when players "bring it", like this!
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  6. - Top - End - #876
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Well, it depends on what kind of allies you have. Got an example situation you're curious about?

    If allies are making normal attacks, they're already unaffected. And a lot of builds are just positively affected (or have access to tools or tactics that make them positively affected). This is true more often than ever before since Tasha's was released.

    Specific things are negatively affected, and often these can be played around in ways that make them positively affected. For example, if an allied Barbarian decides to Reckless Attack, you can follow that up by switching on or moving your Darkness over them negate the enemy's Advantage. And if they want to get Reckless Advantage again when their turn comes up? They can use a free object interaction to switch Darkness off temporarily.

    That said, often isn't always, and a melee Darkness build isn't the kind of thing I'd just toss into absolutely any party, same as something like a shover. You should look at what your teammates want to play and decide how much it helps them or not (as when choosing your role in any party). That shouldn't be an issue unless, say, you're playing in a game with a rotating cast, like West Marches style.

    As a side thought, I don't think I've seen people complain about 'hurting their own team' with effects that knock prone, even though it has an obvious potential for doing so. Or a lot of other features that have anti-synergies, for that matter. Which leads me to wonder whether the psychological issue isn't so much that some anti-synergistic party compositions exist, but that they are sometimes surprised by what those anti-synergies are. Nobody is ever surprised that prone gives Disadvantage to ranged characters. But obscurement seems to be more unintuitive for some.
    I was referring more to allied casters, who struggle target either enemies or allies in the darkness.

  7. - Top - End - #877
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    smile Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by ftafp View Post
    I was referring more to allied casters, who struggle target either enemies or allies in the darkness.
    A lot of casters should already have plans for playing around obscurement so that they can take advantage of stuff like fog cloud, sleet storm, or even casting darkness themselves. Not to mention being prepared to deal with enemies who use their own abilities that deny vision.

    For things that do depend on seeing the target, you can still
    - Switch off the darkness with an object interaction.
    - Move into the area of darkness with an upcast Continual Flame (3rd level or higher Continual Flame items suppress Darkness), then move out again (or cover it).
    - Cast it on targets when they aren't in the darkness. It's not like they'll always be there, especially with a Monk jumping all over the place.
    - Various specific abilities are relevant. For example, Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard all have True Seeing (non-Concentration, lasts an hour, good spell in general, but takes a 6th level slot). Moon Druids like to turn into blindsight forms. Warlocks are just gonna be taking Devil's Sight the instant they hear anyone in their party uses Darkness. Etc.
    - absolute worst case scenario, you can immediately drop Concentration on Darkness off-turn to provide an opening.

    In addition to the ever-present 'use a different spell' option. You don't need to see to cast Sickening Radiance, Fireball, Wall of Force, Dragon's Breath, Web, tons of things.

    Hope that helps!

    Edit with more examples!
    Funnily enough, checking on the Wizard I'm currently playing in our Saturday game (who's now level 19, in a campaign that started way back at level 3), she only has 3 spells prepared right now that depend on seeing a target creature: Magic Missile, Disintegrate, and Counterspell. And I don't use Disintegrate on creatures, I only prepare it in case of pesky force walls. And if I ever really wanted to HCEE Magic Missile someone in the dark, I'd just whip out the upcast Continual Flame item I made the instant I hit level 5. Though in most cases I would just use any of some 20 different spells.

    I also had 3 obscurement spells of my own prepped; Pyrotechnics, Maddening Darkness (great with Sculpt Spell and Mind Blank), and (1/day from Tiefling racial) Darkness.

    My level 8 Sorcerer (from a currently-ongoing campaign that started at level 1) seems to be in similarly good shape; he only has 2 spells that care about seeing a target creature (Phantasmal Force and Polymorph). And I'm usually casting Polymorph on allies anywho. And the party Cleric has Alert, so just loves being obscured.

    Before that I was playing a Moon Druid, and she just liked to turn into creatures with Blindsight.

    So... yeah, I guess as a caster I tend to see obscurement as a useful tool, not my enemy. So I guess it really depends on what kind of caster we're talking about, here.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2021-01-22 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Added 3 more examples!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderous Mojo View Post
    👍👍LudicSavant!!!!
    That is an excellent post. I don't typically read "build threads", but I'm going have to check yours out, because your post is a great example of creative and informed play. As a DM, I love it when players "bring it", like this!
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  8. - Top - End - #878

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    A lot of casters should already have plans for playing around obscurement so that they can take advantage of stuff like fog cloud, sleet storm, or even casting darkness themselves. Not to mention being prepared to deal with enemies who use their own abilities that deny vision.

    For things that do depend on seeing the target, you can still
    - Switch off the darkness with an object interaction.
    - Move into the area of darkness with an upcast Continual Flame (3rd level or higher Continual Flame items suppress Darkness), then move out again (or cover it).
    - Cast it on targets when they aren't in the darkness. It's not like they'll always be there, especially with a Monk jumping all over the place.
    - Various specific abilities are relevant. For example, Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard all have True Seeing (non-Concentration, lasts an hour, good spell in general, but takes a 6th level slot). Moon Druids like to turn into blindsight forms. Warlocks are just gonna be taking Devil's Sight the instant they hear anyone in their party uses Darkness. Etc.
    - absolute worst case scenario, you can immediately drop Concentration on Darkness off-turn to provide an opening.

    In addition to the ever-present 'use a different spell' option. You don't need to see to cast Sickening Radiance, Fireball, Wall of Force, Dragon's Breath, Web, tons of things.

    Hope that helps!

    Edit with more examples!
    Funnily enough, checking on the Wizard I'm currently playing in our Saturday game (who's now level 19, in a campaign that started way back at level 3), she only has 3 spells prepared right now that depend on seeing a target creature: Magic Missile, Disintegrate, and Counterspell. And I don't use Disintegrate on creatures, I only prepare it in case of pesky force walls. And if I ever really wanted to HCEE Magic Missile someone in the dark, I'd just whip out the upcast Continual Flame item I made the instant I hit level 5. Though in most cases I would just use any of some 20 different spells.

    I also had 3 obscurement spells of my own prepped; Pyrotechnics, Maddening Darkness (great with Sculpt Spell and Mind Blank), and (1/day from Tiefling racial) Darkness.

    My level 8 Sorcerer (from a currently-ongoing campaign that started at level 1) seems to be in similarly good shape; he only has 2 spells that care about seeing a target creature (Phantasmal Force and Polymorph). And I'm usually casting Polymorph on allies anywho. And the party Cleric has Alert, so just loves being obscured.

    Before that I was playing a Moon Druid, and she just liked to turn into creatures with Blindsight.

    So... yeah, I guess as a caster I tend to see obscurement as a useful tool, not my enemy. So I guess it really depends on what kind of caster we're talking about, here.
    Sorry for cutting in discussion but a lot of very helpful tricks I didn't think of. I will reevaluate my opinion about Darkness trying to use some of tips you gave here. Thanks for sharing!

  9. - Top - End - #879
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by bendking View Post
    Sunlight Sensitivity is a big deal for Kobolds. Unless you're constantly fighting in dim-light/darkness (which you most certainly can't ensure), I suggest you take Blind Fighting instead of Dueling to counter-act that weakness. Also, Dueling doesn't work with Hand Crossbow so I'm not sure what that achieves you anyway.
    Another issue is that besides Sentinel, I don't see what makes you a good target for the enemies on the melee version, which is a crucial trait of a tank. If I were on Team Monster I would almost certainly ignore your presence on the battlefield, because your AC is ridiculously high and your DPR / battlefield control is middling. I think the range version should be the default version of the build, since CBE + SS + Pack Tactics + Blind Fighting makes your 'melee' DPR pretty brutal.
    Setting aside everything but the battlesmith with sentinel portion, the battlesmith is one of the best users of the feat because they are so hearty. Sentinel isn't a good feat for tanking in the grand scheme because it procs after the fact so it doesn't help to mitigate or control where the attacks are targeted. Where a BS swinging a great sword next to their SD and say the reckless barbarian holding the radiant infusion is leaving the opposition in a poor spot. Move away and take 2-3 AOO, dodge and move and hope to get lucky but losing an action, attack the barbarian at disadvantage and get attacked back and maybe be blinded, attack the SD and eat an attack and basically toss the attack away on a renewable hp pool, or attack the BS and fight a high AC and risk getting disadvantage from the SD.

    As far as control goes the BS is setting fairly well. They have grapple shove on a bonus action now and enough spell slots for web and such to lock down the hordes when they show up.
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  10. - Top - End - #880
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    A Peaceful Summoner

    So I wrote about this build in another thread, but I thought i'd optimize it and explain why I think it's so crazy. I'm sort of envisioning this character as a member of the Harpers who is rather ornery and disagreeable, but is frequently tasked with investigating high crimes and mysteries. Basically an old goblin detective who no one see's coming.
    Note that this is a very broken build. You're taking two broken subclasses: The Shepherd druid and the Peace domain cleric, and merging them in a way that synergizes without really losing that much (eg high lvl spells are mostly lost for summoners). If you really want to make this build even crazier, you should take the Mark of Sentinel human. But I like the rp and flavor so here goes, feedback is appreciated.

    Race: Goblin (TCOE: WIS +2, CON +1)
    Classes: Shepherd Druid 6/Peace Domain Cleric 6/Sheperd Druid 14
    Stats (point buy): 8 STR / 14 DEX / 14 CON / 12 INT / 15 WIS / 8 CHA (honestly stats dont matter much here, if you want to powergame dump int and get more con)
    ASIs: Res:CON, Telekinetic (WIS), X , X, X (your choice, feats and asis dont really matter here. Good options include Warcaster for better CON saves, Alert, Feytouched for Gift of Alacrity, Ritual Caster, WIS or CON asis)
    Progression: Druid 6 -- > Cleric 6 -->Druid X.
    Notes on Progression: There is a choice thats probably campaign specific. The 6th lvl feature of Shepherd druids really empowers your summons and prevents them from falling off in late tier2-early tier3, however going Cleric at lvl 6 makes sense, and then you can note if your DM starts throwing nonmagic weapon resistant beasts at you and then take the 6th lvl druid level to stay online until you finish off the Cleric dip. The longer you can hold off the better.

    Background: Faction Agent
    Kits: Herbalism
    Languages: Common, Druidic, Sylvan, Elvish, Halfling, Primordial
    Skills: Stealth, Insight, Perception, Investigation, Animal Handling

    Cantrips: Guidance, Mage Hand (Telekinetic), Mold Earth, Thaumaturgy, Thorn Whip, Toll the Dead, X, X, X. (your choice, good choices could be shape Water, Mending, Create Bonfire, etc)

    Druid Progression till lvl 6:
    Spells: Absorb Elements, Goodberry, Healing word, Pass without Trace, Erupting Earth and of course Conjure Animals as well as the early lvl stuff like (Ice Knife, Entangle, Summon Beast, Faerie Fire)

    Cleric Progression:
    Spells: Bless, Command, Detect Magic, Healing Word, Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Aura of Vitality, Animate Dead, Revivify, Dispel Magic, Glyph of Warding

    Final Druid Progression:
    Spells: Polymorph, Conjure Woodland Beings, Transmute Rock, Scrying, Greater Restoration, Cone of Cold, Mass Cure Wounds, Wind Walk, Bones of the Earth, Conjure Fey, Heal, Heroes Feast, Wind Walk, Regeneration, Plane Shift

    Notes on interesting spell interactions: There are a few things that are amazing. Bless/Guidance + Emboldening Bond gives 2d4 to all ability checks. Your skill check monkey will love you forever. Command is also very strong, as it allows you give reaction attacks to your 8+ furry minions when you tell a creature to flee from you (thus indirectly putting them into their path). Warding Bond is also a very strong ability for this class. It allows you to use your wildshape as a hp sponge, so for instance if you turn into a spider and crawl up a wall, you can still contribute your hp pool that is being buffed with temp hp and healed by your totems.

    Comments: Where to begin. The first thing to note is that you can take a BA to hide with your goblin feature and high stealth, and watch your hordes solo encounters all of which is standard Shepherd druid fare. But that's boring. So since you are a small creature, you can hop on one of your summons, and use them like a mount and hop around the battlefield using thorn whip to reposition enemies into your summons, and then using telekinetic to reposition them or your allies further. More relevant to this particular build is what the Peace cleric brings to the table. So first of all, if you are by yourself, using your bond on your minions is a pretty big deal for their survivability, saves, skill checks and attack rolls.

    Getting access to spiritual weapon is also really nice, b/c you don't have to send your summons through a gauntlet if someone is hiding behind a wall of traps. However where things start getting really OP, is what your channel divinity can do. On your turn on your mount, you can move around the battlefield without provoking OAs and heal 2d6 + WIS to all of your summons and party members that you cross paths with. Given that many are already being healed or granted temp hp by your totems and Shepherd druid features, this can amount to an enormous wall of total health healed and can be essentially full heals for many of the low CR summons.

    Which leads to the cherry on top at lvl 11-12. Protective bond. This crazy ability synergizes with summons and your wildshape to a ridiculous degree. B/c your summons might have a large array of resistances and immunities, with a little forethought you can use them to tank a lot of the big hits from tier 3-4 monsters thus yielding an enormous amount of effective damage mitigation (this is like getting the lvl 17 peace domain feature for free). Are you fighting in a poison swamp? Bring a zombie minion and bond it to outright resist all poison for the tank. Fighting in a fire world? Bring smoke Mephit summons. The ability to constantly reposition yourself and your team (breaking grapples and restrained conditions), as well as the effective damage mitigation and the ability to smooth out the burst will probably be a bit too much for most tables, but it will be really fun while it lasts (before the DM drops you off a cliff) Btw, as of Tashas, druids now get familiars (which of course will be buffed with your shepherd druid abilities), so feel free to use it to provide advantage, to drop goodberries, to communicate with your party/summons while you are wildshaped, and to be used with the bond to provide reaction teleports for party members that are in danger.

    End of the day, you have a party member who is an adequate primary healer, an ok buffer, with good out of combat utility and high passive perception and insight. A member who is one of the strongest overall summoning builds in the game (rivaling conjurer 14/druid 6 or necromancer builds) and definitely the best at will party repositioner in the entire game with thorn whip + telekinesis + the 'misty step' like reactions for up to proficiency number of members of your party. And on top of that, you have excellent battlefield control with a lot of non-concentration CC (like plant growth, mold earth, bones of the earth and erupting earth) as well as your summons potential CC and grapples and of course bonkers net damage potential. I could get into a lot more crazy combos with specific summons, but I'll leave them to the reader to discover.

  11. - Top - End - #881

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Sneaky, sneaky.

    Two simple builds that take advantage of new Blind Fighting style + Hidding mechanic to always stay hidden during combat while dealing high burst damage. What's better than giving enemies disadvantage to attacks? Not being able to attack you at all because you are hidden.

    Build 1:

    "Cloud Kill"




    Race
    : Mark of Shadow Elf. Also good choices: Half-Elf Drow or Drow.
    Class: 1 Fighter/X Rogue: Arcane Trickster
    Fighting Style: Blind Fighting
    Attributes: DEX 17, CON 14, INT 16
    ASI: Elven Accuracy +1 DEX, +2 DEX, +2 INT, +2 INT

    Leveling:
    Start as Fighter for CON proficicency, fighting style and shield + martial + armor proficiencies.

    Race Choice: although for basic mechanic of this build any "elf" race would work- Shadow Mark gives free +d4 to every Stealth roll, free Invisibility/long rest and Pass Without Trace spell. If you prefer other elf/half-elf races traits like free Darkness/day instead of "drow" races - go ahead and take it.

    The Combo:

    It's very easy and staright foward:

    1. Prepare Fog Cloud spell, which covers a big area (bigger if you upcast it) in thick fog, making everything heavy obscured. You can take Fog Cloud as early as level 3 of AT because only two of three you learn must be from enchantment and illusion. 3rd one is free pick. Take Fog Cloud.
    2. Take Booming Blade as your cantrip.
    3. Safe your Cunning Action for Bonus Action Hide
    4. Obviously take Expertise in Stealth
    5. Use Rapier + Booming Blade
    6. Have Darkness prepared just in case once you reach level where you can pick it. Generally Fog Clous is better because True sight and Devil's Sight do not work on it, but Darkness can be casted on object or yourself so it can move with you.

    So you cast Cloud Fog on battlefield. On level 5 you can do it 3/long rest. On level 8 - 6/long rest.

    What you do is use your Blind Fighting style to attack enemy inside Fog Cloud with Elven Accuray Triple advantage, using sneak attack + booming blade to stack as much damage as possible. Becasue you are heavy obscured, you can walk to target, hit it and walk back without provoking opportunity attacks.

    But even though you are heavy obscured - you can still be attacked with disadvantage in melee (in 10 feet range) and attacked normally with range attacks.

    However here comes Bonus Action: Hide. Hidding have specific mechanics which state that enemy needs to not be able to see you (you need to be Heavy Obscured) if you want to try to hide during combat. Fog Cloud does it for you. Now you can go in attack with EA+ SA + BB and immidietly vanish via bonus action: hide inside your fog cloud. Enemies can't attack you unless they will pass perception check that is higher than your stealth check or if you will reveal your position by doing something (simple don't do anything). Spotting you is not easy as with Expertise and High Dex + Mark of Shadow you will have passive bonus of +13.5 on level 5 to your stealth roll. Meaning on average you will roll 24 on stealth roll on level 5. Which of course will only go higher. Get yourself also Boots of Elvenkind for advantage on that roll.

    You bascically create that "Cloudkill" battlefield where enemies are being suddenly hit from within the fog but when they try to react and defend themselfs.... there is nothing there. If they stay in one place - they will be attacked again. If you move - Booming Blade will explode for more damage.

    Be aware of enemy Ready Actions but you can easy spot it if enemy didn't do anything at all.

    That's it. It's nothing spectacular but being able to attack enemies in combat and then vanishing from their perception is really really nice and give you more room to work in.

    Example damage: at level 6 using Booming Blade + Sneak attack you can deal 2d8 + 3d6 + 4 dmg. Average 23,5 dmg. If target moves after being stabbed, he will take additional 2d8 dmg for toal of possible 32,5 dmg.

    You are still Rogue Arcane Trickster

    Remember that this is just one of the things you can do. You still have access to Pass Without Trace for awesome +10 to stealth for 1 hour. You still have your Mage Hand utility, all the good Rogue stuff like Evansion etc. and Magical Ambush.
    '
    You have Solid AC 19 with Studded Leather + shield

    As for more Multiclassing options... well, you want that sneak attack badly. You could in theory go more levels of a Fighter to get second attack, maybe 5 level Eldricht Knigth to not totally lose all spell progress or Champion to boost that crit chance with 19-20 rolls

    Build 2:

    "Misty Holystabber"


    Can Goblins be Paladins? Sure. They may want to fight for what's right and good, protect others or seek holy vengeance. But who said Goblin will not fight dirty? ;)



    Race: Goblin
    Class: 1 Sorcerer/12 Paladin of Vengeance/Ancients
    Attributes: STR 13, DEX 17, CON 14, CHA 14
    Fighting Style: Blind Fighting
    ASI: Skill Expert (Stealth) +1 DEX, DEX +2, CHA +2, CHA +2

    What we want is to abuse Goblin Racial Ability called "Nimble Escape", which allows us to take Disengage and Hidden action as our Bonus Action. We also have "Fury of the Small" so once/short rest we can add bonus damage equal to our character level when we damage a creature.

    Sorcerer 1 allows us to pick.... Fog Cloud (You know where I am going with it, no?) + CON proficency for keeping concentration (if you get Fireballed inside your Fog Cloud). But you can also start as Paladin for WIS/CHA. In most cases you can't be target by majority of "save or suck" spells due to heavy obscured.

    The Combo:

    1. Cast Fog Cloud
    2. Attack 2x with IDS + Smite + Fury of the small if we really dislike someone.
    3. You attack with advantage due to Blind Fighting style. Use rapier
    4. You don't provoke OA from creature you attack inside Fog Cloude because everything is heavy obscured.
    5. You use Bonus Action: Hide to vanish from enemy sight till next turn where you will attack again. You are heavy obscured so you should have no problem with it.
    6. You have Expertise in Stealth + high Dexterity.

    In case where you fight boss with blind sight - simply use Vow of Enmity from Vengeance Paladin to have advantage on all attacks on him + use Bonus Action: Disengage to keep your hit-n-run tactic going. We wear Studded Leather + shield here

    That's it. Please remember that you are not tanky Paladin here. Your Aura will have small bonus for most of your career and you have only 14 CON. It's dirty Paladin fighting here. He backstabs from mist/fog with holy radiant power. All enemies see is flash of radiant power when they get hit by smite. But when they try to turn around and see who injured them...

    There is nobody there.... only a thick mist....


    Multiclassing:


    I think best would be 1 Sorc/12 Paladin as base. Having access to Improve Divine Smite + Immunity to fear will work nice. For rest levels you can finish as Sorcerer for more spells lots for Smites + more spells in general or some nice Sorc features, so final build could look like 1 Sorc/12 Paladin/7 Sorc.

    That's it. A dirty little green Paladin stabber :)


    Caution: Downside of both builds is that if you have party that heavy rely on getting easy advantage (Barbarian, Samurai Fighter or Hexblade) or cast a lot of single target spells (instead of happy Fireball Evoker): then remembe that Fog Cloud will counter all of that. Still it can be fun in right party :).
    Last edited by Sol0botmate; 2021-01-24 at 09:46 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #882
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    I would be curious to see your take on a Genie Warlock.
    Order of the Stick Avatar done by the talented Kymme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!
    I was eating THOSE BEANS!!

  13. - Top - End - #883
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    smile Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2021-01-23 at 11:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderous Mojo View Post
    👍👍LudicSavant!!!!
    That is an excellent post. I don't typically read "build threads", but I'm going have to check yours out, because your post is a great example of creative and informed play. As a DM, I love it when players "bring it", like this!
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  14. - Top - End - #884
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol0botmate View Post
    Sneaky, sneaky.

    Two simple builds that take advantage of new Blind Fighting style + Hidding mechanic to always stay hidden during combat while dealing high burst damage. What's better than giving enemies disadvantage to attacks? Not being able to attack you at all because you are hidden.

    Build 1:

    "Cloud Kill"




    Race
    : Mark of Shadow Elf. Also good choices: Half-Elf Drow or Drow.
    Class: 1 Fighter/X Rogue: Arcane Trickster
    Fighting Style: Blind Fighting
    Attributes: DEX 17, CON 14, INT 16
    ASI: Elven Accuracy +1 DEX, +2 DEX, +2 INT, +2 INT

    Leveling:
    Start as Fighter for CON proficicency, fighting style and shield + martial + armor proficiencies.

    Race Choice: although for basic mechanic of this build any "elf" race would work- Shadow Mark gives free +d4 to every Stealth roll, free Invisibility/long rest and Pass Without Trace spell. If you prefer other elf/half-elf races traits like free Darkness/day instead of "drow" races - go ahead and take it.

    The Combo:

    It's very easy and staright foward:

    1. Prepare Fog Cloud spell, which covers a big area (bigger if you upcast it) in thick fog, making everything heavy obscured. You can take Fog Cloud as early as level 3 of AT because only two of three you learn must be from enchantment and illusion. 3rd one is free pick. Take Fog Cloud.
    2. Take Booming Blade as your cantrip.
    3. Safe your Cunning Action for Bonus Action Hide
    4. Obviously take Expertise in Stealth
    5. Use Rapier + Booming Blade
    6. Have Darkness prepared just in case once you reach level where you can pick it. Generally Fog Clous is better because True sight and Devil's Sight do not work on it, but Darkness can be casted on object or yourself so it can move with you.

    So you cast Cloud Fog on battlefield. On level 5 you can do it 3/long rest. On level 8 - 6/long rest.

    What you do is use your Blind Fighting style to attack enemy inside Fog Cloud with Elven Accuray Triple advantage, using sneak attack + booming blade to stack as much damage as possible. Becasue you are heavy obscured, you can walk to target, hit it and walk back without provoking opportunity attacks.

    But even though you are heavy obscured - you can still be attacked with disadvantage in melee (in 10 feet range) and attacked normally with range attacks.

    However here comes Bonus Action: Hide. Hidding have specific mechanics which state that enemy needs to not be able to see you (you need to be Heavy Obscured) if you want to try to hide during combat. Fog Cloud does it for you. Now you can go in attack with EA+ SA + BB and immidietly vanish via bonus action: hide inside your fog cloud. Enemies can't attack you unless they will pass perception check that is higher than your stealth check or if you will reveal your position by doing something (simple don't do anything). Spotting you is not easy as with Expertise and High Dex + Mark of Shadow you will have passive bonus of +13.5 on level 5 to your stealth roll. Meaning on average you will roll 24 on stealth roll on level 5. Which of course will only go higher. Get yourself also Boots of Elvenkind for advantage on that roll.

    You bascically create that "Cloudkill" battlefield where enemies are being suddenly hit from within the fog but when they try to react and defend themselfs.... there is nothing there. If they stay in one place - they will be attacked again. If you move - Booming Blade will explode for more damage.

    Be aware of enemy Ready Actions but you can easy spot it if enemy didn't do anything at all.

    That's it. It's nothing spectacular but being able to attack enemies in combat and then vanishing from their perception is really really nice and give you more room to work in.

    Example damage: at level 6 using Booming Blade + Sneak attack you can deal 2d8 + 3d6 + 4 dmg. Average 23,5 dmg. If target moves after being stabbed, he will take additional 2d8 dmg for toal of possible 32,5 dmg.

    You are still Rogue Arcane Trickster

    Remember that this is just one of the things you can do. You still have access to Pass Without Trace for awesome +10 to stealth for 1 hour. You still have your Mage Hand utility, all the good Rogue stuff like Evansion etc. and Magical Ambush.
    '
    You have Solid AC 19 with Studded Leather + shield

    As for more Multiclassing options... well, you want that sneak attack badly. You could in theory go more levels of a Fighter to get second attack, maybe 5 level Eldricht Knigth to not totally lose all spell progress or Champion to boost that crit chance with 19-20 rolls

    Build 2:

    "Misty Holystabber"


    Can Goblins be Paladins? Sure. They may want to fight for what's right and good, protect others or seek holy vengeance. But who said Goblin will not fight dirty? ;)



    Race: Goblin
    Class: 1 Sorcerer/12 Paladin of Vengeance/Ancients
    Attributes: STR 13, DEX 17, CON 14, CHA 14
    Fighting Style: Blind Fighting
    ASI: Skill Expert (Stealth) +1 DEX, DEX +2, CHA +2, CHA +2

    What we want is to abuse Goblin Racial Ability called "Nimble Escape", which allows us to take Disengage and Hidden action as our Bonus Action. We also have "Fury of the Small" so once/short rest we can add bonus damage equal to our character level when we damage a creature.

    Sorcerer 1 allows us to pick.... Fog Cloud (You know where I am going with it, no?) + CON proficency for keeping concentration (if you get Fireballed inside your Fog Cloud). But you can also start as Paladin for WIS/CHA. In most cases you can't be target by majority of "save or suck" spells due to heavy obscured.

    The Combo:

    1. Cast Fog Cloud
    2. Attack 2x with IDS + Smite + Fury of the small if we really dislike someone.
    3. You attack with advantage due to Blind Fighting style. Use rapier
    4. You don't provoke OA from creature you attack inside Fog Cloude because everything is heavy obscured.
    5. You use Bonus Action: Hide to vanish from enemy sight till next turn where you will attack again. You are heavy obscured so you should have no problem with it.
    6. You have Expertise in Stealth + high Dexterity.

    In case where you fight boss with blind sight - simply use Vow of Enmity from Vengeance Paladin to have advantage on all attacks on him + use Bonus Action: Disengage to keep your hit-n-run tactic going. We wear Studded Leather + shield here

    That's it. Please remember that you are not tanky Paladin here. Your Aura will have small bonus for most of your career and you have only 14 CON. It's dirty Paladin fighting here. He backstabs from mist/fog with holy radiant power. All enemies see is flash of radiant power when they get hit by smite. But when they try to turn around and see who injured them...

    There is nobody there.... only a thick mist....


    Multiclassing:


    I think best would be 1 Sorc/12 Paladin as base. Having access to Improve Divine Smite + Immunity to fear will work nice. For rest levels you can finish as Sorcerer for more spells lots for Smites + more spells in general or some nice Sorc features, so final build could look like 1 Sorc/12 Paladin/7 Sorc.

    That's it. A dirty little green Paladin stabber :)


    Caution: Downside of both builds is that if you have party that heavy rely on getting easy advantage (Barbarian, Samurai Fighter or Hexblade) or cast a lot of single target spells (instead of happy Fireball Evoker): then remembe that Fog Cloud will counter all of that. Still it can be fun in right party :).
    I like this play style but it is hard on your party. Also You cannot see more than ten feet. Most DMs will hit you hard for reengagment when you canít see your enemy.

    Something that helps some is having a bat familiar. As an action you can see through the familiar. With cunning action you can do a lot with your bonus action. It makes it hard to attack but at least you can get around.

    Dragons Breath spell also works well with fog cloud and giving it to an ally or familiar can help.

  15. - Top - End - #885

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Hey Ludic. I think it might be good idea to add a short description in side notes next to builds so people can easly see what class is it and what it does. This will allow people to look for what they would like to play as.

    Example using my builds:

    "The Trunk Tank" (Rune Knight Grappler/Controller tank)
    "Cloud Kill" (Elven Accuracy Arcane Trickster with permanent hide during combat)

    This way if somone is looking for either a tank Rune Knight build or Arcane Trickster build - they already know where to click.

    I could help you with it if you want by looking at builds and send you proposition of short descriptions. Authors can always later propose their own if they don't like it.

    What do you think?

  16. - Top - End - #886

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
    I like this play style but it is hard on your party. Also You cannot see more than ten feet. Most DMs will hit you hard for reengagment when you canít see your enemy.

    Something that helps some is having a bat familiar. As an action you can see through the familiar. With cunning action you can do a lot with your bonus action. It makes it hard to attack but at least you can get around.

    Dragons Breath spell also works well with fog cloud and giving it to an ally or familiar can help.
    As I said- if your party heavy relies on advantage generation - be careful with it or don't use it. However if you have other melee with Blind Fight or or melee that don't generate self advantage (for example Paladins of different Oaths than Vengenace) - you are safe to use it as everyone inside Fog Cloud will attack normally.

    DM can't hit you hard because you are hidden and when you reengage enemy - you hide again after attack using bonus action.

    The only thing that can hit you is AOE, but you will be close to enemies so they will risk hitting their own too.

    It's a very potent combo but as I mentioned in Caution point: you need to know what your party composition is and if that will work with them.

  17. - Top - End - #887
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol0botmate View Post
    Hey Ludic. I think it might be good idea to add a short description in side notes next to builds so people can easly see what class is it and what it does. This will allow people to look for what they would like to play as.

    Example using my builds:

    "The Trunk Tank" (Rune Knight Grappler/Controller tank)
    "Cloud Kill" (Elven Accuracy Arcane Trickster with permanent hide during combat)

    This way if somone is looking for either a tank Rune Knight build or Arcane Trickster build - they already know where to click.

    I could help you with it if you want by looking at builds and send you proposition of short descriptions. Authors can always later propose their own if they don't like it.

    What do you think?
    This is a good idea

  18. - Top - End - #888
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Theaitetos View Post
    Heart of the Storm only triggers on spells level 1 and higher, not on cantrips.

    Edit:
    You are free to upcast the cantrip Booming Blade however and use a 1st-level spell-slot to trigger Heart of the Storm. This would definitely be worth it at higher levels; spending a 1st-level spell-slot on 3 damage for a level 6 sorcerer is just not worth it imo.
    Hi! Late to the party :)
    You can't upcast cantrips? They don't use spell slots. Or is there some houserule you use?

  19. - Top - End - #889
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
    Hi! Late to the party :)
    You can't upcast cantrips? They don't use spell slots. Or is there some houserule you use?
    Did you seriously just reply to a post from 2019 without checking the very next page to see if it was already covered?

  20. - Top - End - #890
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairfish View Post
    Did you seriously just reply to a post from 2019 without checking the very next page to see if it was already covered?
    So they're very late to the party.
    Last edited by Evaar; 2021-01-26 at 01:54 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #891
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Is it kosher to use UA for builds posted here?

  22. - Top - End - #892
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyfuel View Post
    Is it kosher to use UA for builds posted here?
    Yep. This is a fairly low-procedure thread; the only requirement is that your build must be fun and eclectic.

  23. - Top - End - #893
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    I donít have so much a build as I do a jumping off point for a gimmick that could be turned into a build. Itís a bit silly, but I feel like it has some interesting flavour that could be progressed into something fun.

    The "Road Rash" Wrestler



    Race: Tabaxi
    Stats: As high STR as possible, reasonable DEX to win initiatives but not super important, WIS13+ for multiclassing; dump INT and/or CHA.
    Class: Fighter 3 / Cleric 3
    Subclass: Rune Knight / Nature Domain
    Spells: Cleric (1st): (Speak With Animals), (Animal Friendship),
    Cleric (2nd): (Barkskin), (Spike Growth)

    The Build:

    Fighter levels 1-3 is a solid start for any character, you canít really go wrong by wearing heavy armour and a shield, and hitting things with a big stick. Donít forget to take Athletics as one of your proficient skills.

    At level 3 we become a Rune Knight because what we really want is Giantís Might - this is going to be a grapple build, albeit one with some magical assistance. For your Runes, Frost is a no-brainer as it improves our STR checks but the other one doesnít particularly matter - I like Cloud because that way you can grapple one target and keep them pinned down, but still attack another who is further away and thus assist your party.

    For levels 4-6 we pick up Cleric and choose Nature as our Domain. This keeps us quite tanky and gives us access to a few buffs and light healing, which is always nice, but the key is Nature Domain 3 where we pick up the Spike Growth spell.

    The aim of the game is this; We cast Spike Growth and let our enemies take damage as they approach us, then we use Giantís Might to go Large Sized and gain Advantage to grapple checks, which we should be reliably succeeding with at least +8 or +9 to our roll (Athletics Proficiency +3, Frost Rune +2, STR +3 minimum).

    Having suitably grappled a gently perforated enemy, we activate both our racial and class abilities - Feline Agility and Action Surge - which lets us move a huge distance, repeatedly, all in one turn, and drag our victim in a circle around the edge of the Spike Growth AoE.

    Tabaxi base-speed is 30ft; we can move, then Dash, then Action Surge to move again for a total of 90ft per turn. Normally this would be doubled for Feline Agility, but then halved because weíre dragging a grappled creature so it stays the same, for a total of 18 squares of movement.
    Spike Growth deals 2d4 damage per 5ft square traversed - thatís 36d4, which is nothing to sniff at. Next turn we stay put because Feline Agility requires us take a rest, but if thereís anything left of your victim at this point then you can spend that on ganking them with a weapon or your claws and go again the turn after (albeit without Action Surge) for a mere 24d4 damage.

    At level 6, a Barbarian will have rolled approximately (6d12) ~40HP, plus CON - call it a round 60 or so. At the same level, your average damage output for one turn is ~108, more than enough to one-shot them and possibly *just about* enough (with only a slightly above-average roll) even if they have resistance from Raging. Have fun!

    Alternative routes:

    If you feel that Cleric doesnít fit your style, you could instead substitute with 3 levels of Druid. Circle of the Land (Arctic or Mountain) both give you Spike Growth as an Ďalways preparedí spell, as well as Longstrider for yet another +10ft movement speed which stacks with any other bonuses that you have.

    Alternatively, depending on how your GM rules interactions between abilities, Circle of the Moon might be worth a look. You would have to prepare your spells normally, but there is mischief to be had in certain Wild Shapes; even if your GM insists that Feline Agility only applies if youíre a feline (not unreasonable), Panthers (CR ľ) have an innate movement speed of 50ft. Lions (CR 1) also have 50ft speed, and they are Large already - although it doesn't stack with Giant's Might for even larger size, it does mean you can grab-and-drag reliably even when you have used up your Giant Might charges for the day with Wildshape instead. Or just because it looks cool.
    If you really want to invest in this option, or are starting the game above level 1 and wonít suffer through level 1-5 too much, you could even consider the Point Buy rules for stats rather than the standard array; 8/8/8/16/16/15 (before Tabaxiís ++DEX and +CHA) sets you up to spend all your time Wild Shaped while in combat for the physical stats, and maximizes your spellcasting and social stats for outside of combat.

    You can also achieve the Grapple-And-Drag effect from a couple of other sources if you feel like being a little different. Ranger immediately springs to mind as they also get Spike Growth at level 3, but unfortunately it doesnít offer us much that we donít already get from Fighter or Cleric; same weapons, same fighting styles, worse armour, and some unrelated out of combat buffs. It will definitely work, but youíll probably need a significantly unique RP theme in mind to get much joy out of it.

    If you feel like doing something unique with your speedy Tabaxi, you could instead consider a Warlock and call upon the Dao Genie as your patron - they too get Spike Growth at 3rd level, easily overlooked among the various options available.
    Whereas Warlock itself doesnít do a lot for a grapple build, it does grant you utility in other places to prevent you from being a one-trick pon-... kitty. Pact of the Blade doesnít offer much that Rune Knight doesnít already, but Pact of the Tome turns you into a more flexible Fighter-Caster for situations where smushing someoneís face into the dirt isnít viable, as well as granting you non-Druid access to Longstrider via the Book of Ancient Secrets Invocation. Either way, the benefits of Eldritch Invocations will give you a variety of things to do elsewise and really let you personalise your build.

    Another CHA-based option is Bard. Any of the subclasses gets Magical Secrets at level 10, so although quite a late blossoming build you could play a support roll with explosive potential. It's a very different playstyle to Tanky-Cleric or Magey-Warlock too, so there's variety to be had along the way.

    Progressing the build:

    The big weakness of the build is that you have no ASIís at level 6 - youíre 1 level short in either Fighter or Cleric, so the obvious route is to round them out to Fighter 4/Cleric 4 and get that extra STR twice in two levels.

    Alternatively, if you feel that between being Large and the Frost Rune you can afford to wait, there are a couple of feats that would help. War Caster is an obvious choice; youíre required to concentrate on the lynch- pin of your gimmick, but being able to recast it one-handed if you get surprised by an enemy and donít have time to set it up before they get to you is potentially useful.
    Mobile might also be worth considering, along with other ways of improving your base speed - a +10 here translates as +6d4 extra damage in your nova turn, as well as preventing you from being slowed down by unpleasant terrain. Stacking as many movement increases as you can will present some impressive results.

    Letís say that youíve reached level 8 and you decide that youíre done with Fighter or Druid; what next?
    Monk is a pretty interesting choice, particularly if you have invested in the Point Buy stats and Druid alternative; it doubles the value of your higher WIS score, and Monk 12 is a good level both for an ASI and for +20ft movement speed. For those keeping track - between your spells (Longstrider) and abilities (Action Surge, Mobile, being a Monk), you can now drag someone 70ft, three times in one turn, for 84d4 damage. And then you punch them in the head a couple of times, all before you pick up some Boots of Speed, or before an ally casts Haste on you.

    Unfortunately none of the Monk subclasses are particularly great for what weíre doing. Way of the Astral Self is probably the best as it gives you ways to inflict Reach and AoE damage while grappling someone, although Way of Shadows makes it easier to teleport around and nab an enemy spellcaster or healer from the backline. Sun Soul gives you a reliable ranged attack that deals Fire or Radiant damage should you meet something that isnít impressed by your thorny antics, if you feel that you need to fill that niche.

    Sample configurations:

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 12 / Cleric (Nature Domain) 8
    Balanced, as all things should be. You have all of your ASIís, Fighterís Extra Attack and Clericís second Domain feature, but you can easily swap to Cleric 12/Fighter 8 if you want to focus more on spells than melee.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 4 / Druid (Circle of the Land/Arctic) 4 / Monk (Way of Astral Self) 12
    Full ASIís again, but you sacrifice versatility for optimisation. You could sacrifice 2 levels for Monk 14, but itís really not worth it for +5ft movement speed and Diamond Soul.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 6 / Druid (Circle of the Moon) 14
    Youíre going all-in on negotiating with your GM to allow Feline Agility to apply to any feline shape, but if you can get that to work then itís a strong position for you. You get Extra Attack and a spare ASI from Fighter at 6, as well your ultimate Circle ability and the highest CR feline Beastform, the Sabre-Toothed Tiger.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 3 / Warlock (Genie Patron) 17
    Lose an ASI, but gain that all important 9th level Mystic Arcanum for the full Warlock spellcasting experience. Thereís potentially an argument to trade off a couple of levels for Fighter 5 / Warlock 15 if you really want that Extra Attack and are happy to stop at an 8th level spell, but neither are going to improve upon several dozen dice worth of dragging and stabbing.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 3 / Bard (College of Lore) 6
    Who says that a spell has to be on your class's spell list in order for you to be able to cast it? The College of Lore gets Magical Secrets a little earlier than everyone else so one of your choices can be Spike Growth, and in addition by then your Cutting Words is up to d8 as a penalty for the poor dolt that you're trying to Grapple. Also offers a very different play-style as a support roll who can happily tear any single living things' face off once per rest. Progressing along this route probably involves maxing out Fighter for more ASI's and Feats, but if you're committed to the support role then rounding up to Fighter 6 gets you a couple of good ASIs and then Bard 14 is your last subclass feature.

    Artificer (Armourer) 14 / Fighter (Rune Knight) 3 / Any option to get Spike Growth 3
    Shout out to Jellypants who woke up one day and decided that they were going to wrestle the Tarrasque, and for that purpose statted The Greatest Grappler of All Time. Their build typically goes Artificer 17/Fighter 3 to get an absolutely colossal Grapple check bonus and ensure that nothing can escape you, but if you drop a couple of levels of Artificer then you lose out on nothing in terms of Grappling ability and can instead add in the Cleric/Druid/Warlock dip for Spike Growth. It's not even as MAD as you might think, since you just have to tinker a little to get enough WIS/CHA for multiclassing and then ignore it forever because everything else runs off INT and a smidge of DEX.
    Last edited by Wraith; Today at 11:23 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #894

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I donít have so much a build as I do a jumping off point for a gimmick that could be turned into a build. Itís a bit silly, but I feel like it has some interesting flavour that could be progressed into something fun.

    The "Road Rash" Wrestler

    Race: Tabaxi
    Stats: As high STR as possible, reasonable DEX to win initiatives but not super important, WIS13+ for multiclassing; dump INT and/or CHA.
    Class: Fighter 3 / Cleric 3
    Subclass: Rune Knight / Nature Domain
    Spells: Cleric (1st): (Speak With Animals), (Animal Friendship),
    Cleric (2nd): (Barkskin), (Spike Growth)

    The Build:

    Fighter levels 1-3 is a solid start for any character, you canít really go wrong by wearing heavy armour and a shield, and hitting things with a big stick. Donít forget to take Athletics as one of your proficient skills.

    At level 3 we become a Rune Knight because what we really want is Giantís Might - this is going to be a grapple build, albeit one with some magical assistance. For your Runes, Frost is a no-brainer as it improves our STR checks but the other one doesnít particularly matter - I like Cloud because that way you can grapple one target and keep them pinned down, but still attack another who is further away and thus assist your party.

    For levels 4-6 we pick up Cleric and choose Nature as our Domain. This keeps us quite tanky and gives us access to a few buffs and light healing, which is always nice, but the key is Nature Domain 3 where we pick up the Spike Growth spell.

    The aim of the game is this; We cast Spike Growth and let our enemies take damage as they approach us, then we use Giantís Might to go Large Sized and gain Advantage to grapple checks, which we should be reliably succeeding with at least +8 or +9 to our roll (Athletics Proficiency +3, Frost Rune +2, STR +3 minimum).

    Having suitably grappled a gently perforated enemy, we activate both our racial and class abilities - Feline Agility and Action Surge - which lets us move a huge distance, repeatedly, all in one turn, and drag our victim in a circle around the edge of the Spike Growth AoE.

    Tabaxi base-speed is 30ft; we can move, then Dash, then Action Surge to move again for a total of 90ft per turn. Normally this would be doubled for Feline Agility, but then halved because weíre dragging a grappled creature so it stays the same, for a total of 18 squares of movement.
    Spike Growth deals 2d4 damage per 5ft square traversed - thatís 36d4, which is nothing to sniff at. Next turn we stay put because Feline Agility requires us take a rest, but if thereís anything left of your victim at this point then you can spend that on ganking them with a weapon or your claws and go again the turn after (albeit without Action Surge) for a mere 24d4 damage.

    At level 6, a Barbarian will have rolled approximately (6d12) ~40HP, plus CON - call it a round 60 or so. At the same level, your average damage output for one turn is ~108, more than enough to one-shot them and possibly *just about* enough (with only a slightly above-average roll) even if they have resistance from Raging. Have fun!

    Alternative routes:

    If you feel that Cleric doesnít fit your style, you could instead substitute with 3 levels of Druid. Circle of the Land (Arctic or Mountain) both give you Spike Growth as an Ďalways preparedí spell, as well as Longstrider for yet another +10ft movement speed which stacks with any other bonuses that you have.

    Alternatively, depending on how your GM rules interactions between abilities, Circle of the Moon might be worth a look. You would have to prepare your spells normally, but there is mischief to be had in certain Wild Shapes; even if your GM insists that Feline Agility only applies if youíre a feline (not unreasonable), Panthers (CR ľ) have an innate movement speed of 50ft. Lions (CR 1) also have 50ft speed, and they are Large already - adding Giantís Might makes you Huge and thus eligible to grapple and drag dragons through the mud if you so choose.
    If you really want to invest in this option, or are starting the game above level 1 and wonít suffer through level 1-5 too much, you could even consider the Point Buy rules for stats rather than the standard array; 8/8/8/16/16/15 (before Tabaxiís ++DEX and +CHA) sets you up to spend all your time Wild Shaped while in combat for the physical stats, and maximizes your spellcasting and social stats for outside of combat.

    You can also achieve the Grapple-And-Drag effect from a couple of other sources if you feel like being a little different. Ranger immediately springs to mind as they also get Spike Growth at level 3, but unfortunately it doesnít offer us much that we donít already get from Fighter or Cleric; same weapons, same fighting styles, worse armour, and some unrelated out of combat buffs. It will definitely work, but youíll probably need a significantly unique RP theme in mind to get much joy out of it.

    If you feel like doing something unique with your speedy Tabaxi, you could instead consider a Warlock and call upon the Dao Genie as your patron - they too get Spike Growth at 3rd level, easily overlooked among the various options available.
    Whereas Warlock itself doesnít do a lot for a grapple build, it does grant you utility in other places to prevent you from being a one-trick pon-... kitty. Pact of the Blade doesnít offer much that Rune Knight doesnít already, but Pact of the Tome turns you into a more flexible Fighter-Caster for situations where smushing someoneís face into the dirt isnít viable, as well as granting you non-Druid access to Longstrider via the Book of Ancient Secrets Invocation. Either way, the benefits of Eldritch Invocations will give you a variety of things to do elsewise and really let you personalise your build.

    Progressing the build:

    The big weakness of the build is that you have no ASIís at level 6 - youíre 1 level short in either Fighter or Cleric, so the obvious route is to round them out to Fighter 4/Cleric 4 and get that extra STR twice in two levels.

    Alternatively, if you feel that between being Large and the Frost Rune you can afford to wait, there are a couple of feats that would help. War Caster is an obvious choice; youíre required to concentrate on the lynch- pin of your gimmick, but being able to recast it one-handed if you get surprised by an enemy and donít have time to set it up before they get to you is potentially useful.
    Mobile might also be worth considering, along with other ways of improving your base speed - a +10 here translates as +6d4 extra damage in your nova turn, as well as preventing you from being slowed down by unpleasant terrain. Stacking as many movement increases as you can will present some impressive results.

    Letís say that youíve reached level 8 and you decide that youíre done with Fighter or Druid; what next?
    Monk is a pretty interesting choice, particularly if you have invested in the Point Buy stats and Druid alternative; it doubles the value of your higher WIS score, and Monk 12 is a good level both for an ASI and for +20ft movement speed. For those keeping track - between your spells (Longstrider) and abilities (Action Surge, Mobile, being a Monk), you can now drag someone 70ft, three times in one turn, for 84d4 damage. And then you punch them in the head a couple of times, all before you pick up some Boots of Speed, or before an ally casts Haste on you.

    Unfortunately none of the Monk subclasses are particularly great for what weíre doing. Way of the Astral Self is probably the best as it gives you ways to inflict Reach and AoE damage while grappling someone, although Way of Shadows makes it easier to teleport around and nab an enemy spellcaster or healer from the backline. Sun Soul gives you a reliable ranged attack that deals Fire or Radiant damage should you meet something that isnít impressed by your thorny antics, if you feel that you need to fill that niche.

    Sample configurations:

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 12 / Cleric (Nature Domain) 8
    Balanced, as all things should be. You have all of your ASIís, Fighterís Extra Attack and Clericís second Domain feature, but you can easily swap to Cleric 12/Fighter 8 if you want to focus more on spells than melee.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 4 / Druid (Circle of the Land/Arctic) 4 / Monk (Way of Astral Self) 12
    Full ASIís again, but you sacrifice versatility for optimisation. You could sacrifice 2 levels for Monk 14, but itís really not worth it for +5ft movement speed and Diamond Soul.

    Fighter (Rune Knight 6) / Druid (Circle of the Moon) 14
    Youíre going all-in on negotiating with your GM to allow Feline Agility to apply to any feline shape, but if you can get that to work then itís a strong position for you. You get Extra Attack and a spare ASI from Fighter at 6, as well your ultimate Circle ability and the highest CR feline Beastform, the Sabre-Toothed Tiger.

    Fighter (Rune Knight) 3 / Warlock (Genie Patron) 17
    Lose an ASI, but gain that all important 9th level Mystic Arcanum for the full Warlock spellcasting experience. Thereís potentially an argument to trade off a couple of levels for Fighter 5 / Warlock 15 if you really want that Extra Attack and are happy to stop at an 8th level spell, but neither are going to improve upon several dozen dice worth of dragging and stabbing.
    As a big Rune Knight fan I will say that this is neat idea for low level campaign/one-shot, but overall you delay tons of RK features like Extra Attack, ASI, Runes, and worst: 7th Level runes which includes Storm Rune, aka God Rune.

    However - as far as single target Nova goes - this is very good damage to be done by yourself at such level. But at this point I would just ask another player if he wants to play Ranger or Druid and cast Spike Growth. Grappler build is honestly not really good as self-build. It's power comes from combos with other people.

    To give you some numbers: A level 7 Rune Knight can grapple 2 enemies and hold them inside Wizard Wall of Fire and Cleric Spirit Guardians + move them out and in of SGs in his turn for extra damage.

    That alone is 10d8 + 8d8 + 2x (5d8 + 4d8) damage which on average will potentially deal 162 dmg total. Of course it can go into 110 damage range if all saves will succeed (unlikely as it's total of 6 saves) but because you can grapple two targets in one turn - you double the damage your party can deal. Now imagine if you are Loxodon (3 targets) or Simic Hybrid (4 targets)- you can even double that damage becaue of Action Surge and two attacks (320 dmg!). And you still have your Storm Rune for Team Support, Hill Rune for Charm and Runic Shield for denying critical hits. Now what if you also have Druid in party? It gets crazy.

    While I really love Cleric dip on Fighter, I think you will get more by sticking to level 11 as Rune Knight or At least level 8 (more attacks - more grapples, more ASI - better Fighter) or with 1 level dip before that. Unless you have no casters in party who can combo with you.

    So what I would propose is Rune Knight 6 first and then 3 levels Druid if you want to make that Tabaxi Spike combo and you don't mind delaying best Runes so much. You can then do this with two targets instead of one and you can combo better with team + make more attacks (more grapple in one turn) if needed. Or you can do Shove + Grapple in one turn on boss. And you get 2 ASI. And that leaves your action surge for more!

    But overall - it's a neat idea of combining Tabaxi speed boost with Spike Growth- love it :)

    Grappler essentially is a force multiply on battlefield. The job is not self-made damage but to "make a damage using other people spells" - if that makes sense.

    Let's take Wall of Fire as example - NOBODY with brain will stand inside WoF or on the side that burns and take 5d8 guarantee dmg a turn. So there is a very slim chance of that to deal damage. But if you grapple two enemies and hold them inside- It is YOU who deal 5d8 dmg to each of them. Wall of Fire is just a tool that Wizard gave you. It's like giving you 5d8 melee attacks but that hit automatically and you have to spread multiattack. But it's YOU who deal that damage per turn.
    Last edited by Sol0botmate; 2021-01-27 at 08:22 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #895
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol0botmate View Post
    As a big Rune Knight fan I will say that this is neat idea for low level campaign/one-shot, but overall you delay tons of RK features like Extra Attack, ASI, Runes, and worst: 7th Level runes which includes Storm Rune, aka God Rune.
    I make no bones about it; it's a weird/silly/fun build rather than a generally powerful one, hence why I referred to it as a gimmick.

    Mostly I just wanted to find a way to run really really fast and then weaponize it, without burdening other players by asking for their support - any build in this thread can be improved by a Druid helping them out, after all.

    Some really nice suggestions though, especially in tweaking the RK/Cleric balance. Glad you enjoyed it
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  26. - Top - End - #896

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I make no bones about it; it's a weird/silly/fun build rather than a generally powerful one, hence why I referred to it as a gimmick.

    Mostly I just wanted to find a way to run really really fast and then weaponize it, without burdening other players by asking for their support - any build in this thread can be improved by a Druid helping them out, after all.

    Some really nice suggestions though, especially in tweaking the RK/Cleric balance. Glad you enjoyed it
    Silly builds are fun. I like your thinking! Here is example:

    Simic Hybrid Rune Knight 12/4 Astral Monk

    16 STR, 13 DEX, 17 CON, 12 WIS

    ASI: +2 STR, Skill Expert (athletics) +1 CON, +2 STR, RES (WIS) +1 WIS (13), +2 CON

    Now you can grapple 6 enemies in one turn - 3 with Attack Action, 3 with Action Surge.

    Hold them all in upcasted Wall of Fire, for 8d8 per turn per enemy, for total of 48d8 dmg per turn.

    Silly? Yes. MAD? Yes. Suboptimal? Yes.

    But hell it's fun to lock whole encounter by yourself :D.
    Last edited by Sol0botmate; 2021-01-27 at 08:36 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #897
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Remember that the Monk can let you Dash an extra time as a bonus action.

    So the Monk build has a 70ft base speed and can potentially go [Grapple and Shove] →[Feline Agility] →[AS Dash] →[BA Dash], for a total speed of 210ft, or 84d4 damage from Spike Growth.
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  28. - Top - End - #898

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Remember that the Monk can let you Dash an extra time as a bonus action.

    So the Monk build has a 70ft base speed and can potentially go [Grapple and Shove] →[Feline Agility] →[AS Dash] →[BA Dash], for a total speed of 210ft, or 84d4 damage from Spike Growth.
    And Party Wizard cast Haste :D

  29. - Top - End - #899
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    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by sol0botmate
    Now you can grapple 6 enemies in one turn - 3 with Attack Action, 3 with Action Surge.
    Very nice. ftafp's Hecatoncheiros Monk uses the same principle, albeit for punching people rather than grabbing them, so there's probably an optimum number of Attacks/Action Surges to distribute as many grabs as possible in there somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Remember that the Monk can let you Dash an extra time as a bonus action.
    If you want to get really silly with multiclassing, you can do it as Rogue, too; Fighter 4 / Druid 4 / Monk 10 / Rogue 2.

    Same effect, however the extra Dash is unlimited as opposed to requiring Ki, and you get Expertise (Athletics) into the bargain. Does it matter, at level 20? Probably not, but just because we shouldn't doesn't mean that we won't

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol0botmate View Post
    And Party Wizard cast Haste :D
    And then you wear Boots of Speed.

    Base move: 30ft
    Level 10 Monk: +20ft
    Longstrider: +10ft
    Mobile feat: +10ft
    Total: 70ft per action.

    Move -> Dash -> Bonus Dash -> Hasten -> Action Surge = 350ft per turn
    Doubled (Feline Agility) = 750ft per turn
    Doubled again (Boots of Speed) = 1500ft per turn
    Halved, because grappling = 750ft per turn, or 150 squares

    300d4 damage, anyone?
    Last edited by Wraith; 2021-01-27 at 10:27 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #900

    Default Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

    Since my Trunk Trank build I was little obsessed with grapple builds and after some test playing with fellow Wizard I discovered how absolutely bonkers grapple builds are when combined with hazard spells.

    Rune Knight as we know is currently the best candidate for S-Tier grappler. Advantage in Strength checks and being able to grow to Large from level 3 and grapple shove huge enemies is a big thing. Action Surge allow for multiple CC in one turn. 3 Attacks with GWM on shoved enemies can wreck havoc. However I thought - can this be achieved on another class? Barbarian can get advantage, but they can't grow without multiclassing to Rune Knight, which is not that stupid idea.

    Barbarian 9 levels with 4 levels of Rune Knight would be able to be Large, have advantage and hit like truck or with Bear Totem - tank like crazy.

    So then came the idea of using good old, tested, and strong chasis:

    Sorcadin!

    "The Kraken!" was born!



    Race
    : Symic Hybrid - TENTACLES!
    Class variant 1: 6 Paladin Oath of Glory/12 Sorcerer (any will do, choice your favourite!)/2 Fighter
    Class variant 2: 6 Paladin Oath of Glory/4 Sorcerer/6 Paladin/4 Rune Knight (if you want to grab more Paladin features + Rune Knight Giant's Might for Tier 4 gameplay to combine with your Enlarge spell)
    Fighting Style: Blind Fighting Style (Defense if you dip Fighter later).
    Attributes: 17 STR, 15 CON, 16 CHA
    ASI: Skill Expert (Athletics) +1 STR, RES (CON), +2 CHA, +2 CHA


    The Grappler Kraken


    Oath of Glory Paladin is excellent Grappler because of two things:

    1. Channel Divinity: Peerless Athlete. As a bonus action, you can use your Channel Divinity to augment your athleticism. For the next 10 minutes, you have advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks; you can carry, push, drag, and lift twice as much weight as normal; and the distance of your long and high jumps increases by 10 feet (this extra distance costs movement as normal).

    Advantage on grapple and shove checks - check. Bonus Action. Once per short rest so 3/long rest. That is good.

    2. Enchance Abililty spell. Another source of Advantage on Athletics checks if our Channel Divinity is not available.

    3. Blind Fighting style: grappling invisible enemies + being able to use that to generate advantage for yourself when fighting Gargantual enemies

    Sorcerer levels gives us the following:

    1. Enlarge/Reduce spell. Now if needed we can make ourself Large, allowing us to grapple up to Huge enemies. This also gives us advantage on Athletic checks. Obviously Gargantual enemies are out of our reach, but we are freaking Sorcadin! We will just smite them to dust then!

    2. Fog Cloud + Darkness. This combined with Blind Fighting Style allows us to generate advantage on our attacks when we can't shove+grapple enemies. We can also grapple medium and Large enemies and cast then Fog Cloud on us giving us advantage without need to shove them.

    Simic Hybrid gives us:

    1. Extra arms (Tentacles!) to grapple up to 2 enemies without using our main hands (so we can still hold shield + sword or two-handed weapon) or up to 4 for maximum CC. We have 2 attacks, we can grapple two enemies into our party Hazard. Next turn you can shove them if you want with your weapon or just keep them there.

    To Sum it up:

    We can get advantage on Athletic checks by either spells or channel divinity. When we fight medium to large enemies we can rely on our Enchanced Ability or Channel Divinity. With Enlarge/Reduce we can increase our size up to Large, allowing us to grapple Huge enemies with advantage. We can grapple multiple enemies. We can give ourself advantage on attacks and disadvantage on enemies attacks with either Darkness (which can move with us) or with Fog Cloud.

    All that at level 10. On top of that you are still Paladin so you have Aura, Smites, LoH, heavy armor.

    We also get Metamagic so we can use that to Quicken Enchanced Ability or Enlarge/Reduce and cast it on bonus action. Enlarge/Reduce also gives you bonus 1d4 to all attacks. If you go Paladin 6/4 Sorcerer/10 Paladin you will also get IDS on level 15 for extra 1d8 dmg + 1d4 in Enlarge. Extra levels of Fighter give us Action Surge for grappling more enemies in same turn or shoving them.

    When Fighting Gargantual monsters, which lets be honest- usually don't come up till Tier 4 - you can just do standard Sorcadin stuff and smite them to death with advantage from your Darkness or Fog Cloud. It's not like you like Nova when Gargantual boss appears ;)

    Last but not least we have all good stuff of Sorcadin: Quicken BB, Quicken Spells like Darkness or Fog Cloud, Twin Buffs, Quicken Hold Person into smites, Shield, Absorb Elements, Cantrips

    Progression:

    The most important as always in Sorcadins is to get Aura and then spells. So 6 Levels of Paladin: Oath of Glory. Then at least 4 levels of Sorcerer for Enlarge/Reduce, Shield, Absorb Elements and Fog Cloud + Darkness. Then you can either go back to Paladin to grab ASI and IDS on level 15. Or go full Sorcerer. Just dip somewhere there 2 levels of Fighter at least for Action Surge or 4 for Rune Knight Giant's Might and ASI.


    How does it compare to Rune Knight?


    So the main differences are:

    Kraken can become Large on level 9. Rune Knight can become Large on level 3. That is 6 level difference before you can make grapple combos with Huge enemies. It's worth to remember that.
    Kraken can bonus action Enlarge same as Rune Knight can bonus action: Giant's Might. Rune Knight gets once per round 1d6/8/10 while Kraken gets 1d4 to all attacks. Both get advantage on Strength checks.
    Kraken can grapple two enemies in one turn. Rune Knight level 11 can grapple even 4 + shove two thanks to 6 attacks with Action Surge. Or shove + grapple 3 enemies in total.
    Kraken can use Channel Divinity for advantage and still cast on himself Darkness/Fog Cloud for advantage or Haste for extra attack.
    Kraken can Smite for huge nova like all Paladins, has Aura of Protection, Metamagic. He can fly with Fly spell, cast fireball if needed, quicken Lightning Bolt or if you take Divine Soul- use Spirit Guardians with grapples.
    Kraken has cantrips for range attacks. Rune Knight sadly does not have any.
    Rune Knight has Storm Rune, Hill Rune and Fire Rune for extra CC and team support. Plus Runic Shield.
    Kraken has better saves and team support with Aura of Protection, LoH healing, Twinning support spells, having bless etc.
    Kraken can cure from any poison. Rune Knight has resistance to poison and advantage vs it.
    Kraken can use Shield as reaction for +5 AC and Absorb Elements. Rune Knight can cancel critical hit and give himself resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
    Rune Knight can eventually Grapple shove even Gargantual enemies. But Kraken can just smite them to dust with Nova.
    Kraken can generate advantage with Fog Cloud/Darkness, which can be quicken on bonus action. Rune Knight can generate advantage with shove + grapple easier due to more attacks + action surge in same turn.

    Both are excellent grapplers. You have to chose your champion :)
    Last edited by Sol0botmate; 2021-01-28 at 11:40 PM.

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