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2022-04-18, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2022-04-18, 12:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
If you're using the Repeating Shot infusion to bypass the loading quality, then you've eliminated one of Gunner's benefits. Two, actually, since Artificer will get you proficiency with firearms. You're reducing the feat to "+1 dex, no disadvantage for firing in melee" - I'd personally be taking +2 dex (or a different half feat) over that.
Last edited by Quietus; 2022-04-18 at 12:40 AM.
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2022-04-18, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-04-25, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
The Anything But Boring Martial
Race: Mountain Dwarf
Class: Battle Master 20
Base Stats: 14 Str, 17 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha
ASI: CBE@4, SS@6, Skill Expert (Athletics Expertise, Deception Proficiency, +1 Dex)@8, +2 Dex@12, Resilient(+1 Wis)@14, Crusher(+1 Con)@16, Lucky@19
Fighting Style: Archery
Techniques: Pushing Attack, Menacing Attack, Precision Attack, Tripping Attack, Ambush, Maneuvering Attack, Quick Toss, Parry, Evasive Footwork
Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Perception, Acrobatics
Tools: Thieves' Tools, Mason's Tools, Smith's Tools, Disguise Kid, Poisoner's Kit, Woodcarver's Tools, Forgery Kit, Cook's Utensils, Wind Instruments
Equipment: Several Hand Crossbow, a sling, nets, a mount, an adamantine maul, one or more chests, the above tools, a close-topped land vehicle, a bullseye lantern
In 5e, the martial/caster disparity is one of the biggest issues with dnd's design principles. This build is meant to alleviate that, and make a damn fun character to play if I do say so myself
Tools:
One of the first things you might notice looking at this build is the massive list of tool proficiencies. This isn't just space-filling content, it's the main reason we took Mountain Dwarf as a race instead of Vuman or CL. Tool proficiencies are features, and in your case these will make up the vast majority of your out-combat utility. Here's some examples of how we'll use them:
- Disguise Kit: Stealth is one of the most commonly used skills in dnd, but despite that it's also one of the most screwed up. As a member of a party, your stealth bonus means next to nothing if the other members roll poorly, but with a disguise kit, you can often bypass this problem entirely. Need to sneak into a fortress or cult meeting? Per the rules in Xanathars, it takes 10-30 minutes to craft a costume, meaning you can make 2-6 per short rest, and for that effort your party can walk in brazenly rather than creeping around, and often get surprise rounds when attacking. Hoofing it in the woods? Ghillie Suits can provide a similar stealth advantage. Is the party necromancer worried about getting his skeletons into the city? Cover them with a full-body outfit and your problems are gone.
- Smith's Tools: You ever notice how when you try to loot a guard's body, the dm will say all they have is 2gp and a ball of lint even though they were just fighting you with a longsword, shield, shortbow and chainmail? DMs often overlook these items, as per the rules in the Monster Manual, enemy equipment is usually in poor condition and won't be bought. However, it's quite easy to fix up weapons and armor, and doing so can net you a substantial profit on resale. By my calculations the first dungeon in Baldur's Gate, Descent Into Avernus has over 1500 gp worth of nonmagical equipment in it. Despite that it's possible to clear out the entire complex with two pack mules. Beyond the monetary benefits, it only takes a DC 15 check to sunder a metal object. If you find yourself facing off against a heavily armored enemy for example, you can potentially use this to break their armor, either with your tools or the adamantine maul mentioned in the equipment
- Woodcarver's Tools: This serves much the same purpose as smiths tools for wooden objects. it's not as necessary, but it can be helpful and if your dm forces you to track ammo this should shut them up real quick.
- Mason's Tools: Per the rules in Xanathar's, Mason's Tools make your weapon attacks against stone structures do double damage. Considering a 10 foot section of stone wall only has an AC of 17 and 27 HP, this should be no trouble for you to destroy in one turn, particularly once you get your adamantine maul. This has the obvious applications of bypassing doors and staircases and causing structural damage to buildings, but it also can be used in combat to control the terrain, allowing you to create choke points your party can make use of or create alcoves for cover.
- Thieves' Tools: Probably the most heavily used tool in the game, thieves' tools are often seen merely as a go-to solution for opening locks and disarming traps, but Xanathar's added the ability to make traps during a short rest using whatever you had on hand. This can be obviously be used to protect a sleeping spot or set up an ambush, but why stop there? Chests are one of the most heavily trapped items in the game, but they weigh a mere 25 pounds. a small character with 8 str can carry almost 5 times that witout breaking a sweat. One of the simplest traps a you can build is putting a bunch of hand crossbows inside a chest and rigging a tripwire so they fire when the chest is opened. all you need to do is set it down in combat and open away from you. It's the most efficient way to turn downtime into damage, and you can pair it with poison you get from the Poisoner's Kit
- Poisoner's Kit: Poison may be the worst damage type, but 75% of the monsters in the game still have no protection to it, and 10% of all monsters in the game have some form of poison or another. If you have someone in your party with a way to get friendly poisonous creatures (e.g. find familiar, wild shape or conjure animals) you can use this to harvest as much poison as you need for your own uses, and unlike with using nature or survival, you are at no risk of poisoning yourself.
- Wind Instruments: This is vital if you have an artificer in the party, but useful otherwise. Proficiency with Wind Instruments is necessary for using Pipes of Haunting, which is one of the best options on the artificer's infusion list. Even if you don't have an artificer, this can still come in handy if you find that item or buy it
- Forgery Kit: This goes hand-in-hand with the Disguise Kit mentioned earlier. If you need to sneak into a party, this can give you invitations. If you need to command the city guard to do something for you, this can get you an order from the local nobleman. If you're making a large purchase in town, you can forge a promissory note from that same local nobleman promising payment for your purchases. As an adventurer, you are bound to meet the people in power sooner or later, so this is free influence
Combat Tactics:
It's often said that all martials ever really do in combat is take the attack action. This is often the case, but today I want to introduce some new tactics for you to make use of.
- Climbing: Players often forget it, but technically speaking, every race has a climb speed. It's half their movement speed. With a 25 foot walking speed you only have a 10 foot climbing speed, but this is more than enough to get you on top of a roof or ledge, out of reach enemy melee attacks unless they try to climb after you, which limits their attack options and might not even be possible if they have a shield or non-humanoid anatomy. These positions also make it possible for you to access various sniping points that otherwise might not have been accessible, and can aid greatly in break-ins, allowing you to bypass rooms. Many DMs require Athletics checks for climbing without a speed, but with expertise you shouldn't have too much trouble. This can also be helpful against huge and gargantuan monsters with high speeds or powerful ranged attacks, as the rules in the DMG for climbing on a creature often turns their back into a blind spot from which they're unable to target you.
- Jumping: Most people think of jumping as a tool for when you're leaping over gorges or across rooftops, but Tasha's added a more powerful use: pouncing on top of enemies. It only takes a str of 14 to high jump above an enemy's head. Landing in their space forces them to make a DC 15 Dex save or fall prone, even if no damage is dealt. While you're best at fighting at a distance, in cramped quarters where melee is unavoidable, you can use this to give you reliable advantage on attacks. Note also that you can jump more than once per turn. This means that if using your own movement speed, you can potentially subject an enemy to your ground pound 3 times in 1 turn, or even more while mounted. It also means that in cases where hazards are layers across the ground, such as with spike growth, you can easily bunny hop over them to avoid being damaged or slowed. Remember when proning your enemies to grapple them to keep them from getting up, this ensures you'll have advantage until the enemy dies
- Mounts: A trusty mount can make all the difference when it comes to fights on roads, streets and battlefields. Mounts can dash and disengage without you using any action or bonus action of your own, and often have at least twice the movement speed available to most races. This can mean a default kill against melee and even ranged enemies if you can keep your distance. A mount can also pull a chariot or wagon to give you extra cover and increase their carrying capacity. Also of note, pretty much every mount is capable of pulling off the same tricks noted above in the jumping section, giving you a way to prone enemies without relying on your own meager speed
- Sundering: See, it's never really talked about, but the rules for attacking objects don't specify that said objects can't be worn or carried. Against enemies who are reliant on spellcasting foci, ranged weapons or heavy armor, you can use attacks with your hand crossbow or adamantine maul to destroy enemy equipment, effectively declawing them in combat. Considering most foci and ranged weapons are fragile medium or smaller objects made most often of wood, you can usually manage this with one attack. Heavy armor is harder. As mentioned before, smith's tools or an adamantine maul are excellent tools for cracking hard shells open.
- Battle Master Techniques: All of these are useful tools, never forget you can use them. Menacing attack is best against melee-oriented enemies who find themselves at a distance, while Pushing Attack can be combined with crusher and either your maul or sling to fling enemies 20 feet in the air, knocking them prone and dealing bonus damage in addition to pushing them into battlefield hazards. Quick Toss with may seem like an odd choice, but against enemies without slashing attacks, you can waste an enemy's action for the cost of only a bonus action and an attack roll from you.
- Bullsye Lantern: If you have party members without darkvision, this is a must have in dark areas, particularly during nighttime fights. Unlike hooded lanterns, bullseye lanterns allow you to keep your allies hidden from view by darkness while still allowing you to see the enemy. This means the enemy has disadvantage against attacks against your allies, and your allies have advantage on attacks against those enemies. For this reason, if you're going on the offensive, you should always try to do so at night.
Last edited by ftafp; 2022-04-25 at 11:08 PM.
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2022-05-03, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
The Leech
Race: Dhampir (Small race, preferably something under 18 pounds like a mass of leeches or a kobold skeleton)
Class: Divine Soul 2, Fiend Warlock 18
Progression: Divine Soul 1, Fiend Warlock 1-5, Divine Soul 2, Fiend Warlock 6-18
Base Stats: 8 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 17 Cha
ASI: Moderately Armored(+1 Dex)@5, Gift of Alacrity(+1 Cha)@10, +2 Cha@14, Warcaster@18
Pact Boon: Pact of the Chain (Pseudodragon)
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Lance of Lethargy, Grasp of Hadar, Investment of the Chain Master
Spells of Note: Eldritch Blast, Guidance, Magic Stone, Absorb Elements, Bless, Shield, Silvery Barbs, Fear, Hunger of Hadar, Stinking Cloud, Sickening Radience, Danse Macabre, Wall of Fire
Proficiencies: Poisoner's Kit
Equipment: at least 1 live chicken and a mount
Have you ever thought to yourself something like this?
Originally Posted by You
Sucking at Support:
So, we start at level 1 with a level of Divine Soul for the standard stuff: con saves, reaction spells, bless and favored by the gods, but also with two things that are a little unusual. The first is the fangs, and the second is a chicken. As a Dhampir, you're a creature of many gifts, but your fangs are one of the more interesting ones. A number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus you can bite a living creature to do 1d4+Con damage and heal or add it to your next attack or ability check. Now, 1d4 damage on a weapon that's not capable of power attacking or bonus actions is a pretty sorry deal to use in combat, but out of combat it's actually a remarkable tool for getting bonuses to initiative rolls and skill checks, all you need is a live creature to feed off of, and a chicken is as cheap, portable and inexpensive as you can get.
Now, chickens don't exactly have a stat block in dnd but presumably they're a bit short on hit points. To get around this, we'll only bite the chicken non-lethally, which we can do since the bite is a melee attack. Rules as written damage dealt isn't the same as hit points lost, so if a chicken has 1hp and you deal 5 hp of damage, you still gain the benefits of having done 5 damage. In fact, since attacking an unconscious creature is automatically a crit, we can knock the chicken out first then bite it again for a 2d4+Con, which on this build averages +7 to initiative. How this works with massive damage isn't super clear, so a DM can rule any bite kills it, but in that case you can still punch the bird to knock it out and replace it for cheap when its used up.
At level 2 when we switch into fiend warlock, sucking on this chicken will actually do us double-duty. That's because Dark One's Blessing lets us get a sizable amount of temp hp every time we reduce a hostile creature to 0 hp. If we're biting a chicken repeatedly I assume it's going to be hostile, but if not you can always shake the cage to piss it off.
If the chicken dies at an inconvenient time like a heist or dungeon crawl, a good option to leave one enemy alive but unconscious to snack on. If it dies a lot you might find that the Beast Speech invocation is worth taking. Small insects can be found just about anywhere, and most are dumb enough to walk towards the guy dripping with blood
Sucking During Downtime:
By the time we reach level 7, we should have two very easy ways to make use of downtime activities. The first is through our familiar, the Pseudodragon. Our Pseudodragon produces a potent venom that can be harvested while it's resting per the rules in the DMG Although the DC is only 11, Investment of the Chain Master makes this poison use our spell save DC. There's no limit to how often you can do this and it only takes 1d6 minutes per attempt, so it's always a good thing to do during a short rest or at the start of a day if you can. Note that we took poisoner's kit proficiency over nature because the rules in xanathars say you can't accidentally poison yourself if you're proficient with a kit. This poison is great to supply allies at low levels, but at higher levels it can be even more potent to provide poisoned arrows to the skeletons you create with Danse Macabre. For this reason, it's good to have a mount to carry your bones for you, though you can create skeletons in the field as needed by eating the flesh of fallen enemies – something perfectly normal for a dhampir I've heard
The second way of making use of downtime is a more familiar strategy. Converting warlock slots into sorcery points and then into sorcerer slots. Despite what some of you might have heard this DOES in fact work, as the technique works by only using sorcery points as an intermediary step to create sorcerer spell slots. The only caveat is that because you max out at 2 sorcery points you can only make 1st level spell slots with this technique, but that leaves you free to cast shield, absorb elements, bless or silvery barbs as much as needed
At level 10 we get a third way of using this time. Gift of Alacrity is a great conc-free long term buff to put on the whole party. Even if your DM doesn't allow the previous trick, this is still usually completely on the table
Sucking in Combat:
Alright, combat is the main pillar of the game so lets not skimp on this. As a warlock, your main role in a battle is throwing down one concentration spell then spamming eldritch blast. The most effective way to do this is through "microwaving", i.e. using an aoe hazard spell and then repeatedly blasting the enemy back into said hazard, triggering the effect both when they enter and when they start their turn. Sickening Radiance is the spell that gave this trick its name, but Wall of Fire, Stinking Cloud and Hunger of Hadar are also great for this. Note by the way that while Hunger of Hadar blocks light, it does not block darkvision, so this is a great choice if you want to avoid the annoying parts of darkness builds.
In addition to these spells, control invocations like repelling blast and lance of lethargy are great for repositioning enemies, but special mention goes to Grasp of Hadar. As a dhampir with a climb speed, you can use this to climb up walls and whip enemies 10 feet into the air, dealing 1d6 bludgeoning damage and knocking them prone. When you're doing this, a good practice is to go prone at the end of your turn and stand up at the start of your next one. Because of spider climb you won't fall, and planking has the added bonus of imposing disadvantage on ranged attack against you, which at 15 feet up will be all of them.
Having a mount will help you keep enemies in the suck zone in wide open terrain, but your horse or donkey isn't the only pet that's going to be actively helping you in combat. There's an added bonus to the pseudodragon familiar. In addition to having 10 feet of blindsight, the pseudodragon also has limited telepathy, which unlike regular telepathy explicitly lets it project images in a creature's head. This means it can serve as the party's eyes in many situations provided it's within 100 feet, either providing reliable darkvision or blindsight as needed. It can also serve as a discount version of Rary's Telepathic bond if you need to communicate to allies. It can also grapple and carry small allies including you up into the air. Crawford has stated on twitter multiple times that this does not hinge on carrying capacity, but with it having a 45-pound carrying capacity, and you having free control over your character's weight and appearance at character creation, it should be able to carry you along with a wand, a shield and breastplate as long as your chosen form is under 18 poundsLast edited by ftafp; 2022-05-03 at 10:23 PM.
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2022-05-04, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-05, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
@LudicSavant, I don't know why my search-fu kept failing me, but I had been searching for this one for a long time: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...2&postcount=18
Okay. Here's a Goliath ice-armored TWF/grappler tank build that takes advantage of Goliath's synergy with Armor of Agathys... but never had stat mods suitable for a caster or half-caster prior to Tasha's.
Nothing wildly overpowered or anything. Just effective, fun, and a little different.
The Dancer of the Boreal Valley
Goliath Oath of Conquest 20
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2022-05-05, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Just bumping my own build here, because in hindsight I somehow missed the MPMM Earth Genasi. What a great race for this build! I daresay its probably the best. You don't have something to use your bonus action on every turn, so blade ward is basically free damage resistance, and Earth Genasi get PWT on top of this, which makes your stealth a truly insane +24.5 at level 7. So you're handily covering the build's greatest flaw (fragility) while also empowering your core concept. It's pretty much everything you could want.
Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2022-05-08, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-08, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-08, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Okay, we're about to head into this touchy diplomatic negotiation. Katrina, pray for Guidance. Ethan, put on your charming smile, but please try not to seduce anyone. Rognar, strap on your plate armor "security blanket"... we don't want your temper to screw it up like last time.
Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-08 at 11:46 AM.
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2022-05-08, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-08, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I'm a bit confused. First of all, I'm talking about my 'veteran' build upthread, which is a rogue/bm multiclass. There's no rage involved at all, the BSP resistance comes from Earth Genasi's BA Blade Ward cast. Secondly, the 'main' build I work with for most of the post is dexterity based and uses light armor, not heavy armor.
I probably should have mentioned that BW does require a free hand, which makes things a little difficult sometimes, (except on turn 1, where you can cast BW and then draw your weapon) but my point about Earth Genasi being a great race for the build still stands.Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2022-05-08, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-08, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-08, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Funnily enough, by RAW you do get any Rage benefits you'd get from your subclass. So if you don't care about getting a damage bonus (or getting advantage on Strength checks/saves), you can play a Bear Totem barbarian in full plate, giving you high AC and resistance to all non-psychic damage.
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2022-05-11, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-11, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2022-05-11, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Artificer 2/Genielock 1
Genie Vessel, Duplicate Magic Item: Bag of Holding, Homunculus
1/day, AOE banish to Astral Plane with no save.
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2022-05-19, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Been trying to figure out how to finagle certain things together lately. Dragon Fear got a bump with Fizban's, since Dragonborn in general are now a significantly stronger option, and it can be used more liberally with the way they're written. I think most of us think of Conquest Paladin when we think of fear effects, and I've posted my take on that a few pages back in this thread, but there's another class that's arguably even more effective with Dragon Fear: the Fey Wanderer, a Ranger which wants some CHA anyway due to adding WIS to CHA skill checks. Fey Wanderers can be incredible faces; the question is, how strong a face can we make?
Spoiler: big image
The Sylvan Advocate
I speak for the trees... and the trees are not happy.
The Sylvan Advocate is a mix of three subclasses: Hexblade Warlock, Fey Wanderer Ranger, and either Glamour or Eloquence Bard (I'm going Glamour, but both are good options). That's a weird set of flavors to mesh; I think the Sylvan Advocate probably started by being lured into the Feywild (or the mundane wild) by a cursed weapon of some kind, grew to love it there, and eventually returned to the Material Plane with a mission to prevent ecological catastrophe.
Race: Gem Dragonborn. Metallic is probably the overall strongest option for most people, but I decided to lean into the MAD with this build, which means we're not doing well on CON, which means its saving throws are a little less harsh. Pick your favorite Dragonborn type, though.
Class: We're trying to hit several key levels: Fey Wanderer 3, Fey Wanderer 7, Glamour Bard 3, Hexblade 1-2. I'm not 100% on what order, but I'm leaning Hexblade 1-2/Fey Wanderer 9/Glamour Bard X.
Skills: We're going to have insane CHA checks, so try to pick up the CHA skills as well as obvious ones like Perception.
Stats/Feats: Two ways to go about this part: you can go all the way in and grab only 10 CON, or you can hedge a little bit and get 12 or maybe even 14. I'm going to assume the 10 CON option, which looks like this: 8/14/10/8/16/17. Yes, we're a Ranger that's primarily CHA. Feels weird to me, too. The reason for all this is we want an odd Charisma so that we can pull out Dragon Fear at some point and have an 18 CHA. If that sounds like too many eggs in one basket, go 8/14/12/8/16/16 and use Dragon Fear and another half-feat to bump your CON. Coward.
Progression:
Not going to lie, this character concept seems like a slow starter no matter how I envision it. So be okay with that.
Spoiler: wall of textThere are many ways to peel this particular orange, but here's what I think I'd do. Start Hexblade 2. Medium armor and shield proficiency along with the Shield spell will help keep us alive despite our low CON, and we won't feel hampered by our 14 DEX if we need to use a weapon at any point. Go Agonizing and Repelling Blast, unless you want to pick up more skill proficiencies via Beguiling Influence. This will at least give us a decent baseline thing to do in combat at all levels while we focus on upping our utility game.
At 3, we're grabbing our first Ranger levels, and staying in Ranger until we're Hexblade 2/Fey Wanderer 7. Favored Foe works with Eldritch Blast, which is a nice little substitute for Hex, and Deft Explorer gives us an expertise option; pick your favorite CHA skill, of course. Ranger 2 lets us choose a fighting style; Defense seems like the obvious choice here. We also get more Shield slots I mean spell slots.
At 5, because our primary attack option is Eldritch Blast, we get a nice little damage bump regardless of our class. Hitting Ranger 3 gives us a bag of goodies; unfortunately one of them, Dreadful Strikes, is useless to us for the moment, because it requires a weapon attack. However, getting Charm Person as a known spell is great for our purposes, and Otherworldly Glamour makes us an amazing face. How amazing? Depending on your background choices, we have proficiency in multiple CHA skills, and expertise in one (up to you which one). Our proficiency bonus is 3, our CHA is 3, and our WIS is 3, meaning we're rocking a +12 in our best CHA skill, a +9 in any others we're proficient in, and a +6 if we missed proficiency in one. Lastly, we get our bonus Dragonborn racial ability. Gem Flight for me, maybe you took something different.
Oh, and at 6, we hit Fey Wanderer 4, and get Dragon Fear. So bump all those CHA checks up by 1. Dragon Fear itself is merely okay at this point; we need Beguiling Twist to really make it shine, so for now use it as a defensive tool if someone tries to get up in your face. 7 gives us Extra Attack, though Eldritch Blast is still going to be better 99% of the time, and second-level Ranger spells. You have good WIS, though your CHA is better now; pick your favorites. 8 is not super exciting, unless a mobility bump on top of our already existing Gem Flight and Misty Step sounds appealing.
9 is our next big power spike. Our PB goes up 1, so those CHA checks get even more ridiculous (+15 on our expertise choice, +11 on proficiencies). We are Hexblade 2/Fey Wanderer 7, and that means Beguiling Twist. This ability is incredibly spicy and I don't see people talk about it enough. Advantage on saving throws vs charm and frighten is nice, but more importantly, if a creature within 120 feet of you succeeds on a saving throw vs charm or frighten, you can, with your reaction, force a different creature to also make a saving throw against charm or frighten. They can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of their turns... and if they succeed, you can trigger Beguiling Twist again, provided your reaction is available again. So we've got Dragon Fear, with its DC of 16 by my count, hitting potentially very many targets, and if a few succeed, well, we've got a backup shot now at DC 15. And we can do that combo four times per long rest. (Side note: might not be worth doing every time, since you also have Shield competing for your reaction. Think carefully.)
Fey Wanderer 8 gives us another ASI. Bump WIS for better WIS skill checks, Ranger spellcasting, and Beguiling Twist. +16.
Fey Wanderer 9 is mostly there to give us Summon Fey. There's a pretty good argument that the way to play Fey Wanderer is to rush to 9 for this spell (or 11 to get a non-concentration version) and throw everything else into full caster to upcast it. I sort of get the logic, though I won't be leaning full into that. However, after this point, we're level 11 and we still could be a better face. So between that and having Summon Fey now, let's go Bard! (Oh yeah, Eldritch Blast hits three times now.)
So there are two standout options to me for this: Eloquence is the premier face subclass, since it evens out rough patches in dice rolls. However, our minimum roll is literally 17 in our best skill (and we'll be getting two more expertises with it), so it almost seems to me like some of the power of that ability is wasted. Glamour, on the other hand, does something neat I'd like to highlight, so we'll go that way.
At level 12 we are Hexblade 2/Fey Wanderer 9/Bard 1. Bardic Inspiration is a solid support ability, and Bards get some neat low-level spell options; pick your favorites.
Level 13. Bard 2. Here's another wild one. So for starters, our net caster level has hit 7, meaning we can now upcast Summon Fey to 4th level, doubling its attack capabilities. Our PB has hit 5, so that's a +18 in our CHA expertise of choice (4 WIS, 4 CHA, 10 expertise), and another fear bomb per long rest. Finally, we have Jack of All Trades. Up to this point we've probably been missing proficiencies in certain skills because we've been grabbing CHA skills instead; it's late coming, but this makes up for quite a bit of that. A WIS skill for us with no investment is now +6; a CHA skill with no proficiency is now a +10, if we somehow haven't picked up all the CHA skills along the way. Song of Rest also comes at this level, though it's basically a ribbon for us.
Level 14, Bard 3. Enthralling Performance is a pretty ridiculous noncombat ability. Spend a minute performing, and you can charm up to CHA-mod audience members and make them advocate for you. Oh, and it involves a save. Against charm. Beguiling Twist, anyone? You can squeeze an extra charm out of the whole situation, though it perhaps wouldn't be as long-lasting. Oh, and Mantle of Inspiration lets you use your inspiration dice to spam temp HP and reaction movement, which is another criminally undersold ability. Granted the temp HP is pretty small relative to what we're dealing with this late in the game, but hey, you can move your allies out of harm's way.
If you've somehow made it this far? Level 15 goes to Bard 4. Bump WIS. You now have 20 WIS and 18 CHA. You have three expertises, which are probably Persuasion, Deception, and Intimidation if I had to guess (though maybe you took Performance instead?). +19.
At this point you've got a choice between two of the following three things: maxing CHA, Fey Wanderer 11 for concentrationless Summon Fey, or Bard 7. I'm going with the former two just by way of example.
Level 16 gives Rangers Tireless, which is a source of temp HP and the ability to drop exhaustion levels on short rests; as well as Nature's Veil, a nigh-spammable invisibility tied to your bonus action. Great way to stay alive or get advantage.
Level 17 maxes our proficiency bonus. +21. Six fear bombs per long rest. Six everything per long rest. Fey Reinforcements is another really strong ability that I'm not sure I need to go over and this is really long already. Level 18 is Ranger 12, maxing our CHA. +22, as far as I'm aware, is the highest possible bonus in basically anything? Barring stuff that adds dice like maneuvers or Soulknife dice. There isn't much point in going farther into Ranger IMO, so our last two levels go back to Bard: level 19 gives us third level Bard spells (note that Hypnotic Pattern is a charm bomb, and Fear obviously a fear bomb, so more Beguiling Twist opportunities), while level 20 gives us Mantle of Majesty. Spammable Command is not worth sneezing at, but also probably isn't the most impressive thing going on at 20, so eh.
Our total caster level at 20 is 12, which is to say we got a sixth-level spell slot at 19 as well. We can summon a triple-attacking fairy! Since 12th-level casting doesn't give us any more slots, you could also consider grabbing a third Hexblade level to upgrade those two lonely short-rest slots you've been sitting on your entire career.
Anyway, I partially wrote all this out as a way of thinking it through, and I think it turned out... alright? I mean, it might be worth playing just for the silly skill checks alone.Last edited by Dalinar; 2022-05-19 at 09:22 PM.
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2022-05-19, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Seems interesting, nice write up. Glad to see that thread inspired some thought.
if you want to push the numbers even higher for some reason, you could also pick up superior technique:commanding presence for an extra oomph once every short rest.
For flavor.... I don't know. It would perform fine, but it sort of feels like this is two character concepts grafted together at the waist. The fearbombs are great but you can't mix them in with your eldritch blasts, which you've invested a whole level into, and they also want you to be positioned aggressively to hit as many as possible with your fear nova, which you're not going to be wanting to be doing as a moderately low HP/AC character. You do have shield there I suppose.
Not trying to diss on your build! but personally I'd ditch the hexblade levels, and use druidic warrior fighting style to pick up shillelagh and guidance. IMO you don't need to pump charisma just for Dragon Fear, since its more of a room-clearer than a single target debuff. High level enemies will often be fully immune to fear anyway so there's no point trying to keep up with that particular race. So I'd go 8/14/14/8/16/15 then grab dragon fear and boost CHA at level 4. Fight with staff and shield, be plenty tanky.
....Way less damage, and arguably less survivable, but it feels more 'correct' if that makes sense.Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2022-05-20, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2021
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Sure! Like I said, lots of ways to peel the orange. Part of it was that I just really wanted to hit that ridiculous +22 number--and therefore wanted to max both CHA and WIS, which involved some sacrifices in other stats, which in turn made Hexblade appealing--but it's really not needed, and what you outlined definitely sounds more practical for an actual player character. I definitely went for sacrificing practicality in the name of pushing limits, and I tried to be explicit about that.
Hope that makes things make sense!
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2022-05-22, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2022
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
The Galaxy Monk
(I couldn't find a fitting image :c)
I was poking around and came across a fun cross class idea that seems to be both fun and thematic; Shifter, Stars Druid 2/Astral Self Monk 8. Why those levels? Because 10 is a nice number, but 2/2 is when it technically comes 'online'. Anyways; What this gets you is basically 3 forms you can shift into depending what you need done.
- Chalice form lets you toss out empowered healing words if people are taking too many hits
- Archer form lets you get some ranged attacks if something is too far away/flying
- Dragon form lets you do the fun stuff; Wisdom grappling and punching/easy concentration
That last part is the fun/gimmick part of the build, by using the racial ability you get advantage on wisdom checks (if you need it), astral form lets you use wisdom in place of strength for unarmed hits and str/dex checks(like grappling!), and dragon constellation makes it so you cant roll under a 10+modifier when its active on...wisdom checks! So you get advantage on your wisdom based grappling while its up which is both hilarious and effective. It also allows you to drop an easily maintained Faerie Fire on enemies for advantage on attacks too. So this, on top of being fun, lets you SAD it up and just kind of focus on wisdom since it increases both offense and defense for melee and casting.
On to the question/discussion part of the post however; I'm not totally sure if it should just be stars 2/astral x or if there's a better split/if its worth going into druid for more spells. One more level in druid would let you grab someone with your mind fists and then drag them through Spike Growth but, that's one less level towards your martial arts die and other monk things.
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2022-05-22, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Seems like fantastic synergy, until you look at it from an action economy standpoint...
Activating Dragon Form is a Bonus Action
Activating Astral Arms is a Bonus Action
Shifting is a Bonus Action.
So unless you have the opportunity to prep before combat, that's 3 full rounds before that combo comes online.
The saving grace is that both Dragon Form and Astral Arms last 10 minutes. So you can conceivably go into a combat with one or both of those running, when doing something like dungeon crawling or clearing out a building.
Overall, I do like the combo of Stars Druid 2/Astral Self Monk X as a WIS-SAD Monk build. You've got WIS-based melee from your Astral Arms, along with some decent WIS-based ranged options through Druid cantrips and Guiding Bolt, while also giving you access to some uses of your otherwise unused Concentration with stuff like Faerie Fire and Entangle (and taking Fey Touched for either Bless or Hex is a solid option to stack on top too).
Sort of like the oft-mentioned Cleric 1/Monk X combo, taken a step further.Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-22 at 11:41 AM.
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2022-05-22, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Kobold Natureldritch Blaster
I've been rolling around this combo in my head for a little while now, as an option for a ranged caster with some forced movement options, without playing the stereotypical Repelling/Grasping Eldritch Blaster Warlock. Not as optimized as an Eldritch Blaster and takes longer than just Level 2 to come online, but still a viable ranged attacker plus an almost-full caster. Especially in Tier 2 play.
I had previously built the concept with an Arcana Cleric 1 dip, but the release of MotM's updated Kobold now allows it to work even without the Arcana Cleric dip, thanks to their access to a WIS-based Sorcerer cantrip as a racial ability.
It looks something like this:
MotM Kobold Swarmkeeper Ranger 3 or 4/Stars Druid X
Likely starting Stars Druid to 3 or 4 -> Ranger 3 or 4 -> Stars Druid X
STR 8
DEX 13+1
CON 15
INT 10
WIS 15+2
CHA 10
Wear medium armor and use a shield, but keep your hand free for casting.
ASIs: Fey Touched (+1 WIS, Hex), Resilient CON, +2 WIS
Ranger Fighting Style: Defense (or Druidic Warrior if you want additional Druid cantrips)
Racial Cantrip: WIS-based Chill Touch (or other ranged attack roll cantrips like Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost are also options)
Druid Cantrips: Guidance*, Thorn Whip, Create Bonfire, utility cantrip(s)
Ranger Cantrip: Mage Hand*
Useful Spells: Hex*, Spike Growth, Moonbeam, Wall of Fire
Your default ranged attack combo will be Chill Touch + Archer Form. This gives you two ranged attack rolls per turn, one doing scaling Xd8 and the other doing 1d8+WISMOD until Druid 10 when it becomes 2d8+WIS. Your Gathered Swarm ability gives you the option on either one of these hits with doing either an extra 1d6 damage or attempting 15' forced movement each turn. You also have access to Hex, which you can Concentrate on to add a further 1d6 damage to both attacks per turn. Or you can concentrate on Favored Foe for an extra 1d4 damage per turn, for times when you don't want to use a spell slot or your daily free Hex casting, or the Bonus Action to shift Hex.
You also have access to Guiding Bolt, both with spell slots as well as with several free castings per day, for times when you want a slightly bigger ranged punch with your Action than just a cantrip. Hex and Gathered Swarm will apply to this too, since it's still an attack roll.
Similar to Repelling/Grasping Eldritch Blast, Gathered Swarm's 15' of forced movement is useful to combo with various hazard spells that trigger when a creature enters the area, like your own Create Bonfire, Moonbeam, and Wall of Fire, or the party Cleric's Spirit Guardians, or similar. Or for Spike Growth's 2d4 damage for each 5' of movement within.
Speaking of forced movement and Spike Growth, you can also swap in Thorn Whip as your cantrip Action when you're at closer ranges and want a 15' pull, giving you the option for both a 15' pull with Thorn Whip and a 15' push/pull with Archer Form+Gathered Swarm in the same turn. This combos really well with Spike Growth for up to 12d4 additional damage in a turn from the 30' total forced movement, on top of Thorn Whip and Archer Form's initial damage.
Create Bonfire will also sometimes be a good substitute for Chill Touch, depending on enemy positioning. You can drop a Bonfire to catch one or more enemies in it, and then use your Bonus Action Archer+Swarm to shove yet another enemy up to 15' into the Bonfire to trigger the damage on them too.
Moonbeam could also be handy, since it triggers both when an enemy enters the area for the first time on a turn as well as when they start their turn within the area. So you can combo Archer Form+Gathered Swarm's shove with Moonbeam by using your Action to cast/move Moonbeam directly behind an enemy, then BA Archer Form+Gathered Swarm to shove them backwards into the Moonbeam, triggering damage immediately from entering the Moonbeam, plus a second tick of damage on the enemy's turn for starting their turn within the Moonbeam, plus the added damage from the Archer Form hit. That's up to 4d10+1d8+WISMOD damage to one enemy in a round with a basic Archer Form attack and 2nd level Moonbeam, with added damage from upcasting Moonbeam.
Your Ranger levels also give you some additional higher level spell slots for upcasting spells like Moonbeam, Hex, Call Lightning, and Summoning spells.Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-22 at 01:06 PM.
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2022-05-22, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2022
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Shoot, i missed that specifically starry form is a bonus action, normal wild shape is just a normal action. So i guess the game plan would be to always activate the astral form, then activate stars as needed depending on the encounter. You can always do all the actions but the starry form lets you spec towards one thing or another on the fly giving you some flexibility. The shifter bonus is mostly a bonus and stacks nicely.
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2022-05-23, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Astral monk is something that's so cool and flavorful and I really want to love this build but unfortunately it feels a bit anemic. Combining 2-3 'super modes' just to win grapples feels a bit sad. If I ever play in a campaign with some monk buffs though, this is an auto-lock.
This is pretty solid, yeah. Druids really want a reliable auto-attack, since they're otherwise so dependent on powerful concentration spells that prevent most of their spell list from seeing use.Last edited by strangebloke; 2022-05-23 at 12:45 PM.
Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2022-05-23, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2021
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Some useful info on grappling as a Monk. Seems to me your best option might be to pump your Stunning Strike effectiveness if you want to grapple. Good thing you gain both accuracy and save DC by pumping WIS as Astral Self!
So I don't have a lot of time to pore over our options, but what are some things we can do to raise our accuracy as an Astral Self Monk? Good sources of advantage? How can we conserve our ki?