Tools for a trapsmith/locksmith?

[Arkhios]

A player in my group wants to make a dwarf whose clan is specialised in making magical security wards, and I thought they ought to be fairly skilled at mundane traps and locks as well. Since the artisan's tools list is quite vague about which tools are best for what (some are selfexplanatory though) I was wondering which of the official artisan's tools would be best for such a character?

I'm thinking tinker's tools, but I'm unsure if it's sufficient enough for the job.

Thoughts?

[Willie the Duck]

Based on what? Real world medieval tools? Then no. Tinkers were people who went from town to town and made/fixed things made of tin, pewter, and other things that required lesser forge equipment than bronze and iron working. Locks made out of this material would be rather flimsy. In reality ... actually no, there isn't really a real world equivalent to a ready made "trapmaker's toolkit"--the entire concept is so broad that you really need to define what kind of traps you want to make first. If it's just ropes and snares, for instance, then you need rope, and something to cut it with.

It all depends on the level of realism you want. Real world lockpicks would also be significantly heavier (and more time-consuming to use) than those PHB listed.

[Vogie]

If you're okay with magical tools, you could have a modified version of the Trap-Stealer's Rod.

As for something that makes traps, it would depend on a the trap. There are lots of rope-related traps, tripwires & suspension snares for example, but all the tools needed for those wouldn't be used in a, say, pit trap or fire trap. This dwarf, for example, may have a "Trapsmith" ability that acts as a sort of adaptive craft/profession that applies to various things that are traps - they'll gain craft(rope) when creating a trap, but would lose it if they try to, say, repair a rigging or create a grappling hook.

[ZorroGames]

Depends on the trap (yeah echo chamber) but I would start looking a blacksmithing tools if these are locks to vaults or private chambers. Sturdy, heavy, iron are all words that come to mind when I think of older technology locks.

For magic locks you should consider how they are "magicked" - is in the casting, assembly, or post physical creation spells?

[Mjolnirbear]

A locked is, in essence, a puzzle with a missing piece. When you complete the puzzle, you can proceed.

A locksmith is concerned about making his lock hard to get through. It's why most locks are metal, though any tough material can work. Tools to work the metal, as well as visualising in 3-d would be necessary.

Really any metalworking tools would work, emphasis in delicate work. Jewel makers might be the closest approximation.

Traps? There's no kit. You need to be a bit of everything: an engineer, or stonesmith, or plumber, or alchemist, or hire people to do it.

[Azgeroth]

blacksmith/tinkerer. and potentially something akin to an architect/civil engineer.

take a padlock as an example, the outer shell is thick hard metal, that is blacksmithing.

the tumbler, its pins, the springs, that is tinkering.


pit trap, first, you have to dig a hole, in such a way it isn't obviously there(no subsidence in the surrounding area) the mechanism has to both be able to support weight without falling apart, and also open freely. thats a combination of architecture (its surrounding structure) and some civil engineering (in terms of earth works without disturbing existing structures.)

the character should have proficiency with tools blacksmithing/tinkering, but also proficiency in the others as skills (not tools)

example, blacksmith. you can make all the bigger pieces for your trap, and maybe even some of the bigger hinges, the springs/gears/mechanisms need to be crafted by a tinkerer, but you can supply the design, and explain it fully.


also, if you want 'arcane lock' incoperated into it, you are going to need an abjurer, so either wizard or eldritch knight..

[Arkhios]

Thanks so much for all the replies.

I had a feeling it might be the case that no single official tool set or kit is omnipotent in this regard.

Which is why I'm considering the following solution:

Instead of granting any specialized tool proficiencies, Clan Crafter grants the character a proficiency with any tools and materials when used to craft traps and locks.

[JackPhoenix]

Thanks so much for all the replies.

I had a feeling it might be the case that no single official tool set or kit is omnipotent in this regard.

Which is why I'm considering the following solution:

Instead of granting any specialized tool proficiencies, Clan Crafter grants the character a proficiency with any tools and materials when used to craft traps and locks.

Sounds fair and I would allow it, or just homebrewed "trapmaker's tools". Other craftsmen may be able to make traps falling in their speciality, trapmaker can make any sort of trap, but not the other uses other craftsmen get from their tools.

[Snowfalcon]

I like the notion you're talking about. I'm a blacksmith of 18 years experience and have worked with jewelers, tinkers and a locksmith.

With that in mind the other thing to keep in mind is that the current edition of D&D has *abstraction* as a rather core concept. They don't spell out kit contents because in ways it would bog down the game. As with weapons and armor, rather than get into the minutia they just put an approximate label (more like labeling a variable in math in some cases) and that label has certain game effects. This is another discussion but it brings me to:

So the only necessity for a detailed kit is if you have need for the details to flavor situations or if some key elements of the toolkit and related abilities will strongly influence an adventure or campaign. I'm going to assume you do.

A locksmith's kit would be a combination of a modified smith's kit and thieve's tools together with some tools that a jeweler would be comfortable with. Where the smith is more about working with larger masses of metal the locksmith is generally going to be working with smaller quantities of higher quality steel and seeking to do so with accuracy. So smaller hammers, lighter tongs, possibly a small anvil, a hand vise, more and finer files, hack saw, abrasive stones, lubricants, and possibly an alcohol lamp. It would also include a magnifying glass of some sort (probably with a stand or head band), a good lamp with a lens and reflector (similar to a bull's eye lantern), and a set of thieves' tools. That's for "field work". A shop would have much more. And a locksmith would likely partner with a blacksmith who would produce the blanks for parts. Basically leaving the metal preparation and "rough" work to the blacksmith and focusing on the finer work of the relatively precision parts. And, yes, all of these tools were extant 2000 and more years ago in our timeline. But they were not terribly common. And the quality needs to be higher and many of these tools are hand made so the cost of the kit would be 50 gp on up.

Traps and the tools of a "trapsmith" would depend on the environment. If more in the wild a modified set of woodworking tools would be more the thing. If we're talking the makers of dungeon traps then a mixture of smith and stone working tools.

Keep in mind that in a culture like medieval Europe much of artisan's work was cooperative, especially in more complex and involved efforts. The dagger on your belt would be the product of three crafts folk: smith for the blade, horner or woodworker for the handle, leather or woodworker for the sheath. For a fancy noble's knife a jeweler and an engraver might be part of the "team" too. Again, this is where the abstraction comes in. Adventures don't usually do well if the character and player have to fret if they remembered to bring the mill vs. the bastard file along. And spending a week refining the metal to make the spring for the lock isn't that interesting to most players.

So I would make notes of what *effects* you want the tools to produce or enable within the game. Then develop a description of the kit based on the effects. And don't fret the details.

If you do want to know more about the why's of what I write here, or more about the tools and what it took to make the tools and why there were considerations, message me here or elsewhere and I'll happily explain things with details.

I would also give some thought to the cantrips and spells that such artisans would find useful. I would be all over Light, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation in my shop if such existed in the real world. Mending too. And most artisans would give a lot for Healing Word or Cure Wounds. Comprehend languages for making sense of the documents of another smith from another country. There's more.

[Arkhios]

There are different tools are used for fix the lock issue many of the locksmith have the proper tools box which they are using to fix the locks. As I used the emergency lockout services in Tampa they have proper tools box and many of the them are latest ones so it depends on the locksmith which tools he is using.

I believe you may have missed the point. This was about tools within a game. Not in use in real life. FWIW, I'm well acquainted with the tools in real life due to a past job.

In any case, this is a very old thread and the purpose has been fulfilled a log time ago.

I'm reporting this to be closed.

[flat_footed]

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