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2020-05-28, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
My first thought for making use of a 10 foot shove ability is Polearm Master plus Sentinel. Knock a thing away, make it hard to get back to you. There’s some problem there, though, with redundant bonus action attack options.
Next thought is Oath of Conquest Paladin. When you get the aura reducing enemy speeds to 0, that ability to shove makes you the master of the battlefield. But Conquest typically pushes Charisma first, so your stats aren’t perfect.
If you can find a way to pick up Spike Growth (or just be in a party with someone who has it), you add free damage to your shove.
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2020-05-28, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2020
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Yeah, it seems like it is very hard to optimise a minotaur to make the most of its innate abilities. Much less a cavalry minotaur. :/
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2020-05-28, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
That definitely looks interesting, although aren't those goodberry uses only 4 hp per action to feed the good berry? This seems to make that more of a between rest effect? That being said, I was really looking at a mix of Celestial Warlock & Alchemist because I thought it looked like a lot of fun for a support character. That 1 level dip into Life Cleric looks great, although I think if your going to do the life cleric dip you might as well go all in on potions & divine energy with an Artificer: Alchemist 13 + Divine Sorcerer 3 + Celestial Tome-lock 3, Life Cleric 1.
Reasonably MAD: 2 casting traits to 20, and the requisite 14's to Dexterity & Constitution. (3 feats from Warlock for a total of 6 attribute points)
Proficiency: Light, Medium, & Heavy Armor, Shield, Simple Weapons, all Crossbows
2: 5th level spells: (Quickened: Armor of Agathys should be one?)
3: 4th & 3rd level spells
1st & 2nd level slots spent for extra potions & sorcery points.
2 random +10 chosen Potions not even using any real coffee lock abuse...that is just taking one short rest between making some potions.
2: 2nd level Warlock slots
Cantrips: Too Many: 16?
Invocations: Aspect of the Moon, Agonizing Blast?
Infusions: 8 known, 4 active
Spell Storing Item: I really suggest an offensive one as your healing is already absurd.
Healing:
-4d6 non-spell healing from Warlock although this requires a long rest to recover.
-2d4+9 from a Warlock Healing Word, or 2d8+9 from a Warlock Cure Light Wounds.
-Once per short rest: 2d4 to save or attack roll from Favored of the Gods.
-Alchemist Healing Words: 5th level slot is 3d4+12 per target with one more getting another 5.Last edited by Citadel97501; 2020-05-28 at 04:38 AM.
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2020-05-28, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Hey Poe! I saw your PM!
Unfortunately, I don't think you're missing much when you say there's not a ton of super juicy synergy for the minotaur. And I am not familiar with the character of Teal'C.
That said, let's take a look at what the race offers and see how we can make the best of it:
- +2 Str / +1 Con means that (if you're using point buy) you want to pair it with Fighter or Barbarian, and not much else (for Paladins, I highly value Cha). The ability to start with 17 Str means you can even out to 18 with Heavy Armor Master or Tavern Brawler if you're so inclined.
- 1d6+Str horns. which can count as melee weapons or unarmed attacks. The best thing I can think of to do with these is to hit someone while grappling and using a shield. Unfortunately, it still has some downsides (that something like a Simic Hybrid or Loxodon Grappler wouldn't have), which is that you can't use your magic/buffed weapon, and the only type of damage worse than nonmagical BPS is Poison.
- Goring Rush: The best thing I can think of to do with this is to make it less likely that you'll lose your rage from being kited as a Barbarian. Still, the bonus action requirement means you can't do it on the turn you enter rage, which is the most important time to be able to close with the enemy. The fact that you have to use your nonmagical 1d6+Str horns is a disadvantage, as is the fact that you can't grapple or shove with this attack.
- Hammering Horns: Another bonus action, this one is probably going to see the most use comboing with other people in your party casting hazard effects with an "enters or starts turn" clause (or other things like Spike Growth).
Ancestral Guardian seems like a good choice for them that works well with the tools they offer. As an AG, landing just one weapon attack is enough to mark a foe and maintain your rage, so Goring Rush might occasionally help. And your horns mean you can be a shield grappler without needing to invest in Tavern Brawler, kind of like the Simic Hybrid build I posted earlier in the thread (though you'll lack some of the Simic's advantages). And hammering horns lets you rack up some damage with team combos, plus helps you disengage from melee (which is something that the Ancestral Guardian actually likes to do, it's why they often take Mobile).
Basically as an AG, you make allies even tankier than raging Barbarians with respect to marked targets, so it's useful to be able to Disengage without eating OAs after marking someone. Then you can wander over and lock down some second guy with a grapple, and start bashing him in the face with your horns while still having the benefit of a shield (which I personally think is a better fighting style for AG than GWM). That sort of thing.
As for investing in Str/Con/Wis and having a spiritual side, that sounds like an Ancestral Guardian taking Res(Wis) to me. Not sure how it would match up with other aspects of Teal'C since, again, I'm not that familiar with the character.Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-05-28 at 05:08 AM.
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-05-28, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2020
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
For some reason I couldn't include your quotes in my message, LudicSavant. :/
Yeah, to be totally honest I'm very disappointed with the way they made minotaurs. They could have been a really cool race, but there just doesn't seem to be much way to get one that isn't a standard fighter or barbarian. At least not one that's competitive with a lot of other races. In some ways, I am thinking of just reskinning a different race, but I'm not sure yet. They don't even get powerful build, which is ridiculous.
My starting array (which we all start with) are 16, 15, 14, 12, 10 and 8. So I could have an 18 strength and 16 constitution right off the bat, but if I wanted paladin, I'd need to assign the 14 to that. Not ideal.
Yeah, hammering horns would definitely be pretty useful there!
I think battlemaster/ancestral guardian is probably the only thing that'll work well with this race. I would love the ability to have an immortal steed that can disappear when we enter dungeons, but taking paladin or bard and the charisma requirement just for that really can't be justified.
Thanks :)
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2020-05-28, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2020
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Hmmm... after reading your edit about ancestral guardian, it started to sound even more appealing... :)
Part of my thinking with the horns is to push someone away (a shame horns can't be used for a prone shove), thereby marking them, but since they're gone I can run off and get into combat with someone else. Or else run back to someone I need to defend. Or just hit, break off with mobile, engage someone else, then push them over then run off some more. ;)
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2020-05-28, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-05-28, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-29, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Sorcerer is a good choice, though we seem to be compounding on the healing when we more or less have it down. Also, because this is a coffeelock build that also builds up normal spellcasting slots, I have to wonder if maybe we're going about this wrong. Hospitality is a charisma race after all. What if instead of Artificer being the main class we focused on warlock?
Mark of Hospitality
Life Cleric 1/Alchemist Artificer 3/??? Sorcerer 3/??? Tome Warlock 13
By 20th level you're churning out 120 sorcery points per long rest, which is equivalent to an 18th level caster with a lot more flexibility. None of those spells would be above level 5, but you could have as many spells slots as a 20th level half-caster, churn out 20 potions, 200 hp worth of goodberries, and still have enough 14 points left over to quicken for days while you use your goodberris and alchemist potions for healing and buffs.
The question is how do you progress this monstrosity of a build?
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2020-05-29, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I would definitely say we start as Artificer, as your going straight into your role getting your defenses - Medium Armor + INT/CON saves, Weapon training, Infusions & Elixers. Then applying all of the further enhancements to your build through the other stuff. Although if your starting at level 1 you might want to squeeze in the 4th level of Artificer first just for the ASI, as otherwise its going to take forever. So something like this.
Starting at level 7 or lower: Artificer 4 - Life Cleric 1 - Celestial Warlock 4 - Divine Soul Sorcerer 3 - Celestial Warlock 5 through 12
Starting at level 8 or higher: Artificer 3 - Life Cleric 1 - Celestial Warlock 3 - Divine Soul Sorcerer 3 - Celestial Warlock 4 through 13Last edited by Citadel97501; 2020-05-29 at 04:38 PM.
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2020-05-30, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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2020-05-30, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-05-30, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2020-07-05, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Really don't want this thread to die, so uh... Any builders want to take a crack at maybe doing a "monster trapper" build? the goal being to capture monsters alive for whatever reason?
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2020-07-05, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I'll bite. I've been playing around with the new summon spells from this UA. Specifically, I think summon undead spirit has enormous potential, though it's likely to get nerfed. This build also utilizes some Invocations from the Class Variants UA.
There's a lot of different ways to go in terms of race and subclass.
Races: Almost any +CHA race will do nicely. I think the best choices are Aasimar (Protector or Scourge) is likely the best bet for damage, Changeling for max CHA and Shapechanger, Half-Drow for Half-Elf stats with free Drow spells, Tiefling for similar reasons, Ghallanda Halfling for aid as a spell known, or Warforged for extra survivability.
Subclasses: Archfey might actually be the most fitting for this challenge, since sleep will be a great tool for knocking monsters out without trapping them. It'll work a little like Pokemon--get them real low on HP, then cast sleepfor a surefire knockout. But I went with Celestial for a more support-heavy build, and because I like the flavor. Plus, Ghallanda Halfling also offers sleep.
I went into a ton of different racial options you might use. Warforged is probably the weakest of those listed, but some of my favorite flavor. I'd build a Warforged version of this build as "Reliquary," a divine machine hosting the remains of saints and summoning their spirits. I think the optimal option is the Ghallanda Halfling--aid is just really nice to have.
Jerome Gravedew, Keeper of the Grateful Dead: Ghallanda Halfling Celestial Warlock 10
Stats: STR 8 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 12 / CHA 20 (4th and 8th level ASI go into CHA)
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Investment of the Chain Master (Class Variant UA), Gift of the Everloving Ones, Voice of the Chain Master, Chain Master's Fury
Spells: eldritch blast + cantrips of choice (mind sliver from another UA takes this to the next level), armor of agathys, cure wounds, sleep, aid, invisibility, revivify, summon undead spirit, dimension door, guardian of faith, hold monster, wall of light
Jerry Gravedew has a sprite familiar with Pact of the Chain. The sprite spends most of its time invisible. In combat, you use your bonus action to command your Sprite to attack from invisibility. It should have Advantage from attacking from hiding with a +6 to hit with its longbow. On a hit, the target must make a CON save or be poisoned for 1 minute. For extra fun, if they fail the save by 5, they fall unconscious, or until it takes damage or a creature takes an action to shake it awake. Normally this a DC 10 save, but with Chain Master's Investment, it uses your spell DC instead. If mind sliver is available, this is just insane.
Now, this maneuver is more or less safe for the sprite depending on how your DM runs Initiative. Technically, the sprite acts on its own initiative, but most every DM I've played with would rather spare themselves the headache. Instead, they tend to allow the familiar to act on your initiative. This isn't essential for the combo to work, but it does help. If the sprite gets to act on or just after your turn, they can use their own action to turn invisible after you use your bonus action to command them to make one attack. Handily, Chain Master's Fury does not require the familiar's action to use.
What's great about this is it doesn't even require any limited resources to use.
Even if you don't knock your target out automatically, you can send your Putrid Spirit after any poisoned targets, granting you two extra attempts to paralyze. Presumably, you could order them to attack non-lethally, just as you could decide your own attacks are non-lethal.
Most everything else is gravy, but aid and guardian of faith's 8 hour durations make them great with Warlock spell slots. Aid, cure wounds, and revivify make for a decent support character, especially combined with Healing Light and Celestial Radiance. Inspiring Leader might be a fun feat to pick down the line. Hold monster, wall of light and sleep are some more great tools to capture creatures, especially if they're immune or resistant to poison. Summon undead spirit is also great for scouting with the Ghostly Spirit, and the Skeletal Spirit is great for damage.Last edited by Civis Mundi; 2020-07-05 at 04:09 PM.
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2020-07-05, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
These are just some first thoughts rather than a full build, but to my mind, this character has two things they need to 'do':
- Render the enemy non-hostile or (unrecoverably) incapacitated. Honestly, the simplest, all-else-fails way to do this is to just knock them out with a melee attack. Melee spell attacks work too, so there's a lot of flexibility here. There are other ways of rendering an enemy unconscious -- drow poison, sleep / eyebite spell, suffocate them somehow, have a sprite help you -- but nothing's wrong with the simplest solution. Still, if you could use any of the others to bring a fight to a close early, hey. Plus it'd be thematic.
- But... Where this might be a problem is the rare situation where a creature is immune to being unconscious. This is unfortunate. The cleanest way? Charm them somehow, either magically or not. Otherwise? This is a bit more DM-dependent territory. I could, at least, consider allowing you to apply manacles or tie up a creature as an action, provided they were incapacitated and no one else was attacking you.
Maybe bring some spells that can incapacitate, then? Most immune to unconscious are immune to paralysis and the like, though. Lure them into an actual trap you've set up in advance? (Please don't look at the cage mysteriously hanging up in the sky by a rope.) Of course, this is a pretty niche situation. Permanently containing most of these if they're unwilling is likely going to be a pain in any case, so I can't fault a monster trapper who just doesn't make the attempt.
If we do take them on, our best bet is to eschew fighting them altogether. Resilient Sphere or Polymorph are good temporary solutions, which may work if you can offload them somewhere or have somewhere to put them. (Though the Sphere only lasts a minute.) Otherwise, high-level magic is the best way: Scatter to teleport them into cages; Demiplane, Force Cage or Imprisonment to outright capture them with magic.
- But... Where this might be a problem is the rare situation where a creature is immune to being unconscious. This is unfortunate. The cleanest way? Charm them somehow, either magically or not. Otherwise? This is a bit more DM-dependent territory. I could, at least, consider allowing you to apply manacles or tie up a creature as an action, provided they were incapacitated and no one else was attacking you.
- Prevent an enemy from escaping or fleeing. Fun fact: a character who is solely incapacitated can still move. More than that, some enemies could conceivably just leave if they realise a fight's not going their way. Once the enemy's down, this is less of a concern (beyond a DM who's harsh about them trying to escape while being transported somewhere). You could, I suppose, be really fast and perceptive, hoping to use that to make fleeing untenable. Or you could reduce their movement somehow, either with magic or grappling. Or you could crowd control with spells. If you don't want to do any of that, you could try tracking them somehow.
Now, I'm reading this in more a 'animal capturer' than 'bounty hunter' type thing, and to be honest, most of the time none of what I said'll come up. Anyone who is decent in melee and brings along some rope should be a pretty good trapper, methinks. My first thought was some sort of Pied Piper-esque Bard, putting their Expertise in Animal Handling and maybe Athletics. My second thought was just to mix in some Paladin to increase their melee capabilities.
Paladin 2 / Bard X is good enough on its own merits, but for a more significant Paladin multiclass I could see, from a thematic level, Ancients Paladins or Glory Paladins having a reason to want to capture creatures alive to protect and/or showcase. The Ancients Paladin might need to twist their oath a bit to justify it, but I think you could tie it together. The Glory Paladin might just be, well, a gloryhound. See the chimera! Stay back, kids; it does bite!
Can't really beat a Wizard at just magically trapping their enemies, though. But the higher-level stuff can be easier said than done.Last edited by Lavaeolus; 2020-07-05 at 10:35 PM.
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2020-07-13, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2020-07-13, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-07-13, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2020-07-13, 11:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Also, @ludicsavant, does this build still function reasonably well as a control wizard? I’m thinking you need to do more than just cause damage all the time.
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2020-07-14, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Not really, here is the mechanical breakdown using the oil rules on page 152 of the PHB.
1) Oil can be used as an improvised weapon, and if you hit they get soaked in it.
2) The oil is lit by the target or area taking any fire damage, within a minute.
3) Once the oil is lit the target takes 5 fire damage for 2 rounds.
4) If an area is covered in oil and then lit, anyone entering the area or ending their turn in it will take 5 fire damage.
(Note: This is for one pint of oil, and you should be able to make bigger areas with more oil flasks, or alchemy jugs.)
This makes me think of trying an arsonist build :)
Tiefling: Fire resistance just in case, and its normal benefits. Flames of Phlegethos is also cool here.
-Artificer 3 - Alchemist, Alchemy Jug & Bag of Holding
-Warlock 3 - Pact of the Chain: Imp, with Repelling blast & Gift of the Ever Living ones (Maximized self healing?).
-Alchemy Jug: So that is 2 uses of an oil flask per day. Sadly you can't spend multiple infusions to give your party extra uses of this, but it is entirely possible to store it up and give it to your familiar. Its also relatively cheap at 1 sp per use.
The imp has immunity to fire, flight, and invisibility at will, and can carry up to 22 flasks (500 with the bag of holding, that is only 50 gold!), so you simply use him for oil dispersal. If he somehow gets hit or drops them or has to stay in the square he is immune. It only takes his action if he actually throws a flask of oil, and would be better off just spilling it over suitable areas which only costs an item use.
You can also make A LOT of the alchemy potions, although you will miss out on the true Coffee-Lock, Aspect of the Moon + Alchemist.
-Don't bother with this concept with certain modules, (Gives hateful glare towards Descent into Avernus...my poor Celestial Warlock with staff of the adder.)Last edited by Citadel97501; 2020-07-14 at 12:38 AM.
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2020-07-14, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
No. It just makes an oil fire square per pg152 of the PHB.
Yes. It is extremely effective as a control wizard.
Thinking of Evokers as "just doing damage all the time" is like thinking of Clerics as "just healing all the time." They actually have quite a few tricks up their sleeve that improve their ability to control the field. Sculpt Spells does some interesting things with wall and hazard spells, for example. You can even straight up tank with that build if you want to; you have an Eldritch-Knight-like AC and way more slots to burn on way better defensive and lockdown spells, including goodies like Armor of Agathys.
The thing that makes the Nuclear Wizard so good is that it does not trade versatility for raw power. It's just strong all around. The options it takes help just about everything a Wizard does, not just its damage.Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-07-14 at 04:04 AM.
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-07-14, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Thanks guys.
I’ve always had it in my head that evokers are so one dimensional and I’m really glad to hear that’s not the case.
I have a new campaign starting soon and I’m really struggling to decide what to play.
TY for all these great builds!
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2020-07-14, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I'm not sure I grasp where this line of thinking is coming from. Unlike every other caster (and half-caster) class, the wizard is the only one whose potential spell list isn't altered by their subclass. An illusionist, a transmuter, and an evoker have exactly the same spells to choose from.
Any one-dimensionality on the part of a wizard PC is entirely the fault of the player. With the exception of a DM having house rules that restrict spell list access, I guess.
I have a new campaign starting soon and I’m really struggling to decide what to play.
TY for all these great builds!
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2020-07-14, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Because it's how folks have been trained to think. Keep in mind most people skim the rulebook, myself included, and may not fully grasp all the implications of what they're reading. Evoker intuitively suggests you're going to use Evocation spells, which are mostly the blow stuff up spells. So your first impression would be that it's the blow stuff up subclass. And the features seem at first glance to be largely based around blowing stuff up better.
And like, look at the first couple sentences about Evocation from the Wizard guide on this forum and linked in the pinned thread:
Boooooom! This is when you don't want to play a sorcerer but still just kinda want to kill stuff.
It's contributions from folks like Ludic and others who can really broaden horizons. Otherwise unless you work hard to really analyze this stuff on your own and get into the nitty gritty of the rules and strategy, you're probably going to assume that the thing does what it says on the tin.
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2020-07-28, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I've been theory-crafting a build I think looks fun. As I'm about to get a chance to play it (from level 1), I thought I'd share it with the Playground. Feel free to use, abuse, or make it better. I give you:
The Skill Monkey's Country Cousin
Tabaxi Rogue (Scout)12/Warlock (Raven Queen) 3/Bard (Lore) 4/Ranger 1
OK, the point of the build is to be more of a Wilderness Skill Monkey. Background-wise, take one that fits your RP ideas, but try to make sure it doesn't have Deception/Persuasion/Nature/Survival, because you will pick those up later as class features.
Another important consideration is when to MC (or IF, when it comes to the Ranger level). In my mind, the best way to do this is 1st level in Rogue for all the skills, 2nd and 3rd in Warlock for the Raven (to make your perception beast) and Beguiling influence for two more skills (Deception/Persuasion), then take two more levels in Rogue to get into Scout and grab Survival and Nature (w/ functional Expertise). After that, take the Rogue and Bard levels as you see fit. I'd go Rogue 4 for the ASI, then start Bard. The Ranger level is an optional one. If you prefer another ASI/Feat, go Warlock 4. If you actually have exploration or a lot of difficult terrain battles, the Ranger level can really help with those.
So anyway, the actual build:
Rogue 1 - Remember that Tabaxi get's Prof in Perception and Stealth, so choose 4 other skills (not Survival/Nature/Deception/Persuasion), I like Expertise in Perception and Stealth here, but you might want yours in Thieves' Tools.
Warlock (Raven Queen) 1 - You get your Raven with all it's Perception bonuses and scouting ability. It can also provide Disadvantage for your SA.
Warlock (Raven Queen) 2 - Invocations. Grab Beguiling Influence to add Prof in Deception and Persuasion. I like Beast Speech here, also, as it fits the flavor. But your mileage may vary, depending on the campaign you are in.
Rogue 2 - Cunning Action
Rogue 3 - Take the Scout Sub-class, you add Nature and Survival w/ functional Expertise here (same thing, just not so named). You also get your first increase to Sneak Attack and a great Movement buff.
Rogue 4 - Time for an ASI/Feat. This is a great spot, as you can pump your Dex or add a feat. I like the new UA feat, Eldritch Adept, here. You will never gain another invocation through levels, so this is nice if there is something you really want. If not, Bump Dex. At this point, you have Prof in 12 total skills w/ Expertise in 4 of them.
Bard 1 - OK, this is a very flexible level. I take Bard 1 here, but you may find you need more damage. If so, take Rogue 5 to get to 3d6 SA. Alternatively, you may need the Ranger level if you are dealing with a lot of wilderness exploration. You could even grab your other Warlock levels, for another Feat or ASI. But w/ Bard 1, we get a little more spellcasting and Bardic Inspiration. Remember to grab things that improve your support role, because your CHA isn't high enough to expect to win many saves.
Bard 2 - If you went Rogue 5 last level, go ahead and take 6 for more Expertise. But you gain that next level w/ Bard 3, anyway. So Bard 2 here, primarily for Jack of All Trades. Now you are at least functional at every skill check. You also gain Song of Healing, which will help your party w/ heals even if it is a small amount.
Bard 3 - OK, you have a choice here w/ sub-class. In the description I chose Lore Bard, but Eloquence is pretty amazing here, too. Flexibility vs. Focus. Lore offers 3 more skills, giving us Prof in 15 of the 18 total skills and Expertise in 6 of them (5 if you chose Thieves' Tools). But Eloquence adds a lot of power to your Deception and Persuasion by making it impossible to roll below a 10 on those checks. Both Cutting Words and Unsettling Words are decent Bonus-Action debuffs, so go with whichever school makes more sense to your game.
Bard 4 - Get that ASI/Feat. I like Prodigy, if your DM will allow a Tabaxi to take a Racial Feat. If not, you can take Skilled to add the final three skills to your Prof list. Or max Dex. Or add a Fighting Style. Or more Spells. Or whatever. You know the drill.
Rogue 5 - SA 3d6 and Uncanny Dodge.
Rogue 6 - Expertise for two more skills. You could have proficiency in 16 skills w/ Expertise in 9 of them (if your DM let you take Prodigy) or Prof in all 18 w/ Expertise in 8 (w/ Skilled) W/ Jack of All Trades, you are more than functional in all skills at this point. (If you took Eloquence, you have less total skills, but more expertises).
From here, it's however you want it. I like to get Warlock 3 so I can add a Pact Boon (Tome for more utility, Chain for a powerful familar that can help in many ways to go with your Raven, or even Blade for for never being disarmed. I guess Talisman could help with your skills if you took Eloquence and/or Prodigy and feel like you need those last few skills to have a better chance of success. Obviously, if you plan to skip Ranger, this is a good time for Warlock 4 for another ASI/Feat. Then finish out w/ Rogue to at least 11 for Reliable Talent. I prefer 12 for that final ASI/Feat. Just another choice w/ regard to your Ranger level, or really anything you qualify for here.
Anyway, I think this can be a fun, flavorful support build that isn't totally gimped for damage (6d6 SA), particularly for a wilderness campaign.
Do your thing, GitP.
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2020-08-03, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2020
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
I'm currently playing an evoker Nuclear Wizard (lock1/wiz5 right now): I have Magic Missile, Thunderwave, Fireball and the 2 cantrips Create Bonfire and Toll the Dead. Every other spell is either for buffing or for control. I'm a firm believer in the best form of Crowd Control (death), but I don't need a hundred tools to deliver it: single target, multi target, at will. Sculpt spells in my group is immensely useful: I run with a battlemaster, a barbarian, a rogue and a champion (I'm lucky the ranger was nice enough to stay ranged).
I'd like to have a few more spells to scribe, but that's in the realm of what my DM will give me: consider he just dropped us almost naked on an island hundreds of kilometers from civilization, without any gear but a single item (I chose my spell focus!). He didn't allow me the spellbook, he gave me the possibility to recover one spell/day by scribing it somehwhere: I made ink with water and coal and started tatooing my lovely gnome body After 3 weeks I'm back to full power, but it's going to be hard to find a new spell scroll here...
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2020-08-04, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- NJ, USA
- Gender
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
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2020-08-12, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Guardian of Balance, also called a Spell Breaker
This build is specific to Eberron, and so it it's "theme" and powers.
You always thought that arcane magic and power of nature is one and the same thing - the cosmic balance, the two sides of the same coin, welded by faith. You deeply believe that we should care about nature and our roots, while using magic to bring hapiness to common people. You want to be their guide in life, a shepherd that will teach them that everything has place in a world and everything creates a balance, a wheel of life. Your divine powers, so rarely seen in Eberron, only enforce your authority and put more responsibilities on you.
You are The Guardian, who upholds this very sacred idea of Balance, the bridge between what's natural, magical and holy. And that faith gives you powers that others would only dream of. Cause your powers are of divinity, nature and arcane!
But that's not all. Even your birth was special, rare. You were born with Dragonmark that already branded you as someone destined for great things. You are Sentinel, one that protects and cares.
Build:
1 Druid/X Arcana Cleric, Mark of Sentinel Variant Human.
Stats: CON 17, DEX 14, WIS 16. You can put 10 in either INT or CHA, what you prefer.
The idea of the build is to take advantage on Mark of Sentinel features (which means we lose level 1 Magic Initiate: Druid from normal Variant Human) while still starting from level 2 with standard Arcana Cleric combo to not waste ASI and trying to catch up with Magic Initiate feat.
All the Powers You Get:
The Druid level 1 dip, which gives us:
1. Shillelagh, so our melee bread and butter, allowing us to attack in melee with our WIS stat.
2. Fearie Fire, one of the best level 1 spells in game, normally unavailable to Clerics.
3. Good Berries, which is one of the best off-combat healing source in game. Just convert all your remaining slots before long rest every day and you always have resource to heal someone between combat or even get them up by feeding them with berry. Not to mention - one berry is whole day of nutrition, which has a lot of utility value in survival situations.
4. Entangle - good CC spell that targets strength so good vs low-STR enemies (like Goblins or Kobolds for example)
5. Earth Tremor - a decent 1st level AOE spell.
6. Couple other utility spells like: Beast Bond, Animal Friendship, Longstrider, Jump, Speak with Animals
7. Ice Knife - decent offensive spell
8. Thunderwave - very good 1st level AOE spell
9 . Fog Cloud - good AOE utility spell
10. Charm Person
11. Absorb Elements - a very, very good reaction spell to have and increase our tankiness as Cleric
So as you can see that one level dip gives us absolutely tons of good stuff that Clerics normally don't get. Not to mention the mad synergy with Arcana Cleric.
Class Progression:
If you prefer to keep WIS and CHA saves vs WIS and INT saves of Druid, start as Arcana Cleric and on 2nd level take Druid. Makes really no difference. You can also start as Druid and then go Cleric. Again - makes no difference apart from proficiencies and maybe your backstory/roleplay. It also really only changes your "power" in level 1 gameplay. With Druid you can already have Good Berries/Fearie Fire and WIS attacks, while as Cleric you will have to rely on cantrips for 1st level mostly, which is as good. So chose starting class based on your backstory preference.
My would be to start as Cleric who studies magical arcanas and try to guide other to not misuse magic and use it to help others and who then learnt to study and appreciate nature and it's power and how it all fits together as perfect Balance. He seens the progression of technology in Eberron as something good, but at the same time as something that can easly disturb the balance of nature. And so he teaches others how to balance everything and uphold the best of both worlds.
Mark of Sentinel Variant Human, what you get:
1. First of all: +2 CON and +1 WIS. What do you want more on Cleric?
2. Shield spell once per long rest. Not bad, not terrible, but since it's slot-free, you won't be regretting using it when some big hit is coming your way.
3. Sentinel's Intuition - "When you make a Wisdom (Insight) or Wisdom (Perception) check, you can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the ability check". We are SAD WIS class/build here so a free d4 to Insight and Perception, which are WIS based are great bonuses to have.
4. Vigilant Guardian. "When a creature you can see within 5 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to swap places with that creature, and you are hit by the attack instead". 1/long rest. Well it's not bad utility if you are full HP and your party-member will be killed/downed by enemy attack. It can work really well vs surprise attacks. But it's not why we are here.
5. Spells of the Mark. - now this is why we are here. We get the following spells to our spelllist to chose from (which is great on Clerics who has access to their full spelllists!):
1st: compelled duel, shield of faith
2nd: warding bond, zone of truth
3rd: counterspell, protection from energy
4th: death ward, guardian of faith
5th: Bigby's hand
This mark gives us for our Arcana Cleric two very powerfull spells: Counterspell and Bigby's hand. Having Counterspell on Cleric on top of all his spells is just great. I always thought that Arcana Cleric should have both Dispel Magic and Counterspell, but here it is finally. Now no magic can stand vs us. We have so many ways to prevent and dispel enemy magic that it's a no joke. We are truly the masters of Arcana.
Bigby's Hand I don't think I have to introduce. Phenomenal spell to have, great utility + damage and something that no Cleric can get.
What your Arcana Cleric powers give you:
It all comes together now. So your mastery over Arcana Domain gives you the following benefits:
1. You of course get all the goodies of Cleric like Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Revivify, Healing Word and so on.
2. Arcane Initiate: "When you choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency in the Arcana skill, and you gain two cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. For you, these cantrips count as cleric cantrips". We all now why we are here: Booming Blade + Green Flame Blade, combining with Shillelagh, giving us: Magical Damage (Shillelagh makes Quarterstaff a magic weapon), d8 dice weapon (Shillelagh), WIS attacks and WIS damage + BB/GFB. Not only it's awesome for Cleric in front line, but it also synergize (as most of us know) we our next Arcana features
3. Spell Breaker."Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can also end one spell of your choice on that creature. The level of the spell you end must be equal to or lower than the level of the spell slot you use to cast the healing spell". - I mean come on. Think about it: you can cast upcasted healing word and dispel enemy spell from party member. Regeneration spell? Mass Healing Word? Not only that however. Your arsenal vs enemy magic is just enormous: Spell Breaker, Counterspell, Slience, Antimagic Field and Dispel Magic. You can just wave hand in combat and make enemy casters change profession to fighters after that as you deny all magic around you untill Wizards behave themselves!
4. Potent Spellcasting. "Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip". Ok, how about we add another +5 damage mod to Booming Blade and GFB. Not only to first strike but also to it's riders? Suddenly our level 11 BB will deal 3d8 + 10 and 3d8 + 5 on rider. Whose the best melee cleric now? Not to mention we also get +5 damage mod to Toll of The Dead, Sacred Flame and so on. If you took Lighting Lure instead of GFB you can now pull enemies back into your Spirit Guardians (after hitting them with BB OA) for nice 3d8 +5 damage at level 11 (12).
5. Arcane Mastery. "At 17th level, you choose four spells from the wizard spell list, one from each of the following levels: 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. You add them to your list of domain spells. Like your other domain spells, they are always prepared and count as cleric spells for you". As of you are not already an Arcane Master - now you get: Mass Suggestion/Eyebite/Magic Jar/Freezing Sphere/Tenser, Simulacrum, Feeblemind, Wish (and so - Greater Steed)? Sure, no problem.
6. Domain Spells. Most interesting ones: Magic Missile (good on Tier 1 gameplay), Magic Weapon (good to support your teammate if needed), Nystul's Magic Aura (not bad utility), Arcane Eye (again, great utility), Leomund's Secret Chest, Teleportation Circle and of course Dispel Magic.
ASI progression
So on level 5: I strongly suggest taking +2 WIS at first. While War Caster might be tempting, I don't think It's that important right now. More WIS is more direct damage from BB/GFB, higher DC on SGs, higher couterspell value/dispel magic etc.
Level 9: War Caster. Now those OA Booming Blades will hurt as crazy and you get War Caster just in the same time as you get Potent Spellcasting.
Level 13: +2 WIS obviously to get 20 WIS and maximize our DC and melee damage
Level 17: RES (CON) +1 CON for 18 CON + War Caster making our concentration pretty unbreakable.
The Sweet Taste of Your Power:
To summary, you get great Druid spells like Good Berries, Absorb Elements (which normally only Nature Cleric gets), Shillelagh, Fearie Fire and couple others, you get all anti-magic features you can think of: Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Spell Breaker, Silence, Antimagic Field. You also get BB + GFB, medium armor and shields (so at least 19 AC), absorb elements, potent spell casting WIS bonus x2 to BB/GFB and bonus to your Cleric cantrips, you get all good stuff from cleric like SGs, SW, Sacred Weapon, Regeneration etc, you get Bigby's Hand (!), you get Wish and Simulacrum on level 18.
To put that into perspective you can run into enemies with classic combo of Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapn, smacking them with GFB/BB for 4d8 + 10 (+ 3d8 + 10 on GFB to second target or 4d8 + 5 on rider from BB) and as a reaction you can cast either: Absorb Element, Counterspell or Shield. You can use Dodge action and force enemies to try to move away from you (difficult terrain), provoking OA from War Caster of BB for 8d8 + 15 damage thunder damage total. You also have access to magical damage from weapon from level 2 + best damage type thunder and magic blunt + Spirit Guardians + best anti-magic tools you can dream of.
Not to mention combos you can do with Wish, Simulacrum, having Gteater Steed and access to all level 1-8 wizard spells thanks to Wish. You can have Clone, Sim, Jar, you can have Reverse Gravity + Prismatic Wall from Sim, you can have Force Cage etc. Just tons of good stuff on top of cleric spells. Your sim can buff you with Holy Weapon for example and so on.
Also once you have Regenerate spell = with Spell Breaker each turn whoever has Regenerate on him - will dispel one hostile magical effect on him every turn from spells 7th and below level.
When it comes to armor- I leave it to your table how you treat metal armors for Druids and how you treat it for multiclass with only 1 level of Druid etc. We don't think metal armor or not makes or unmakes druid, same as being vegan or not does not make or unmake animal lover. So I leave it to you, but I don't think with normal DM, even if he will stick not "no metal armor", you will have problems finding armor/shield made from scales/stones/monster parts/chitin/monster plates etc. Remember that you are also Guardian of Balance so you don't believe in absolutes or extremes. So I run in metal half-plate :).
Alternative Build Path (no Counterspell):
Reason for this build is pretty much to give Arcana Cleric Counterspell + Bigby's Hand. I think both are perfect tools that makes Arcana Cleric best all around martial-caster-support-area denial build. Bigby's Hand on enemy caster coupled with Counterspell is just not fair even. Also thanks to Counterspell - you can't be counterspelled (because Counterspell can Couterspell :D ).
However, if you have in your party a member that will already take care of Counterspelling (ask him though if he will use and prepare it, don't just look at spelllist of class) like Wizard or Lore Bard (even more if it's Abjurer) or even Sorcerer if he want to specialize in that- then there is alternative build for this that will give Arcana Cleric few great goodies combined:
Shield spell, Absorb Elements spell and Lighting Lure cantrips (to pull enemies back into your Spirit Guardians for example or to other hazard).
So, instead of starting as Variant Human Mark of Sentinel, we start as standard Variant Human with the following stats: 14 DEX, 16 CON, 16 WIS and again: 10 in either INT or CHA.
This gives us first level feat, and we choose: Aberrant Dragonmark. What it gives us is:
1. Cantrip from Sorcerer spell list: we choose Lightning Lure
2. 1-st level spell from Sorcerer spell list which we both LEARN and can cast from dragonmark.
3. +1 CON, which will get our CON to 17, which later will get our CON to 18 with RES (CON)
Then we still dip one level Druid for Shil, berries, Absorb Elements etc.
ASI progression stay the same: +2 WIS, War Caster, +2 WIS, RES (CON) +1 (18)
With this build we lose Counterspell but we are getting even more scary in front lines with Shield spell (+5 AC on reaction) and Absorb Elemements (50% elemental damage absorbtion on reaction), which combining with our boosted SCAG cantrips + Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon makes use super scary front liner.
This alternative way but still uses Dragonmark :). Just different. You have to chose if you prefer Counterspell or Shield spell :).Last edited by Benny89; 2020-08-13 at 07:27 PM.
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2020-08-13, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2017
Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
That sounds like an utter blast Benny89, seriously that concept is definitely something I need to try for my next long term game :)