An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

[mahifish]

These are the sorts of builds that I love. Happen to have anything interesting kicking around for Ranger or Monk? Those are the two I'm struggling to connect with.

[McSkrag]

Ask and ye shall receive!

9) Big Damn Wizard Spells. This part only comes online at level 17+ so I won't spend too much time on it, but you get a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level Wizard spell known, and there are some golden choices on the Wizard list for your purposes, like Contingency or Foresight.

What you you all choose for your "Big Damn Wizard Spells" and why?

I would go with:

6th : Globe of Invulnerability - Solid defense for a tank facing mages
7th : Forcecage - Excellent battlefield control spell
8th : Maze - For when you really need to take a big dumb baddie out of combat for a few rounds
9th : Wish - because being able to cast ANY OTHER spell of 8th or lower is just too good.

[KyleG]

These are the sorts of builds that I love. Happen to have anything interesting kicking around for Ranger or Monk? Those are the two I'm struggling to connect with.

I want to play a squib Eladrin Monk with only the teleport feature. And Not just that he cant use magic but magic doesn't affect him kinda like in the sword of truth series.
"Magic can not directly harm someone who is pristinely ungifted, it can harm them indirectly. A bolt of lightning, conjured by a sorceress, will in itself not injure the pristinely ungifted, but shards of rock sent flying by the conjured bolt would still be capable of wounding them. "

[Antarx]

heh, mind if I add my own into the mix?

yes, please.

[sithlordnergal]

Perfect!

The Fey Knight

Race: Half-Elf

Classes

• Oath of the Ancients Paladin: 8
• Circle of Dreams Druid: 11
• Celestial Sorcerer: 1

Feats and Needed Cantrips

• Polearm Master
• Warcaster
• Shillelagh

Build Summary

This is mostly a support build. You should focus on your Wisdom before anything else, since that's where most of your spells are coming from, and will have access to 6th level Druid spells. You'll also have goodies like Aura of Protection to boost the saves of your allies, resistance to spell damage from Ancients Paladin, Lay on Hands and Balm of the Summer Court for some quick healing that can't be Counterspelled, and a mix of 1st level Cleric and Sorcerer spells. Eventually you'll gain the ability to teleport around the battlefield, or teleport your allies, with Hidden Paths, giving you some better mobility options and a way to save a friend if they need it. And best of all, most of those abilities don't use spells and are bonus actions, meaning you can use them and still cast something.

But just because this is a support class doesn't mean you can't hold your own in a fight. If you can get your hands on non-metal plate armor, which is do-able even in AL, you're be pretty tanky on top of all that, especially with Shield from the Sorcerer. And your damage is great too, since you can use Shillelagh to make your Quarterstaff magical, key off wisdom, and do a d8 instead of a d6. Mix that with Extra Attack, PaM's bonus action attack, and plenty of spell slots to Smite with, and you have a strong mix.

But that's not all, you're also a shoe in for magical staffs. Since you have Druid and Sorcerer, you can use almost any magical staff, such as Staff of the Woodlands, Staff of Power, or even just a Staff of Fire. While that is DM/Campaign dependent, the fact that you can use almost any staff you come across is a wonderful boon. Especially since this is an Adventures League legal build.


Strengths:

• Support capabilities, to and including protecting self and allies from spells
• On demand, non-spell, and some bonus action Healing
• Access to Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer, and Cleric (if you go Celestial) spells/cantrips
• Ability to tank extremly well, though it is dependant on DM
• Can NOVA hard thanks to Smite, plenty of spell slots, and PaM bonus action attack
• Is AL Legal

Weaknesses:

• Too many Concentration spells thanks to Druid and Pladin
• Reliance on Spell Slots for Casting and Smite
• Reliance on DM for decent Armor, or requires Scorpion Armor from ToA if playing AL
• One of the most MAD builds I've made
• Almost requires you to be Half-Elf if doing Point Buy

[MeeposFire]

Heh I have to admit that Celestial gneralist looks like a lot of fun I will have to look into that for the future. It just shows again to me that people who think that most of the warlock sucks does not know what they are talking bout.

[Fryy]

Ask and ye shall receive!

Herein are collected some builds that were made in response to advice threads and the like. Since these were responses to specific questions, I have tried to summarize the context for each. All of them are good from level 1-20 and can perform in all 3 pillars of play.

Hopefully these help provide people with some ideas for fun and viable builds. Enjoy!

Could you make an AL legal (PBH +1) version of the Celestial Generalist?

[MeeposFire]

Could you make an AL legal (PBH +1) version of the Celestial Generalist?

Isn't all the important parts of that build already AL legal? Unless variant human is not aloud in which case pick a different race and be down one ASI.

EDIT: Got it you are probably worried about booming blade and the like. You could just use one of your other attack cantrips not quite as good but still effective and then you can dump shillelagh to pick up some other fun cantrip.

[Fryy]

EDIT: Got it you are probably worried about booming blade and the like. You could just use one of your other attack cantrips not quite as good but still effective and then you can dump shillelagh to pick up some other fun cantrip.

Exactly, you would lose both the SCAG blade cantrips which seems to take some bite out of the 'melee' aspect of this build. I do like the Arcana Cleric build (also in the first post) very much.

[MeeposFire]

Exactly, you would lose both the SCAG blade cantrips which seems to take some bite out of the 'melee' aspect of this build. I do like the Arcana Cleric build (also in the first post) very much.

Yea Arcana clerics are fun.

As for the warlock it would depend on what you want to get out of the melee aspect in AL.

For instance if the important bit is to be able to deal a great deal of damage in melee range you could add crossbow expert since it would allow you to use eldritch blast up close with no problems. In order to get that you would likely need to delay getting warcaster, drop warcaster, or drop an ASI. This would not help opportunity attacks though in slight compensation you would gain back three cantrips (you would replace the two weapon ones and shillelagh would no longer be needed) so there would be that.

Or if you really like the opportunity attack aspect and want to keep warcaster just where it is you could just use sacred flame. Yes the damage is not quite as high since you do not get the additional bonus damage from them moving like you would with booming blade but you do get your celestial damage bonus to it and it is still better damage on an opportunity attack than most classes get (3d8+cha mod is decent at level 12). Since it is a saving throw it would have no issues being used in melee range.

I think for AL the second option would provide the most bang for your buck and would be thematic to boot though it would be slightly less effective when used. Though remember that you do get three more cantrips that way and if you pick some fun ones you could be even more versatile than the original build while only losing a few dice of damage on the probably relatively rare opportunity attack (if the target does not move sacred flame does essentially the same damage as booming blade for you) for instance now you can pick up minor illusion how is that for versatility?

Personally I think it is still very effective sounding to me.

[Lysimarchos]

Does anyone have any Spore Druid builds? It's one of the weaker Druid subclasses, but it's such a cool concept.

[Nhorianscum]

Does anyone have any Spore Druid builds? It's one of the weaker Druid subclasses, but it's such a cool concept.

Spore is kinda dumbstrong if and only of you abuse the hell out of animate dead. The symbiote is just more undead and concentration maintaining temp hp bloat.

Undead do suck in tier 3. Good thing we get animal shaped.

[LudicSavant]

heh, mind if I add my own into the mix?

Not at all! Go for it

I've made a Hobgoblin Wizard and a Shadar-kai Fighter (Samurai) at your recommendation, but haven't played them yet so feel free to expand on them if you like. Any other Wizard goodness you like to share, feel free.

Sure. Hobgoblin first.

Build 7: Hobgoblin Iron Wizard
All the fun of a straight-classed God Wizard with no delays whatsoever to spell learning progression, except without the squish.

In fact, you are so non-squishy that your durability outclasses many martials, all while having the devastating arcane powers that come with an undiluted Wizard 20 progression.


Hobgoblin Abjurer 1-20
Stats (Point Buy): 16 Int / 17 Con / 15 Dex (You can lower Con to 15 and/or Dex to 13 if you want more in other stats)
ASIs: Moderately Armored (+1 Dex), 20 Int, Resilient (+1 Con), Lucky

Spoiler: Race Choice

Show

Our race is Hobgoblin, for a few reasons.

First, it has ideal stat modifiers for point buy builds. +1 Int means you don't need to take any more ASIs than necessary to max Int. +2 Con means that you can start with 17 and have it get bumped up to 18 when you take that one half-feat every Wizard loves, Resilient (Con).

Second, your access to light armor means you can take the Moderately Armored half-feat to bump your Dex and give you Half-Plate and a Shield. This gives you a base 19 AC (plus the ability to benefit from magic shields and armor). And as a Wizard, you have lots of abilities that act as force multipliers on your base AC, which means that ultimately you end up harder to kill than many martials. While other races grant Medium Armor proficiency outright, they don't give you that important shield proficiency.

Third, Saving Face is just amazing. It lets you get a +5 bonus to a saving throw (or other type of d20 roll) after seeing the roll, once per short rest. And while getting the full bonus requires you to have 5 allies visible within 30 feet of you, this requirement is very easy to meet, since it totally counts familiars and skeletons and paladin mounts and the like. Compare to getting the ever-popular Lucky feat.

Those are the main reasons. Some icing on the top is that you get a better weapon proficiency (relevant at tier 1), and that your proficiency in light armor means that you don't need to spend any precious level 1 spell slots on Mage Armor at levels 1-3, and that you get Darkvision.

Being an Abjurer means that you have higher HP than a Fighter (your Ward makes up the difference in HD size and then some), and the 18 Con puts you even further ahead of the usual HP curve. And you have the base AC of a Dex+Shield Fighter. And you know how people keep saying that EKs are the tankiest Fighters because of their defensive spells? Well you get all of those defensive spells (Shield/Absorb Elements/etc), plus lots more slots for them, plus even better defensive spells (via higher level slots). And Save Face + Lucky + Resilient + Spell Resistance + defensive spells means your saves are pretty ironclad across the board.

Later on, you get Spell Resistance (which gives you Advantage on saves against spells, and resistance against damage from spells), which means you are basically as durable against spells as a Yuan-Ti Ancients Paladin with a boosted Counterspell.

Your Concentration is very difficult to break when it counts, too. First the enemy has to succeed at hitting you at all (getting past your control effects, then hitting your high AC through all your defensive abilities, etc), then you can reduce the damage you take with your ward and/or Endure Elements or Spell Resistance for a lower DC save, and then you've got up to a +15 / Lucky Constitution saving throw.

Your martial weapon proficiency only really matters at tier 1, when firing crossbows is better than cantrips. Unlike the other Wizards, you'll be firing a Heavy instead of a Light one for a little extra damage. If you want, you can even mix things up with Booming Blade in melee (in which case, see variants for War Caster). Another, more important tier 1 benefit is that you'll be spending a lot less spell slots on defensive spells. You only need to use Shield AFTER something misses you, which will happen considerably less. And you only need to use Mage Armor if you don't already have armor. This means you'll have noticeably more spell slots in the early game.

The real upshot is that you get these benefits while having a true uninterrupted spell progression. You get your Fireballs and Hypnotic Patterns at level 5, not 6. You get your Contingency at level 11, not 12. And so forth. Basically your plan is to do standard God Wizard things about as well as any other God Wizard, while just happening to be Made of Iron: surviving more damage than the party Fighter and having ironclad Concentration.

Spoiler: Some important notes on Abjuration spells

Show

I'm not going to reproduce an entire Wizard guide here (perhaps something for later...), but I will comment on some of the notable Abjuration spells, just so you have a handy reference for stuff that recharges your ward and is worth picking up with Abjuration Savant.

Globe of Invulnerability: The obvious use is keeping your enemy's spells out. A non-obvious, creative, and powerful use is using it to "Sculpt" spells around your globe. Note that you can target places within the globe, people inside are just excluded from the effects! Have fun with that.

Like that one? Then you'll go nuts for the next one: If you (or your party members) cast a spell within a Globe of Invulnerability, you can't be counterspelled (even by an upcast counterspell!) (Yes, really!)

Shield: So let me tell you a bit about armor class. It has increasing returns. As in, the graph for your effective hit points relative to the enemy's chance of hitting you looks like this:

Note: Graph necessarily doesn't take into account crit chances, since how much that impacts the curve is monster-specific. But the curve retains its general shape.

So this spell was already great mitigation when it was being used by standard 15-or-so AC Wizards. For you, it's much better. Large enemy groups especially have almost no chance of hitting you, which is a big deal because for many builds those guys are incredibly deadly throughout the game.

Not only will you be considerably harder to hit when Shield is activated, it's also better for you because you'll end up spending less spell slots on it than a typical Wizard, since people will be hitting your base AC less often.

When you reach tier 4, you can and probably should take this as one of your Spell Mastery choices, allowing you to boost your AC at will as well as recharge your ward to full quickly.

Absorb Elements: Fantastic mitigation that becomes even better now that it regenerates your ward. Yeah, it only regains 2, but look at it this way: the Life Domain's perk only restores 3 extra. Every bit counts.

Combined with your good saving throws on demand (via Saving Face, and later Resilient and Lucky), you can cut down tons of damage from save effects.

Mage Armor: This is an essential pick for other Wizards. For you, it's entirely unnecessary, which means you basically have an extra spell slot compared to other Wizards. Very noticeable at early levels.

Alarm (Ritual): A ritual that converts downtime into ward points. And makes your downtime safer to boot. And yes, this is the only Abjuration ritual on the Wizard spell list.

Banishment: One of the best single target lockdown spells just so happens to be Abjuration.

Counterspell: The Abjurer's Counterspell is the best version of Counterspell, and it restores your ward too.

Protection from Good and Evil: This is a situational spell that competes for your Concentration, but very good at the situations it excels at. And "aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead" isn't exactly a small chunk of the Monster Manuals as it is!

Full on immunity to fear, charms (which tons of effects in 5e key off of, way more than people seem to generally realize, from Dominate to Hypnotic Pattern to harpy songs), and possession. Disadvantage on all of the monster's attacks. First level spell slot. This is fantastic value if you're fighting the right creature types.

For comparison, Blur is a second level Concentration spell that only does the "disadvantage on attacks" part, but is self-only and has a tenth of the duration and monsters that don't rely on sight (or can see through illusions) can get around it.

Edit (more commentary!) Another cool thing about the Abjurer I should mention is that it's tougher to kill your otherwise squishy adds. Your familiar might actually survive a hit thanks to your Ward reaction, so things like Dragon's Breath become more reliable. It also makes it even easier to get the full bonus from Saving Face.

Even more importantly, later on your Simulacrum (which normally has half-hit points, and those hit points are costly to restore) has a regenerating, projectable ward of their own. To get an idea of the difference this makes in durability, a 14 Con Wizard at L13 has 80 hit points, and their Simulacrum has just 40. Your Simulacrum has 46 base hit points, plus a 31 hit point Ward, plus you can project your own ward in order to shield them... for a total of 108 hit points before your Simulacrum goes down. And that's before we count them generating temp HP with spell slots, or regenerating wards (way easier than regenerating Simulacrum hit points), and so forth.

Oh, and of course, that 62 hit points worth of Ward between the two of you can be projected to any of your allies.

By level 20, it's 90 hit points of ward between the two of you, and you can regenerate it at-will using Spell Mastery: Shield. And you can just project that onto anyone in the party as needed. In the mid-high level Abjurer's world, everyone is iron.

Variants/Notes:

• You can pick any Wizard subclass with a Moderately Armored Hobgoblin, really. Abjurer just makes the comparison to the Fighter's durability that much more straightforward. Anyways, want to make, say, a War Wizard who gets +9 or more to all saves at level 2? You can do that.
• I would always take Moderately Armored first and Lucky last, but other than that you can take the ASIs in whatever order depending on your priorities and playstyle.
• The Svirfneblin Abjurer is another option that often gets brought up; it'll have more ward regeneration but ultimately can be burst down more easily than the Hobgoblin in many situations. You'd basically replace Moderately Armored with the Svirfneblin magic feat that lets them cast Nondetection (an Abjuration spell that recharges your ward) at will. Note that the Svirf will have only a 25 ft movement speed, lower Constitution, Gnome Cunning won't stack with Spell Resistance, and the ward regeneration advantage largely becomes irrelevant in tier 4 (when they get Spell Mastery).
• You can lower the Dex to 14 with no loss in AC; it just benefits your Dex saves, Initiative, and low level resourceless options.
• If you roll stats, you might have extra slots for feats. In which case, here are some good ones:
  
  1. War Caster for even better Concentration saves (the main reason to take it), and the ability to Booming Blade or Banish people who try to walk away from you when they realize they can't hit you through Blur/Shield or whatever.
  2. Alert, for the same reason it's good for everyone.

Let me know your thoughts!

[Mercurias]

Oh man these are awesome.

I was wondering if anyone had a crazy-awesome Earth Genasi Ancestors or Zealot Barbarian laying around. I've been tweaking my backup for my new campaign to fit the current party.

[Yakmala]

I've played both the Celestial Tomelock and the Arcana Cleric Magic Initiate and really enjoyed them both.

The Wood Elf Battlemaster is going on my "to play" list. Great write up! The one thing I'll likely change is the order of the ASI's. I'll start with a 17 Dex and pick up Elven Accuracy first as suggested, but then follow that up with Ritual Caster at level 6 for Find Familiar. The plan is to use the Owl for a help action on the first attack, triggering the Elven Accuracy for a Trip Attack. If the Trip works, then I'll have Elven Accuracy for the second attack as well, while helping any other melee types in the party.

[Sparky McDibben]

Hobgoblin wizard looks so cool!!!

[mahifish]

Hiya! I really love the way you build characters, and was wondering if you could help me with a character I want to play, but I'm struggling on finding something that really feels right.

I know I want to play a lizardfolk, and that I want to play a low magic class. By that I mean a class whose primary function isn't as a spell caster, but some incidental casting is ok (ranger or paladin spells for example). I'd be open to any combination of ranger, barbarian, rogue, monk, and fighter. I want to specifically avoid wizard, sorcerer and cleric, but might be swayed by hexblade warlock if it were melee or ranged focused. I have a soft spot for druids, but if going druid I'd want to focus primarily on the wild shapes. I'm not sure how viable that is in 5e though. The anti-synergy with barbarian and monk's armor kinda stumped me, but those were the first ones I looked at.

We use point buy, but in the past we were able to convince the DM to let us roll and use that if it ended up better.

One of my thoughts were that the ranger or druid would have an affinity for reptiles and insects and shun mammals, but I don't know where to take that.

[LudicSavant]

Hiya! I really love the way you build characters, and was wondering if you could help me with a character I want to play, but I'm struggling on finding something that really feels right.

I know I want to play a lizardfolk, and that I want to play a low magic class. By that I mean a class whose primary function isn't as a spell caster, but some incidental casting is ok (ranger or paladin spells for example). I'd be open to any combination of ranger, barbarian, rogue, monk, and fighter. I want to specifically avoid wizard, sorcerer and cleric, but might be swayed by hexblade warlock if it were melee or ranged focused. I have a soft spot for druids, but if going druid I'd want to focus primarily on the wild shapes. I'm not sure how viable that is in 5e though. The anti-synergy with barbarian and monk's armor kinda stumped me, but those were the first ones I looked at.

We use point buy, but in the past we were able to convince the DM to let us roll and use that if it ended up better.

One of my thoughts were that the ranger or druid would have an affinity for reptiles and insects and shun mammals, but I don't know where to take that.

Lizardfolk are a lot of fun, lore-wise.

Mechanically though, they're tricky, because they're kinda anti-synergistic and none of their individual abilities are really stellar. Their natural armor doesn't do anything unless it's on a Dex build (or perhaps someone who would otherwise have no armor at all, like a Wizard), and won't work with Barbarians or Monks. Their natural weapons and Hungry Jaws want you to make Strength-based attacks (and use Constitution for the number of temp hp). And their statline has neither Dex nor Strength nor a casting stat for unarmored casters. And they don't have Darkvision.

As you can see, they're kind of all over the place. You generally benefit from Natural Armor OR Hungry Jaws OR fit snugly with their stat typing... but only one of those. And the rest of their abilities are just skill proficiencies and ribbons. I guess you could maybe argue that Hungry Jaws can be used to chow down on things out of combat (and thus not care about Strength), but some DMs might get gamey and say that you can only engage in a feeding frenzy "in battle" due to the first line of the ability. On the other hand, carrying around a live chicken to devour does seem like a rather Lizardfolky thing to do.

So we want a non-caster, that minimizes our MADness, and benefits from our racial features.

For a Barbarian, Ancestral Guardian or Zealot could be a decent choice. Both subclasses lack bonus actions, and have abilities that enjoy having the occasional extra attack from Hungry Jaws (e.g. you want to make sure their level 3 abilities proc). Also, a grappler Barbarian will appreciate the ability to attack (via bite) while wielding a shield and holding a foe down. Unfortunately your natural armor won't be doing you any favors. The main concern will be that you have to wait all the way until level 12 to max your Strength, and that's if you don't get any full feats at all before that point. The only half-feat worth considering for +1 Strength would be Tavern Brawler. Alternatively you could start with 15 Str / 17 Con and get a +1/+1 ASI. Whatever way you slice it, your main schtick will be to shove people prone and grapple them so that they can't go anywhere, then bite away despite having your hands full.

For a Dex Fighter, the extra ASIs mean that you can potentially max your stat as early as level 8. Your Natural Armor will allow you to have +1 AC over mundane half-plate while retaining your full stealth ability... almost like you took the Medium Armor Master feat. Hungry Jaws can still give you a few extra hit points from disabled foes or the like. You can start with 13 Str / 15 Dex / 16 Con / 14 Wis, get +1 Str/Dex on your first ASI, and have an at least half-decent bonus action attack 1/SR. Max out your Dex by level 8, and sneak around trying to ambush people with your good Stealth. Go Battlemaster and use a rapier.

PS: I found this thing, which you might find helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comment...folk_handbook/

[Citadel97501]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

[LudicSavant]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

Lots of options here.

One way to get flight is the racial route. Be a Winged Tiefling or an Aarakocra and come online at level 1. If permanent flight isn't allowed (entirely reasonable choice for a DM) then Protector Aasimar Warlocks work too for coming online at level 1, and have proper stats for a Warlock. There are also magic items that will grant you consistent flight, since you mentioned those. And in Ravnica, the Simic Hybrid has some crazy movement tricks with Manta Glide (since falling doesn't consume your move speed, and it converts falling distance into vertical distance)

You ideally want some form of flight where you aren't concentrating on yourself, OR a really good Concentration and some sort of contingency plan for if you fall (taking falling damage + landing prone so enemies follow up with Advantage is usually bad news for you if you if you're playing at a challenging table).

[Nhorianscum]

I was wondering if anyone has an effective ranged flying character that comes online by level 10? Mounted or self flying is fine by me, I am kind of interested in something like that as I haven't had an opportunity to try out an aerial battle yet. I was thinking Sword Bard would be easiest due to Find Greater Steed, and Mobile Flourish would let you slaughter enemy mounted flyers, while you might want to use some method of restraining to make a natural flyer fall.

Bard is not required, as I am willing to try most things. I know the Warlock was suggested as an option, in an old guide but I am not sure of a reliable method to let them fly.

Notes: 3 rare magic items at most, any printed options are OK, the game is set in Ravnica if that helps.

Orzhova Glamor Bard.

Snag find greater steed along with expertise in animal handling and athletics. Snag mounted combatant, Crack double spirit guardians and spam command "fall" on anything with wings.

[LudicSavant]

Orzhova Glamor Bard.

Snag find greater steed along with expertise in animal handling and athletics. Snag mounted combatant, Crack double spirit guardians and spam command "fall" on anything with wings.

Unfortunately doubling Spirit Guardians doesn't work. Remember: the "Range" line of a spell only defines the initial target, not all of the targets of the spell effect. Spirit Guardians initially targets you, but also targets an area. When in doubt, remember that per the general spell rules in the PHB, creatures that make a save against the spell DC are also targets of the spell. This is why (for instance) Fireball or Symbol refers to creatures caught in the area as "targets," even though Fireball initially targets a point and Symbol initially targets an object.

Some relevant references:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/04...mbo-with-steed
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/22...arget-only-you
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/com...geting_spells/

That said, Spirit Guardians is still great and well worth flying around with.

[Nhorianscum]

Unfortunately doubling Spirit Guardians doesn't work. Remember: the "Range" line of a spell only defines the initial target, not all of the targets of the spell effect. Spirit Guardians initially targets you, but also targets an area. When in doubt, remember that per the general spell rules in the PHB, creatures that make a save against the spell DC are also targets of the spell. This is why (for instance) Fireball or Symbol refers to creatures caught in the area as "targets," even though Fireball initially targets a point and Symbol initially targets an object.

Some relevant references:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/04...mbo-with-steed
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/22...arget-only-you
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/com...geting_spells/

That said, Spirit Guardians is still great and well worth flying around with.

Eh. Double SG doesn't work for more RAW reasons in that the same creature cannot be buffed/debuffed by identical spells.

It's purely for style as all of your spirits also have mounts now!

[Sol]

Why aren't Tortle's listed as a variant way for the druids to obtain okay AC?

Relatedly, any unexpectedly good/fun (preferably non-druid, since I just played a druid) Tortle builds?

[KorvinStarmast]

Friar Struk is aimed at a "Robin Hood and his Merry Men" kind of play group. Also good for urban/intrigue games.

This isn't built as an optimized anything, and there's another option I am still mulling over that starts with a Druid Magic Initiate at the beginning: because they live in Sherwood Forest.

Concept: Struk is a deceptively good brawler starting at level 2. He is also a supporter, and all around roguish cleric/unfrocked monk, starting at level 3, and Does Not Wear Armor. That's part of the theme. He uses a Quarterstaff; that's part of the theme. (Now and again a dagger or short sword will be used to pick up that bit of Sneak Attack damage, but not all that often.

Monk 1/ Rogue 1/ Cleric (Trickery) X
vHuman (PB = 11, 15, 11, 10, 15, 8); Feat = resilient Con
S 12 D 16 C 12 I 10 W 16 Ch 8
Background: Criminal.
Skills: (Monk) Athletics, Insight; (Criminal) Stealth; Deception (vH): Perception.
Tools: Dice, Disguise Kit (work this out with the DM (custom background, PHB 126) since he'll pick up thieves' tools at level 1 Rogue when he MC's ...

Build Order: Monk 1, Rogue 1; Cleric(Trickery) X

The level 2 choice to pick up Rogue, besides being thematic, is to get Expetise in Athletics. He is +5 to athletic checks (Equivalent to a fighter with 16 Str) and at Level 5 is +7 at athletic checks: with a 12 Strength. He's able to grapple or shove with some expectation of allowing his martial compadres to take adantage of proned targets.

Picks up Thieves' Tools proficiency, as well as expertise in either Deception or Persuasion.

This overcomes his generally bad Charisma somewhat - if there is a face on the party (a Robin, or an Alan Adale) he could put that expertise into Perception or Insight. As every drunken monk knows, "In Vino Veritas." Tailor this to fit what the party could use a boost on.

The real fun comes with level 1 of Trickery Domain Cleric.
Domain Spell fun: Charm Person; Disguise Self.
Handy for situations where the player/party is trying to get past guards/soldiers/trouble.

Blessing of the Trickster: .. touch a willing creature other than yourself to give it advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks. This blessing lasts for 1 hour or until you use this feature again . (PHB, Trickery Domain) Help someone in the party go sneak in somewhere.

At Cleric Level 2: more shennanigans with a perfect double. (Channel Divinity: Invoke Duplicity)

At Cleric Level 3, we find: Mirror Image; Pass without trace
Mirror Image renders AC moot for a few rounds, since the enemy hits "not you" three times. Pass Without Trace provides some "get out of town" chances for the whole party - the Merry Men run off to hide in the forest ....

Thematic Spell Choice! Enhance Ability for advantage on Athletics Checks: shove, etc.

Bull’s Strength. The target has advantage on Strength checks, and his or her carrying capacity doubles.

Cleric Level 5: Blink, Dispel Magic
They can't hit what just blinked away (AC mitigation); Dispel Magic helps get your mates out of trouble.

Cleric level 7: Dimension Door, Polymorph
More ways to "not be there when they try to hit me" or to set up the case of "Haha, try fighting a gorilla, pal!"

Between the need for a boost in Charisma checks mentioned above, and Athletics checks, Guidance looks like a "must" cantrip for this character concept at the first level of Cleric.

ASI recommendation: boosting Wisdom at the first ASI
Spell DC and AC are both boosted at level 4 (PC level 6). I'd suggest that the following ASI also be Wisdom (PC level 10) which boosts your spell DC as well as increase your armor class to 20.

That said, applying an AI to Dexterity may be needed more "to hit" and for those Dexterity saving throws that crop up with some frequency. Already proficient in Dex saves, as being a Monk first. If by level 10 cleric is at 8, the spell DC boost makes your Save DC tougher on a wide variety of spells that can confound the enemy.
IMO, the support role unlocks at level 3/Cleric 1. Bless and Shield of Faith are important to this approach. This is for the group. Eventually boost Constitution with an ASI.

Depending on how many levels up this game goes: add another level of Monk to get a few ki points and more movement, evasion, dash options (The Friar chuckles as he taunts his foes "Betcha didn't think I was that quick!") to try and avoid hits ... or ... add another level in Rogue to use Disengage as a Cunning Action. If you are not there, you can't be hit.
If they chase you they might give allies a chance for Opportunity Attack.

What appears to be a big and beefy oaf, a hard drinking cleric ... is a bit more than he appears. Not smart, not handsome, appears to be a beefy drunk. Looks can be deceiving, and you are harder to hit than it looks.

Role: a combination of support, brawler, and trickster (though not optimized with high Charisma) who is surprisingly effective at a variety of Athletic moves, and whose spells make the party better. What's more, in the brawler theme, you have an uncommon aptitude for knocking people on their butts (Shove/Prone) so that your allies can hit them with advantage. Now and again be able to shove a foe out of a window, or off of a cliff.

[LudicSavant]

Why aren't Tortle's listed as a variant way for the druids to obtain okay AC?

Because alas, I don't own the Tortle package.

[Orc_Lord]

Thanks for posting the Hob Wizard build. I had read your thoughts on that build in another post and stalked your history to find more about it, but this is a lot more clear.

[The Grumbleputt]

This thread alone is reason enough to join this forum- thanks for your hard work and clear explanations on all of these ideas.

I'd vote for any interesting Monk ideas you cook up, but really, everything has been valuable so far.

[Klorox]

Awesome thread, I’m so glad I found it!

Question though: why do the Generalist warlock and Hobgoblin Iron Wizards aim for a 16 DEX when their armors are only effective to +2? It just seems like a waste of points when we’re concerned about point buy.

I have played a very similar arcana cleric, and loved it.

That hobgoblin and celestial warlock look so freaking cool!

[LudicSavant]

Awesome thread, I’m so glad I found it!

Question though: why do the Generalist warlock and Hobgoblin Iron Wizards aim for a 16 DEX when their armors are only effective to +2? It just seems like a waste of points when we’re concerned about point buy.

I have played a very similar arcana cleric, and loved it.

That hobgoblin and celestial warlock look so freaking cool!

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.

This thread alone is reason enough to join this forum- thanks for your hard work and clear explanations on all of these ideas.