An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

[Klorox]

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.

thanks for the response.

I agree that more DEX always helps, I just don’t value a DEX above 14 while wearing medium armor in a point buy system (especially if you have no plans of going for medium armor mastery).

I see the value you present, I just think the points help more elsewhere.

YMMV

[Lyracian]

I am loving these; what I really like is that they are mostly single class builds as I was expecting to see lots of cheeze three class combo!

2: Shield and Spear Valkyrie
I already have Find Greater Steed down for my Bard and will play this if I ever go with a Paladin. It actually makes me think of Death Ward as a Magical Secret option now.

3: Wood Elf Magic Commando
Again I love the versatility here. Very easy to adjust slightly if you wanted, for instance, to play a Human or a Rogue.
My one comment would be to add Magic Initiate as a WE Magic alternative for those not useing XGtE.
You still get Guidance and can have Goodberry as your spell. Not quite as powerful as 'Pass without Trace' but gives some versatility with healing/free food. Second cantrip could be 'Thorn Whip' for pulling opponents off squishy party members or 'Produce Flame' for rule of cool.

7: Hobgoblin Iron Wizard
This makes me look at Mountain Dwarf and feel sad. Have you thought of any good builds that make use of the free Armour proficiency they get? My only idea was the Str based Rogue/Barbarian multi-class. Taking Barbarian you gain Shield use and can fight with a Rapier to still get Sneak Attack damage while using Reckless Attack.

[Dilanio]

Any eclectic ideas for a bard/ranger build. Was thinking of a horizon Walker duelist but our group all has to start as bards. Struggling on a build. My rolled stats were actually pretty good. 10 str/ 16 dex / 15 con / 16 wis / 13 Int / 15 Cha. Was picturing a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories. Any thoughts on how to make this work? Seems really MAD dependent. Probably going all the way to 12 with this campaign I was told.

[Zigludo]

[Re: mountain dwarves] Have you thought of any good builds that make use of the free Armour proficiency they get? My only idea was the Str based Rogue/Barbarian multi-class. Taking Barbarian you gain Shield use and can fight with a Rapier to still get Sneak Attack damage while using Reckless Attack.

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.

I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.

Basically you have equal melee damage output to a Fighter using a greatsword with no feats, if you can believe that. At certain breakpoints you're actually better in melee than a fighter (level 8 thanks to the ASI, level 17 thanks to cantrips jumping ahead of Fighter's extra attack.) If your opponent needs to move on its turn, you'll also out damage the Fighter that way. And if you set up Twinned Booming Blades, you'll basically always out damage the Fighter. Your survivability is marginally worse than a Fighter's. Your spell accuracy becomes quite bad, but you are super effective at maintaining concentration. In the meantime you have full spellcasting progression.

There are other variants on the same idea, like an unarmored version using Elf or Variant Human, grabbing Weapon Master for a Rapier, then maximizing DEX/CON/CHA. This version gets to add CHA modifier to damage via Green Flame Blade. But I would prefer Booming Blade generally since I find it tends to be easier to trigger the extra damage from BB than from GFB. And overall I think the Mountain Dwarf version is best, for its slightly better early damage and MUCH better early survivability.

(Plus it's funnier. I mean it's a melee sorcerer mountain dwarf with terrible mental stats who just runs at people wearing armor and hits them with his axe instead of casting spells. And it gets major swag points in my book for being mono-class with no feats.)

[Klorox]

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.

I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.

Basically you have equal melee damage output to a Fighter using a greatsword with no feats, if you can believe that. At certain breakpoints you're actually better in melee than a fighter (level 8 thanks to the ASI, level 17 thanks to cantrips jumping ahead of Fighter's extra attack.) If your opponent needs to move on its turn, you'll also out damage the Fighter that way. And if you set up Twinned Booming Blades, you'll basically always out damage the Fighter. Your survivability is marginally worse than a Fighter's. Your spell accuracy becomes quite bad, but you are super effective at maintaining concentration. In the meantime you have full spellcasting progression.

There are other variants on the same idea, like an unarmored version using Elf or Variant Human, grabbing Weapon Master for a Rapier, then maximizing DEX/CON/CHA. This version gets to add CHA modifier to damage via Green Flame Blade. But I would prefer Booming Blade generally since I find it tends to be easier to trigger the extra damage from BB than from GFB. And overall I think the Mountain Dwarf version is best, for its slightly better early damage and MUCH better early survivability.

(Plus it's funnier. I mean it's a melee sorcerer mountain dwarf with terrible mental stats who just runs at people wearing armor and hits them with his axe instead of casting spells. And it gets major swag points in my book for being mono-class with no feats.)

This sounds great!

I want to see the total write up! LMAO

[Lyracian]

Seems redundant. Barbarians already get the medium armor proficiency that Mtn. Dwarf does.

Read page 164 a Rogue that multi-classes into Barbarian does not get armour only Shield and weapons. It is the only way to just get Shield use every other feat/class that gives shield also gives armour which overlaps with the starting proficiency.

I have seen / toyed with a very, very silly Mtn. Dwarf Draconic Sorcerer that manages not only to take advantage of the free Armour proficiency, but also Dwarven Weapon Training.

Here's the silly part: You max all your physical ability scores and dump all the mental ones. Okay, now that that's out of the way, your strategy revolves around Quickening (and Twinning, whenever available) a Booming Blade attack every single turn.

Amusing but using Medium Armour makes your Draconic Resilience AC meaningless but you do get the extra hit points and resistance and it makes good use of your Battle Axe skill.

Any eclectic ideas for a bard/ranger build. Was thinking of a horizon Walker duelist but our group all has to start as bards. Struggling on a build. My rolled stats were actually pretty good. 10 str/ 16 dex / 15 con / 16 wis / 13 Int / 15 Cha. Was picturing a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories. Any thoughts on how to make this work? Seems really MAD dependent. Probably going all the way to 12 with this campaign I was told.

With those stats you should be able to be anything you want! You only need Dex for weapon attacks and Charisma for Bard Spells as you are not likely to be using Ranger spells that need a save. The main question is what level split are you thinking of? Will you end up as Bard 1/Ranger 11? 4/8?

Starting Half-Elf lets you have 17 Dex and Chr pump them both to 18 at Level 4.
You could pump Int 14 and then take Res (Con) as next feat.

Human can start with Res (Con) and round Int and Chr giving you four 16's to start.

[Dilanio]

With those stats you should be able to be anything you want! You only need Dex for weapon attacks and Charisma for Bard Spells as you are not likely to be using Ranger spells that need a save. The main question is what level split are you thinking of? Will you end up as Bard 1/Ranger 11? 4/8?

See that is the thing. I don't know much about bards and while looking over their college wasn't sure if it was worthwhile to go swords or valour. Thematically I could make them work into my backstory but didn't know if by doing so I would drastically reduce my combat, scouting effectiveness.

I don't mind staying level 1 bard but we're starting at level 3 and since we're all going bards as well our DM is giving us a boon so we get to start with a feat as well.

Just struggling with fitting the bard into the ranger levels and didn't know if there were any oddball themes I could use to make a fun but effective character for the combat/ scouting parts of the campaign.

[Lyracian]

See that is the thing. I don't know much about bards and while looking over their college wasn't sure if it was worthwhile to go swords or valour. Thematically I could make them work into my backstory but didn't know if by doing so I would drastically reduce my combat, scouting effectiveness.

I don't mind staying level 1 bard but we're starting at level 3 and since we're all going bards as well our DM is giving us a boon so we get to start with a feat as well.

Just struggling with fitting the bard into the ranger levels and didn't know if there were any oddball themes I could use to make a fun but effective character for the combat/ scouting parts of the campaign.

Your character concept was "a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories" which makes me ask why Ranger? Bard/Ranger would be to get Archery Fighting Style, Extra Attack at Level 5 and Swift Quiver spells with Magical Secrets. I would have thought Fighter or Rogue (Swashbuckler) would give you better fit for a Duelist.

The fighter level is best taken as the first level for the character to grant proficiency in con saves and heavy armor. Fighter 2 gives action surge. Eldritch Knight is a way for a bard to get shield spell, without taking sorcerer levels or using a magical secret and means your Fighter levels give you extra spell slots. Sword Bard gives you a second Fighting Style and some Flourish moves.

Start with Defense (+1 AC) Style from Fighter and then take Dueling at level 4 Character when you are Fighter 1/Bard 3. After that it depend if you want more Fighting or more Spells. Remember if you go to Level 6 Bard you do not want to go past Level 4 Fighter (or the other way around if you take lots of Fighter) as Extra Attacks do not stack.

[LudicSavant]

Conceptually, "duelist" can mean an awful lot of things. Spell duels are a thing, for instance.

If you want to be a Bard that dabbles in hitting people, I would recommend a Swords, Valor, or Whispers Bard. The first two are the ones that people conventionally look at first when they think "Bard with a weapon," but Whispers Bard will actually grant you some great synergy with Booming Blade if you can pick it up (such as by a level 1 Hexblade dip that will make you Cha-SAD, or by being a SCAG-variant Half-Elf).

I actually kind of like this for the "Duelist" concept. Maybe it's just that L5R 1e was one of the first TTRPGs I really got into, but when I think of a duelist I think of the man or woman preparing for a single ceremonial fight, who seeks to end their opponent in a single clean, masterful strike. Possibly with them dying at the moment they sheathe their sword . And for that the BB Whispers Bard can actually do pretty well (right down to the possibility of them dying after your turn ends, from the rider).

A single-class Half-Elf Whispers Bard getting Advantage on a single attack (much easier than getting Advantage on all of your attacks, because something like a Familiar can do it) can do something like use Booming Blade + Psychic Blades + Elven Accuracy to dish out significant damage (with a high crit chance for all of those dice). They also keep their bonus action open, so they can throw on something like, I don't know, Banishing Smite and reliably take out a 150 hp creature in a single stroke (at higher levels). Not bad at all for a backup action for a full spellcaster (which also means you can make a fine spellduelist).

_______


Next build will probably be one of the following:

- A build I've taken to referring to as "the soulknife." A stealthy, unarmored frontliner Eldritch Knight / War Wizard build that's durable, sticky, high DPR, lots of utility, and about as gear-independent as it gets. They basically summon all of their armaments using abilities like Mage Armor and Shadow Blade. One of the upshots of using Mage Armor is that you can get the AC of plate while using a Dex build, and retain full stealth capabilities. Combines great with the "Shape Element" and Minor Illusion cantrips since they don't have Verbal components.

- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai, because I got asked about it earlier. A simple yet very reliable DPR core for any party that scales incredibly well with buffs/party synergy. I consider Samurai to be one of the Fighter subclasses with the highest potential (along with Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight), and the post would highlight why along with DPR analysis and the like.

- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build I'm currently playing in a long-term campaign (running from tier 1-4). Basically my take on the so-called "Nuclear Wizard" build which can potentially out-blast Sorlocks, come online faster, and retain all the versatility of being a Wizard. And doesn't require Coffeelocking or anything of that sort. The one I'm playing right now is an Asmodeus Tiefling, but the optimized version would probably be something else, like Yuan-Ti (for whom the Cha/Int typing is actually what you want for a change).

- A Shifter Inquisitor of the Silver Flame. A blaster/hunter Cleric from Eberron that brings a lot of damage and detection abilities.

If any of those sound interesting lemme know.

[Sparky McDibben]

Next build will probably be one of the following:

- A build I've taken to referring to as "the soulknife." A stealthy, unarmored frontliner Eldritch Knight / War Wizard build that's durable, sticky, high DPR, lots of utility, and about as gear-independent as it gets. They basically summon all of their armaments using abilities like Mage Armor and Shadow Blade. One of the upshots of using Mage Armor is that you can get the AC of plate while using a Dex build, and retain full stealth capabilities. Combines great with the "Shape Element" and Minor Illusion cantrips since they don't have Verbal components.

- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai, because I got asked about it earlier. A simple yet very reliable DPR core for any party that scales incredibly well with buffs/party synergy. I consider Samurai to be one of the Fighter subclasses with the highest potential (along with Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight), and the post would highlight why along with DPR analysis and the like.

- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build I'm currently playing in a long-term campaign (running from tier 1-4). Basically my take on the so-called "Nuclear Wizard" build which can potentially out-blast Sorlocks, come online faster, and retain all the versatility of being a Wizard. And doesn't require Coffeelocking or anything of that sort. The one I'm playing right now is an Asmodeus Tiefling, but the optimized version would probably be something else, like Yuan-Ti (for whom the Cha/Int typing is actually what you want for a change).

- A Shifter Inquisitor of the Silver Flame. A blaster/hunter Cleric from Eberron that brings a lot of damage and detection abilities.

If any of those sound interesting lemme know.

Literally all of these sound like a lot of fun, but I'm most interested in options 1 and 3.

[Zigludo]

Read page 164 a Rogue that multi-classes into Barbarian does not get armour only Shield and weapons. It is the only way to just get Shield use every other feat/class that gives shield also gives armour which overlaps with the starting proficiency.

Yeah. I only meant that you could instead start Barbarian, get the medium armor proficiency that way, and then multi-class into the Rogue. (This also nets you an extra two hit points.) The mountain dwarf synergy feels less like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to use medium armor," and more like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to start Rogue and pick up an extra skill, along with Dexterity/Intelligence saving throw proficiency instead of the Barbarian's Strength/Constitution saving throws." But it is a valid synergy.

Amusing but using Medium Armour makes your Draconic Resilience AC meaningless but you do get the extra hit points and resistance and it makes good use of your Battle Axe skill.

Indeed. For what it's worth, though, Sorcerers don't start at level 1 with scale mail; just the clothes on their back. So it does give you 3 extra AC until you can actually buy or find armor.

It's difficult to take advantage of all Mountain Dwarf features at the same time without encountering redundancies. The Strength Sorcerer is the only one I've found that uses them all: Strength, Constitution, Armor and Weapon Training. I recommended Draconic Bloodline because I think the 1 extra HP per level is more helpful to the melee game-plan than the features of any other subclass are. Most of them have nothing helpful for melee at all - Sorcerer was obviously not designed for melee combat. To minimize redundancy and maximize elegance, pick Divine Soul for Bless and its ability to add 2d4 to an attack roll once per rest.

This sounds great!

I want to see the total write up! LMAO

Well, it won't be much longer; there isn't much more to say. Gameplay is quite simple. You can't multiclass thanks to your dumped CHA, and it doesn't require any feats, so the build progression is pretty straightforward. If you're curious to see the guts of the build, I guess I could write up numerical comparisons for damage output and survivability vs optimized GWM / PAM fighters (spoiler: they compare favorably), and then list a couple of notes about the Elf/Half-Elf/V. Human compromises (basically, better casting for less melee damage / survivability).

[Lyracian]

Yeah. I only meant that you could instead start Barbarian, get the medium armor proficiency that way, and then multi-class into the Rogue. (This also nets you an extra two hit points.) The mountain dwarf synergy feels less like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to use medium armor," and more like "Mountain Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue gets to start Rogue and pick up an extra skill, along with Dexterity/Intelligence saving throw proficiency instead of the Barbarian's Strength/Constitution saving throws." But it is a valid synergy.

You are actually trading 4 HP for the Extra Skill by starting Rogue. I never tried to claim it was optimal only that it makes use of the Dwarven Medium Armour and Strength bonus. For actual play you might want to start with 17 Str and rush to Rogue 4 first to get the ASI then take Barbarian at Level 5? Final build would be Rogue 12/Barb 8.

Indeed. For what it's worth, though, Sorcerers don't start at level 1 with scale mail; just the clothes on their back. So it does give you 3 extra AC until you can actually buy or find armor.

I would assume with an unusual character plan you wold roll for starting cash 3d4 ~70-80 Gold; Scale and Battleaxe are 60 which leaves change.

I think your Dwarf has an AC 16 and gets to do D10 damage with two handed Battleaxe? Personally I would not let you twin Booming Blade; well you could Twin it but it would fail as you do not get a second Melee attack to activate it. Might work if you were duel-wielding. I think the Elf with Short Sword makes better use of the Draconic Armour and gets a higher overall AC once you pump Dex. Either way it is a cool idea.

- A Shadar-Kai Sharpshooter Samurai
- the Cha/Int blaster Wizard build
If any of those sound interesting lemme know.

Blaster Caster sounds interesting as does Samurai. Would be good if you added a variant/notes for those of us who only play PHB races.

[Zigludo]

You are actually trading 4 HP for the Extra Skill by starting Rogue.

It looks like it should be 4 extra HP, doesn't it? But actually it's 2. It threw me off too, I had to run the math myself to make sure.

EDIT: That is a Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Rogue has 15 hit points. A Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Barbarian has 17 hit points. Obviously at 1st level the difference is 4 hit points

I think your Dwarf has an AC 16 and gets to do D10 damage with two handed Battleaxe? Personally I would not let you twin Booming Blade; well you could Twin it but it would fail as you do not get a second Melee attack to activate it.

Feel free to run it that way at your table, but per RAW RAI and Sage Advice, it works. The attack with the melee weapon is a part of the spell, which then gets twinned into two attacks the same way Fire Bolt does.

I think the Elf with Short Sword makes better use of the Draconic Armour and gets a higher overall AC once you pump Dex. Either way it is a cool idea.

It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me

[Dilanio]

Your character concept was "a dueling master who is also an orator who tells the stories of his victories" which makes me ask why Ranger? Bard/Ranger would be to get Archery Fighting Style, Extra Attack at Level 5 and Swift Quiver spells with Magical Secrets. I would have thought Fighter or Rogue (Swashbuckler) would give you better fit for a Duelist.

I fully agree with your fighter / rogue observation. So why Ranger? This will be my second game and my first game was well incredibly dull for me as I was overshadowed by a couple Paladins who became the faces of our party as well as our primary combatants.

For my second game I wanted to go for a Ranger and be the scout for the party and originally I was going to Gloomstalker / Scout; and had a build and backstory worked out. Well we rolled our characters and a couple people wanted to be bards. I suggested an all bard party would be fun and the DM said if we all took one dip in bard we would get some boons for doing so. Not wanting to be the odd man out I agreed. My original class is the only one that doesn't really fit the bard build but I really had my heart set on a ranger build so I'm trying to make it work

[Klorox]

It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me

What’s the feat rule for weapon damage? I’m a little lost.

[Zigludo]

What’s the feat rule for weapon damage? I’m a little lost.

Sorry, I just meant that, in order to gain proficiency with a finesse weapon that deals higher damage (ideally a rapier), a Sea Elf or Shadar Kai would need to use the Weapon Master Feat, and that feats are an optional rule that not every table uses. (Or they could multiclass, but that's also an optional rule.) Otherwise they're stuck with daggers (d4). V. Humans can also just start with Weapon Master and get Rapiers that way.

High Elves get the shortsword without a feat, but I don't prefer that because they have lower constitution than Shadar Kai / Sea Elves, and the shortsword also does a bit less damage (d6) than the rapier (d8).

The mountain dwarf gets to use a battleaxe (d10 in both hands) right off the bat. (Also the mountain dwarf sticks to the Adventurer's League's PHB + 1 restriction. The only non-PHB content it needs is Booming Blade.)

[LudicSavant]

So just thought I'd leave some basic DPR benchmarks here, so that we can compare other builds to them later and offer a basic sense of scale. Unless otherwise noted all calculations are against a target with the "typical" AC for a monster of level = CR according to the DMG (so for example, if it's a level 20 build it's DPR vs AC 19), crit chance and the like are accounted for, and decimal results are rounded to the nearest tenth.

Note that there are a lot of calculations here, so hopefully I didn't have a typo anywhere. If I made a mistake somewhere, please correct me.

Basic Sorlock DPR Math
First, the Sorcerer/Hexblade's EB combo from "Boss Damage Combination at Max Level" from this guide. Note that the guide's calculation doesn't take into account variables like hit chance and the like. I did.
Round 1 (EB+HC): 45.1 DPR
Round 2 (EB+HC+Hex): 55.6 DPR
Round 3+ (EB*2+HC+Hex): 111.2 DPR
Average DPR if they get 3 full rounds of blasting the same target (and only in that case, because everything takes bonus actions to change targets, and you can't prebuff any of this): (45.1+55.6+111.2)/3 = 70.6 DPR

Note that the 70.6 DPR requires you be using 1/SR Hexblade's Curse, Hex, and 2 sorcery points and to be attacking the same target for 3 entire rounds... meaning you can't be killing them all that fast, and you can't switch to another target after they go down (at least, not without decreasing your DPR). If they go down on round 2, for example, you only contributed an average of ~50.4 DPR across those two rounds.

---

Basic GWM Champion DPR Math
Numbers are a Champion with 20 Strength, Great Weapon Master, Superior Critical, Great Weapon Fighting, and a greatsword. Note that this calculation includes everything, right down to the chance of getting a bonus action attack from Great Weapon Master.

At level 20 exactly:
4 attacks (resourceless DPR): 47.4 DPR
4 attacks (Advantage on all attacks): 81.5 DPR
8 attacks (Action Surge): 92.4 DPR
8 attacks (Advantage Action Surge): 153.9 DPR

It's noteworthy that Fighters get a big DPR jump at exactly level 20, so it's often more helpful to know their DPR before they get that fourth attack. So for example, here's the numbers for level 19:

At level 19:
3 attacks (resourceless DPR): 35.8 DPR
w/ Advantage: 62.5 DPR
Action Surge (Nova DPR): 70.1 DPR
w/ Advantage: 118.3 DPR

---

Bloodcloud's Eldritch Blast Knight:
Based on the build posted here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...3&postcount=90

At level 17+
Listed "at will" combo: 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
Listed "nova" combo: 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage

---

Basic GWM Bear-barian
Entering rage with bonus action and using Reckless Attack for Advantage, Brutal Criticals, Great Weapon Master, and a greataxe (since it actually does a little better DPR than greatsword due to Brutal Criticals)

At level 19: 37.7 DPR (41.2 if rage is already activated and so they get an extra bonus action attack on crit)
At exactly level 20 (w/capstone): 46.3 DPR (50.6 if rage is already activated and so they get an extra bonus action attack on crit)

---

Ancestral Nightmare
Build posted here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=103

All figures using Reckless Attack (or otherwise getting Advantage) vs AC 19

SnB Rage Only: 34.5 DPR, 48.5 w/ Vengeful Ancestors (plus 14 damage reduction and Resistance for ally on top of that)
SnB Nova: 86.9 DPR / 100.9 w/ VA
SnB Nova w/ Commander's Strike (sample ally is generic subclassless Rogue 20): 114.8 DPR / 128.8 w/ VA
GWM variant: 112.3 DPR / 126.3 w/ VA

Note: The build has Lucky, but these formulas aren't using the Lucky rerolls for its DPR calcs.

Anydice Formula: https://anydice.com/program/15c00

---

Might edit in more calcs later.

[Lyracian]

originally I was going to Gloomstalker / Scout; and had a build and backstory worked out.
My original class is the only one that doesn't really fit the bard build but I really had my heart set on a ranger build so I'm trying to make it work

I would go with Human and take the Gloom Stalker route. Aim to finish as Bard (Swords) 8/Gloom 4. That gives you 3 ASI.
If you start with Bard 1/ Ranger 2 you get the Fighting Style. Level 6 Swords gives you extra Attack and the four levels of Ranger give you two spell levels so your spell slots are the same as a tenth level single class caster character.

It looks like it should be 4 extra HP, isn't it? But actually it's 2. It threw me off too, I had to run the math myself to make sure.
EDIT: That is a Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Rogue has 15 hit points. A Rogue1/Barbarian1 with 10 Constitution who started Barbarian has 17 hit points. Obviously at 1st level the difference is 4 hit points

There you go doing more work on my build idea than I have! Was just looking at the Hit Dice without thinking how it went leveled up. 2 HP for a Skill makes it seem even better now. I might even spend a bit of time and write this up.

Feel free to run it that way at your table, but per RAW RAI and Sage Advice, it works. The attack with the melee weapon is a part of the spell, which then gets twinned into two attacks the same way Fire Bolt does.

RAI is opinion and I do not want to derail this excellent threat with an argument about RAW. If you want to link a Sage Advice I will read it but I would not allow this to work in any game I ran.

It has upsides. Since it uses Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, it is less MAD than the Mountain Dwarf version and can afford to put points into Charisma instead. Best with Shadar Kai or Sea Elf for that nice Constitution point. But the Mountain Dwarf version is quite a bit stronger early, gains a bonus point for not being dependent on the feat rule for weapon damage (which is optional), and is a lot more unorthodox / entertaining to me

I prefer my characters to be a little bit more well rounded so not sure I could bring myself to play this as an Elf or a Dwarf but I do prefer the Elf as they have other options. I like to be reasonably optimised with character but I am not worried about the 2 point average damage different between the Short Sword and Battleaxe when I can get so much more out the the character for such a small change. I do not have the other source books so do not know anything about the other races you list.

[Zene]

Your thoughts on builds are fantastic, thanks so much for sharing them!

I’d love to see the Int/Cha wizard blaster build you mentioned.

[Zigludo]

RAI is opinion and I do not want to derail this excellent threat with an argument about RAW. If you want to link a Sage Advice I will read it but I would not allow this to work in any game I ran.

Of course not, neither do I. I just mean I wouldn't want to write up a build if I wasn't certain it was legal. I'll leave it at Sage Advice. The first link I've provided confirms that it works per "rules as Sage Advice", the second two are just helpful for those reading who aren't sure how to adjudicate it in their own game.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/12/22...booming-blade/
[Crawford says: "yes, TS works". Although he says so in his characteristic evasive Crawford-y way.]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/08/11...k-roll-or-two/
[Mearls: Roll two attack rolls for Twinned Spells that include an attack roll.]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/22...-melee-attack/
[Crawford: The melee weapon attack is included in the effects of the spell.]

EDIT: Then again the melee Sorcerer builds are mostly dependent on Quickening Booming Blade, not Twinning it, so this is something of a side issue.

[koeuji]

Relatively new DnD player and these single class build write-ups have been really helpful and informative. Would love to see more of these, especially the Shadarkai samurai build.

Also, what would be a recommended spell list for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard? Are there any must-have spells or would the generic wizard build spell lists be fine?

[Klorox]

Good question! It's true; raising your Dex above 14 doesn't raise your AC any further. However the choice is indeed intentional.

The reason I take it anyways is because I value Initiative (the higher the challenge level of the table, the more important it is), Dex saves, dex skills, and the occasional extra Dex-based attack at low levels, and because the +1 Dex from Moderately Armored makes it convenient. It's kinda similar to the reason why I don't like to dump Dexterity even on Strength builds; the stat is good even if you're not getting AC from it. You can easily drop it from 16 to 14 if you like (as I note in "variants" for the Iron Wizard), and spend the points somewhere else. But extra points in Dexterity are by no means wasted IMHO; it's not like investing in, say, Strength instead would have gotten you an AC bonus either.

Contrast this possible statline for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard:
8/15/17/16/8/8

With this one:
8/14/17/16/10/8

Or this one:
8/13/17/16/10/10

All of those have the same point buy cost. #3 will make you extra vulnerable in levels 1-3 (with a weaker resourceless attack and AC). #2 is basically just exchanging +2 Dex for +2 Wis. All are viable, so you can decide between boosting Dex, Str, Wis, or Cha for character concept reasons. All of the above will basically just grant skills and saves (and init in Dex's case). And if you're starting above level 4, option 3 becomes a bit more attractive than it otherwise would be. But if not, I'm not fond of #3 because levels 1-3 are where Wizards are the least godlike.

I also wanted to add another option for stats:

9/13/15/16/14/8

This will eventually result in:

9/14/16/20/14/8

Your most important saves are CON, DEX and WIS. You’re proficient in two out of the three.

That being said, perhaps the best array is:

8/15/17/16/8/8

Eventually becoming:

8/16/18/20/8/8

I just like the more even stats across the board.

I’m not sure if I’d actually play this build, but I do like it.

My fear is I’d be staring at that 16 INT until level 11, which is too long.

Focusing on AC is something you really don’t *need* to do as a wizard (it is nice though).

[Bloodcloud]

I've posted him a few times already, but this sounds like a good place to re-post:

The Eldritch Blast Knight

VHuman fighter (eldritch Knight) 7 Warlock (Infernal/Tome) 13

An unconventional gish build. Switch seemlessly from long range to melee range, push your enemies around into hazards or away from your squishies. With quick access to 3rd level slots, you get access to a good range of spells for decent area attacks (fireball) or control (Hunger of hadar) or movement (misty step/fly), even maybe counterspelling depending on your need. Action surge at level 7 gives you some nova potential, and hex with a great concentration check makes for some very decent sustained damage potential. Heavy armor and shield, coupled with thp on kil;s and decent hit dice, means you are not going down easy and can tank with the best of them. Access to all ritual spells and a familiar make you usefull outside of combat, and a high charisma score means you can be a decent party face.

Stats
15 Str /10 Dex /14 Con /8 Int / 10 Wis / Cha 16


Overview:
Lvl 1: Vhuman Fighter 1 (feat: crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (Fiend) (Tome) Pick up Eldritch blast with repelling and Agonizing blast, grab Booming blade and Shillelagh cantrip. Grab Warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: Fighter (Eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: You are Fighter 1 Warlock 4.
You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, 21 AC with plate and 40 HP. On a kill you get 7 thp, and bonus action heal for 1d10+1 means you are fairly self sufficient for HP and can take tanking duty.
You cast Eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, for a very stable 2d10 +6 damage per turn. The cool feature here is you can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. Being in melee makes controlling the angle of the pushing quite easy, and adds a tactical layer regular fighters don't have.
You have proficiency in concentration (so +5) and advantage on those check, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots, so that Hex can last 8 hour.
You have two 2nd level spell slot which recharge on a short rest.
For attack of opportunity, Booming blade delivered through you shillelagh is the key (2d8+3 and another 2d8 from the secondary). Pre-cast shillelagh anytime you think a fight might break out in the next minute, as you've got competition for that bonus action with Hex.
You might also burn a slot on Hellish rebuke if you fancy it.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh.

At level 11:
You are Warlock 5 Fighter 6.
Your Charisma is now maxed.
Your AC is still at least 21, and you got Shield 3 first level slot per day to raise it to 26 when needed (or to cast Absorb elements). HP is at a respectable 87, with THP on kills of 10. You can heal 1d10 + 6 as a bonus action. You can take tanking duty no problem.

Eldritch blast is now at 3d10 + 15, which is pretty great at-will damage with a push rider of 10 feet per attack. With Hex, 3d10 + 15 + 3d6. But you also have Action surge and up to 8 hour of Hex with a single cast. So you got a once a short rest nova of 6d10+30+6d6 with 60 feet of potential pushing. That is pretty brutal and useable both in melee and at range.

Your fifth warlock level came with an extra invocation, so you need to choose: Devil sight opens the Darkness shenanigan, Book of ancient secrets gives you access to nearly all rituals in the game (including a familiar), or at-will silent image or disguise self... you decide, but you've got quite a few choice, depending on your party to open up your usefulness.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, protection from evil and good.
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slots and War magic. Why? To use your staff to attack the enemy once more after casting eldritch blast, and trigger Hex one more time! So now, your at-will damage is 3d10+15 +1d8 +5 (with shillelagh active). You do have a bit of competition for bonus action, so it,s not gonna come toghether perfectly all the time.

At level 18
You are Warlock 11 Fighter 7.
On top of all the above, if you now have your fourth blast, so the fighter is jealous he's got less attack than you.

You have 3 level 5 spell slot that recharge on a short rest, 4 level 1 slot and 2 level 2 slots on long rest, and a 6th level spel with your Mystic arcanum. The ranger, paladin and eldritch knight are super jealous at your spellpower, and your at-will damage (4d10+20 + 1d8+5) is more than a match to theirs, and your short rest nova (8d10+40 + 8d6) is nothing to sneeze at. Hex is now 24 hours long.

5 invocations gives you some versatility.

Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Shadow of Moil, Firewall, Hold monster, Synaptic Static, Soul cage (Arcanum)
From Eldritch knight: Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, Protection from evil and good, Darkness
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message, Chill touch

On your next two level, you get a 7th level spell

[Klorox]

I like it!

What’s EK 7 give the build?

[Bloodcloud]

I like it!

What’s EK 7 give the build?

War magic, to combine with eldritch blast, an additionnal first level spell slot and 2 2nd level spell slot, and a spell known.

[LudicSavant]

I've posted him a few times already, but this souns like a good place to re-post:

The Eldritch Blast Knight

VHuman fighter (eldritch Knight) 7 Warlock (Infernal/Tome) 13

An unconventional gish build. Switch seemlessly from long range to melee range, push your enemies around into hazards or away from your squishies. With quick access to 3rd level slots, you get access to a good range of spells for decent area attacks (fireball) or control (Hunger of hadar) or movement (misty step/fly), even maybe counterspelling depending on your need. Action surge at level 7 gives you some nova potential, and hex with a great concentration check makes for some very decent sustained damage potential. Heavy armor and shield, coupled with thp on kil;s and decent hit dice, means you are not going down easy and can tank with the best of them. Access to all ritual spells and a familiar make you usefull outside of combat, and a high charisma score means you can be a decent party face.

Stats
15 Str /10 Dex /14 Con /8 Int / 10 Wis / Cha 16


Overview:
Lvl 1: Vhuman Fighter 1 (feat: crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (Fiend) (Tome) Pick up Eldritch blast with repelling and Agonizing blast, grab Booming blade and Shillelagh cantrip. Grab Warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: Fighter (Eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: You are Fighter 1 Warlock 4.
You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, 21 AC with plate and 40 HP. On a kill you get 7 thp, and bonus action heal for 1d10+1 means you are fairly self sufficient for HP and can take tanking duty.
You cast Eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, for a very stable 2d10 +6 damage per turn. The cool feature here is you can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. Being in melee makes controlling the angle of the pushing quite easy, and adds a tactical layer regular fighters don't have.
You have proficiency in concentration (so +5) and advantage on those check, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots, so that Hex can last 8 hour.
You have two 2nd level spell slot which recharge on a short rest.
For attack of opportunity, Booming blade delivered through you shillelagh is the key (2d8+3 and another 2d8 from the secondary). Pre-cast shillelagh anytime you think a fight might break out in the next minute, as you've got competition for that bonus action with Hex.
You might also burn a slot on Hellish rebuke if you fancy it.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh.

At level 11:
You are Warlock 5 Fighter 6.
Your Charisma is now maxed.
Your AC is still at least 21, and you got Shield 3 first level slot per day to raise it to 26 when needed (or to cast Absorb elements). HP is at a respectable 87, with THP on kills of 10. You can heal 1d10 + 6 as a bonus action. You can take tanking duty no problem.

Eldritch blast is now at 3d10 + 15, which is pretty great at-will damage with a push rider of 10 feet per attack. With Hex, 3d10 + 15 + 3d6. But you also have Action surge and up to 8 hour of Hex with a single cast. So you got a once a short rest nova of 6d10+30+6d6 with 60 feet of potential pushing. That is pretty brutal and useable both in melee and at range.

Your fifth warlock level came with an extra invocation, so you need to choose: Devil sight opens the Darkness shenanigan, Book of ancient secrets gives you access to nearly all rituals in the game (including a familiar), or at-will silent image or disguise self... you decide, but you've got quite a few choice, depending on your party to open up your usefulness.
Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, protection from evil and good.
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slots and War magic. Why? To use your staff to attack the enemy once more after casting eldritch blast, and trigger Hex one more time! So now, your at-will damage is 3d10+15 +1d8 +5 (with shillelagh active). You do have a bit of competition for bonus action, so it,s not gonna come toghether perfectly all the time.

At level 18
You are Warlock 11 Fighter 7.
On top of all the above, if you now have your fourth blast, so the fighter is jealous he's got less attack than you.

You have 3 level 5 spell slot that recharge on a short rest, 4 level 1 slot and 2 level 2 slots on long rest, and a 6th level spel with your Mystic arcanum. The ranger, paladin and eldritch knight are super jealous at your spellpower, and your at-will damage (4d10+20 + 1d8+5) is more than a match to theirs, and your short rest nova (8d10+40 + 8d6) is nothing to sneeze at. Hex is now 24 hours long.

5 invocations gives you some versatility.

Sample spell list: Hex, Hellish rebuke, Armor of aghatys, Misty step, Fireball, Counterspell, Fly, Shadow of Moil, Firewall, Hold monster, Synaptic Static, Soul cage (Arcanum)
From Eldritch knight: Shield, Absorb element, Magic missile, Protection from evil and good, Darkness
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Shillelagh, Mage Hand, Message, Chill touch

On your next two level, you get a 7th level spell

Thanks for posting this.

Looks like DPR after hit chance / etc (using the same standards as post #81) would be... lessee...

The stated "at-will" combo would be 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
The stated "nova" combo would be 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage)

Does that look about right?

[Bloodcloud]

Thanks for posting this.

Looks like DPR after hit chance / etc (using the same standards as post #81) would be... lessee...

The stated "at-will" combo would be 34.8 DPR vs AC 19 (47.8 w/ Advantage)
The stated "nova" combo would be 76.4 DPR vs AC 19 (105.3 w/ Advantage)

Does that look about right?

I think so? Haven’t calculated fully. Just looked at tue raw number compared to benchmark (like snb eldritch knight, gwm paladin, bladesinger)

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I was actually just theory crafting a melee Celestial Tomelock and was surprised to see such a thing as your first build.

If you were to lean more into melee than ranged, though (I don't want to pick up EB at all, I already have two SS Archer types and the style is too similar) how would you adjust it? I was considering grabbing Mobile, Warcaster, and polearm Master to be able to get in, hit them, then get out and hit them again if they approach, all probably with booming blade or green flame blade damage.

Alternatively, was considering a dip into life cleric for armor, a couple slots, and powered up heals. Divine Sorcerer was an option too, for potential doubled up attacks even before opportunity attacks.

Probably a build that would work better as a Divine Soul 3/Hexblade X Pact of the Tome, but I was trying to lean a bit into the healer aspect and get something extra out of fire/radiant damage.

I'm just trying to build away from the Hexblade Pact of the Blade rut.

[Tallytrev813]

Saving for future

[LudicSavant]

Relatively new DnD player and these single class build write-ups have been really helpful and informative. Would love to see more of these, especially the Shadarkai samurai build.

Also, what would be a recommended spell list for the Hobgoblin Iron Wizard? Are there any must-have spells or would the generic wizard build spell lists be fine?

Pretty much anything that's good for a typical control Wizard is good for the IW. Things like Sleet Storm, Silent Image, and the like. Spells from the Abjuration school are a bit more useful than normal, as noted in the spoiler block. But overall Abjurers don't massively change up which spells are ideal the way that, say, an Evoker does.

If I had to name some "must-haves" it'd be...

- Shield, Absorb Elements, Globe of Invulnerability, Alarm, Banishment, Counterspell and Protection from Evil are all fantastic Abjuration spells that you can easily afford to add to your spellbook thanks to Abjuration Savant. They would all be worth casting on their own, but provide extra benefits when used by Abjurers (such as recharging your ward).
- The action economy / resource efficiency spells. Things like Find Familiar, Contingency, Simulacrum, etc.
- Misty Step.
- I strongly recommend picking up a bunch of rituals and using them liberally. Unseen Servant, Phantom Steed, Comprehend Languages, Water Breathing, etc. Remember that you can cast rituals while moving (e.g. the party does not need to take a ten minute break) and that they don't take up preparation slots. You can just always have an Unseen Servant following you around, or the like. And while you might not need to breathe water all the time, come on, it lasts 24 hours and affects the whole party. Learning the spell basically means "the whole party now has the ability to breathe underwater, forever."

When it comes to team buff spells, this is always going to be party-composition dependent. You need to look at your party members' builds and figure out what spells benefit them the most.