An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

[Wraith]

Do you play the build with Shield and Mace like all priest ? or what will be your starting weapon choice.

If you specifically DID want to follow the example in the picture and use the Shillelagh spell to make your weapon look like a ghostly scythe, then you have to use either a wooden club or a quarterstaff as your main, as that's required by the spell. You could always take a shield and wield the quarterstaff one-handed if you wanted - it does slightly less damage that way, but you can just drop the shield and use both hands very quickly.

Alternatively, like the build suggests, you don't have to take Shillelagh and can use other spells, in which case your choice of weapon doesn't matter so much, but that's up to you.

And it's possible to play it with a 2h weapon in place of the shield+mace like the picture ? Or i will be to low in AC for melee fight? . I know that is not normaly a starting weapon for priest but i can check with my dm if it's possible or not. Or maybe ask him if i can use a Quarterstaff who look like a scyth.

If you wanted to use a two handed weapon, you would probably start the game with Scalemail armour (unless your DM gives you something else) along with +2 from your DEX bonus of about AC16. That's quite reasonable, and you can improve it immediately with spells like Shield of Faith or an equivalent like Protection From Evil & Good.

Probably the best thing to do is find out what the rest of your group want to play as. If they're all soft squishy characters who wear little or no armour, it might be better for you to really focus on taking a shield and looking after them; if they're all playing Fighters and Paladin though, they're probably tough enough that you can forgo a bit of armour and instead take a bigger weapon.

[Hairfish]

Do you play the build with Shield and Mace like all priest ? or what will be your starting weapon choice.

And it's possible to play it with a 2h weapon in place of the shield+mace like the picture ? Or i will be to low in AC for melee fight? . I know that is not normaly a starting weapon for priest but i can check with my dm if it's possible or not. Or maybe ask him if i can use a Quarterstaff who look like a scyth.


Thanks for the reply :)

The Shillelagh spell enhances a club or quarterstaff into a 1d8 magical weapon that can use WIS instead of STR for attack and damage rolls. There is no mechanical benefit to wielding it 2-handed.

Forgoing the shield means you would take (on average) about 27% more damage from an enemy who had +5 to hit. If they also applied an on-hit effect of some sort, you'd have to deal with that 29% more often.

[Drcitron]

Thanks for your reply, so i think i will do the following :

- Staying with quarterstaff/shield at start and see with my DM if i can have one who look like a scythe
- and checking if i can later switch on a 2h style maybe later if the composition of the group permit this.

If i dont go Shillelagh is Thorns and Absorb Elements always worth taking the feat for this or just switch for Resilliant at lvl4 or maybe the Heavly Armor one for gaining the AC by the armor if i drop the shield ?

Sorry for all this questions, i start at D&D and try to understand de gamebetter ^^

[Hairfish]

Shields (or anything else that adds AC) get more effective the more AC you already have.

Wielding your weapon two-handed "later on" makes even less sense, as the opposition gets tougher.

If it's super important to you to make your character exactly match the picture, that's up to you. But there's never a gameplay benefit to losing the shield, always a penalty.

[Quietus]

Thanks for your reply, so i think i will do the following :

- Staying with quarterstaff/shield at start and see with my DM if i can have one who look like a scythe
- and checking if i can later switch on a 2h style maybe later if the composition of the group permit this.

If i dont go Shillelagh is Thorns and Absorb Elements always worth taking the feat for this or just switch for Resilliant at lvl4 or maybe the Heavly Armor one for gaining the AC by the armor if i drop the shield ?

Sorry for all this questions, i start at D&D and try to understand de gamebetter ^^

Just make the Shillelagh the blade. Normally when you carry it around, it's a general purpose quarterstaff. When you cast Shillelagh, the spell adds a flickering, translucent blade of energy, turning it into a scythe. Lightsaber noises optional.

[Wildstag]

So this is a build I've been trying to play but it requires a DM that is willing to use Unearthed Arcana, and a specific one at that. I don't know how to edit it into the standard "THIS IS MY BUILD" format, so I'll leave it with the explanation and levels that matter. When I'm not at work, I'll edit it to look better.

This build is MAD as heck, especially depending on how you want to play. If you want to play with a sword or spear, it's MAD. If you don't mind Shillelagh, it's alright. I like to call it the "Scorpion Build", because of the trademark "GET OVER HERE" line it allows you to mimic. At its core, it is a multiclass and a controller; it almost works like the 4e Warden. The breakdown is as follows.

Race: Half-Elf or V-Human (the latter works better, I just don't like it as much)
Ability Scores: Wisdom is the most important. Either Dexterity or Strength are your secondary priorities, with Intelligence and Charisma (must be 13) following. Don't focus on Constitution, but probably also don't dump it. The attack stat you don't need and can fall off to the wayside.
Class Levels In Order: Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 1 / Fighter 7 (after that it doesn't matter much)
Subclasses: Eldritch Knight / Sea Sorcery
Feats: Magic Initiate (Druid), Sentinel
Magic Initiate Spells: Thorn Whip, Shillelagh, and 1 first level spell of your choice.

Levels 1-3 (if V-Human)
As a human, take your bonuses in Wisdom and your primary physical stat. If you want heavy armor, go Strength. If you want to be unarmored, go Dexterity. Wisdom should be as high as possible though. Take Magic Initiate (Druid) and choose Thorn Whip. Shillelagh works if you want to focus exclusively on Wisdom moving forward. If you want Strength or Dexterity to matter the most, take a separate cantrip.

At level 1 take a Fighter level for the better hit points. With Thorn Whip and a one-handed weapon you can pull people to you and keep them off the back lines. If you started with a 16 in Wisdom, it'll be hard for Thorn Whip to miss.

At level 2, take a level in Sea Sorcery. What matters most is the ability to curse a foe with a cantrip. I lied in the last sentence, what matters most is the fact that the feature doesn't specify Sorcerer spells. ACTUALLY the most important part of the level in Sorcerer is the Forced Movement curse. Every time a spell forces an opponent to move, you can add an additional 15 feet to the forced movement. Thorn Whip has a reach of 30 feet and and pulls the target 10 feet if the target is Large or Smaller. This means that every time you hit with Thorn Whip, you can activate the curse and pull the foe 25 feet towards you.

At level 3, return to Fighter. You'll need to use Action Surge if you want to hit twice in one turn for now.

Levels 4-8 (if V-Human)

At level 4, you get your choice of subclass. Choose Eldritch Knight because it's the best. Also choose it because it is the gish one, and you're already a gish. Pick your spells, it doesn't really matter, you'll be buffing yourself with them.

At level 5, you can take your first class ASI. For this one, you'll want to take Sentinel. Now when people are pulled to you, they can't move away from you. You're sticky, and that's just the way you like it.

At level 6, you get Extra Attack, which can be useful when using Action Surge. For the time being, it's just a dead-ish level for you, or a tool for when you don't want to be casting.

At level 7, you get your second Fighter ASI. Use it for stats. If you took Shillelagh as your second cantrip, then you'll want to improve Wisdom by 2 for an even higher attack roll and damage roll modifier.

At level 8 you have reached the apex of this class. When you pull people with your cursed whip, you can use your bonus action to attack them. It seems like a weak apex, but I love it. You pull people to you and keep them there. You also get second-level spells, which is fun.

Alternative: If you are Half-Elf, you get more points for other ability scores overall. The +2 charisma means you can spread point buy around in a better way and punishes you less for being MAD. However, you have to wait until level 5 to get Thorn Whip and level 7 to get Sentinel. It sucks, but it's the price you pay for having a cooler race.

P.S. You can kinda build this without the UA, it just means that you have to position yourself before the Thorn Whip is cast so that you're in melee range for your War Magic feature.

P.P.S. Additionally, consider taking levels in Rogue (Swashbuckler) if you're focusing on Dexterity and Wisdom. With that option, you can forgo Shillelagh for a secondary Druid cantrip. It'd work better with Half-Elf, but you'd probably want an eighth level in EK for the extra ASI before multiclassing a second time. As you progress though, you'd eventually end up with 11 levels in Swashbuckler for a middling sneak attack. You can guarantee a Sneak Attack and get high damage doing it. You'd get less mileage out of Fancy Footwork unless you use a Whip, which could be pretty fun, but then you have two whips and you're less like Scorpion.

P.P.P.S. I swear this is the last one, but if you want additional homebrew, you could talk to your GM about using the DMG's "Changing Spell Lists" option. With this, you could change the spell-casting class (and maybe schools) from Eldritch Knight to Druid. In this way, you wouldn't need the extra feat to get the spells you need to pull off the build. It makes both the Half-Elf and the V-Human able to pull off the stickiness of the build at level 4. It can also help the build to be less MAD. Just something to think about.

[Drcitron]

Just make the Shillelagh the blade. Normally when you carry it around, it's a general purpose quarterstaff. When you cast Shillelagh, the spell adds a flickering, translucent blade of energy, turning it into a scythe. Lightsaber noises optional.

I like this idea i will go with this, so it will be more simple for me.

Re: An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds
Shields (or anything else that adds AC) get more effective the more AC you already have.

Wielding your weapon two-handed "later on" makes even less sense, as the opposition gets tougher.

If it's super important to you to make your character exactly match the picture, that's up to you. But there's never a gameplay benefit to losing the shield, always a penalty.

I see, so i will keep my shield and use a quarterstaff for main hand weapon

Thank's for all your reply !

[Wraith]

I like to call it the "Scorpion Build", because of the trademark "GET OVER HERE" line it allows you to mimic. At its core, it is a multiclass and a controller

Strange coincidence; I was thinking of more or less exactly the same sort of Sea Sorcerer/Controller build only the other day

My build, however, was more like Sea Sorcerer 1 / Warlock 2 so that I could pick up Eldritch Blast and the Eldritch Innovations Grasp of Hadar and Repelling Blast right away; Between them I could Push or Pull an enemy a large distance as necessary, not just pull. It's also got much better range than Thorn Whip and, when you level up a little, multiple Blasts means multiple moves for extra effect.

Nice call on the Eldritch Knight for War Magic, though. Seems obvious, but it had completely slipped my mind.

[Wildstag]

Strange coincidence; I was thinking of more or less exactly the same sort of Sea Sorcerer/Controller build only the other day

My build, however, was more like Sea Sorcerer 1 / Warlock 1 so that I could pick up Eldritch Blast and the Eldritch Innovations Grasp of Hadar and Repelling Blast right away; Between them I could Push or Pull an enemy a large distance as necessary, not just pull. It's also got much better range than Thorn Whip and, when you level up a little, multiple Blasts means multiple moves for extra effect.

Nice call on the Eldritch Knight for War Magic, though. Seems obvious, but it had completely slipped my mind.

Sea Sorcery lends itself to map control builds, I just tend to play martials and gish, so I think of builds that aid that job. Warden was my favorite 4e class, and this kinda gives off that feel while emulating the job of "protector through stickiness". Your path seems more like a full-caster route, which is cool too, just not my cup of tea.

Ostensibly a Bard could do most of this without Magic Initiate, but then you'd have to wait until level 15 to even do it, so it's an option but for so late in the game noone really reaches it. Level 14 is the earliest if you go Bard/Sorcerer/Fighter. I don't know of other classes that get War Magic though.

[Wraith]

I don't know of other classes that get War Magic though.

War Magic is unique to Eldritch Knight 6, so you'd have to find another way. There's one alternative that I can think of from the top of my, though:

Race: V.Human
Class: Sea Sorcerer 1 / Druid 1
Feat: Polearm Master

Wield a quarterstaff and take Thorn Whip as a cantrip, pull an enemy to you from ~25 feet away, and then Attack of Opportunity when they get close enough. Normally forced movement doesn't cause an AoO, but Polearm Master specifically states "when [the target] enters your reach", and when specific clashes with general then it seems to work.

Otherwise? Sea Sorcerer 1 / Druid 1 / Fighter 2 and burn an Action Surge to cast and then attack immediately, I guess?

[Wildstag]

War Magic is unique to Eldritch Knight 6, so you'd have to find another way. There's one alternative that I can think of from the top of my, though:

Race: V.Human
Class: Sea Sorcerer 1 / Druid 1
Feat: Polearm Master

Wield a quarterstaff and take Thorn Whip as a cantrip, pull an enemy to you from ~25 feet away, and then Attack of Opportunity when they get close enough. Normally forced movement doesn't cause an AoO, but Polearm Master specifically states "when [the target] enters your reach", and when specific clashes with general then it seems to work.

Otherwise? Sea Sorcerer 1 / Druid 1 / Fighter 2 and burn an Action Surge to cast and then attack immediately, I guess?

Bards get Battle Magic, which is effectively the same but comes at level 14 of the Valor Bard kit. Otherwise, EK is the only way to do it.

Edit: Also do not that with Sea Sorcery you only get the bonus forced movement once per turn. Multiple blasts doesn't mean additional bursts of 15 feet of movement, you only get it the once.

[8wGremlin]

Race: Half-Elf or V-Human (the latter works better, I just don't like it as much)
Ability Scores: Wisdom is the most important. Either Dexterity or Strength are your secondary priorities, with Intelligence and Charisma (must be 13) following. Don't focus on Constitution, but probably also don't dump it. The attack stat you don't need and can fall off to the wayside.
Class Levels In Order: Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 1 / Fighter 7 (after that it doesn't matter much)
Subclasses: Eldritch Knight / Sea Sorcery
Feats: Magic Initiate (Druid), Sentinel
Magic Initiate Spells: Thorn Whip, Shillelagh, and 1 first level spell of your choice..

using Tasha's you have access to the feat

You’ve learned some of an artificer’s inventiveness:

1. You learn one cantrip of your choice from the artificer spell list, and you learn one 1st-level spell of your choice from that list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
2. You can cast this feat’s 1st-level spell without a spell slot, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again. You can also cast the spell using any spell slots you have.
3. You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.

Artificers have Thornwhip on their spell list.
it uses INT, thus reducing the need for such a High wisdom.
You're casting implement can be a spoon (cooking utensils - artisan tool)

[Wildstag]

using Tasha's you have access to the feat
Artificers have Thornwhip on their spell list.
it uses INT, thus reducing the need for such a High wisdom.
You're casting implement can be a spoon (cooking utensils - artisan tool)

Ah, fair, this was a pre-Tasha's build. It would make you less MAD, but even then I'd still invest in Wisdom. The spells that target Wisdom saving throws are more dangerous in my opinion than the ones that target Intelligence. And you don't really need a high Intelligence for the build anyways since you'll be taking Wizard spells that don't rely on attack rolls or DCs.

Still, if you would prefer to have the versatility of being able to use DC, attack roll, and utility spells from the Eldritch Knight options, the feat you suggest would be a good alternative. It's a lateral refinement, I'd say.

Could still start with a Str14/Dex10/Con12/Int16/Wis10/Cha13 as V-Human. As a Half-Elf, we can adjust that to Str14/Dex10/Con12/Int16/Wis12/Cha13 and still have a bonus to those troubling Wisdom saves.

Thanks for the tip!

[Wraith]

Edit: Also do note that with Sea Sorcery you only get the bonus forced movement once per turn. Multiple blasts doesn't mean additional bursts of 15 feet of movement, you only get it the once.

I know, but for the specific purpose of moving targets around, Sea Sorcerer 1 is still more efficient than 6 more levels of another class.

Eldritch Blast at level 5 is 2 blasts, 10ft each. With Sea Sorcerer, that's 10+10+15; that is greater distance than Eldritch Blast at level 11, which is only 10+10+10. It's a gimmick, sure, but you said that you preferred a Martial build so I was going for as small-a dip as possible to get the most efficient bonus to tack on to your Fighter/whatever

On top of that, Eldritch Blast has a range of 120ft while Thorn Whip is only 30ft, and uses d10's as opposed to d6's for damage. It's just a better spell all around even when you're not trying to pull off the Pull-and-Stab combo, I think.
The downside, I suppose, is that you'd need a two level dip for Warlock, or otherwise spend two feats on Magic Initiate (Warlock) and then on Eldritch Adept for Grasp of Hadar. That way might not be terrible however; since you're already multiclassed into Sorcerer then you don't need to be MAD for both WIS (gettting the best out of Druid Initiate) and CHA, since you already have the CHA focus?

Race: V.Human
Class: Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 1 /Fighter 6
Subclass: Sea Sorcerer / Eldritch Knight
Feats: Magic Initiate (Warlock: Eldritch Blast), Eldritch Adept (Grasp of Hadar), ((Sentinel or Polearm Master))

I think that's a decent alternative. The downside is that you trade an ASI for a feat, but on the other hand your combo has a greater ranger, does more damage, can pull an enemy to you from further away, and you can afford to dump WIS which can potentially make up for the ASI you missed - especially if you're point-buying your stats.

[Wildstag]

Once you focus on pushing away instead of yoinking someone next to you, you kinda lose the essence of the build though, hence it's name "Scorpion". It's a build to effectively play that character from Mortal Kombat. Sea Sorcery is the thing that makes the build complete, but it's not the ONLY thing that makes the build what it is. Yes, there are better ways to use Sea Sorcery for map control but those are different builds.

It'd probably be a fun build though.

P.S. After some thought overnight, I think the Artificer feat option is actually just overall an upgrade to the build, not just a lateral improvement. I'll probably edit the original post with a blurb about what it used to be. Thanks 8wgremlin!

[CMCC]

Race: V.Human
Class: Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 1 /Fighter 6
Subclass: Sea Sorcerer / Eldritch Knight
Feats: Magic Initiate (Warlock: Eldritch Blast), Eldritch Adept (Grasp of Hadar), ((Sentinel or Polearm Master))

How are you using grasp of hadar without any warlock levels?

[Jon talks a lot]

How are you using grasp of hadar without any warlock levels?

It's from the feat, I think. Am probably wrong though.

[x3n0n]

It's from the feat, I think. Am probably wrong though.

Just fleshing out the observation: even if you have Eldritch Blast from some other source, the Eldritch Adept feat specifically says that non-Warlocks can't take any invocation that has any prerequisite.

[Wraith]

Just fleshing out the observation: even if you have Eldritch Blast from some other source, the Eldritch Adept feat specifically says that non-Warlocks can't take any invocation that has any prerequisite.

Oof, I misread that as that if you weren't a Warlock you must still meet the pre-reqs, for some reason. Thanks for correcting me.

So like I suggested way up the thread, it works with Sorcerer 1/Warlock 2 then, which at least saves you from having to spend two feats and/or locking you into V.Human. Hexblade Pact for Armour of Agathys, Shield and Hexblade's Curse isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if if you're wanting to drag people up to you and deal a little bit more damage while also risking retaliation.

Or just completely lose the plot and go Sorc 1/Warlock 1 *and* spend a feat on Eldritch Adept, if you're desperate to keep your dip as small as possible for more Fighter levels. Can't say that's what I'd do, but I can see why someone might try it...

[Wildstag]

Oof, I misread that as that if you weren't a Warlock you must still meet the pre-reqs, for some reason. Thanks for correcting me.

So like I suggested way up the thread, it works with Sorcerer 1/Warlock 2 then, which at least saves you from having to spend two feats and/or locking you into V.Human. Hexblade Pact for Armour of Agathys, Shield and Hexblade's Curse isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if if you're wanting to drag people up to you and deal a little bit more damage while also risking retaliation.

Or just completely lose the plot and go Sorc 1/Warlock 1 *and* spend a feat on Eldritch Adept, if you're desperate to keep your dip as small as possible for more Fighter levels. Can't say that's what I'd do, but I can see why someone might try it...

My only issue with additional multiclass levels is that you delay the actual effect that makes the build work even longer. A build that takes until level 10 to actually start doing its thing is a bad build in my eyes, since most tables don't last long after level 13/14. Sorc1/Wlock2/Ftr7 delays the battle magic by two levels and is still just as MAD as the alternatives.

You'd still need as much Con, Str, Int, and Charisma. To use heavy armor you need a certain amount of strength, but if you invest further into Charisma you'd have to sacrifice Str or Con, and Con is too necessary. So far, the Artificer feat leaves the build the least MAD, since you don't need to invest in two different casting stats, just a 13 so you can MC into/out of Sorcerer. You can make do with Str/Int with token Con and Charisma.

Plus, Sorc1/Wlock2 saves you a feat but you end up with two feats at level 10; the Ftr8/Sorc1 build has three feats and gets the same effect in fewer levels.

Edit: The build idea is basically a tank that actually aggros well. By pulling foes to you and keeping them there, you're playing a necessary role. The fighter levels and a moderate Constitution are necessary to actually stay alive, since eventually your foes will stop running away from you and eliminate you first. Because with a weapon you WILL be having both hands full for implement and weapon, you need Strength as high as possible to get good AC. I just don't see how it's optimal to take Warlock levels in place of Fighter levels. You'd end up with lower AC, a later progression, and a lower HD (and thus lower hp cap).

[DevanAvalon]

Might look something like this:

Ye olde Sharpshooter Samurai gets a newfangled weapon.

The Modern Gun-Kata Master

Like the ancient kyujutsu master, but with a tanegashima.

Shadar-Kai Samurai 20
Starting Point Buy: 17 Dex, 14 or 16 Con, other stats to taste (example: 17 Dex / 14 Con / 14 Wis / 12 Cha / 10 Str / 8 Int)
ASIs: Sharpshooter, Elven Accuracy, Gunner, Piercer, Fey-Touched (+1 Wis, Hex), Skill Expert (+1 Wis, Athletics Expertise), Alert

This is basically a variant of the Ancient Kyujutsu Master build that takes advantage of the excellent synergy between Elven Accuracy, Samurai, and the new Tasha's feats (Gunner and Piercer). What makes that synergy so excellent, you ask?

It's because everything about Gunner and Piercer scales better with more attacks, more crit rate, and more accuracy... so basically everything the Samurai Sharpshooter does. They also synergize very well with each other, because both bullet points of Piercer scales well with a higher damage die size.

So let's talk about why these feats are so good.

Gunner vs Crossbow Expert
- Compared to a Hand Crossbow, a musket with Elven Accuracy is dealing about +3.5 average damage per attack (why +3.5 instead of +3? Because that die is multiplied on crits, and your crit rate is just that high). With Piercer, this advantage grows even further. And with a Samurai getting 3-9 attacks, that adds up quick.

- Gunner gives you the main reason I cared about Crossbow Expert in the previous build: Being able to fire unimpeded in melee range. This is not only good for ensuring that enemy melee foes can't muck you up, but also for allowing you to do take full advantage of prone or paralyzed foes.

- It's only half a feat! Which means you get to take it and Piercer for the same cost as Crossbow Expert and +2 Dex.

Piercer
- Piercer's first bullet point is mathematically really complex to give an exact figure for how much extra DPR it adds. Why's it so complex to calculate? Because of the element of player choice. If it you were rolling only one d12 damage die, it'd be very simple: Your average damage for that d12 goes from 6.5 to 8, for a gain of 1.5 damage. But you're not rolling only one d12 damage die, are you? You are rolling 3-9 attacks, and each attack has 1-3 damage dice (depending on whether you crit or not). Each time you have a below-average roll, you have to calculate the probability that one of your future rolls during the turn will be even lower in order to determine whether (from a standpoint of perfect optimization) you should reroll right now.

You can do that, but it's a complicated recursive algorithm that I won't get into just now (maybe later). The short version is that it's worth 1.5 average damage at a single d12 rolled, and approaches 5.5 average damage as the number of damage die rolls approaches infinity (where the chance of getting to reroll a 1 approaches 100%).

- Piercer's second bullet point is considerably simpler to calculate; it's the exact same formula as Brutal Criticals (see my DPR calculator). With a 14.2625% crit rate (from Elven Accuracy), you can think of it as 0.9270625 damage per attack (plus a little more, because of the synergy with the first bullet point).

- So (with Gunner and Elven Accuracy) about +1 damage per attack, plus somewhere between 1.5 and 5.5 damage per turn on top of that (depending on your accuracy, number of attacks, etc).

- It, too, is but half a feat. Between this and Piercer, you're basically getting the damage of Crossbow Expert's bonus action... without using a bonus action. Which gives us more space for things like Shadar-Kai teleportation, Misty Step, Hex, Second Wind, whatever.

___

There is one hiccup I have with this, and that's the fact that the fact that at 8-11, the original build will be ahead on Dexterity (with 20 instead of 19). But at every point after that it's a fairly considerable damage bump to an already highly damaging build.

After we finish off our damage feats (the better to shoot people in the face), we take Alert so that we can shoot people in the face with Fighting Spirit before they get to take a turn, every single combat of the day (since we have at least 1 Fighting Spirit per combat at that point). And we take Fey Touched so that we can shoot people in the face even harder with Hex and give our foe Disadvantage against being grappled/shoved by our teammates (the better to shoot them in the face point blank with triple advantage), and teleport even more often with Misty Step. And we take Skill Expert (Athletics) so that we can use one of our many, many attacks, combined with the Disadvantage to Strength checks provided by Hex, to shove someone prone and then point blank shoot them in the face even when we're not using Fighting Spirit (and also turn that +1 Wis we got from Fey-Touched into an even +2 Wis). Or just help us climb to a nice sniper perch.

___

Variants/Notes:
- You have a lot of leeway to switch up the last three feats. Skill Expert is just one of many possible paths you can take to get Advantage more often, and I would generally switch paths depending on my party's strategy. For example, if they're fond of vision blockers, consider picking up Fighting Initiate (Blind-Fighting) or Devil's Sight (heck, you could even be a Drow or Half-Drow and cast Darkness yourself). And of course familiar help from Ritual Caster works as well as it did for the first Samurai build I posted, and doesn't require you to be anywhere near the fight. Or if your party is just reliably good at triggering Rapid Attack for you, just grab Fey Touched (Gift of Alacrity) and/or Alert immediately. Speaking of which...
- Instead of Hex, you could take Gift of Alacrity with Fey Touched, which is kind of insane since it's practically like giving someone the initiative bonus of Alert for 8 hours. Except... it stacks with Alert. You can take both and waste enemies before they get a turn.
- Skill Expertise could just as easily be Persuasion (the Samurai bonus stacks with Expertise) or Stealth (especially if the rest of the party is also stealthy and/or you want to get Surprise).
- Everything I said about non-Tasha's feat choices in the Kyujutsu Master build still applies.

---

How's that look?

so I've been looking at the Gunner-Rai and I'm sitting here trying so hard to figure out the best order to get the feats in. Gunner at 4 (assuming you can manage to get a Musket by that time), or EA first? and if that's the case, would it be better to do 16 Dex at first, Gunner at 4 for 17, EA at 6 to 18, max at 8, Piercer at next level?

[LudicSavant]

so I've been looking at the Gunner-Rai and I'm sitting here trying so hard to figure out the best order to get the feats in. Gunner at 4 (assuming you can manage to get a Musket by that time), or EA first? and if that's the case, would it be better to do 16 Dex at first, Gunner at 4 for 17, EA at 6 to 18, max at 8, Piercer at next level?

I went SS, then EA, then Gunner, then Piercer. But you could also go Gunner first if you can afford the musket; it'll give you a little higher non-advantage damage but lower advantage damage, and of course will help if your party wants to knock things prone (because you can't take advantage of people being prone unless you have Gunner).

I find it really tough to give up SS, not just for the -5/+10 but also for the ability to ignore cover and range increments.

You should start with 17 Dex so that your 3 half-feats bring you up to 20.

[Jon talks a lot]

I have spent the entire day brewing up a build (I only use the PHB) that is supposed to be a solo game (you and the gm) character. My initial thought was a warlock with darkness/way of shadows monk multiclass to teleport around the battlefield and never get hit. Slowly, it morphed into something else entirely. Since I don't have any party members, I needed healing, damage, and good tactics in order to stay alive, let alone win. So without further ado, I present my build:

Race: Drow (+2 dex, +1 Charisma)
Class(es): Rogue 4, Fighter 6, Monk 6, Paladin 4.
Progression: Rogue 3, Monk 6, Paladin 2, Fighter 6, Paladin 4, Rogue 4.
Point Buy stats: 8 strength, 14 Dex, 12 con, 10 intelligence, 15 wisdom, 13 charisma.
ASI's: Max out dex, then wisdom, +1 charisma.
Subclass: Rogue, Assassin. Fighter, Champion. Monk, Way of the Shadows. Paladin, Oath of Devotion (This can be changed).
AC: 20 (monk feature)
Speed: 45ft (also monk feature)
Weapons:
Rapier, highest damaging Finesse Weapon
Quarterstaff, monk weapon
Light Crossbow, Ranged
Ki: 6
Spells (Paladin): 3 slots, 5 known.
Cure Wounds (healing)
Command (Our only way to control the battlefield)
Protection from Good and Evil (best oath of devotion spell)
Shield of Faith (pre-combat casting for a nice 22 ac is good)
Thunderous Smite (I needed one more spell and I like this more than wrathful smite)

Logic:
The underlying strategy is still leveraging darkness to our advantage. We can do this in two ways. First, the drow magic racial ability gives us one cast of darkness per long rest. Second, way of the shadows monk gives us darkness by spending 2 ki, so an extra 3 casts per long rest. Drow racial ability of Superior dark vision. We can leverage darkness with shadow step, and sneak attack. We essentially get Perma sneak attack on anyone in a 15-foot radius, as well as just having the perks of advantage at all times. The archetype is assassin because surprise can be achieved through darkness (dm fiat) and because it's just better for this strategy. Fighter is here for three major reasons. First, action surge. Second, another extra attack. Third, Champion archetype. A lot of this build revolves around crit fishing for maximum damage, and champion gives improved critical. A common fight scene with this build will be cast darkness for advantage. Sneak attack with monk weapon for 1d6+2d6 and if you crit, which is a 14 or higher with improved critical plus a +5 dexterity modifier, that's double damage, and then you are going to want to add another 2d8 for smite coming out to 2(1d6+2d6+2d8) and 1d4 unarmored strike bonus action with martial arts (monk feature). Then you still have 2 extra attacks AND an action surge if you want to use it. Next, mobility. Our movement speed, because we are unarmored, is 45 feet. We also have cunning action to dash with. AND we have shadow step if there is any more darkness in a dungeon then we get a free teleport as well. In terms of healing, we have very good healing capabilities. There is second wind from fighter. Lay on Hands and Cure Wounds from Paladin. We can also prevent a lot of damage with some key monk abilities. Primarily deflect missiles and slow fall.


Now, is this the best build possible? No, not at all. However, this is very powerful as a do-everything character for either small parties or no party (solo). It wouldn't be good to play this in a larger party (4 or more) because you would be trying to fulfil everyone's role. Additionally, the primary strategy used is not something very compatible with other players unless they also have a way to see through darkness (superior dark vision and devil's sight).

Edit: Can't multi into pali without 13 strength. Here are the new stats in order: 13, 20, 10, 8, 20, 14. Or alternatively, get your dm to handwave that rule.

[Gignere]

I have spent the entire day brewing up a build (I only use the PHB) that is supposed to be a solo game (you and the gm) character. My initial thought was a warlock with darkness/way of shadows monk multiclass to teleport around the battlefield and never get hit. Slowly, it morphed into something else entirely. Since I don't have any party members, I needed healing, damage, and good tactics in order to stay alive, let alone win. So without further ado, I present my build:

Race: Drow (+2 dex, +1 Charisma)
Class(es): Rogue 4, Fighter 6, Monk 6, Paladin 4.
Progression: Rogue 3, Monk 6, Paladin 2, Fighter 6, Paladin 4, Rogue 4.
Point Buy stats: 8 strength, 14 Dex, 12 con, 10 intelligence, 15 wisdom, 13 charisma.
ASI's: Max out dex, then wisdom, +1 charisma.
Subclass: Rogue, Assassin. Fighter, Champion. Monk, Way of the Shadows. Paladin, Oath of Devotion (This can be changed).
AC: 20 (monk feature)
Speed: 45ft (also monk feature)
Weapons:
Rapier, highest damaging Finesse Weapon
Quarterstaff, monk weapon
Light Crossbow, Ranged
Ki: 6
Spells (Paladin): 3 slots, 5 known.
Cure Wounds (healing)
Command (Our only way to control the battlefield)
Protection from Good and Evil (best oath of devotion spell)
Shield of Faith (pre-combat casting for a nice 22 ac is good)
Thunderous Smite (I needed one more spell and I like this more than wrathful smite)

Logic:
The underlying strategy is still leveraging darkness to our advantage. We can do this in two ways. First, the drow magic racial ability gives us one cast of darkness per long rest. Second, way of the shadows monk gives us darkness by spending 2 ki, so an extra 3 casts per long rest. Drow racial ability of Superior dark vision. We can leverage darkness with shadow step, and sneak attack. We essentially get Perma sneak attack on anyone in a 15-foot radius, as well as just having the perks of advantage at all times. The archetype is assassin because surprise can be achieved through darkness (dm fiat) and because it's just better for this strategy. Fighter is here for three major reasons. First, action surge. Second, another extra attack. Third, Champion archetype. A lot of this build revolves around crit fishing for maximum damage, and champion gives improved critical. A common fight scene with this build will be cast darkness for advantage. Sneak attack with monk weapon for 1d6+2d6 and if you crit, which is a 14 or higher with improved critical plus a +5 dexterity modifier, that's double damage, and then you are going to want to add another 2d8 for smite coming out to 2(1d6+2d6+2d8) and 1d4 unarmored strike bonus action with martial arts (monk feature). Then you still have 2 extra attacks AND an action surge if you want to use it. Next, mobility. Our movement speed, because we are unarmored, is 45 feet. We also have cunning action to dash with. AND we have shadow step if there is any more darkness in a dungeon then we get a free teleport as well. In terms of healing, we have very good healing capabilities. There is second wind from fighter. Lay on Hands and Cure Wounds from Paladin. We can also prevent a lot of damage with some key monk abilities. Primarily deflect missiles and slow fall.


Now, is this the best build possible? No, not at all. However, this is very powerful as a do-everything character for either small parties or no party (solo). It wouldn't be good to play this in a larger party (4 or more) because you would be trying to fulfil everyone's role. Additionally, the primary strategy used is not something very compatible with other players unless they also have a way to see through darkness (superior dark vision and devil's sight).

This build isn’t RAW can’t multi into Paladin without minimum 13 strength. If your DM hand waved it good for you, but not RAW.

[Jon talks a lot]

This build isn’t RAW can’t multi into Paladin without minimum 13 strength. If your DM hand waved it good for you, but not RAW.

Thank you, I have reworked it into stats: 13 strength, 20 dex, 10 con, 8 int, 20 wis, 14 charisma.

[Gignere]

Good as dead, I'm afraid.

Well it’s a solo campaign so the DM has to pull his/her punches. Might work in this case having a 10 con. But I wouldn’t recommend for a normal campaign.

[Klorox]

Well it’s a solo campaign so the DM has to pull his/her punches. Might work in this case having a 10 con. But I wouldn’t recommend for a normal campaign.

If the whole campaign is only one character, you can play whatever you want. There is no optimizing needed, because the DM will tailor everything towards you.

[Granitecosmos]

Simic Hybrid gives us:

1. Extra arms (Tentacles!) to grapple up to 2 enemies without using our main hands (so we can still hold shield + sword or two-handed weapon) or up to 4 for maximum CC. We have 2 attacks, we can grapple two enemies into our party Hazard. Next turn you can shove them if you want with your weapon or just keep them there.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but Simic Hybrid specifically calls for an action to grapple with the appendages, unless you use them to attack the regular way, in which case it's essentially Tavern Brawler. Loxodon doesn't have this problem.

[Bloodcloud]

Quick question:

How is this thread not in the notable thread list?

Mods, this seems like an oversight...

[LudicSavant]

Wrote this up real quick in response to a thread asking about making Dexadins.

Paladins who follow the Watchers' oath are ever vigilant in spotting the influence of extraplanar forces, often establishing a network of spies and informants to gather information on suspected cults.

Who says a Paladin is about being a big clanky man who ruins stealth for the party? A Watcher remains hidden in the shadows, ever vigilant for fiends from beyond. And when they appear, their oath demands swift death to evil.

Here we have a Dex-based Paladin that transforms all of their allies into a deadly alpha strike team. A holy ninja strike team leader, if you will.

Fluffwise, I’m imagining something like the Medjai secret society from the Mummy, or a Templar assassin.

Build 16: Swift Death to Evil (Oath of the Watchers Assassin/Spymaster)


Mark of Shadow Elf Watchers Paladin 20
Starting Stats (point buy): 17 Dex / 16 Cha / 14 Con / rest to taste
Fighting Style: Blind-Fighting
ASIs: Revenant Blade, Elven Accuracy, Fey-Touched (Gift of Alacrity), Max Dex, Max Cha. In whatever order.
(Example: Revenant Blade (+1 Dex), Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha), Fey-Touched (+1 Cha), +2 Dex, +2 Cha.
Or if you want to max Dex ASAP: Revenant Blade (+1 Dex) / +2 Dex / Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha) / Fey-Touched (+1 Cha) / +2 Cha)

Mark of Shadow adds all of the following to the Paladin spell list, not a single one of which was already there:

1st disguise self, silent image
2nd darkness, pass without trace
3rd clairvoyance, major image
4th greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
5th mislead

It also adds Minor Illusion at level 1, Invisibility 1/day at level 3, and pseudo-Expertise in Stealth.

Fey-Touched hands us Gift of Alacrity (which gives us a non-Concentration +1d8 to initiative for 8 entire hours). With the free slot and Harness Divine Power we can basically afford to hand out Init bonuses willy-nilly. Oh, and a Misty Step too, always handy for a melee character.

Revenant Blade is kind of like a half-feat version of PAM that lets you be Dex-based, with all the good things that entails.

Elven Accuracy of course goes great with our many ways to get Advantage, and our ability to capitalize on crits with smites.

And all of this combos well together. Frankly all of these things are good enough that I don't care overmuch what order you get them in, other than that I'd probably bump Dex at 4 (since you don't have the aura yet anywho).

A Deadly Alpha Strike for the Whole Party
Few things can actually take 2 rounds of an entire party hitting it before it gets a turn. Plus the opportunity to scout/pre-cast. And that's exactly what you're going to make happen.

Cast Pass Without Trace to make everyone stealthy (you yourself have +21+1d4 stealth). Get surprise, make the whole party win initiative all the time with Gift of Alacrity+Aura of the Sentinel (you yourself have +11+1d8 initiative), and smite things into oblivion before they get a turn, in tandem with your entire team. You are a charismatic strike team leader after all.

And that's just the first trick in your toolkit.

Other Tricks in your Toolkit
For starters...

You've also got the deadly Darkness+Blind Fighting+Elven Accuracy crit-smite-fishing combo in there. As well as the team combos it enables (see the Way of the Demonweb Spider build for more in-depth commentary on Darkness strategies. Additional note for Paladins: your Find Steed can just disengage for free, Dashing at full speed, not getting in the way of anyone)

You also can give yourself triple advantage criftishing and vision denial with Greater Invisibility.

You also wreck just about every kind of save even more than usual for a Paladin, thanks to your high Dex and Watchers abilities. And Counterspell, too.

Your stealthiness actually helps with your Channel Divinity, which is best used as a pre-cast.

Minor Illusion is one of the very few spells without a V component, so you can use it to mess with people or set up the field without revealing yourself.

Disguise Self is a level 1 non-Concentration infiltration tool, and you absolutely have the Charisma for Deception, Persuasion, etc, and the Dexterity for roguish activities. You've also got a free use of Invisibility every day. And a Misty Step. And Nondetection to counter divinations. And Scrying. You're well-equipped to be an infiltrator and spy for the Watchers.

Nondetection counters a number of the things that can normally counter stealthy alpha strike parties, making the Watcher Paladin even more suited for that playstyle.

Clairvoyance (from the Mark of Shadow) can not only scout or spy, but it can combo with Misty Step in order to jump through walls, at a lower level than Dimension Door.

Harness Divine Power variant is great and you should use it. It basically offers a non-situational use for your Channel Divinity.

If you get caught out of range (which should happen rarely, since you have the tools to get the drop on enemies and to move really fast), you can switch to a bow. Or, you can kite non-ranged foes with a bow, using your steed/pegasus.

No multiclassing means you get Find Greater Steed, Improved Divine Smite, fear immunity aura, full ASIs, the big aura, capstone, full Lay on Hands, etc.

As a fun side note, you're just kind of accidentally great at Performance checks (because of 20 Cha + Mark of Shadow), so you can totally pose as a performer for your infiltrations if you feel like it. Take advantage of the fact that you don't need armor or bulky weaponry and just go in as a belly dancer for the doomed sultan.

Consider asking your local mage for Mage Armor once you hit 20 Dex (unless you have magic armor). You can wear medium armor until you get your Dex high enough to switch to light / none.

Variants:
- The GWF fighting style works here too, particularly if your DM rules that it works with smites (contrary to the SAC ruling). Defense fighting style will give you an AC equivalent to wielding a shield.
- Mark of Passage Humans also gets Pass Without Trace on their list.
- Ravnica backgrounds can get you even more spells. It can also be an alternate way to get Pass Without Trace, if you wanna be a different race.
- As mentioned above, you can take the ASIs in just about whatever order you like. You also could go rapier-and-shield or dual-wielding, and swap in something in place of Revenant Blade.
- Rolling for stats can be a big boon for MAD builds, and open up some extra feat slots for you for things like, say, Inspiring Leader, Lucky, Alert, Telepathic, Skill Expert, whatever.