DnD Head Canons

[Wizard_Lizard]

I saw this on reddit but I'm 100% using it now.
(Can't find the link rn)
But Genies reproduces by the process of someone wishing for infinite wishes, causing them to turn into genies, who have infinite wishes that they cannot use on themselves..

[Bohandas]

I saw this on reddit but I'm 100% using it now.
(Can't find the link rn)
But Genies reproduces by the process of someone wishing for infinite wishes, causing them to turn into genies, who have infinite wishes that they cannot use on themselves..

Wasn't that the end of Alladin 2?

[Lord Raziere]

Wasn't that the end of Alladin 2?

No thats the end of Aladdin 1, Aladdin 2's ending was Jafar dying when his lamp was destroyed.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Oh huh. I guess I should rewatch Aladdin it's been so long I don't remember that at all...

[Millstone85]

Oh huh. I guess I should rewatch Aladdin it's been so long I don't remember that at all...

Neither do I. Or well, it is debatable.

Jafar's wishes were:

1. "I wish to rule on high, a sultan!"
2. "I wish to be the most powerful sorcerer, in the world!"
3. "I wish to be an all-powerful genie!"

The last one results in the apparition of cuffs around Jafar's wrists, and of a lamp that sucks him in.

Now, yes, it could be said that Jafar wished for more wishes. Personally, I thought that was already the case with his second wish. But anyway, he explicitly wanted to become a genie.

The surprise was the enslavement. And in Jafar's defense, or Aladdin's charge, why would either of them think that genies begin their existence as slaves?

In the sequel, it is revealed that Genie lost some of his power after being freed. So I suppose it could retroactively be said that an "all-powerful genie" had to be bound to a lamp.

[Spore]

Oh huh. I guess I should rewatch Aladdin it's been so long I don't remember that at all...

Do it. The movie holds up and is in some ways more modern than newer Disney movies. Plus you'll get a few references now that you might have missed.

Now, yes, it could be said that Jafar wished for more wishes. Personally, I thought that was already the case with his second wish. But anyway, he explicitly wanted to become a genie.

We have no frame of reference of what it means to be "the most powerful sorcerer in the world". But I think wish-granting is explicitly exclusive to Genies in this world. Wish as in: reality-altering stuff.

The surprise was the enslavement. And in Jafar's defense, or Aladdin's charge, why would either of them think that genies begin their existence as slaves?

I mean without resorting to actual mythology which makes the whole movies questionable, you have the frame of reference that "djinns are bound". Genie is the djinn's name, but also its status and type of creature. So yes, it would be known that they start as slaves.

In the sequel, it is revealed that Genie lost some of his power after being freed. So I suppose it could retroactively be said that an "all-powerful genie" had to be bound to a lamp.

Mythology rant: Genie is a "djinn" in the widest sense, a less powerful genie, which is an air spirit that protects humans and nature. Jafar is modelled after a more demonic and evil "ifrit", that is actively malicious and wants to destroy humanity, make them suffer and coax them into sinning.

Much of it is doused in real-world religion (genies are proto-religious creatures, which are retroactively used in religious texts) so if you are interested, research on your own, it is pretty interesting.

But Genies reproduces by the process of someone wishing for infinite wishes, causing them to turn into genies, who have infinite wishes that they cannot use on themselves..

An interesting head-canon but I actually feel like it is much nicer to make genies nothing but just "banished" devils. An ifrit would be a banished devil; they are LE, they need to fulfill their contracts, they love fire. They got a bit overzealous, wanting to overthrow the evil establishment with the ultimate power of spells, and they got their wish (heh!). It would be so perfectly on brand for 5e devil lore to create genies that have ultimate power to fulfill the wildest dreams, but cannot use them for themselves.

[Millstone85]

We have no frame of reference of what it means to be "the most powerful sorcerer in the world". But I think wish-granting is explicitly exclusive to Genies in this world. Wish as in: reality-altering stuff.

We know it lets you trap people inside hourglasses, or turn yourself into a giant snake.

And for what it is worth, a deleted song would have confirmed that all "Prince Ali" got was a larger and louder version of Cinderella's carriage and attendants.

Jafar: What were the horses?
Genie: They were roaches.

Jafar: And the camels?
Genie: They were gnats.

Jafar: And the elephant?
Genie: His monkey, and the rest of them were rats.

Jafar: They were rodents?
Genie: Yes, diseased ones.

Jafar: Oh, how very very sad.

If only Genie had pulled the same thing on "Sultan Jafar". Instead of taking over an actual country, let's send you to some remote anthill and fancy it up.

[SpyOne]

The surprise was the enslavement. And in Jafar's defense, or Aladdin's charge, why would either of them think that genies begin their existence as slaves?

Aladdin references right then why he would think that, by paraphrasing something Genie had said to him: It's all part-and-parcel of the whole genie package - phenomenal cosmic power, itty bitty living space.
Genie had told Aladdin that being a genie meant being bound to a lamp, unless someone wished for your freedom.

To Jafar, of course, that came as a complete surprise.

[vasilidor]

Evil gods keep their followers evil by punishing good deeds and commanding evil be done to prove their loyalty.

[Luccan]

Evil gods keep their followers evil by punishing good deeds and commanding evil be done to prove their loyalty.

This is almost explicitly how Maglubiyet works in Volo's (5e). It raises a lot of questions since he apparently smites any goblinoid that steps out of line.

[NovenFromTheSun]

I’m not actually sure if this is just a “head”canon or implied somewhere in the text, but the ring of Sigil is a door with a key somewhere.

[hamishspence]

This is almost explicitly how Maglubiyet works in Volo's (5e). It raises a lot of questions since he apparently smites any goblinoid that steps out of line.

I've been rereading that, and I couldn't find any references to him smiting goblinoids.

The two bugbear deities, yes - but they don't usually have clerics, and that's how their manifest their disapproval, rather than having clerics do it.

[Silly Name]

I've been rereading that, and I couldn't find any references to him smiting goblinoids.

The two bugbear deities, yes - but they don't usually have clerics, and that's how their manifest their disapproval, rather than having clerics do it.

D&D gods usually aren't Discworld gods who go around breaking the windows of atheists. Being directly smote by a deity should require some tremendous act against said deity, such as despoiling their main temple or destroying a relic of theirs... Simply doing something the deity disapproves of in general shouldn't cut it, otherwise Lathander would be able to immediately kill every necromancer in Faerun.

(Showing disapproval with a follower in non-lethal ways is probably more tolerated - sending omens and the like)

[hamishspence]

Yup - when Drizzt saves an elf's life, Lolth doesn't smite him, she has a demon minion warn the house leader that the house is "out of the favour of Lolth" - and lets the house members do all the investigating.

[Millstone85]

I’m not actually sure if this is just a “head”canon or implied somewhere in the text, but the ring of Sigil is a door with a key somewhere.

The Spire is the key. You just need to find how to lower the city a bit.

[vasilidor]

1. the gods are not omniscient in Faerune.
2. the gods also reward behavior they like, see clerics and other divine classes, with power.
3. most of the punishment is dealt with by minions and clerics.

[Silly Name]

1. the gods are not omniscient in Faerune.
2. the gods also reward behavior they like, see clerics and other divine classes, with power.
3. most of the punishment is dealt with by minions and clerics.

I'm pretty sure all of those things are actual canon.

[Luccan]

I've been rereading that, and I couldn't find any references to him smiting goblinoids.

The two bugbear deities, yes - but they don't usually have clerics, and that's how their manifest their disapproval, rather than having clerics do it.

I got them mixed up. I think Volo's tried to make humanoid monsters sympathetic in all the wrong ways and that particular one always stuck out to me as being weirdly PC-hostile for a book that let you actually play one of those creatures

[vasilidor]

I'm pretty sure all of those things are actual canon.

I am aware, but it is an explanation as to why every instance of someone acting good in the Drow homes and amongst goblins is not autopunished by gods who want evil while said gods are trying to make everyone evil.

[Witty Username]

Some Abyss personal lore. Killing a Demon Lord within the Abyss will cause the absorbed world they are within to return to being a material plane. And then they will reform in another area of the Abyss along with any demons that had been killed in the area.

[noob]

Some Abyss personal lore. Killing a Demon Lord within the Abyss will cause the absorbed world they are within to return to being a material plane. And then they will reform in another area of the Abyss along with any demons that had been killed in the area.

So if you kill an infinity of times a specific demon lord you can unabyss the entire abyss?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Killing a Demon Lord within the Abyss will cause the absorbed world they are within to return to being a material plane.

...did 5e retcon Abyssal layers to all be corrupted former Material Plane worlds that were then absorbed into the Abyss, or something like that? Or is "Abyssal layers are absorbed Material worlds" part of the headcanon?

[Millstone85]

...did 5e retcon Abyssal layers to all be corrupted former Material Plane worlds that were then absorbed into the Abyss, or something like that? Or is "Abyssal layers are absorbed Material worlds" part of the headcanon?

Not necessarily all layers, but 5e's description of a typical demonic invasion does end with:

When a demonic incursion runs its course, no vestige remains of the world that existed before--in effect, the realm has become another layer of the Abyss.

[thorr-kan]

Not necessarily all layers, but 5e's description of a typical demonic invasion does end with:

There are also a few references in late 3E material to ongoing demonic invasions to different material planes.

[noob]

how many campaigns are about defeating a demonic invasion?

[Satinavian]

So if you kill an infinity of times a specific demon lord you can unabyss the entire abyss?

Even if that would work, no.

Calculating with infinities is tricky. No matter how many layers you destroy, the number of remaining layers does not change. Also only if the layers are countable you would even arrive at every given layer at a finite time.

[Cicciograna]

Even if that would work, no.

Calculating with infinities is tricky. No matter how many layers you destroy, the number of remaining layers does not change. Also only if the layers are countable you would even arrive at every given layer at a finite time.

New head canon: Abyss layers have cardinality of aleph TWO.
Because CHAOS!

[KillianHawkeye]

how many campaigns are about defeating a demonic invasion?

A theoretically infinite number.

[Witty Username]

...did 5e retcon Abyssal layers to all be corrupted former Material Plane worlds that were then absorbed into the Abyss, or something like that? Or is "Abyssal layers are absorbed Material worlds" part of the headcanon?

I expect the intention is there is a core Abyss and it is surrounded-connected to a vast expanse of conquered worlds.
Because Demon Lords are referred to in the invasion stuff, I figure their domains are mostly worlds conquered over the millennia.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Not necessarily all layers, but 5e's description of a typical demonic invasion does end with:

When a demonic incursion runs its course, no vestige remains of the world that existed before--in effect, the realm has become another layer of the Abyss.

<morbo>Outer Planes do not work that way!</morbo>

There are also a few references in late 3E material to ongoing demonic invasions to different material planes.

I expect the intention is there is a core Abyss and it is surrounded-connected to a vast expanse of conquered worlds.

There's a proud tradition of demons invading various worlds and demon princes trying to conquer worlds for themselves, going all the way back to the Queen of the Demonweb Pits module wherein Lolth's realm had portals to seven different worlds that her forces had conquered or were in the process of conquering. Having lots of portals/breaches/rifts/etc. between certain Abyssal layers and certain Material worlds is totally kosher.

But that's very different from bunches of Material Plane worlds getting yoinked into the Abyss, especially if that's supposed to be a natural consequence of having a critical mass of demons rather than it resulting from a fancy one-off ritual of some sort. Regions shifting between planes due to local philosophical shifts has always been only an Outer Plane thing (layers moving between planes, Outlands gate towns getting absorbed into their connected planes, etc.), and it kinda has to work that way because otherwise it severely undermines the Material Plane's position as a cosmic Switzerland and one would start seeing things like the Blood War spilling out into every Prime world as both sides try to absorb worlds for themselves.

That bit of 5e lore is simply very poorly considered and, appropriately for this thread, should be shot with a headcannon.