Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

[DataNinja]

Clobbopus line for exemple would have being better being part Water type and having the Suction Cup ability.

I mean, plenty of 'mon don't necessarily look like the type they should be. Inkay and Malamar aren't Water. Gligar and Gliscor look like they should probably be poison (and what's with the Ground). Weird typing stuff has always been apart of Pokémon.

[Emmerlaus]

I mean, plenty of 'mon don't necessarily look like the type they should be. Inkay and Malamar aren't Water. Gligar and Gliscor look like they should probably be poison (and what's with the Ground). Weird typing stuff has always been apart of Pokémon.

Yeah but Suction Cup would hav being thematic AND useful for his gimmick!

ALSO, being part Water type would have give him STAB on Dive! Would have being useful in his Occtalock moveset!

[Saambell]

Hummm... I had a idea:

Maybe in stead of making Pokemon game have so much minigames inside (Like making curry, Pokemon Amie, etc), itw ould be interesting if they brought back their Pokemon Stadium games!

Only fighting, minigames, no story or RPG exploration.

They could then focus on making normal Pokemon games worth their prize tag with better graphics, a VR version, pausing the game to take pictures, likable characters. Maybe even experimenting on what they want to expand like better game gimmick then Dynamax. And MAYBE, lets hope, put more Pokemon in the game? XD

Was thinking that seperate the two materials in different games, it would be be interesting...

So, lets get this right.

You want them to charge you full console game AAA game price, for a prettier Pokemon Showdown, a FREE battle simulator? But with none of the dedicated balancing support, banning of overpowered nonsense, or social features that comes with the community of said website? The switch already has a screenshot feature, as well as a past 30 second record feature, with that square button on the bottom left of the system. If you are cutting out the story, and world, what characters do you intend to interact with? A single image that says 2-4 lines before battling in the battle system? The gym system in Stadium was awful compared to the actual games. And if there is no world to explore, where in the non existent world do you imagine you will find Pokemon? The rental system in Stadium was nuts, though intentionally so, as it was their attempt to balance 150 Pokemon so all of them at least had a chance of being picked. Trying to balance 900 Pokemon all having literally a single set, its madness. And yes, I said a SINGLE set as that's how Stadium made lower forms stand out to higher forms by giving lower stated Pokemon better moves. Allowing people to make their own sets, with zero limits on getting Pokemon, would lead to MASSIVE imbalance. And very quickly you would find people using the same set of Pokemon over and over again. And if this is done in an official game, it will have zero of the fandom support Smogon did to at least try to let Pokemon shine by trying to divide up the roster into chunks so that similar powered Pokemon can fight each other and never have to worry about running against something far better then them. And all this, just making a 60$USD worse yet prettier version of something already available for free with massively fewer features to the main games, you then say "lets split it into two with different bits". That's basically impossible without massively gutting an already bare bones game.

Your one good line was "bring back stadium style mini games" and I ask: why not just ask them to put those in an ACTUAL Pokemon game, rather then making them a side game only thing? And this is all ignoring the fact the Stadium games were made by an entirely different company to the main games. You likely also think Pokemon Mystery Dungeon was made by Game Freak, and wasn't made by another company who made a series called Mystery Dungeon and just slapped a Pokemon skin over their existing games. Same thing with Pokemon x Nobunaga's Revenge, I mean Pokemon Conquest. Or the Pokemon Ranger games.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

The ranger games were good though. I think Ranger 2 is still the only game where I actually caught them all. Wild Pokémon roaming the map, your whole party following you around, clever design to mask the grid and make the world look much less gamey and static, great sprites. And yes, the ranger games cut down the dex. But it's not like you could keep any of those mon anyway. If that was just a different game lazily skinned to look like Pokémon, they should do that more often. (This message brought to you by the Pokémon Ranger Appreciation Society.)

[Emmerlaus]

Saambell: Riiiiight, you didn't need to be sarcastic about it. I was asking if it was a good idea. You think its a bad idea, good to know.

I was simply trying to find a way for Game Freak to seperate its content in two seperate games. I was hoping doing so would increase the quality of the game instead of what we received this year. Putting all Pokemons is maybe presomptuous of me, true. But cmon, they put Charizard in there only to attract noobs. I wish they could have given an Arcanine, its available in the game and a cool Pokémon as well. But that's a personnal nitpick. Im just thinking that people will like the game because its Pokemon, no need to try to aim for our nostalgia for their sales to work.

And for your information, I dont even have a Nintendo Switch. I watch gameplays on Youtube mostly. Mostly because I dont have the money to buy games but I still want to see what my favorite franchises are up to.

Lvl 2 Expert: Thank you for remembering me to check what those games are about. I should make a list of what I want to watch during Christmas. I have so much to catch up. Especially since me and my girlfriend got really sick recently.

[LaZodiac]

Ova Giovanni: "Ah, you're that kid who keeps messing up my criminal plans, my nemesis, also you already have 7 badges! Time to get serious, I shall use a whole TWO Pokémon, even less than my game version! And the second of my ultimate team is just the evolution of my first!"

And then ova Giovanni disbanded Team Rocket officially, which would directly derail the plot of later games where Team Rocket's still around, so claiming the ova canon is really questionable at best.

The Pokémon Adventure manga does support the "Gym leaders have multiple teams", with Misty having a Gyarados the first time Ash Red meets her and she's got so many extra Pokémon she later gifts said Gyarados to Red just so he has a sea ride. But the Pokémon Adventures manga is even less cannon that with the Elite Four being eco-terrorrists and stuff.

Still it would be pretty cool a more open-world mainline Pokémon game where you could visit cities in whichever order and Gym leaders would scale accordingly.

Giovanni more or less suffered from "there's too much to cover at once so we need to speed this up". Had to save time for Mega Charizard vs Mewtwo and all that.

And as has been said, Giovanni disbands Rocket in the games and getting senpai to notice them and come back is the entire plot of Team Rocket Neo in Gold/Silver/Crystal.

[DaOldeWolf]

Hummm... I had a idea:

Maybe in stead of making Pokemon game have so much minigames inside (Like making curry, Pokemon Amie, etc), itw ould be interesting if they brought back their Pokemon Stadium games!

Only fighting, minigames, no story or RPG exploration.

They could then focus on making normal Pokemon games worth their prize tag with better graphics, a VR version, pausing the game to take pictures, likable characters. Maybe even experimenting on what they want to expand like better game gimmick then Dynamax. And MAYBE, lets hope, put more Pokemon in the game? XD

Was thinking that seperate the two materials in different games, it would be be interesting...

=======

I really dont like Pokemon Sword and Shield... Great new Pokemon in looks but most of them are half-baked. Clobbopus line for exemple would have being better being part Water type and having the Suction Cup ability. Intellon should have Camouflage or something to justify its a chameleon.... Whats the point in mking Nickit and its evo having a good special attack if almost all of his movepool being PHYSICAL attacks?!

I think thats the biggest crime in those game, at least for me... Making new Pokemon that look awesome, seem like good art and creation concept... and ruin them by bad execution.

I think that would be cool. We havent had a game of such style in ages. A chance to focus and play all available pokemon and maybe have official support from the pokemon company for tournaments.

Its a shame that the servers of Pokemon battle revolution are down. It was really fun online experience. I would also enjoy something pokemon stadium style. A chance to bring back challenging adventures for pokemon veterans while keeping the main line as easier in comparison.

My problem with most pokemon in galar is the huge amount of single type pokemon. From the starters to other pokemon that look like they should have a secondary type. The gimmicks of the new pokemon are quite cool though and I love most of the designs.

[Qwertystop]

Thoughts on the now-recurring Rotom dex:

Make the rotom dex a starter. Second starter is a Porygon dex. Third starter is... a Mimikyu in a Pokedex costume.

[DataNinja]

My problem with most pokemon in galar is the huge amount of single type pokemon.

I personally don't mind that. I know this is probably my delving into fan-things a lot, but it seems a lot of time people insist on trying to make basically everything a dual-type. It's nice to see some single-typers getting some love.

[deuterio12]

Giovanni more or less suffered from "there's too much to cover at once so we need to speed this up". Had to save time for Mega Charizard vs Mewtwo and all that.

They could've shown Giovanni having a full set of 6 balls and then have most of those getting taken out in one frame or just skipping to the end. Most gym leaders in the ova barely got any action.

Or you know, they could've at least made Giovanni use two fully evolved Pokémon.

And as has been said, Giovanni disbands Rocket in the games and getting senpai to notice them and come back is the entire plot of Team Rocket Neo in Gold/Silver/Crystal.

The exact dialogue after beating Giovanni at Viridian is:
"Having lost, I cannot face my underlings!"

That's the whole reason why Team Rocket is still kicking around in Gold/Silver/Crystal. From the grunts perspective, Giovanni just went missing one day. No last orders, certainly not disbanding, just "Hmmm, did anybody see the boss? Ah well let's keep doing Poké-crime!"

None of that "I've rediscovered the joy of Pokémon battling!" from the ova. Giovanni just goes into hiding out of pure shame because after all his "might makes right" speeches he kept being beaten by this 10 year old kid.

If game Giovanni had officially disbanded Team Rocket, an official statement of "I'm done with this", then the grunts would've gone and find new lines of work instead of going "Boss where are you?".

Also Merry Christmas everybody!

[LaZodiac]

The exact dialogue after beating Giovanni at Viridian is:
"Having lost, I cannot face my underlings!"

That's the whole reason why Team Rocket is still kicking around in Gold/Silver/Crystal. From the grunts perspective, Giovanni just went missing one day. No last orders, certainly not disbanding, just "Hmmm, did anybody see the boss? Ah well let's keep doing Poké-crime!"

None of that "I've rediscovered the joy of Pokémon battling!" from the ova. Giovanni just goes into hiding out of pure shame because after all his "might makes right" speeches he kept being beaten by this 10 year old kid.

If game Giovanni had officially disbanded Team Rocket, an official statement of "I'm done with this", then the grunts would've gone and find new lines of work instead of going "Boss where are you?".

Also Merry Christmas everybody!

You're really going to say "the exact dialogue" and not quote the whole line?

"Having lost, I cannot face my underlings! Team Rocket is finished forever! I will dedicate my life to the study of Pokémon! Let us meet again some day"

This is definitively a Gameboy era translation of what we see in the Pokemon OVA.

Additionally, in Gold and Silver...

Admin Archer: "Oh? You managed to get this far? You must be quite the trainer. We intend to take over this Radio Station and announce our comeback. That should bring our boss Giovanni back from his solo training. We are going to regain our former glory. I won't allow you to interfere with our plans." and after you defeat him: "How could this be? Our dreams have come to naught. I wasn't up to the task after all. Like Giovanni did before me, I will disband Team Rocket here today. Farewell."

I'm sorry dude but you're Just Wrong.

[Spore]

Spoiler: SwSh spoiler regarding the villain

Show

Does anyone else feel the "villain arc" is way too rushed and likely the one thing they were not able to finish?

The whole Rose tower looks and feels like something out of an early beta build. The choice to leave the top completely featureless is odd as well. I get that it is supposed to be a viewing platform for the public (I assume even though it features a power spot and thus would be a gigantic safety hazard but what isn't in this world of replacing stairs with a giant gear). But it's completely barren and symmetric.

And the whole "find Leon" arc is pointless, it is even bad as a fake out since Hop (as the protagonist's voice) has every reason to lay it into his brother and his boss. You made him wait for several hours, be worried sick and why? Because you had a little chat. In a world with Rotomphones and Holo Casters this is unacceptable. Yeah Rose could have prevented Leon to use his phone. But the argument would have still been taking place.

Then you get interrupted yet again to go to the power plant. There suddenly Rose is hostile even though he clearly realized he is up in over his head. His damn project exploded around him and he is like: "I will stop you even though you most likely want to help me and the Galar region, the two things I care about the most." The whole thing does not make a lick of sense.

The rest of the games is mostly good (with the exception of a good chunk of very trash animations), but this is infuriating.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: SwSh spoiler regarding the villain

Show

Does anyone else feel the "villain arc" is way too rushed and likely the one thing they were not able to finish?

The whole Rose tower looks and feels like something out of an early beta build. The choice to leave the top completely featureless is odd as well. I get that it is supposed to be a viewing platform for the public (I assume even though it features a power spot and thus would be a gigantic safety hazard but what isn't in this world of replacing stairs with a giant gear). But it's completely barren and symmetric.

And the whole "find Leon" arc is pointless, it is even bad as a fake out since Hop (as the protagonist's voice) has every reason to lay it into his brother and his boss. You made him wait for several hours, be worried sick and why? Because you had a little chat. In a world with Rotomphones and Holo Casters this is unacceptable. Yeah Rose could have prevented Leon to use his phone. But the argument would have still been taking place.

Then you get interrupted yet again to go to the power plant. There suddenly Rose is hostile even though he clearly realized he is up in over his head. His damn project exploded around him and he is like: "I will stop you even though you most likely want to help me and the Galar region, the two things I care about the most." The whole thing does not make a lick of sense.

The rest of the games is mostly good (with the exception of a good chunk of very trash animations), but this is infuriating.

Spoiler

Show

I always figured the reason why he fights you is to see if you're capable of beating Eternatus. If you can beat his team, you're good to go. It really mostly seems to me like Rose is an idiot and not actually villainous in any way at all.

Also I believe they did say they tried to phone Leon and he didn't answer.

[DaOldeWolf]

I personally don't mind that. I know this is probably my delving into fan-things a lot, but it seems a lot of time people insist on trying to make basically everything a dual-type. It's nice to see some single-typers getting some love.

I understand your point.

My issue with single typed pokemon is that there are lots of them which means that there is a chance that there is a better option out there. Dual types come with the advantages of better coverage (single typed pokemon usually have a shallow movepool), dual STAB, possibility for more and better resistances and usually less competition.

[DataNinja]

I understand your point.

My issue with single typed pokemon is that there are lots of them which means that there is a chance that there is a better option out there. Dual types come with the advantages of better coverage (single typed pokemon usually have a shallow movepool), dual STAB, possibility for more and better resistances and usually less competition.

That's fair - I don't really do that much with regard to competitive, so I can usually get by with 'passable'.

[Qwertystop]

Hm. What if single-types counted as double-types where both types are the same? Double STAB (total x2.25), double weaknesses and resistances. Would that provide a niche, or just be terrible?

[DeTess]

Hm. What if single-types counted as double-types where both types are the same? Double STAB (total x2.25), double weaknesses and resistances. Would that provide a niche, or just be terrible?

Double weaknesses would be fairly bad, but a small increase to STAB might be interesting. That way, dual types get versatility, while single-type get more power in their smaller niche.

[Aotrs Commander]

Oh my Lichemaster ahahahahahahaha!

I, just out of interest, attempted to listen to what the SwSH gym theme was like and only then realised THAT is what is the music for Jim Sterling's Bethesda is Bethetic dance!

I am NEVER going to be able to listen to that without seeing that dance now!

Oh deary me...

[Spore]

Hm. What if single-types counted as double-types where both types are the same? Double STAB (total x2.25), double weaknesses and resistances. Would that provide a niche, or just be terrible?

Would make the game WAY too swingy. Imagine a mere Lightball Pikachu using Thunderbolt on a weak pokemon. 4,5x damage. You'd be required to carry resistances or immunities to every type. If you do, you're great. If you don't, well sucks to be you.

It would take out a lot of nuance.

Spoiler

Show

I always figured the reason why he fights you is to see if you're capable of beating Eternatus. If you can beat his team, you're good to go. It really mostly seems to me like Rose is an idiot and not actually villainous in any way at all.

Also I believe they did say they tried to phone Leon and he didn't answer.

Spoiler: Villain

Show

This doesn't add up, since his team is all steel types and you don't dynamax on top of the tower, rendering Eternatus' only viable move being Flamethrower. Of course this is metagaming but I can't see why a well-placed Earthquake/High Horsepower won't finish the job.

Yes, you are forced into action by being the protagonist with the Broken Sword item. But you could very well just hand it over to Rose, and watch Eternatus squirm to deal with his steel types. You are not even dealing with Eternatus yourself (at least my team didn't) as my dragon counter was weak to poison, but you're just watching the dogs do their thing.

Spoiler: Legendaries

Show

Also isn't it kinda ironic that Galar's legendaries are unable to dynamax? This kinda emphasizes the old trope (if it is one) that if a regular dude (in armor) is presented as a boss, you better quiver in your boots when your protagonist slew titanic beasts before.

I am NEVER going to be able to listen to that without seeing that dance now!

Well, thanks for ruining that for us I guess?

[Xondoure]

Do people still trade around these parts? I'm looking for HA magikarp, and discord seems uninterested unless you have tons of other ha pokemon or shinies. I don't have too much but I do have HA mareanie and some 0spd ferroseeds with decent ivs. Willing to discuss other trades as well!

[Spore]

Do people still trade around these parts? I'm looking for HA magikarp, and discord seems uninterested unless you have tons of other ha pokemon or shinies. I don't have too much but I do have HA mareanie and some 0spd ferroseeds with decent ivs. Willing to discuss other trades as well!

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around trading and actual competitive training but it is quite hard to get a step inside without having a very decent knowledge of the game. Any guides to point me into the right direction?

I know natures, vaguely know what IVs are (is comp. battling possible without perfect 6s?), I know EVs (even tho they apparently axed super training so idk where to do it) and I have yet to discover how to access hidden abilities, how to breed (effectively) and where the damn dittos are.

[Bartmanhomer]

If they going to have Pokemon Sword And Shield 2 then put all the Pokemon in the game not 400 pokemon.

[Qwertystop]

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around trading and actual competitive training but it is quite hard to get a step inside without having a very decent knowledge of the game. Any guides to point me into the right direction?

I know natures, vaguely know what IVs are (is comp. battling possible without perfect 6s?), I know EVs (even tho they apparently axed super training so idk where to do it) and I have yet to discover how to access hidden abilities, how to breed (effectively) and where the damn dittos are.

IVs make a much smaller difference than EVs, and also I think Sword and Shield have ways to boost them for stat purposes (Sun and Moon did, with bottle caps). EVs are gained from every battle; even if a particular game offers no minigame to grind them up, that just means you need to find a route with wilds that give you the stats you want and grind for a while. Hidden Abilities are usually exclusive to mons caught in specific areas, or inherited from them (specifically through the mother, unless a Ditto was the mother, in which case the father can pass their HA down). Breeding: There's a bunch of hold items that affect inherited stats (Power items guarantee a particular stat, Destiny Knot means five stats are inherited instead of three) and nature (Everstone means that parent's nature will be inherited).

[OracleofWuffing]

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around trading and actual competitive training but it is quite hard to get a step inside without having a very decent knowledge of the game. Any guides to point me into the right direction?

Smogon is, broadly speaking, the forefront of competitive battling knowledge. If you want to learn things, it's probably best to start browsing around their forums, as they're rolling out Sword and Shield information on the site proper. There's a Battling 101 section that's supposed to have veterans tutoring new people, so maybe keep an eye out for news on that front. I usually end up having Bulbapedia or Serebii on another window just because I like how their information is organized better when I look things up, too.

I know natures, vaguely know what IVs are (is comp. battling possible without perfect 6s?), I know EVs (even tho they apparently axed super training so idk where to do it) and I have yet to discover how to access hidden abilities, how to breed (effectively) and where the damn dittos are.

Okay, pulling out a random example, let's look at Sirfetch'd. He's got a base 135 attack, and a base 68 special attack. In short, if it wants to execute any Special Attacks, they have to be twice as strong as a corresponding Physical Attack to do roughly the same amount of damage. So, generally speaking, it doesn't matter what its Special Attack stat is, because it is not going to use any Special Attacks, so it's okay to ignore that IV.

Now, if you had a team that involved setting up Trick Room, you want your pokemons' speed stats to be low, so they are in effect faster. So you could ditch an additional IV. Again, this is a generalization. Technically, it means that the "Perfect" IV for those stats is 0 and just re-creates the problem of breeding for perfect stats, but close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades.

Poke Jobs are the equivalent to Super Training, specifically the ones in Hammerlocke University (bottom of the page). Pokemon earn 4 EVs for every hour on the job, and gain the bonus EVs from PokeRus and/or holding Power Items.

Sword and Shield Hidden Abilities may randomly be obtained in Max Raid Battles, which also have higher chances of starting with one or more perfect IVs.

Dittos can be found normally in the Lake of Outrage and in the Stony Wilderness as a Max Raid.

Edit: Almost forgot. The guy that will "Hyper Train" your pokemon (Make a level 100 pokemon with maxed out EVs have effectively 31 IVs for the purposes of stat calculation) in Sword and Shield is in the Battle Tower. The currency is still Bottle Caps and Gold Bottle Caps.

[Spore]

So they ditched Super Training in favor of what is essentially "follower quests" pulled straight from Facebook games and/or WoW? Well, ugh =/ Looks like a nice thing for MASSIVE competitive players (who sent squads of 'mons to train) but for me who wants maybe one or two nice teams to dabble, oh well, it is just 32 hours to get a max EV.

Does this system get rid of "unwanted" EVs? Or am I better off pullling a team together of newly bred 'mons?

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

There are berries that, when used on a Pokemon, drops a particular EV by 10 in exchange for making the Pokemon friendlier.

And once you send a squad (or a single mon) out on a training seminar job, you can change your Switch's date and time to pop them right back. Apparently the date/time setting exploits for this game are just broken.

[Qwertystop]

So they ditched Super Training in favor of what is essentially "follower quests" pulled straight from Facebook games and/or WoW? Well, ugh =/ Looks like a nice thing for MASSIVE competitive players (who sent squads of 'mons to train) but for me who wants maybe one or two nice teams to dabble, oh well, it is just 32 hours to get a max EV.

Does this system get rid of "unwanted" EVs? Or am I better off pullling a team together of newly bred 'mons?

They ditched Super Training one generation after they added it; Sun and Moon had Poke Pelago, which does basically the same thing as jobs far as EVs go (but gaining levels was separate from finding items).

If you're doing one team's worth, you can still grind out the EVs in battles the same as before X and Y, and probably be done faster than Super Training One round of the level-3 minigame or one heavy punching bag gives +12 to a stat and takes a minute or two per round; one wild battle with an appropriate Power item gives +9 (+18 with Pokerus) (+10/+20 if the wild mon gives 2 instead of 1) to your whole party while also giving XP. EV gains don't scale significantly with level, so you can just churn through early-route low-level common stuff or whatever gives the stat you want. Turn off battle animations, a battle a minute feels reasonable, 28 battles to max a stat without Pokerus, you can batch all your repeat stats so you need at most six rounds, you should be able to get a team done within a two to four hours. Pretty sure Super Training is slower; the advantage there is mostly not needing to pay attention to running from the wrong wilds, but the minigame requires more attention to aiming, is especially slower when your mons have low stats at the start of the process, and you need to go through each mon individually. I only really bothered with it for the item rewards and completionism.

Oh, and if you have surplus funds, vitamins give +10 a pop even faster than battles, up to +100 total, so that cuts out 11 battles per stat if you have enough for all the mons you're training in that stat. Wings give +1 with no cap, but they're probably not worth bothering with IMO.

[Saambell]

In XY/ORAS Horde Battles were the vastly better way to get EVs. Teddiursa was literally the best mon for training. Sweet Scent, Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Brick Break with the ability Pick Up. In ORAS certain routes had a single Horde that only gave one kind of EV.

In SwSh, Vitamins have no limit anymore. You can go from 0 to 250 with 25 vitamins of a kind, then its just 2 wings or a few battles.

[Ortho]

Okay, pulling out a random example, let's look at Sirfetch'd. He's got a base 135 attack, and a base 68 special attack. In short, if it wants to execute any Special Attacks, they have to be twice as strong as a corresponding Physical Attack to do roughly the same amount of damage. So, generally speaking, it doesn't matter what its Special Attack stat is, because it is not going to use any Special Attacks, so it's okay to ignore that IV.

Tangentially related to this, I've got a noob question: How can I tell whether a move uses the Special Attack stat or the Attack stat? I'm playing Shield right now, and if there's a resource that tells me this, I can't find it.

[Ogremindes]

Tangentially related to this, I've got a noob question: How can I tell whether a move uses the Special Attack stat or the Attack stat? I'm playing Shield right now, and if there's a resource that tells me this, I can't find it.

When you look at move details it will have a symbol: A starburst symbol is physical, concentric rings is special, and the sort of yin-yang symbol is for status moves.