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  1. - Top - End - #1351
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Don't forget that in Sun and Moon there are the following NPCs...

    Woman and Machamp who's husband and owner died in a car crash, and Machamp only survived due to being put into his pokeball at the last minute. She is being carried by Machamp, implying she is paralyzed.

    The multiple people in graveyards that are explicitly there for humans who were buried.

    The retired Eevee master who, due to age and mortgage, is forced to work a ****ty part time job and give up on his dream, and thus hires you out as a hitman to fight and beat all his old rivals, all of whom are in various thematic states of decay. Jolteon's owner has gone senile, Umbreon's owner is well aware that he will die soon, Flareon's owner no longer has passion for life, Leafeon's owner is desperately trying to keep herself beautiful on the inside even though her insides are rotting by her own words, the Sylveon owner IS ****ING DEAD.

    There is plenty of darkness in these games you just have to look at it for half a second.

  2. - Top - End - #1352
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    For dark, Primeape's Sun Pokedex entry: "It has been known to become so angry that it dies as a result. Its face looks peaceful in death, however."
    So angry that it dies. Or Moon mentioning that even in it's Pokeball, it remains in a state of constant rage. So theoretically, at some point, a trainer could send out a Primeape and it's just...dead.
    Once you go blue, nothing else will do. Once you go Quarian...someone will die.

  3. - Top - End - #1353
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    There's a reason why the various nurses always happily say they hope to see you again.
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  4. - Top - End - #1354
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Well yeah, your all correct about those being dark things.

    but calling pokemon dark because of those parts is a bit like calling a day in the middle of summer a form of "night" just because it has a shady tree. sure its less bright because of it, but its not exactly something that sets the overall atmosphere because your still enjoying a sunny day outside with your excitable dog. especially if they are presented in ways that you need to think about it to really get how dark it is? you can pull darkness out of a lot of things if look hard enough because focusing on that is more of a mindset than anything else.

    when really when pokemon as presented in its full context? shows a world of people working together in peace and having a good time with war being seemingly a thing of the past and the only strife coming from stupid criminal gangs with weird goals, with most people having nothing better to do than to compete in various pokemon competitions, and the pokemon being completely okay with this for the most part and living and cooperating with humanity in harmony. which still hasn't changed since Gen 1. so personally I wouldn't miss the sunny day for looking at the shady trees.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    I suddenly remember a theory that the pokedex entries themselves are like Ripley's facts in order to encourage users (Children) to collect more while it really harvest complex biometric and genetic information. As such, they really shouldn't be trusted.

    Oh, and I think the original super-dark theory was that Gary's Raticate died as a result of the SS Anne battle.

    Edit - In response to Razier, I think if there is an actual thematic, consistent darkness is that for all of the things that give people hope and a reason to live there is a dark shadow. It shows up in Magma and Aqua wanting to ensure the resources for future generations to live to the pursuit of knowledge itself creating existential threats in X and Y.
    Last edited by MCerberus; 2020-05-18 at 11:38 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #1356
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    That one doesn't really hold up since he uses it in a later fight.

    Blue didn't use it in the tower battle so people jumped on it withoutpaying attention.

    Either it was an oversite that left it out of that fight or, since it's a normal, he was keeping it in reserve for the many hostile ghost types in the Tower.
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    Meteor
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  7. - Top - End - #1357
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    I suddenly remember a theory that the pokedex entries themselves are like Ripley's facts in order to encourage users (Children) to collect more while it really harvest complex biometric and genetic information. As such, they really shouldn't be trusted.
    Personally I find it much easier to assume that the Pokédex is just exactly what the professor says, an empty encyclopedia in which you, a ten year old, record information about your catches.

    Pokédex entries are written by a kid who just got a new pet and thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread.

    The device pre-filled with information on every species feels very much like an anime inventions, and even there I'd argue that it probably just spits out the information that the video game kid wrote down, because that's how professors roll.

    Oh, and I think the original super-dark theory was that Gary's Raticate died as a result of the SS Anne battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That one doesn't really hold up since he uses it in a later fight.
    No he does not. He also says to Red: "Your Pokémon don't look dead! I can at least make them faint!". This could mean a lot of things, but one of those things is this theory.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Okay, I was wrong on that.

    But consider that you can visit Lavender Town without battling him on the Saint Anne and he's still down a Raticate, under no circumstances is the battle on the Saint Anne the reason why he doesn't have it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Okay, I was wrong on that.

    But consider that you can visit Lavender Town without battling him on the Saint Anne and he's still down a Raticate, under no circumstances is the battle on the Saint Anne the reason why he doesn't have it.
    You have to fight him to get to Lavender Town as its blocked off by a cut tree and you have to fight him to get cut.

  10. - Top - End - #1360
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    You have to fight him to get to Lavender Town as its blocked off by a cut tree and you have to fight him to get cut.
    The remake gives you cut at a different point: You can skip the saint Anne battle entirely but he's still missing his raticate.

    People just want to latch onto the idea that red and/or his Pokemon were too brutal and beat poor raticate to death when there's a better explanation.

    Maybe he traded the Raticate for his Execute or Gyarados? There's NPCs who make stupid trades like that in the games.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2020-05-19 at 02:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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    Where my other
    Rocks
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  11. - Top - End - #1361
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Or the Raticate did in fact die, but not because of you? It's a graveyard. The game's not exactly subtle about that fact, doesn't pretend that dying doesn't happen.
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  12. - Top - End - #1362
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Or the Raticate did in fact die, but not because of you? It's a graveyard. The game's not exactly subtle about that fact, doesn't pretend that dying doesn't happen.
    Blue is also explicitly there to catch Pokemon, not to mourn.

    He leaves becuase he couldn't find the Marrowhack people were talking about.

    He also claims to have caught over 50 Pokemon, so if he didn't trade it for his Gyarados(which 'illegal' moves when you first encounter it, so he probably didn't raise it himself) then he probably dropped it in a box once it wasn't useful to him anymore.

    People jump on the "Raticate Died" there when there are better explanations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  13. - Top - End - #1363
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    People jump on the "Raticate Died" there when there are better explanations.
    But no cooler explanations.

    The Raticate died theory suggests that there is a story element that was either cleverly half hidden by the authors or even came into existence entirely on accident. It makes the world of the game a richer (if sadder/darker) place while tying together several setting elements, being your almost hostile rivalry with blue, your repeated battles, the theme of the Pokémon Tower level, the text of the game and probably a few more things. It's a cool idea, and while the evidence for it is far from conclusive so is the evidence against it. For instance: in the runs where you skip the Anne battle maybe you already killed his Rattata in the match before that? Sure, it doesn't make sense from an out of game viewpoint, we know you could have chosen to not skip the battle, so between the two battles, was his Rattata/Raticate both alive and dead at the same time, only choosing a state ones you decided to skip or not? But from the view inside a single run through the story is consistent. (Or we could just say remakes don't count, because there are plenty of remakes that slaughter all the cool bits of the original.) So as head canon: why not?
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  14. - Top - End - #1364
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Because there is literally zero evidence for it.

    "Raticate is missing when Blue shows up in the Tower, ergo Raticate must be dead" is a dumb they considering that he was trying(and failing) to catch a Marrowhack in the tower and that we know for a fact that he doesn't use all of th Pokemon he has and has access to a storage box in the PCs.

    There's also the simple fact that literally no Pokemon ever die in battle anywhere else in the series and there's nothing differant about any of Red's batles with Blue.

    It's a fanon hat exists solely to make Red less perfect, Blue(the guy who was willing to let terrorists control Saffron city when he could have saved the day just to fight you) more sympathetic, or make the game darker than it already is.

    You're attaching unrelated phenomena together to create a story that doesn't exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  15. - Top - End - #1365
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's a fanon hat exists solely to make Red less perfect, Blue(the guy who was willing to let terrorists control Saffron city when he could have saved the day just to fight you) more sympathetic, or make the game darker than it already is.
    I thought the theory existed in an elaborate ploy to trick others into doing something silly to try to get a Mew, as the other 98% of fan theories during gen 1 were.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    If you want dark Pokemon, I think Pokemon Adventure is darker than the games depict, and it's pretty serious and pretty interesting if you like that kind of thing.

    Also, N's story is pretty dark when you understand that Ghestis was manipulating him the entire time. And now that I think about it, Lysandre wants kill all people because he thinks they messed up the world and don't deserve it.
    Last edited by tgva8889; 2020-05-19 at 11:51 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #1367
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    It's... quite an about-face. In gen 6, Mega Evolution was all about bonds and friendship and stuff. Then the gen 7 stuff? Welp. Here's what the 'Dex says (they didn't have 'Dex things in 6):

    Mega Salamence: "The stress of its two proud wings becoming misshapen and stuck together because of strong energy makes it go on a rampage. "

    Mega Aerodactyl: "When it Mega Evolves, it becomes more vicious than ever before. Some say that's because its excess of power is causing it pain."

    Which... I hate, because there was zero anything like that, and it was all about, yes, you have a special bond with your 'mon.
    Oh, that's really sad. Damn.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Don't forget that in Sun and Moon there are the following NPCs...

    Woman and Machamp who's husband and owner died in a car crash, and Machamp only survived due to being put into his pokeball at the last minute. She is being carried by Machamp, implying she is paralyzed.

    The multiple people in graveyards that are explicitly there for humans who were buried.

    The retired Eevee master who, due to age and mortgage, is forced to work a ****ty part time job and give up on his dream, and thus hires you out as a hitman to fight and beat all his old rivals, all of whom are in various thematic states of decay. Jolteon's owner has gone senile, Umbreon's owner is well aware that he will die soon, Flareon's owner no longer has passion for life, Leafeon's owner is desperately trying to keep herself beautiful on the inside even though her insides are rotting by her own words, the Sylveon owner IS ****ING DEAD.

    There is plenty of darkness in these games you just have to look at it for half a second.
    That, uh, that Eevee master sidequest...
    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    If you want dark Pokemon, I think Pokemon Adventure is darker than the games depict, and it's pretty serious and pretty interesting if you like that kind of thing.

    Also, N's story is pretty dark when you understand that Ghestis was manipulating him the entire time. And now that I think about it, Lysandre wants kill all people because he thinks they messed up the world and don't deserve it.
    Oh, yeah, I used to read it way back. I remember liking it.

  18. - Top - End - #1368
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    The Eevee master quest had me screaming because I was detailing it to my friends as I went and I made a joke about how "oh I bet one of them is going to be dead hah this is getting a little dark" because I ended up hitting them in order from zero to ****ing a thousand.

  19. - Top - End - #1369
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Sun and Moon also has Team Skull basically being full of homeless and depressed failed trainers and island challengers. Po Town is a wreck with no power covered in graffiti and no adults.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    I guess since we're listing all the incidental patches of darkness in an otherwise bright an idealistic setting now, here is one from Ultramoon/Sun:
    the Dittos actually take the form of humans and try to live as them. like there is a ditto you encounter that took the form of a police officer and you have to fight it to make sure it stops. the Ditto meme of replacing people with themselves has some truth to it now.
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  21. - Top - End - #1371
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bashhammer View Post
    Sun and Moon also has Team Skull basically being full of homeless and depressed failed trainers and island challengers. Po Town is a wreck with no power covered in graffiti and no adults.
    Yeah and don't forget the, intentional or not, subtle implication that Guzma's dad used to beat him and Guzma one day snapped and beat him back and ran off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I guess since we're listing all the incidental patches of darkness in an otherwise bright an idealistic setting now, here is one from Ultramoon/Sun:
    the Dittos actually take the form of humans and try to live as them. like there is a ditto you encounter that took the form of a police officer and you have to fight it to make sure it stops. the Ditto meme of replacing people with themselves has some truth to it now.
    God that was unsettling.

  22. - Top - End - #1372
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    And lets also mention Lusamine in Sun and Moon (but not the ultra versions) being an abusive egotistical drug addicted mother who neglected her kids and drove them away due to her obsession with Nihilego. To the point she even dressed Lillie as close to Nihilego as she could and even then could barely stand her. I feel she was the best villain of the franchise due to how realistic and down to earth she was, if being addicted to Space Jellyfish Venom wasn't really out there. But substitute that for any kind of real world substance abuse and you have a villain who is the closest to something anyone could experience. Some prefer Ghetis or Cyrus who have more grand plans with more impact, but there's something about Lusamine simply being an abusive mother with an addiction that makes her stand out to me.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Lusamine was scary.
    I mean, there's been a few nutcases among the villains, but most of them are of the "reshape and/or conquer the world" brand. I can deal with that, we all have moments like that after all.

    Lusamine though?
    Yeah no. Thanks.
    Too realistic maybe, ignoring the part with the transdimensional alien poison.

    Though even before the reveal she disturbed me more than the other villains.
    Sure, Team Aqua/Magma's plans were apocalyptically bad ideas, Cyrus seriously needed a hug and Lysander was mayhaps a tad extreme in his endgame, but neither of them had those Joker-grade crazy looks.

    By the way, worst part of USUM? Not that they altered the story, but that they basically chopped the original story in pieces and then frankenstein'ed the new parts together like the fossil lady in Galar.
    They kept all of Lusamine's crazy- the Smilex-grins, her rants about her kids and the MC, her friggin collection...
    And then? Nope, she was the good guy all along.
    It just doesn't work.
    Like the Galar-fossils.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Yeah and don't forget the, intentional or not, subtle implication that Guzma's dad used to beat him and Guzma one day snapped and beat him back and ran off.
    I hadn't even realized that until TFS did their Moon nuzlocke. One of those rare times one of their incredibly dark jokes was true, or at least had some basis in truth.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Magikarp is an Uber Sweeper. Magikarp can beat every Pokemon plus Magikarp is my favourite Pokemon.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Hey guys. I need to make some new friends in pokemon go for a new quest. Anyone here still playing pokemon go?

    My friend code is: 5119 4114 0724
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Hey guys. I need to make some new friends in pokemon go for a new quest. Anyone here still playing pokemon go?

    My friend code is: 5119 4114 0724
    Request sent. Maybe I can finally complete the Celebii and Jirachi quests.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Hey guys. I need to make some new friends in pokemon go for a new quest. Anyone here still playing pokemon go?

    My friend code is: 5119 4114 0724
    Also sent.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Hey guys. I need to make some new friends in pokemon go for a new quest. Anyone here still playing pokemon go?

    My friend code is: 5119 4114 0724
    Already friend-ed. :)

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    TRIVIA: Despite its Gen-3 description and its Gen-3 and Gen-4 animations, Water Pulse has never been sound-based.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.

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